Absolute proof.. can't deny.. the earth is flat

[Subduction Zone]

Microwaves don't go far enough. If the earth was flat, you would not see microwave dishes all over the place. Microwaves simply head off into outer space because they travel perfectly straight.

When Flat Earthers say that we see too far is because the atmosphere will bend light a bit. This happens more on warm days. If you live where it is relatively flat you can see this sometimes when driving. The hot pavement makes the air above it hot and therefore less dense than air that is higher up. You will see a mirage. It will look as if the highway is wet due to the way it bends the light:

The same thing can happen to distant objects over the horizon. This will also happen to microwaves. But it cannot be used to send them further since it is a phenomenon of weather. If we don't have a temperature gradient it will not happen. Companies that send signals that way have to base repeater distance on the reliable distance that their signals will go.

At any rate, one can usually tell if seeing "too far" is due to refraction. The atmosphere is far from a perfect lens so on those days when one sees too far the image one sees is highly distorted. There is a picture of distant oil drilling platforms that Flat Earthers call The Black Swan. One could see about twice as far as one was supposed to be able to. Their claim is refuted by the distortion of the rigs in the photo:

 

[HantsUK]

Refraction.

Yes.

If refraction is ignored, these images still prove that the earth is round, only that its diameter is larger than claimed. This is not evidence of a flat earth.

If the earth was flat (and no refraction):
You would not see further from 200 ft up a cliff than at sea level.
High mountains and buildings would be visible for much further, provided there was a clear line of sight.
France (Normandy) would be visible from the Isle of Wight.

 

[Torah Keeper]

As I have said before, we see too far.

The earth may not be flat but explain this video and the evidence it shows in plain site. I'm surprised that it is still available. YouTube mods must have missed it.

Wow! Hudson Bay! This video makes me think...

1200 miles is wayyyy too far to explain away with our current model. But considering the evidence against a flat Earth (24 hour sun in Antarctica, for example) I would consider another possibility.

However I do see some curvature, otherwise anything should be visible from anywhere above the Earth. You should be able to see China from a balloon over USA if Earth was flat.

The side-by-side comparison with Google Earth is nearly the same, but not quite. It is as if Earth is bigger than we think. I can think of at least 4 possibilities:

1. Earth is larger than we are being told. This could be to hide secret continents, especially in the Southern Hemisphere, where navigation seems to not be accurate lots of times.
2. Earth is flat. Although there is evidence it is indeed round. A flat Earth only creates additional unexplainable observations.
3. Light is more affected by gravity than we think, and is curved around the Earth to some distance (I lean toward this theory).
4. That's not Hudson Bay. If not, what is it?

So why don't flat Earthers all go fund a pack of weather balloons and put a telescope way up there? Do it on a dry, clear, calm night. Those little headband cameras they send up aren't really showing much. Yeah I can't really see the curve....but are you high enough to see it? I think even at 25 miles you are still not high enough, considering a circumference of about 25,000 miles.

 

[Subduction Zone]

Wow! Hudson Bay! This video makes me think...

1200 miles is wayyyy too far to explain away with our current model. But considering the evidence against a flat Earth (24 hour sun in Antarctica, for example) I would consider another possibility.

However I do see some curvature, otherwise anything should be visible from anywhere above the Earth. You should be able to see China from a balloon over USA if Earth was flat.

The side-by-side comparison with Google Earth is nearly the same, but not quite. It is as if Earth is bigger than we think. I can think of at least 4 possibilities:

1. Earth is larger than we are being told. This could be to hide secret continents, especially in the Southern Hemisphere, where navigation seems to not be accurate lots of times.
2. Earth is flat. Although there is evidence it is indeed round. A flat Earth only creates additional unexplainable observations.
3. Light is more affected by gravity than we think, and is curved around the Earth to some distance (I lean toward this theory).
4. That's not Hudson Bay. If not, what is it?

So why don't flat Earthers all go fund a pack of weather balloons and put a telescope way up there? Do it on a dry, clear, calm night. Those little headband cameras they send up aren't really showing much. Yeah I can't really see the curve....but are you high enough to see it? I think even at 25 miles you are still not high enough, considering a circumference of about 25,000 miles.

Perhaps the person misinterpreted what he saw in infrared. In other words, not Hudson Bay.

 

[d taylor]

Nothing can convince me that the earth is not a globe. The reason is simple. It is a globe.

