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About Sabbath

Discussion in 'Denomination Specific Theology' started by fatherforgivethem, Apr 23, 2021.

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  1. LoveGodsWord

    LoveGodsWord Well-Known Member

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    To have an interpretation of the scriptures that Gods’ 10 commandments are no longer a requirement for Christian living for gentile believers has Paul contradicting himself when he goes to the Corinthians believers after the Jerusalem meeting and says to them in 1 Corinthians 7:19 “Circumcision is nothing and uncircumcision is nothing but the keeping of the commandments of God.

    Acts of the Apostles 15:1-2 shows that the chapter context being discussed here is over the question “Is the “shadow law” of “circumcision” a requirement for salvation for new gentile believers. This was the question v2 says that Paul and Barnabas went to discuss in Jerusalem. Not if the 10 commandments are requirement for Christian living. Circumcision is not one of God’s 10 commandments. It is a “shadow law” from the book of Moses that points to a new heart by faith under the old covenant. It is a physical law pointing to the new covenant law of the Spirit as shown in Romans 2:28-29

    What are these shadow laws of circumcision foretold in the old and new testament scriptures?

    Deuteronomy 10:16 [16] CIRCUMCISE THERFORE THE FORESKIN OF YOUR HEART, and be no more stiff-necked.

    Deuteronomy 30:6 [6] And the LORD your God will CIRCUMCISE YOUR HEART AND THE HEART OF YOUR DECENDENCE, TO LOVE THE LORD YOUR GOD WITH ALL YOUR HEART AND WITH YOU’RE YOUR SOUL, THAT YOU MAY LIVE.

    Jeremiah 4:4 [4] CIRCUMCISE YOURSELF TO THE LORD, AND TAKE AWAY THE FORESKINS OF YOUR HEART, you men of Judah and inhabitants of Jerusalem: lest my fury come forth like fire, and burn that none can quench it, because of the evil of your doings.

    Note: new covenant fulfillment of the shadows of the ceremonial ordinance of circumcision pointing the circumcision of the heart through faith in Christ…

    Romans 2:25-29 [25] For circumcision verily profits, if you keep the law: but if you are a breaker of the law, your circumcision is made uncircumcision. [26], Therefore if the uncircumcision keeps the righteousness of the law, shall not his uncircumcision be counted for circumcision? [27], And shall not uncircumcision which is by nature, if it fulfils the law, judge you, who by the letter and circumcision do transgress the law? [28], FOR HE IS NOT A JEW, WHO IS ONE; NEITHER IS THAT CIRCUMCISION, WHICH IS OF THE OUTWARD FLESH: [29], BUT HE IS A JEW WHICH IS ONE INWARDLY; AND CIRCUMCISION IS THAT OF THE HEART, IN THE SPIRIT AND NOT IN THE LETTER; WHOSE PRAISE IS NOT OF MEN BUT OF GOD.

    1 Corinthians 7:19 [19] CIRCUMCISION IS NOTHING, AND UNCIRCUMCISION IS NOTHING, BUT THE KEEPING OF THE COMMANDMENTS OF GOD.

    This is the operation of GOD in the NEW COVENANT promise to Gods ISRAEL who are all those who through faith believe and follow God's Word…

    Hebrews 8:10 [10], For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, says the Lord; I WILL PUT MY LAWS INTO THEIR MINDS, AND WRITE THEM IN THEIR HEARTS [NOTE: THE SHADOW OF CIRCUMCSION]: and I will be to them a God, and they shall be to me a people:

    ……………

    CONCLUSION; Circumcision is not one of God’s 10 commandments. Acts of the Apostles 15 was never over the question is the 10 commandments are requirement for Christian living but is the “shadow law” of “circumcision” a requirement for the salvation of new gentile believers. This is also confirmed by Paul latter after the decision of Jerusalem when he says to the Corinthian believers “circumcision is nothing, and uncircumcision is nothing, BUT THE KEEPING OF THE COMMANDMENTS OF GOD.” So these scriptures do no support a view that God’s 10 commandments are no longer a requirement for Christian living.

    more to come...
     
