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Veteran's Day Thoughts from a Vet

Discussion in 'Military' started by Mark Corbett, Nov 9, 2017.

  1. SteveIndy

    SteveIndy Active Member Supporter

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    Mark, You have just given the Gospel of men which is no Gospel at all. Where in Christ's Gospel is it stated that we are to be freed from being attacked from others, as a matter of fact, Paul tells Timothy just the opposite, he says, "If you live righteously you WILL be persecuted." And, Christ Himself says, "If they hated the Master they will hate the student." We have no mandate from Christ to change the world but to only preach the Gospel of "real" peace and that because of that we will be rejected by the world. Keep in mind that Roam wanted to release Jesus but it was the religion of that time that demanded that Jesus be crucified. Today it will be no different, the Church will demand that Christians who preach the real Gospel of loving your enemy, turning the other cheek, laying aside carnal weapons, not resisting the evil person, feeding and clothing your enemy, and other similar verses be stopped or killed. And, in that great last war in that big valley in Israel, there will be gathered so-called Christians, along with the world, to do battle with the returning Christ. Doesn't that thought bother you just a little bit? Christ has stated His will and it is not those who read, speak, or talk about that will that are the children of God but rather those who DO the will of the Father. "Be not hearers of the word only but doers of the word. Christ, when He disarmed Peter in the garden disarmed every Christian. This is so easy to understand but virtually no one is obeying it. This too signifies those who travel in the broad-way of the world and refuse to walk in that narrow way.
     
  2. Mark Corbett

    Mark Corbett Well-Known Member Supporter

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    Steve, I feel that you interpret my words in ways which are very ungraceful, assuming the worst possible interpretation. In your zeal, please be careful how you judge others, it is a very dangerous endeavor.

    I completely agree that we will be persecuted and suffer in this world. I have probably seen more strong examples of Christians suffering for their faith up close than most who read this forum. I was blessed with the privilege of living in a Muslim majority nation for 14 years. One reason I say I was "blessed" is because I worked alongside many courageous believers who suffered for their faith. I knew Christians who had been beaten, loss jobs, constantly threatened, harassed by authorities, and falsely slandered in the press specifically for their faith. In the city where we lived, many times radical Islamic groups carried out "sweeping" where they set up road blocks and searched vehicles for Christians, severely beating any they found. Hundreds of Christians were martyred on the island we lived on during the years we were there and church buildings were burned down. In all of this, I served alongside Christians who not only stayed true to their faith, but some of them continued to reach out in acts of love and gentle sharing of truth to their Muslim neighbors.

    Realizing that we will suffer for our faith does not mean we should not prayerfully seek deliverance from such suffering for ourselves and others when we can do so without compromise. When Paul asked for prayer for the spread of the gospel he ALSO asked for deliverance from evil men:

    NIV 2 Thessalonians 3:1-2 As for other matters, brothers and sisters, pray for us that the message of the Lord may spread rapidly and be honored, just as it was with you.
    And pray that we may be delivered from wicked and evil people, for not everyone has faith.


    A similar prayer request is found here:

    NIV Romans 15:31 Pray that I may be kept safe from the unbelievers in Judea and that the contribution I take to Jerusalem may be favorably received by the Lord's people there,

    Perhaps it was an answer to such prayer requests when on one occasion God providentially arranged for a military escort to guard and protect Paul from a plot to take his life. Paul specifically reached out for such help from the military (see Acts 23:12ff).

    It's not inconsistent to understand that we will be persecuted in this world and at the same time to pray for deliverance from evil people and specific acts of persecution and even to seek the help of government military/police forces to protect us. It is not inconsistent at all, it is specifically Biblical.

    You imply that Christians who believe it is right (at least sometimes) to serve in the military or police do not also preach and practice loving our enemies, turning the other cheek, and suffering for the gospel. That implication is wrong.

    When people disagree with us on a point of doctrine, it is right to carefully and persistently work to correct them. It is wrong and dangerous to ascribe all kinds of other wrong beliefs, motives, and actions to them because in our mind those other errors are associated with the error we see,even if sometimes those other errors are interconnected. For example, I do not believe Calvinism is correct. But I do not accuse someone who I barely know of thinking that God is unloving or that evangelism is unnecessary if I find out they are Calvinist. Many Calvinists do NOT make those errors, even though those errors have occasionally been associated with Calvinism. So please don't accuse me of not understanding that suffering is a normal part of the Christian life or of not loving my enemies because I disagree with you about Christians serving in the military. It is hurtful to me, and dangerous for you.

    NIV Matthew 7:1-2 "Do not judge, or you too will be judged. For in the same way you judge others, you will be judged, and with the measure you use, it will be measured to you."
     