I gave you the link to that online publication not because of a flat earth. I gave you the link so you could read the section on All Past Time. Because you stated what does it mean referring to Genesis 1:14. That section in the book covers this, but if you do not want to read that chapter, that is no sweet off my back

Absolute proof.. can't deny.. the earth is flat

Absolute proof.. can't deny.. the earth is flat

 

[Shrewd Manager]

They have this little make believe webpage, that probably 1000's to 100's of thousands of people are watching. All watching, believing this is actually true.

Where Is Webb? NASA/Webb

Truth by consensus. 'Seeing is believing', the reassurance of the illusionist to the gullible.

 

[Shrewd Manager]

Thing is, Christian globe earth believers do believe in God's true creation of a 'globe' earth my friend!

So I showed you the picture of the 'Hebrew conception of the world' which is readily supported by scripture:

Gen 1:1-2 - Great deep and Heavens above.
Gen 1:6-8 - Firmament and waters above and below.
Gen 1:14 - Sun and moon in firmament
Job 38:4, Ps 104:5 - Foundations of earth
Gen 7:11, Ps 33:7 - Storehouses and fountains of the deep
Gen 42:38 etc - Sheol

Many other consistent verses support this. In fact, if you had no prejudices as to the geography and cosmology etc, and just constructed the world from scriptural testimony, the above is what would be produced.

Now may I ask you, would you be so kind as to produce the appropriate scriptural support for your preferred model? Thank you.

 

[Shrewd Manager]

All planets are ball shaped. Most moons are also.

Is this an attempt at syllogistic logic? All planets are round, earth is a planet so therefore it's round?

I'm sorry to be brutally honest, but it's really a pathetic effort. First, you need to prove that (a) there are 'planets', (b) what constitutes 'all' planets and (c) the sphericity of each and every alleged planet in the set.

Once you've done that to a scientific standard of certainty, you'll then find you've wasted your time on a pointless undertaking, unless you can show why it should be inferred that earth is also a 'planet'. The fact that the lights in my kitchen are all round does not imply the table is round, does it now?

So you see, proving something is not simply a matter of repeating opinion from hearsay sources and making conclusory assertions. That would be in the category of rumour and speculation, and inadmissible in any court, not to mention harmful to the credibility of the witness and the case.

You might henceforward consider taking a more careful and diligent approach to how you assess claims, particularly those from worldly sources.

 

[Shrewd Manager]

24 hour sun in Antarctica, for example)

The extremely rare videos of 24 hour sun in Antarctica have been thoroughly debunked.

anything should be visible from anywhere above the Earth.

Not so. The atmosphere has all kinds of water vapour and stuff to inhibit visibility. Infrared can improve the situation somewhat. Line of sight radio waves, VHF and lasers propagate much further than predicted on a ball.

Light is more affected by gravity than we think, and is curved around the Earth to some distance (I lean toward this theory).

You'd want some pretty good experimental and observational proof for this claim. Gravity bending light and at precisely the rates needed at different elevations to not distort the target. You might have seen the famous Rob Skiba experiment with the Chicago skyline where he disproves the 'refraction' type theories by boating all the way in and back.

So why don't flat Earthers all go fund a pack of weather balloons and put a telescope way up there?

There are several high altitude balloon experiments, some using carefully chosen cameras with lenses to minimise fisheye that tend to show a flat horizon at heights of up to 120,000 ft.

Another question is why Nasa's rockets don't include a few external cameras that maintain uninterrupted live feed as the rocket goes 'into space'. One of various important and interesting records notable by their absence.

 

[Lost4words]

So I showed you the picture of the 'Hebrew conception of the world' which is readily supported by scripture:

Gen 1:1-2 - Great deep and Heavens above.
Gen 1:6-8 - Firmament and waters above and below.
Gen 1:14 - Sun and moon in firmament
Job 38:4, Ps 104:5 - Foundations of earth
Gen 7:11, Ps 33:7 - Storehouses and fountains of the deep
Gen 42:38 etc - Sheol

Many other consistent verses support this. In fact, if you had no prejudices as to the geography and cosmology etc, and just constructed the world from scriptural testimony, the above is what would be produced.

Now may I ask you, would you be so kind as to produce the appropriate scriptural support for your preferred model? Thank you.

Interpretation.

You interpret it much more differently than the majority of Christians etc.

I dont read it as the earth is flat.

Also, you dont agree with science i presume? With the vast amount of evidence available showing the earth as a globe?