  2. LoveGodsWord

    LoveGodsWord Well-Known Member

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    This for some reason seems to be a confusing passage of scripture for some but it is not difficult if we follow context and what Paul has already stated in other passages. This scripture actually has nothing to do with God’s 10 commandments being abolished. That is a false teaching and contradicts what Paul says in other scriptures. Let's examine this interpretation.

    The ministration of death is the penalty for sin because according to the scriptures he wages of sin is death according to Paul but the gift of God is eternal life through JESUS Christ *Romans 6:23. It is the ministration of condemnation and death that is done away in Christ because he paid the price for our sins in those who believe God's Word and have been made free to walk in God’s Spirit *John 3:16; Galatians 5:16.

    If we walk in God’s Spirit according to the scriptures we will not fulfill the lusts of the flesh *Galatians 5:16. In fact if we walk in God’s Spirit, God’s law according to Pail is established in us because of God’s forgiveness for our sins and the scriptures are fulfilled in Romans 8:1-4 [1], THERE IS THEREFORE NOW NO CONDEMNATION TO THEM WHICH ARE IN CHRIST JESUS, WHO WALK NOT AFTER THE FLESH, BUT AFTER THE SPIRIT.[2], For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus has made me free from the law of sin and death. [3], For what the law could not do, in that it was weak through the flesh, God sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, and for sin, condemned sin in the flesh: [4], THAT THE RIGHTEOUSNESS OF THE LAW MIGHT BE FULFILLED IN US, WHO WALK NOT AFTER THE FLESH, BUT AFTER THE SPIRIT.

    So having an interpretation of 2 Corinthians 3:7 that God’s law (10 commandments) have been abolished is a false one dear friend. It is the ministration of condemnation and sins penalty that has been abolished in those who believe and follow God’s Word.

    Need more evidence?

    An interpretation of 2 Corinthians 3:7 of God’s 10 Commandments being abolished has Paul contradicting himself in Romans 3:31. Here lets show how by comparing 2 Corinthians 3:7 where some interpret this scripture as God’s 10 commandments being abolished with Romans 3:31 where Paul state God’s law is not to be abolished but established through faith…

    PARALLEL OF ROMANS 3:31

    ROMANS 3:31 (Aramaic Bible in Plain English) Are we (G2673) eliminating The Written Law by faith? God forbid, but we are (G2476) establishing The Written Law.

    ROMANS 3:31 (International Standard Version) Do we, then, (G2673) abolish the Law by this faith? Of course not! Instead, we (G2476) uphold the Law.

    ROMANS 3:31 (KJV) Do we then make (G2673) void the law through faith? Certainly not! On the contrary, we (G2476) establish the law.

    Note the Greek word used here for void/eliminating/abolish is G2673 in the Greek

    ROMANS 3:31 (Greek) νόμον οὖν (G2673) καταργοῦμενην διὰ τῆς πίστεως μὴ γένοιτο· ἀλλὰ νόμον (G2476) ἱστῶμεν

    Note the same Greek word is used for ROMANS 3:31 is also used in 2 CORITHIANS 3:7…

    2 CORINTHIANS 3:7 (International Standard Version) Now if the ministry of death that was inscribed in letters of stone came with such glory that the people of Israel could not gaze on Moses' face (G2673) because the glory was fading away from it,

    2 CORINTHIANS 3:7 (Aramaic Bible in Plain English) But if the ministry of death in The Scripture carved in stone was with glory, so that the children of Israel were not able to gaze at the face of Moses because of the glory of his face (G2673) that which has been canceled ,

    2 CORINTHIANS 3:7 (KJV) But if the ministration of death, written and engraven in stones, was glorious, so that the children of Israel could not stedfastly behold the face of Moses for the glory of his countenance; which glory was to be (G2673) done away