  3. SteveIndy

    SteveIndy Active Member Supporter

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    Ungraceful? You have associated out Savior and Lord with bloodshed and violence and I am ungraceful? Please explain to me how you can at the same time kill your enemy and love him? I am not going to kill someone who I have been called to love, as a matter of fact, we are called to give our own lives for our enemies. That kind of love is not good news at all. I do not judge you, the words of your mouth will judge you. By your approval of the military judging your enemies on your behalf you judge your neighbor as unfit to live. When you voted in the election you consented to every bullet, every bomb, and every missile dropped or shot and every life lost. Every judgment handed down by the courts and every execution has your name attached. Every police beating or shooting has been sanctioned by you because you threw your hat into the ring of this world and ignored the plain words of Christ to come out of the world and be separated. This is the Christianity that the 21st century has inherited and it is just the opposite of the Gospel of peace, love, and mercy. Today these words symbolize something altogether different than what Christ intended. But, our Lord did say that it would be that way in the end times and He also said that very few there would be who would find the way, but the road to destruction would be broad and easy. Mark you appear to be a nice guy but your theology is backwards.
     
  4. SteveIndy

    SteveIndy Active Member Supporter

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    Paul used his Roman citizenship not to protect his flesh he used it to secure an audience before the Emporer. Please do not pretend to make Paul a coward, he had a mission and he used that benefit for that purpose. He also knew that the price of that sermon would be costly.
     
  5. gerbilwoman

    gerbilwoman Well-Known Member Supporter

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    Thank you for your service.
     
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  6. Choir Loft

    Choir Loft Member

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    You, sir, are a poor student of history as well as the Bible.

    The Bible chronicles God's use of wicked empires to destroy nations that were once dedicated to Him, but betrayed their initial dedication. Once chastisement fell upon them the nation that executed the judgment was itself destroyed. Read what happened to the Assyrians and Babylonians if you don't believe me. Do your homework!

    "Christ does not vindicate a race or a nation. It is the sovereignty of God which is vindicated."
    - Reinhold Neibuhr

    Jesus NEVER supported the troops, Roman Jewish or otherwise. Jesus NEVER pledged His allegiance to a flag banner or icon of empire. Jesus paid His taxes and obeyed the civil laws. He NEVER honored worldly empires, in fact He literally ran from attempts to involve Him in political office. Neither should anyone who claims to follow Him.

    There is no such thing as "a good cause". The Confederacy discovered that as did every other usurper of divine purpose - including Nazi Germany and America. Today many religious dolts quote the phrase "God Bless America" without realizing that Hitler used it first.

    gott mit uns


    was a phrase published in pre-war Germany to justify militarism and anti-semitism. The German phrase may be translated into English as "God is With Us".

    Americans say God Bless America even as we invade nations that haven't raised arms against us, bomb and brutalize innocent civilians as a matter of policy, torture combatants and non-combatants, and commit every sort of war crime in specific violation of our own laws and principles. God will NOT bless or honor so devious and brutal a nation. He never has and He never will.

    Judgment has already begun upon America. According to an NBC story in August 2018, the US had suffered an average of two to three BILLION dollars' worth of devastation and destruction PER MONTH since the beginning of the year. Every politician and media outlet in America calls for unity, but unity is as far from America as the dark side of the moon. Does this look like blessings to you?

    Study history. The first thing that happens to an empire in decline is DISunity. The empire begins to break up - seized by argument and disruption within and attack and invasion from without. Those issues are upon us RIGHT NOW.

    God is not listening to prayers to bless America. It ought to be obvious to anyone except those who persist in maintaining their faith in US propaganda rather than the Word of God.

    The answer is to repent. The nation as we've known it is lost. Indeed much of what made America great has already passed into history. What is left in the world is distrusted by our allies and mocked by our enemies. The call to 'wake up' has gone unheeded. We are too proud for that.

    Watch and learn pilgrim. The worst is yet to come and it will come quickly.

    Repent and make peace with God while there is time. Tomorrow's arrival is uncertain.

    that's me, hollering from the choir loft...
     
  7. SteveIndy

    SteveIndy Active Member Supporter

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    Thank you, Choir Loft. Finally some sanity from an American Christian. They forget that Christ died and told His followers to follow His example as did His Apostles and the primitive Church for the first three hundred years. Killing your enemies is not loving your enemies, neither is it turning the other cheek. The very Lord that they say they serve predicted that the end times would be marked by the fact that good would become evil and evil good and the whole world has bought into the strong delusion. It has probably never occurred to most of these lovers of war and violence that Armageddon will be a consortium of all the armies of the world, including America with all of it Christian soldiers, gathered together to wage war against the returning Christ. That will be a sad day to be caught in uniform because we know how that turns out. "Why do you call Me Lord and do not do the things I have commanded."
     
  8. Choir Loft

    Choir Loft Member

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    Your quote of Luke 6:46 has been added to my collection of favorite verses. Thank you for posting it. It is extremely apropros to the discussion and the current attitude of fanatical militarism that has seized America (another sign of an empire in decline, btw).

    As for me and my house, we shall serve the Lord (Jesus, not POTUS).

    I read your words and I am terribly afraid that what you say may come true.

    I hope with all my heart that innocent young men and women, who've been led astray by government propaganda and political correctness, might not put on an American uniform and submit to the horrors of such a conflict (or any unjust conflict we become involved in) simply because they want excitement or believe they are serving a just government (which they most certainly are not). Once upon a time I did that very thing myself. I have lived my entire life in regret of what I did and what I saw done in the name of flag and country.

