About Sabbath

[pasifika]

No doubt. But "after the Jews leave" it was gentiles asking for more Gospel preaching "the next Sabbath"

Acts 13:
42 So when the Jews went out of the synagogue, the Gentiles begged that these words might be preached to them the next Sabbath. 43 Now when the congregation had broken up, many of the Jews and devout proselytes followed Paul and Barnabas, who, speaking to them, persuaded them to continue in the grace of God.

44 On the next Sabbath almost the whole city came together to hear the word of God.


Not "gentiles asked for more gospel preaching tomorrow - week-day-1, when supposedly Paul was meeting with people who had accepted gospel preaching"



The NT writers do not mention "do not take God's name in vain" even ONCE.

The NT writers INTRODUCE Christ as the Messiah and mention that - MANY times.

The NT writers do NOT "introduce week day 1 - as the new day of weekly worship" not even ONE such "every week-day-1 meet for gospel preaching". Yet we have "every Sabbath" - Gospel preaching in Acts 18:4

Thanks Bob, but the Gentiles didn't ask Paul to preach the next day but the next Sabbath..bear in mind those (Jews& Gentiles converts to Judaism ) who ask Paul to come next Sabbath were already used to gather on the 7th day just like Paul so there is no need to change that..

But the day is not enforce to those who accepted the Gospel from paganism in which a day is not the main focus of the Gospel but to believe in the message and obey..

Also, if you believe in Jesus you won't take His name in vain..Matthew 28:19..Therefore go and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit...

 

[John Mullally]

Acts 15 does not mention Sabbath, does not mention

• "do not take God's name in vain"
  
• "Love God with all your heart"
• "Honor your parents"
  
• , does not say that what the Bible calls "the TEN Commandments" is now "downsized to NINE"
• , Does not say the Bible had been downsized to one paragraph for gentiles

The early Gentile conversions caught even Peter by surprise. Per the early portions of Acts 15, there was division as to whether the new Gentile Christians had to effectively become Jews - would they be required to follow some or all the prescribed Jewish Ceremonial laws. The Jerusalem Council addressed this topic. The resulting letter to the Gentiles (Acts 15:23-29) is obviously not exhaustive - it addresses the areas of controversy.

 

[ViaCrucis]

And don't use "if your conscience says to..." arguments, they are so shallow, and this is a subject that is directed connected to God and Jesus and defines if you go to hell or no, because even if you do every other thing correctly, if God's Truth is that no matter who you are you should follow Sabbath, then I would say it is a condemning subject.

Here is what the Apostolic Council of Jerusalem, the first Church council in the history of the Church, had to say about Gentile converts to Christianity:

"Then it seemed good to the apostles and the elders, with the whole church, to choose men from among them and send them to Antioch with Paul and Barnabas. They sent Judas called Barsabbas, and Silas, leading men among the brothers, with the following letter: 'The brothers, both the apostles and the elders, to the brothers who are of the Gentiles in Antioch and Syria and Cilicia, greetings. Since we have heard that some persons have gone out from us and troubled you with words, unsettling your minds, although we gave them no instructions, it has seemed good to us, having come to one accord, to choose men and send them to you with our beloved Barnabas and Paul, men who have risked their lives for the name of our Lord Jesus Christ. We have therefore sent Judas and Silas, who themselves will tell you the same things by word of mouth. For it has seemed good to the Holy Spirit and to us to lay on you no greater burden than these requirements: that you abstain from what has been sacrificed to idols, and from blood, and from what has been strangled, and from sexual immorality. If you keep yourselves from these, you will do well. Farewell.'" - Acts of the Apostles 15:22-29

Thus the following were the only stipulations placed upon Gentile converts, that they abstain from pagan religious practices, thus to abstain from food sacrificed to idols, consuming blood, meat of strangled animals, and prostitution. Pagan religious and temple rites in the ancient Greco-Roman world involved all these things. Both at temples and at home, slaughtering an animal as a sacrifice to the gods and then consuming it afterward was standard practice. Those converting from Paganism to Christianity were to be encouraged against these things.

However even these stipulations need to be read within the larger framework of apostolic teaching and practice. For example, here is what St. Paul has to say about the subject of food sacrificed to idols,

"Therefore, as to the eating of food offered to idols, we know that “an idol has no real existence,” and that “there is no God but one.” For although there may be so-called gods in heaven or on earth—as indeed there are many “gods” and many “lords”— yet for us there is one God, the Father, from whom are all things and for whom we exist, and one Lord, Jesus Christ, through whom are all things and through whom we exist.