    2 CORINTHIANS 3:7 (Greek) Εἰ δὲ ἡ διακονία τοῦ θανάτου ἐν γράμμασιν ἐντετυπωμένη ἐν λίθοις ἐγενήθη ἐν δόξῃ, ὥστε μὴ δύνασθαι ἀτενίσαι τοὺς υἱοὺς Ἰσραὴλ εἰς τὸ πρόσωπον Μωϋσέως διὰ τὴν δόξαν τοῦ προσώπου αὐτοῦ τὴν (G2673) καταργουμένην

    ……………

    Note the same word used in ROMANS 3:31 for abolish is used in 2 CORINTHIANS 3:7 as shown above and is also translated as abolished in some English translations. Let’s look at the Greek word meaning that both scriptures use…

    Hebrew and Greek Dictionaries w/TVM, Strong - G2673 καταργέω
    Καταργουμένην; katargeō From G2596 and G691; to be (render) entirely idle (useless), literally or figuratively: - abolish, cease, cumber, deliver, destroy, do away, become (make) of no (none, without) effect, fail, loose, bring (come) to nought, put away (down), vanish away, make void.

    Thayer's Greek Lexicon STRONGS NT 2673: καταργέω
    καταργέω, κατάργω; future καταργήσω; 1 aorist κατήργησα; perfect κατήργηκα; passive, present καταργοῦμαι; perfect κατήργημαι; 1 aorist κατηργήθην; 1 future καταργηθήσομαι; causative of the verb ἀργέω, equivalent to ἀργόν (i. e. ἀεργον (on the accent cf. Chandler § 444)) ποιῶ; frequent with Paul, who uses it 25 times (elsewhere in N. T. only twice (Luke, Heb.), in the Sept. 4 times (2 Esdr., see below)); 1. to render idle, unemployed, inactive, inoperative: τήν γῆν, to deprive of its strength, make barren (A. V. cumber), Luke 13:7; to cause a person or a thing to have no further efficiency; to deprive of force, influence, power (A. V. bring to nought, make of none effect): τί, Romans 3:3; 1 Corinthians 1:28; τινα, 1 Corinthians 2:6 (but in passive); diabolic powers, 1 Corinthians 15:24 (Justin Martyr, Apology 2, 6); Antichrist, 2 Thessalonians 2:8; τόν θάνατον, 2 Timothy 1:10 (Epistle of Barnabas 5, 6 [ET]); τόν διάβολον, Hebrews 2:14; passive 1 Corinthians 15:26; to make void, τήν ἐπαγγελίαν, Galatians 3:17; passive Romans 4:14. 2. to cause to cease, put an end to, do away with, annul, abolish: τί, 1 Corinthians 6:13; 1 Corinthians 13:11; τόν νόμον, Romans 3:31; Ephesians 2:15; τόν καιρόν τοῦ ἀνόμου, Epistle of Barnabas 15, 5 [ET]; passive πόλεμος καταργεῖται ἐπουρανίων καί ἐπιγείων, Ignatius ad Eph. 13, 2 [ET]; ἵνα καταργηθῇ τό σῶμα τῆς ἁμαρτίας, that the body of sin might be done away, i. e. not the material of the body, but the body so far forth as it is an instrument of sin; accordingly, that the body may cease to be an instrument of sin, Romans 6:6. Passive to cease, pass away, be done away: of things, Galatians 5:11; 1 Corinthians 13:8, 10; 2 Corinthians 3:7, 11, 13f; of persons, followed by ἀπό τίνος, to be severed from, separated from, discharged from, loosed from, anyone; to terminate all contact with one (a pregnant construction, cf. Winers Grammar, 621 (577); Buttmann, 322 (277)): ἀπό τοῦ Χριστοῦ, Galatians 5:4 (on the aorist cf. Winer's Grammar, § 40, 5 b.); ἀπό τοῦ νόμου, Romans 7: (2 (Relz omits τοῦ νόμου)),6. The word is rarely met with in secular authors, as Euripides, Phoen. 753 κατάργειν χερα, to make idle, i. e. to leave the hand unemployed; Polybius quoted in Suidas (s. v. κατηργηκεναι) τούς καιρούς, in the sense of to let slip, leave unused; in the Sept. four times for Chaldean בַּטֵּל, to make to cease, i. e. restrain, check, hinder, 2 Esdr. 4:21, 23 2Esdr. 5:5 2Esdr. 6:8.