    I have blood stains on my hands that will never wash off. Young people do not realize or understand what horrors lie in wait for them when they put on a uniform. Martial music and patriotic movies are fine on national holidays, but they are lies of the devil when used to inspire recruitment of the young. Our country has forgotten God and the sacrifice of Christ Jesus upon the cross.

    JESUS' BLOOD is the only right stain to have upon one's life.

    American Christians, who ought to know better, have forgotten that simple basic truth. Like Esau, we have traded our birthright for a mess of shoddy pottage - meaning our political and spiritual future rather than matters of materialism usually preached against. We have sown the wind and we shall reap the whirlwind for our sins and wickedness.

    To the reader: it is time to repent. Time is short. Repent.

    that's me, hollering from the choir loft...
     
    Last edited: Nov 18, 2018
  9. SteveIndy

    SteveIndy Active Member Supporter

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    Thank you for the response. I too was in the military. I arrived in Viet Nam in January 1968 and spent the next two years there a full year at Dongtam in the south. My two friends that I enlisted with were both casualties one being wounded and the other wounded mentally and still lives alone with demons who keep him awake at night. Killing and violence are not normal to the human condition and only Christ can make it right. Acknowledging the sin, asking forgiveness, and repentance is the doorway to all kinds of healing.
     
  10. Hieronymus

    Hieronymus Well-Known Member

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    Blessed is the land who's God is he LORD
     
  11. Choir Loft

    Choir Loft Member

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    Not exactly sure what you mean by "wars of the N.T." being about God's turf. You didn't give any examples, but assuming from the generic tone of your post you're assuming the religious wars had something to do with the Almighty.

    They did not.

    It was church turf, not God's. It was always about control issues. For instance, the Great Schism of the church between the Roman church in the west and the Orthodox churches of the east was and continues to be an issue pivoting upon papal authority. The pope wanted authority over all and the eastern church refused. Schism.....

    The Crusades was a series of conflicts that began as defensive in nature, but rapidly degenerated into one of European politics. The papacy couldn't or wouldn't support further military adventures in the levant and by the second crusade the entire enterprise was in crisis. As a result the middle ages came to a crashing end with the fall of Constantinople by Calif Memet II.

    The Protestant Reformation was a nationalistic movement. It had little to do with God. Local kings and authorities supported a break with Rome issuing in a series of religious wars. They wanted a piece of the action. It was justified by Biblical ideologies quoting the Bible, such as anti-semitic Lutheranism. Europe was awash in blood for centuries because church leaders wanted control over the people. It never had anything to do with God.

    A half-century after the discovery of the new world, parties of disgusted Christians began to seek a dangerous and potentially fatal new life in the Americas - far from European suppression of religious expression. It was all about seeking freedom from control issues - never about God.

    Today the control issue is greater than ever. Major European protestant denominations have all tacitly agreed to a restoration with Roman authority. Papal control, not God's control.

    I need to remind the reader of the Roman Catholic ideology concerning the hierarchy of heavenly authority. At the top of authority is the Virgin Mary. Second in line is the Pope because he's the top dog on earth. At the bottom of the pile is the Nazarene Jesus because He always does what His mother wants Him to do.

    There is NO divine authority in any of this.

    And nobody cares. We blame God for all OUR faults and we seek the authority of worldly people rather than those who truly devote their lives to God. Those types are always at the bottom of the ladder.

    Finally Old Covenant Law forms the basis of God's authority upon earth. It teaches us who God is, what He expects of us, outlines the process and procedure of redemption and provides for salvation in the coming of messiah. It is not a shadow. It is the rock upon which faith is based and is the very definition of it.

    The Bible, the whole Bible, is essential for us to learn of God and God's plan of redemption.

    that's me, hollering from the choir loft...
     
  12. SteveIndy

    SteveIndy Active Member Supporter

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    Any allusion to war from me is always of the spiritual kind and not the physical kind.

    As far as the O.T. being the foundation I would have to disagree, it is only a shadow. The reason I say this is because the N.T. has the final say in our understanding of the O.T. Jesus has discounted the O.T. in favor of the N.T. in His sermon on the mount where He states six times "You have heard it said...but I say...." He then says that "the law and the prophets were until John...." Paul in the book of Hebrews has made this plain in numerous places but none plainer than Hebrews 9:16-24 "In the case of a will, it is necessary to prove the death of the one who made it, because a will is in force only when somebody has died; it never takes effect while the one who made it is living. This is why even the first covenant was not put into effect without blood. It was necessary, then, for the copies (representation) of the heavenly things to be purified with these sacrifices, but the heavenly things themselves with better sacrifices than these. For Christ did not enter a sanctuary made with human hands that was only a copy (representation) of the true one; he entered heaven itself, now to appear for us in God’s presence." The O.T. is the old last will and testament and as long as the testator is alive the will can be changed and amended as often as the testator wishes, and that is what happened. Christ came and changed His will and then He died sealing the document for all time. The O.T. is a representation of the heart and mind of God but the N.T. is His final word.
     
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