God gave us man. With that, He gave us intelligence, knowledge and truth.

I believe in that. I believe in a globe. Why?

Because i believe in God.

 

[Shrewd Manager]

You interpret it much more differently than the majority of Christians etc.

I accept the interpretation that Jesus and the ancient Hebrews put on it, because that's the only way to interpret it.

I dont read it as the earth is flat.

So that's what I'm asking - which scriptures do you point to to support a spinning, rotating sphere in near-infinite space?

I believe in that. I believe in a globe. Why?

Because i believe in God.

Without scriptural support, it's plainly not the God of the Bible in whom you believe.

 

[Lost4words]

I accept the interpretation that Jesus and the ancient Hebrews put on it, because that's the only way to interpret it.



So that's what I'm asking - which scriptures do you point to to support a spinning, rotating sphere in near-infinite space?



Without scriptural support, it's plainly not the God of the Bible in whom you believe.

Again, its 'YOUR' interpretation. You dont know what the Jews or Jesus thought of the shape of the earth.

Thinking that the earth is flat is rather a 'modern' concept.

You are clutching at straws trying to interpret scripture as saying the earth is flat.

2Tim. 4:3 For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine; but wanting to have their ears tickled, they will accumulate for themselves teachers in accordance to their own desires, 2Tim. 4:4 and will turn away their ears from the truth and will turn aside to myths.
1Tim. 6:20 O Timothy, guard what has been entrusted to you, avoiding worldly and empty chatter and the opposing arguments of what is falsely called “knowledge” — 1Tim. 6:21 which some have professed and thus gone astray from the faith. Grace be with you.

 

[Shrewd Manager]

Again, its 'YOUR' interpretation. You dont know what the Jews or Jesus thought of the shape of the earth.

Thinking that the earth is flat is rather a 'modern' concept.

You are clutching at straws trying to interpret scripture as saying the earth is flat.

2Tim. 4:3 For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine; but wanting to have their ears tickled, they will accumulate for themselves teachers in accordance to their own desires, 2Tim. 4:4 and will turn away their ears from the truth and will turn aside to myths.
1Tim. 6:20 O Timothy, guard what has been entrusted to you, avoiding worldly and empty chatter and the opposing arguments of what is falsely called “knowledge” — 1Tim. 6:21 which some have professed and thus gone astray from the faith. Grace be with you.

Come on now. You can't just stand around throwing stones. I've showed I believe quite clearly how the scriptures support a flat motionless earth. Either show me specifically where I have misinterpreted those scriptures, or preferably show me what scriptures you rely on to support the modern whiz-bang model. That's only fair, isn't it?

 

[Lost4words]

The Bible does not attempt to teach mathematics, chemistry, biology or many other areas of knowledge that are self-evidently true despite being absent in God's word.

Therefore, we cannot become blind to obvious truths of nature, nor should we dismiss or ignore extra-biblical sources of truth so long as they do not contradict scripture.

The Bible does not state that the earth is flat. You just interpret scripture to mean its flat.

 

[Lost4words]

An extract from a good read for those who are misguided into believing the earth is flat:

After an examination of the biblical texts, it is our conclusion that the Bible does not teach that the earth is flat, or that it has a literal vault or dome, or that there are pillars under the earth. The claims for a “flat earth” are made more on presupposition than responsible exegesis. The internet sites that use these texts as evidence often provide no explanation for them. Further, and with all due respect to the bloggers who promote the “flat earth” view, they use these texts out of context, without a contextual reading. They take these texts literally, based on faulty assumptions and with a predetermined outcome in mind. False assumptions lead to false conclusions; even if based on a range of texts, they will not lead to biblical truth.

Source: Does the Bible Teach that the Earth is Flat?

 

[LightLoveHope]

When Flat Earthers say that we see too far is because the atmosphere will bend light a bit. This happens more on warm days. If you live where it is relatively flat you can see this sometimes when driving. The hot pavement makes the air above it hot and therefore less dense than air that is higher up. You will see a mirage. It will look as if the highway is wet due to the way it bends the light:

View attachment 310240

The same thing can happen to distant objects over the horizon. This will also happen to microwaves. But it cannot be used to send them further since it is a phenomenon of weather. If we don't have a temperature gradient it will not happen. Companies that send signals that way have to base repeater distance on the reliable distance that their signals will go.