    ................

    CONCLUSION: So as can be shown above an interpretation of 2 Corinthians 3:7 that God’s 10 commandments are abolished has PAUL contradicting himself in ROMANS 3:31. The correct context of 2 Corinthians 3:7 is the ministration of condemnation that is to be abolished by the ministration of the Spirit as shown in 2 Corinthians 3:3-13. So nope not saying what you are dear friend. Your interpretation of 2 Corinthians 3:7 has Paul contradicting himself when he says In Romans 3:31 Do we then (G2673) abolish the law through faith? Certainly not! On the contrary, we (G2476) establish the law.

    Hope this is helpful and can be a blessing to all those who love Gods' Word. :wave:
     
    Last edited: Apr 25, 2021
  3. pasifika

    pasifika Well-Known Member

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    Gentiles who join in the kingdom will worship God in Spirit since God is Spirit,so no need of a place or particular day..you can worship him anytime, anyday because He is near and this is the freedom we have through knowing God...
     
  4. LoveGodsWord

    LoveGodsWord Well-Known Member

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    No one loves God according to John or Jesus by breaking God's commandments *1 John 5:2-4; John 14:15; John 15:10; Matthew 22:36-40. Those who knowingly break God's commandment according to John do not know God in 1 John 2:3-4 because those who know God do not knowingly practice sin in 1 John 3:6-9. So to claim we know God by knowingly breaking anyone of God's commandments is not biblical according to the scriptures *James 2:10-11 as God only gives His Spirit to those who believe and follow his Word according to Acts of the Apostles 5:29.
     
    Last edited: Apr 25, 2021
  5. HIM

    HIM Friend

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    Our lives are to be lived to His praise through Christ. Our very existence exuberates this and is the worship in which our God desires through Christ. However the Sabbath is the Day in which God blessed and sanctified. In this Day, the 7th we are called to rest because he blessed and sanctified it in honor of our Creation and He himself rested on it.
    He blessed and sanctified it on the Seventh Day and it remains so to this day.
     
  6. BobRyan

    BobRyan Junior Member

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    I should have added Martin Luther to my list -- sorry about missing it.

    ==================================================

    Martin Luther
    From the book “Explanation of Martin Luther's Small Catechism”, released by the book committee of the Evangelical Lutheran Church of America,

    "How many kinds of laws did God give in the Old Testament? Three kinds:
    I. The ceremonial church law;
    2. The civil law;
    3. The moral law
    . Which of these laws is still in force? The moral law, which is contained in the Ten Commandments. Cannot this law be abolished? No; because it is founded on God's holy and righteous nature."

    "Martin Luther engaged in several disputations with people who misused his writings to say the ten commandment law was done away with. These disputations have been printed by the Lutheran Press in books entitled: "Don't Tell Me That" and "Only the Decalogue is Eternal". Following is a brief quote from chapter One of "Don't Tell Me That":​

    • “Repentance is the sadness we experience after committing a specific sin as well as the resolution we then make not to sin in such a way again. Such sadness is the feeling or awareness in our heart or conscience that we have disobeyed the Law of God (the 10 Commandments: Exodus 20; Deuteronomy 6). Many people hear the Law, but because they do not feel the effect or power of the Law in their hearts, experience no sadness, and so are not truly repentant....
    • “In reality, regret is the sorrow or torment experienced by the conscience (whether it wants to or not!) when properly addressed or confronted by the Law.
    In the past it was also taught that sin was simply an improper action against man-made institutions. Seldom were sins addressed that were committed against the moral law (the 10 Commandments).