However, not all possess this knowledge. But some, through former association with idols, eat food as really offered to an idol, and their conscience, being weak, is defiled. Food will not commend us to God. We are no worse off if we do not eat, and no better off if we do. But take care that this right of yours does not somehow become a stumbling block to the weak. For if anyone sees you who have knowledge eating in an idol's temple, will he not be encouraged, if his conscience is weak, to eat food offered to idols? And so by your knowledge this weak person is destroyed, the brother for whom Christ died. Thus, sinning against your brothers and wounding their conscience when it is weak, you sin against Christ. Therefore, if food makes my brother stumble, I will never eat meat, lest I make my brother stumble." - 1 Corinthians 8:4-13

The Apostolic Council judged that recent converts from Paganism to Christianity should abstain from food sacrificed to idols; not as a remnant of the old law given through Moses, or as some kind of purity law for Christians; but because as we see here in St. Paul's letter to the Corinthian Church, the problem is not the eating of food sacrificed to false gods--since idols are nothing at all, and so-called gods aren't gods at all. But rather because of the matter of conscience.

So, yes, such things really are matters of conscience. These things are expressly, explicitly stated in Scripture.

I may know that food sacrificed to idols is meaningless, and so I may eat and do so with a clean conscience before God, giving honor to God--because it's just regular food. The sacrifice to idols means nothing. But for those who have recently come away from Paganism, see "through former association with idols", then we may cause injury to the weaker brother or sister's conscience if we are careless in our freedom of conscience. Paul's counsel and instruction is careful, delicate, it's pastoral.

So the Apostolic Council established "no further burden" as it pertains to certain matters of Gentile conversion to Christianity, then these things. It's not about strict "law" upon such converts; but rather the gentle guidance of the Church for new converts, which we see St. Paul himself exercising in his capacity as apostle in his letters to the churches.

Had it been expected that Gentiles should be circumcised, observe the Sabbath, any of the Jewish feasts, follow kashrut, etc then certainly the Apostolic Council would have said so. But, on the contrary, the Council says nothing about these things, but explicitly states that Gentiles were not to be burdened with the rites and practices of Judaism. Indeed, earlier in Acts ch. 15 St. Peter addresses the presbyters of the Jerusalem Church and the other apostles gathered together there, "Now, therefore, why are you putting God to the test by placing a yoke on the neck of the disciples that neither our fathers nor we have been able to bear?" (Acts of the Apostles 15:10). This is an explicit statement that it was wrong to place the Torah upon Gentile converts. Thus the Council ruled to place no burden, no yolk, upon Gentile converts except these things to help guide new converts away from Paganism to a deeper Christian faith.

There exists no commandment from God for Christians to observe the Sabbath. Can one observe the Sabbath? Yes, but only as a choice of free conscience, not as a divine command from God to be obeyed.

"As for the one who is weak in faith, welcome him, but not to quarrel over opinions. One person believes he may eat anything, while the weak person eats only vegetables. Let not the one who eats despise the one who abstains, and let not the one who abstains pass judgment on the one who eats, for God has welcomed him. Who are you to pass judgment on the servant of another? It is before his own master that he stands or falls. And he will be upheld, for the Lord is able to make him stand.

One person esteems one day as better than another, while another esteems all days alike. Each one should be fully convinced in his own mind. The one who observes the day, observes it in honor of the Lord. The one who eats, eats in honor of the Lord, since he gives thanks to God, while the one who abstains, abstains in honor of the Lord and gives thanks to God." - Romans 14:1-6

And indeed, those who presume to judge others, placing the yolk of the Torah upon converts to Christianity are rebuked and condemned by the apostles,

"Therefore let no one pass judgment on you in questions of food and drink, or with regard to a festival or a new moon or a Sabbath. These are a shadow of the things to come, but the substance belongs to Christ. Let no one disqualify you, insisting on asceticism and worship of angels, going on in detail about visions, puffed up without reason by his sensuous mind, and not holding fast to the Head, from whom the whole body, nourished and knit together through its joints and ligaments, grows with a growth that is from God." - Colossians 2:16-19

"But when Cephas came to Antioch, I opposed him to his face, because he stood condemned. For before certain men came from James, he was eating with the Gentiles; but when they came he drew back and separated himself, fearing the circumcision party. And the rest of the Jews acted hypocritically along with him, so that even Barnabas was led astray by their hypocrisy. But when I saw that their conduct was not in step with the truth of the gospel, I said to Cephas before them all, 'If you, though a Jew, live like a Gentile and not like a Jew, how can you force the Gentiles to live like Jews?'" - Galatians 2:11-14

"O foolish Galatians! Who has bewitched you? It was before your eyes that Jesus Christ was publicly portrayed as crucified. Let me ask you only this: Did you receive the Spirit by works of the law or by hearing with faith? Are you so foolish? Having begun by the Spirit, are you now being perfected by the flesh? Did you suffer so many things in vain—if indeed it was in vain? Does he who supplies the Spirit to you and works miracles among you do so by works of the law, or by hearing with faith— just as Abraham “believed God, and it was counted to him as righteousness”?