At any rate, one can usually tell if seeing "too far" is due to refraction. The atmosphere is far from a perfect lens so on those days when one sees too far the image one sees is highly distorted. There is a picture of distant oil drilling platforms that Flat Earthers call The Black Swan. One could see about twice as far as one was supposed to be able to. Their claim is refuted by the distortion of the rigs in the photo:

View attachment 310244

Here are a line of rigs in the gulf of Mexico,
Platforms A, B, and Hillhouse Pipeline Replacement Project
Platform A,B, and Hillhouse Pipeline Replacement Project - Diversified Project Services International
going off into the distance. You can see the black line of the tide marks on the base as they go to the horizon and then because of the curvature of the earth you only see the higher parts of the structure as they poke up over the horizon.

Now you can see enough detail to note the tide mark in the pictures, but these disappear because it is below the horizon. The only other explanation would be the rigs are actually lower in the water as they go further away, except this would be clearly absurd, and they are all identical in the need to prevent storms etc and stay secure at the same height above the calm sea level.

If you were to fly in a helicopter along these rigs, it would be absurd to suggest anything but a round earth as they rose over the horizon and come into view. If this was not the case every helicopter pilot would say, "hey the horizon does not stop where they say it would, the earth is flat", but they do not.

And you are talking every pilot who has ever flown at height, and I have met enough to know this is real. God bless you

 

[Subduction Zone]

View attachment 310313

Here are a line of rigs in the gulf of Mexico,
Platforms A, B, and Hillhouse Pipeline Replacement Project
Platform A,B, and Hillhouse Pipeline Replacement Project - Diversified Project Services International
going off into the distance. You can see the black line of the tide marks on the base as they go to the horizon and then because of the curvature of the earth you only see the higher parts of the structure as they poke up over the horizon.

Now you can see enough detail to note the tide mark in the pictures, but these disappear because it is below the horizon. The only other explanation would be the rigs are actually lower in the water as they go further away, except this would be clearly absurd, and they are all identical in the need to prevent storms etc and stay secure at the same height above the calm sea level.

If you were to fly in a helicopter along these rigs, it would be absurd to suggest anything but a round earth as they rose over the horizon and come into view. If this was not the case every helicopter pilot would say, "hey the horizon does not stop where they say it would, the earth is flat", but they do not.

And you are talking every pilot who has ever flown at height, and I have met enough to know this is real. God bless you

I like your picture because one can clearly see the curvature. It was taken on a day of moderate refraction. By the way, due to the atmosphere some refraction is expected. But even with refraction we can see that the Earth is curved.

 

[The Liturgist]

.

 

[Aussie Pete]

It depends upon how literally one interprets the Bible. The Bible does describe the Earth as flat in word and deed, but there are much clearer claims in the Bible that have been refuted, such as the Noah's Ark story. The Bible is not meant to be used as a science book.

Practically speaking, the earth is flat, at least where I'm standing. But even the ancients knew that the earth was a sphere.

And disbelieving something is not refuting it. There is plenty of evidence to suggest that Noah was real and the flood was world wide.

 

[Aussie Pete]

Wow! Hudson Bay! This video makes me think...

1200 miles is wayyyy too far to explain away with our current model. But considering the evidence against a flat Earth (24 hour sun in Antarctica, for example) I would consider another possibility.

However I do see some curvature, otherwise anything should be visible from anywhere above the Earth. You should be able to see China from a balloon over USA if Earth was flat.

The side-by-side comparison with Google Earth is nearly the same, but not quite. It is as if Earth is bigger than we think. I can think of at least 4 possibilities:

1. Earth is larger than we are being told. This could be to hide secret continents, especially in the Southern Hemisphere, where navigation seems to not be accurate lots of times.
2. Earth is flat. Although there is evidence it is indeed round. A flat Earth only creates additional unexplainable observations.
3. Light is more affected by gravity than we think, and is curved around the Earth to some distance (I lean toward this theory).
4. That's not Hudson Bay. If not, what is it?

So why don't flat Earthers all go fund a pack of weather balloons and put a telescope way up there? Do it on a dry, clear, calm night. Those little headband cameras they send up aren't really showing much. Yeah I can't really see the curve....but are you high enough to see it? I think even at 25 miles you are still not high enough, considering a circumference of about 25,000 miles.

Flat earthers do not accept eyewitness testimony from some of the most gifted and capable people on the planet. If you sent them into space, they would not believe their own eyes.