    Then we turn to chapter two of the same book and read:

    • “Nowadays there is a novel idea afoot! According to the promoters of this idea, the Law (that is, the 10 Commandments) should be completely removed from the Church. This is nothing else but deplorable and irreverent.
    • The entire Bible teaches that it is the Law which must initiate repentance.....Sin and death are not exposed by a Word of grace and comfort, but only by the Law.
    • The Spirit first rebukes the world because of sin ( John 16:8) so that He can then teach faith in Christ, that is, the forgiveness of sins. Paul in Romans held to this way of teaching when he first taught that all people are sinners and then afterwards, that they must become righteous only through Jesus Christ (Romans 3:23, 28).
     
  7. BobRyan

    BobRyan Junior Member

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    The "Sabbath" doctrine has two simple components.

    1. All TEN of the TEN Commandments are included in the moral Law of God that defines what sin IS AND is applicable to all mankind even in the NT.
    2. The Sabbath commandment cannot be "edited" by Tradition.

    almost ALL of the back-and-forth arguments are on easy-simple-part 1 where Bible scholars on BOTH sides of the Sabbath topic, in almost all major denomination - AGREE.

    Even the Orthodox church confesses it as now noted on page 2 of this thread.

    ========================================
    ...
    Orthodox church

    From The Longer Catechism of The Orthodox, Catholic, Eastern Church • Pravoslavieto.com

    65. Where may we find the elements of the doctrine of charity?

    In the Ten Commandments of the Law of God.

    490. You said that these Commandments were given to the people of Israel: must we, then, also walk by them?

    We must: for they are in substance the same law which, in the words of St. Paul, has been written in the hearts of all men, that all should walk by it.

    491. Did Jesus Christ teach men to walk by the Ten Commandments?

    He bade men, if they would attain to everlasting life, to keep the Commandments and taught us to understand and fulfill them more perfectly than had been done before he came. Matt xix. 17, and v.

    On the Division of the Commandments into Two Tables.

    492. What means the division of the Ten Commandments into two tables?

    This: that they contain two kinds of love--love to God, and love to our neighbor; and prescribe two corresponding kinds of duties.
    =========================== end quote

    Notice that even the Orthodox church confesses "the TEN" -- not merely "NINE" and affirms that they are not "just for Jews" in it's explicit statement above.

    11 pages of debate/discussion and almost all of it on "NINE and NOT TEN" ideas or else "all TEN Just for Jews" - which are the very points where the Orthodox statement above agrees with SDAs and other Sabbath keeping groups.

    An entire thread where it is precisely THAT side of the discussion that gets hammered by those opposing the SDA and other Sabbath keeping groups... How is it left for us to defend your own side of this discussion when it comes to "the first part" of this doctrine.

    (what follows is an example of looking at the second part of the debate - as if all this discussion rejecting "the TEN" never happened)


    More to the point
    So the "edit" is that one is "obeying the 4th commandment" by ignoring God's specific statement Ex 20:10 "the SEVENTH day is the Sabbath of the LORD (YHWH)" where "He BLESSED the SEVENTH day and made it holy" Ex 20:11 -- and change that to "first day".

    My point was that we agree on the fact of the TEN - all TEN still applicable so that the question is resonable which says "How, then, does the Christian Church obey the fourth commandment?"

    This entire thread is 99% in debate about "the TEN" and almost 0% on editing one of the commandments.

    So where are the non-SDAs and non-Sabbath keeping groups in defending "the TEN" when that is the focus of almost the entire thread???

    Here again an obvious easy point - that is "instructive" for the unbiased objective reader.
     
    Last edited: Apr 25, 2021
  8. BobRyan

    BobRyan Junior Member

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    As already pointed out on "page 1" and 2 of this thread as follows

    And here we can see it from the "Baptist Confession of Faith" section 19


    No doubt essential services were also done - like temple guards and guards at the gates on Sabbath - even in the OT without any complaints from God or His prophets in that regard.
     
  9. BobRyan

    BobRyan Junior Member

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    BobRyan said:
    No wonder it is the gentiles in Acts 13 - asking for more Gospel preaching "the next Sabbath"

    1. They did not ask for "more gospel preaching TOMORROW on week-day-1" they asked for more Gospel preaching "next Sabbath"
    2. Acts 18:4 "EVERY Sabbath" Gospel preaching to gentiles and Jews.
    3. Gentiles specifically singled out for Sabbath keeping in Is 56:6-8
    4. Lev 23:3 - the weekly Sabbath is a "day of holy convocation" they were in "holy convocation" ... the Sabbath commandment calls for rest and fellowship with God - as does Lev 23:3.