Know then that it is those of faith who are the sons of Abraham. And the Scripture, foreseeing that God would justify the Gentiles by faith, preached the gospel beforehand to Abraham, saying, “In you shall all the nations be blessed.” So then, those who are of faith are blessed along with Abraham, the man of faith." - Galatians 3:1-9

There is no righteousness found in commandment keeping. There is only the righteousness of Jesus Christ which is through faith.

The burden of the Torah is not for us, it was given through Moses to point the way to Christ, as Paul says, like a harsh taskmaster which corrected us with many beatings until Christ came (Galatians 3:24). Paul calls the Torah a paidagogos. In the ancient Greco-Roman world a paidagogos was a slave given the task to rear children in the household, it was the paidagogos' job to discipline unruly children, and help teach them the basics. The Torah was harsh, because the children were disobedient, hostile, and violent; but the job of the paidagogos is done with. Israel has reached maturity from childhood to adulthood in Jesus Christ, who is the telos of the Torah and the Prophets--their end, goal, and the purpose for their existence, to lead to, point to, direct us toward the bigger, better, grander reality of Jesus Christ our Lord. And thus He says He did not come to abolish, but to fulfill. To make full all the righteousness required, by His own perfect righteous life, His death, and resurrection. That by His fullness we are the benefactors of His righteousness, which we have as grace and gift from God, through faith, by the word and power of the Gospel.

The Sabbath has nothing to do with the Gospel, and those who make the Sabbath part of the Gospel preach a false gospel, and therefore stand condemned, under anathema, by these words of the holy apostle,

"I am astonished that you are so quickly deserting him who called you in the grace of Christ and are turning to a different gospel— not that there is another one, but there are some who trouble you and want to distort the gospel of Christ. But even if we or an angel from heaven should preach to you a gospel contrary to the one we preached to you, let him be accursed. As we have said before, so now I say again: If anyone is preaching to you a gospel contrary to the one you received, let him be accursed." - Galatians 1:6-9

-CryptoLutheran

 

[pasifika]

Adam and Eve kept it, no animal sacrifices.

Even the Baptist Confession of Faith admits that the civil laws of the OT theocracy are no longer in effect without that theocracy

Heb 10:4-12 is very clear that animal sacrifices end at the cross.

It Also clear that the law and Prophets point to Christ..Luke 24:27..And beginning with Moses and All the Prophets, he explained to them what was said in all the Scriptures concerning HIMSELF..

 

[LoveGodsWord]

To "keep the Sabbath" as it was required in the Old Testament under the Old Covenant would involve compliance with specific regulations (Exodus 16:23; 35:3; Leviticus 23:32; Jeremiah 17:21) that were strictly enforced.

If Sabbath day observances are still required, so would the burnt offerings which went along with them (Leviticus 19:30; 23:2-3; Numbers 28:1-10; 29:39-40; I Chronicles. 23:30-31; II Chronicles 31:2-4; Isaiah 1:13). So no kindling a fire in any of your dwellings on the sabbath (Exodus 35:3). Every man must remain in his place on the sabbath (Exodus 16:29). No trading (Amos 8:5). No marketing (Nehemiah 10:31; 13:15,19).

These were commanded by God to Israel (Exodus 35:1). If the seventh day Sabbath is still in affect, then why do not the Sabbatarians seek to obey ALL that the LORD commanded? How can a person keep a certain law when he keeps only part of it?

If the Sabbath day laws were still in effect today, then according to Exodus 31:12-18; 35:1-3; and Numbers 15:32-36, anyone who profaned the Sabbath was put to death and any person who does any work on it, that person shall be cut off from his people.

Who is going to enforce that? Since we do not live under a theocratic state as ancient Israel did under the Old Covenant, no Sabbatarian can live consistently under these Mosaic regulations, yet certain people continue to remain under the delusion that they will receive eternal life based on the merits of their best efforts to obey the 10 commandments (with a heavy emphasis on the 4th commandment) — “salvation by grace plus law, faith plus works.” (Galatians 1:6-9)

This cut and paste is simply repetition of a longer post of yours that has been answered fully showing scripture contexts disregarded in post # 6 linked; post # 7 linked; post # 8 linked and post # 9 linked.