    Gentiles hearing the Gospel "every Sabbath" and Gentiles asking for more Gospel preaching "next Sabbath" instead of "tomorrow on week-day-1" - are details we should just ignore while supposing that these gentiles that just heard and accepted Gospel teaching are still ignoring the Word of God??

    - they "just so happen" to be acting in a manner showing compliance with it??

    How is that even remotely exegesis of the text??

    Gentiles are specifically singled out for Sabbath keeping in Isaiah 5:6-8 God's house of prayer for "ALL nations" not "just the Jews". Even the majority of Bible scholars in non-SDA non-Sabbath keeping denominations admit to these easy Bible details.
     
  10. BobRyan

    BobRyan Junior Member

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    Jesus confirmed the covenant but it had already started as Jeremiah points out - and even Moses affirmed it working in his day Deut 6:6 as we also see in the Psalms Ps 37:27-31. It is part of the "one Gospel" Gal 1:6-9 that had been "preached to Abraham" Gal 3:8

    That covenant is repeated verbatim in the NT - Heb 8:6-12 -- no change at all to it.

    So then gentiles specifically singled out for Sabbath keeping in Is 56:6-8 - its scope is "for all nations"

    Sabbath application in the OT is for "All mankind" specifically stated in Is 66:23 "from Sabbath to Sabbath shall ALL MANKIND come before Me to worship" - for all eternity after the cross in the New Earth.

    Acts 15 does not mention Sabbath, does not mention
    • "do not take God's name in vain"
    • "Love God with all your heart"
    • "Honor your parents"
    • , does not say that what the Bible calls "the TEN Commandments" is now "downsized to NINE"
    • , Does not say the Bible had been downsized to one paragraph for gentiles
     
  11. fhansen

    fhansen Oldbie

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    Yes, it was. Because that's how it was experienced by the church because that's how God did it, apparently quite consistent with the "new way". And it wasn't just the church in the west but in the east as well. And anyone can-and multitudes have- picked up the bible centuries later and proved little more than that that they could read-but not necessarily understand-which is why they often plausibly disagree on many points, all reading the same scripture.
     
    Last edited: Apr 25, 2021
  12. DamianWarS

    DamianWarS Follower of Isa Al Masih Supporter

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    no one keeps the sabbath (even the ones who say they do). If we actually read the sabbath law it is not just about ourselves it is about our household (slaves/servants and animals) and all under our care. it is also about those residing in our communities and if one of those were not to keep the sabbath then no one keeps the sabbath.

    Sabbath law summed up is don't work and don't cause others to work. The first part is easy, the last part not so much as in our modern society we are dependant upon systems that are driven by a workforce and when we participate in them unnecessarily on the sabbath we break the letter of the law. Things like electricity, mail, internet, cell phones, tv, driving, restaurants, banks, etc... The moment we participate in these things unnecessarily we are participating in a workforce driving those systems that do not value the sabbath (now in case you've lost focus, I'm speaking of unnecessary participation, I'm not talking about shutting down hospitals or turning off heat in the middle winter, again keyword "unnecessary")

    So we cannot keep the sabbath all we can keep is a theme of the Sabbath which is not good enough. However this is sort of the point, the law is unkeepable which is why Christ came to free us from the law but the law also points to this freedom. If we look at the sabbath law again it says that even slaves/servants and animals must rest. This is an important mark of the sabbath as slaves/servants and animals have no rights and are unable to rest unless they are given rest. That last part is important because in a system of grace we cannot obtain grace ourselves and it must be given to us. This is the sabbath of God; sabbath is salvation. You may keep a day based on your personal convictions or in keeping with traditions but that day itself cannot give you God's rest and this is the rest we should be seeking, the rest that only God can give and we have no authority or means to take ourselves.
     
    Last edited: Apr 26, 2021
  13. BobRyan

    BobRyan Junior Member

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    BobRyan said:
    The "new way" is same one that enabled Moses and Elijah to stand in glory with Christ in Matt 17 - before the cross. Jeremiah calls it "the New Covenant" as does Paul in Heb 8:6-12. The "one gospel" of Gal 1:6-9 in both OT and NT by which all are saved or lost if they reject it.

    But editing The Commandments of God - was never an option.

    The "Sabbath" doctrine has two simple components.

    1. All TEN of the TEN Commandments are included in the moral Law of God that defines what sin IS AND is applicable to all mankind even in the NT.
    2. The Sabbath commandment cannot be "edited" by Tradition.

    almost ALL of the back-and-forth arguments are on easy-simple-part 1 where Bible scholars on BOTH sides of the Sabbath topic, in almost all major denomination - AGREE.

    So then when it comes to the "easy part" the Catholic Church is also a good example of a denomination that accepts the Bible details in that particular aspect of this discussion. (as I will also show below). Your post deals with second part of the subject as noted above.

    My point recently says that if you look at 12 pages of discussion so far 99.99% of it is opposing the SDA and Sabbath groups - arguing that the first statement about affirming "all TEN being still in place for all mankind" - is the main point of difference. As your comment shows - this is NOT a problem for the Catholic Church scholars - they don't deny "the TEN" still being for all mankind. (Your post focuses only on the second point of the topic)

    Yet how "odd" that it is only the SDA and Sabbath keeping groups that are defending that "all TEN" point on this thread

     
    Last edited: Apr 25, 2021
  14. BobRyan

    BobRyan Junior Member

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    Is it your view then - that it is outright dangerous/risky/wrong for someone who is not a scholar to read the Bible and judge right-from-wrong by it - when it comes to doctrine?

    If so how then do they judge an Apostle as in Acts 17:11

    Acts 17:11 "they studied he scriptures daily to see IF those things spoken to them by the Apostle Paul - were SO"

    ===========================
    If so how then do they judge an Apostle or even an Angel from heaves as in Gal 1:6-9??

    Gal 1:6-9
    6 I am amazed that you are so quickly deserting Him who called you by the grace of Christ, for a different gospel, 7 which is not just another account; but there are some who are disturbing you and want to distort the gospel of Christ. 8 But even if we (Apostles), or an angel from heaven, should preach to you a gospel contrary to what we have preached to you, he is to be accursed! 9 As we have said before, even now I say again: if anyone is preaching to you a gospel contrary to what you received, he is to be accursed!

    ===========================

    If so - how would they do as Christ did in Matt 7 and slam-hammer established church tradition sola-scriptura as seen in Mark 7 when it comes to the one true nation-church established by God at Sinai?

    Mark 7:6-13
    6 But He said to them, “Rightly did Isaiah prophesy about you hypocrites, as it is written:
    ‘This people honors Me with their lips,
    But their heart is far away from Me.
    7 And in vain do they worship Me,
    Teaching as doctrines the commandments of men.
    8 Neglecting the commandment of God, you hold to the tradition of men.”
    9 He was also saying to them, “You are experts at setting aside the commandment of God in order to keep your tradition. 10 For Moses said, ‘Honor your father and your mother’; and, ‘The one who speaks evil of father or mother, is certainly to be put to death’; 11 but you say, ‘If a person says to his father or his mother, whatever I have that would help you is Corban (that is, given to God),’ 12 you no longer allow him to do anything for his father or his mother; 13 thereby invalidating the word of God by your tradition which you have handed down; and you do many things such as that.”
     
  15. pasifika

    pasifika Well-Known Member

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    What commandments that I broke if I love my neighbor? All commandments are sum up in this one commandment love one another...love doesn't have to write down on a list to follow but is a matter of conscience..as Paul stated in 1John " Anyone who knows the good that they ought to do and don't do it for that person is a sin..

    If you talking about the 7th day Sabbath commandment then you're mistaken, my Sabbath day is called "Today" Not the 7th day..Hebrews 4...
     