 

[Clare73]

Follow all the post in which was in the post you just responded and you will see it was.

My point made no reference to actual texts.

 

[Clare73]

.

 

[LoveGodsWord]

Here is what the Apostolic Council of Jerusalem, the first Church council in the history of the Church, had to say about Gentile converts to Christianity............. So, yes, such things really are matters of conscience. These things are expressly, explicitly stated in Scripture.

Your argument here is stating that Acts 15 is teaching that keeping God's 4th commandment which is one of God's 10 commandments are a matter of conscience? So in your view can all the other 10 commandment be kept now as a matter of conscience? Can we now according to you lie, steal. go and commit adultery or kill our fellow man, take God's name in vain or now worship other God's of which are also Gods' 10 commandments? I hope you can now see what your arguing here which is simply not biblical.

So the Apostolic Council established "no further burden" as it pertains to certain matters of Gentile conversion to Christianity, then these things. It's not about strict "law" upon such converts; but rather the gentle guidance of the Church for new converts, which we see St. Paul himself exercising in his capacity as apostle in his letters to the churches.

Had it been expected that Gentiles should be circumcised, observe the Sabbath, any of the Jewish feasts, follow kashrut, etc then certainly the Apostolic Council would have said so. But, on the contrary, the Council says nothing about these things, but explicitly states that Gentiles were not to be burdened with the rites and practices of Judaism. Indeed, earlier in Acts ch. 15 St. Peter addresses the presbyters of the Jerusalem Church and the other apostles gathered together there, "Now, therefore, why are you putting God to the test by placing a yoke on the neck of the disciples that neither our fathers nor we have been able to bear?" (Acts of the Apostles 15:10). This is an explicit statement that it was wrong to place the Torah upon Gentile converts. Thus the Council ruled to place no burden, no yolk, upon Gentile converts except these things to help guide new converts away from Paganism to a deeper Christian faith.

There exists no commandment from God for Christians to observe the Sabbath. Can one observe the Sabbath? Yes, but only as a choice of free conscience, not as a divine command from God to be obeyed.

"As for the one who is weak in faith, welcome him, but not to quarrel over opinions. One person believes he may eat anything, while the weak person eats only vegetables. Let not the one who eats despise the one who abstains, and let not the one who abstains pass judgment on the one who eats, for God has welcomed him. Who are you to pass judgment on the servant of another? It is before his own master that he stands or falls. And he will be upheld, for the Lord is able to make him stand.

One person esteems one day as better than another, while another esteems all days alike. Each one should be fully convinced in his own mind. The one who observes the day, observes it in honor of the Lord. The one who eats, eats in honor of the Lord, since he gives thanks to God, while the one who abstains, abstains in honor of the Lord and gives thanks to God." - Romans 14:1-6

And indeed, those who presume to judge others, placing the yolk of the Torah upon converts to Christianity are rebuked and condemned by the apostles,

"Therefore let no one pass judgment on you in questions of food and drink, or with regard to a festival or a new moon or a Sabbath. These are a shadow of the things to come, but the substance belongs to Christ. Let no one disqualify you, insisting on asceticism and worship of angels, going on in detail about visions, puffed up without reason by his sensuous mind, and not holding fast to the Head, from whom the whole body, nourished and knit together through its joints and ligaments, grows with a growth that is from God." - Colossians 2:16-19

"But when Cephas came to Antioch, I opposed him to his face, because he stood condemned. For before certain men came from James, he was eating with the Gentiles; but when they came he drew back and separated himself, fearing the circumcision party. And the rest of the Jews acted hypocritically along with him, so that even Barnabas was led astray by their hypocrisy. But when I saw that their conduct was not in step with the truth of the gospel, I said to Cephas before them all, 'If you, though a Jew, live like a Gentile and not like a Jew, how can you force the Gentiles to live like Jews?'" - Galatians 2:11-14

"O foolish Galatians! Who has bewitched you? It was before your eyes that Jesus Christ was publicly portrayed as crucified. Let me ask you only this: Did you receive the Spirit by works of the law or by hearing with faith? Are you so foolish? Having begun by the Spirit, are you now being perfected by the flesh? Did you suffer so many things in vain—if indeed it was in vain? Does he who supplies the Spirit to you and works miracles among you do so by works of the law, or by hearing with faith— just as Abraham “believed God, and it was counted to him as righteousness”?