  16. pasifika

    pasifika Well-Known Member

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    Thanks Him, But the same day (7th day) God said that No one will into His rest..Hebrews 4
    So the Sabbath day for God's people is called "today" Not the "7th" (7th day is for the Lord)

    Do you know why the 7th day was blessed and sanctified right?
     
  17. Danthemailman

    Danthemailman Well-Known Member

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    To "keep the Sabbath" as it was required in the Old Testament under the Old Covenant would involve compliance with specific regulations (Exodus 16:23; 35:3; Leviticus 23:32; Jeremiah 17:21) that were strictly enforced.

    If Sabbath day observances are still required, so would the burnt offerings which went along with them (Leviticus 19:30; 23:2-3; Numbers 28:1-10; 29:39-40; I Chronicles. 23:30-31; II Chronicles 31:2-4; Isaiah 1:13). So no kindling a fire in any of your dwellings on the sabbath (Exodus 35:3). Every man must remain in his place on the sabbath (Exodus 16:29). No trading (Amos 8:5). No marketing (Nehemiah 10:31; 13:15,19).

    These were commanded by God to Israel (Exodus 35:1). If the seventh day Sabbath is still in affect, then why do not the Sabbatarians seek to obey ALL that the LORD commanded? How can a person keep a certain law when he keeps only part of it?

    If the Sabbath day laws were still in effect today, then according to Exodus 31:12-18; 35:1-3; and Numbers 15:32-36, anyone who profaned the Sabbath was put to death and any person who does any work on it, that person shall be cut off from his people.

    Who is going to enforce that? Since we do not live under a theocratic state as ancient Israel did under the Old Covenant, no Sabbatarian can live consistently under these Mosaic regulations, yet certain people continue to remain under the delusion that they will receive eternal life based on the merits of their best efforts to obey the 10 commandments (with a heavy emphasis on the 4th commandment) — “salvation by grace plus law, faith plus works.” (Galatians 1:6-9)
     
  18. pasifika

    pasifika Well-Known Member

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    Jews gather on the 7th day Sabbath to worship in their Synagogues Not any other day so does Paul who is a Jew...the Gentiles who heard Paul preaching in the Synagogue ask Paul to come back the next Sabbath to preach at the same Synagogue in which open on the 7th day...

    if the Gentiles invite Paul to preach at their house on any other day Paul will not hesitate to do it...

    If the 7th day Sabbath gathering is that important then it should enforce or reminded by the apostles to the Gentiles just how it was enforced and kept by Jews from the time of Moses...the old testament has many mentions of the 7th day Sabbath to keep but comes to NT there is None specific Command for Gentiles to do the same...
     
  19. BobRyan

    BobRyan Junior Member

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    No doubt. But "after the Jews leave" it was gentiles asking for more Gospel preaching "the next Sabbath"

    Acts 13:
    42 So when the Jews went out of the synagogue, the Gentiles begged that these words might be preached to them the next Sabbath. 43 Now when the congregation had broken up, many of the Jews and devout proselytes followed Paul and Barnabas, who, speaking to them, persuaded them to continue in the grace of God.

    44 On the next Sabbath almost the whole city came together to hear the word of God.


    Not "gentiles asked for more gospel preaching tomorrow - week-day-1, when supposedly Paul was meeting with people who had accepted gospel preaching"

    The NT writers do not mention "do not take God's name in vain" even ONCE.

    The NT writers INTRODUCE Christ as the Messiah and mention that - MANY times.

    The NT writers do NOT "introduce week day 1 - as the new day of weekly worship" not even ONE such "every week-day-1 meet for gospel preaching". Yet we have "every Sabbath" - Gospel preaching in Acts 18:4
     
  20. BobRyan

    BobRyan Junior Member

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    Adam and Eve kept it, no animal sacrifices.

    Even the Baptist Confession of Faith admits that the civil laws of the OT theocracy are no longer in effect without that theocracy

    Heb 10:4-12 is very clear that animal sacrifices end at the cross.
     
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