Know then that it is those of faith who are the sons of Abraham. And the Scripture, foreseeing that God would justify the Gentiles by faith, preached the gospel beforehand to Abraham, saying, “In you shall all the nations be blessed.” So then, those who are of faith are blessed along with Abraham, the man of faith." - Galatians 3:1-9

There is no righteousness found in commandment keeping. There is only the righteousness of Jesus Christ which is through faith.

The burden of the Torah is not for us, it was given through Moses to point the way to Christ, as Paul says, like a harsh taskmaster which corrected us with many beatings until Christ came (Galatians 3:24). Paul calls the Torah a paidagogos. In the ancient Greco-Roman world a paidagogos was a slave given the task to rear children in the household, it was the paidagogos' job to discipline unruly children, and help teach them the basics. The Torah was harsh, because the children were disobedient, hostile, and violent; but the job of the paidagogos is done with. Israel has reached maturity from childhood to adulthood in Jesus Christ, who is the telos of the Torah and the Prophets--their end, goal, and the purpose for their existence, to lead to, point to, direct us toward the bigger, better, grander reality of Jesus Christ our Lord. And thus He says He did not come to abolish, but to fulfill. To make full all the righteousness required, by His own perfect righteous life, His death, and resurrection. That by His fullness we are the benefactors of His righteousness, which we have as grace and gift from God, through faith, by the word and power of the Gospel.

The Sabbath has nothing to do with the Gospel, and those who make the Sabbath part of the Gospel preach a false gospel, and therefore stand condemned, under anathema, by these words of the holy apostle,

"I am astonished that you are so quickly deserting him who called you in the grace of Christ and are turning to a different gospel— not that there is another one, but there are some who trouble you and want to distort the gospel of Christ. But even if we or an angel from heaven should preach to you a gospel contrary to the one we preached to you, let him be accursed. As we have said before, so now I say again: If anyone is preaching to you a gospel contrary to the one you received, let him be accursed." - Galatians 1:6-9-CryptoLutheran

Let's now look at what Acts 15 is really saying and the other scriptures you left out that do not support your view here that Acts 15 is saying that Gods' 10 commandments are not a requirement for Christian living for all believers....

WHAT IS THE QUESTION THAT ACTS 15 IS CONSIDERING?

ACTS 15:1-21

[1], And certain men who came down from Judea taught the brethren, and said, EXCEPT YOU BE CIRCUMCISED AFTER THE MANNER OF MOSES YOU CANNOT BE SAVED.

NOTE: ACTS 15:1 is the question that needs to be answered and the topic of conversation and CONTEXT of the chapter of ACTS 15. Here we have Jewish believers coming to Paul and Barnabas saying if the new GENTILES believers are not circumcised and made proselytes then they cannot be saved. This is the chapter context and issue of contention.

[2], When therefore Paul and Barnabas had no small dissension and dispute with them, THEY DETERMINED THAT PAUL AND BARNABAS AND CERTAIN OF THEM SHOULD GO UP TO JERUSALEM UNTO THE APOSTLES AND ELDERS ABOUT THIS QUESTION.

NOTE: ACTS 15:2 Which question? Weather your salvation depends on being CIRCUMCISED.

They then traveled to Jerusalem about this question to determine if new gentile believers needed to be CIRCUMCISED in order to be saved. Once they got to Jerusalem, the question was then asked and the discussion continued with the Pharisees stating their case first..

[5], But there rose up certain of the sect of the Pharisees who believed, saying, It is needful to circumcise them, and to command them to keep the law of Moses.

NOTE: KEEP in mind here the question was never over if gentile believers should obey God's 10 Commandments but to keep the Shadow laws of Moses, in this case CIRCUMCISION as a means of salvation. CIRCUMCISIONS is from the law of MOSES not God’s 10 Commandments written by God on two tables of stone.

[6], And the apostles and elders came together TO CONSIDER THIS MATTER.

NOTE: Again the topic of discussion and chapter CONTEXT that is being considered is the question stated in ACTS 15:1 which was IS CIRCUMCISION A REQUIREMENT OF SALVATION?

[7], And when there had been much disputing, Peter rose up, and said unto them, Men and brethren, you know how that a good while ago God made choice among us, that the Gentiles by my mouth should hear the word of the gospel, and believe.

[8], And God, who knows the hearts, bore them witness, giving them the Holy Spirit, even as he did unto us;

NOTE: After much discussion between the Apostles, Peter then rose up showing that God gave the gentile believers the Holy Spirit being UNCIRCUMCISED.

[9], And put no difference between us and them, purifying their hearts by faith.
[10], Now therefore why test God, to put a yoke upon the neck of the disciples, which neither our fathers nor we were able to bear?
[11], But we believe that through the grace of the Lord Jesus Christ we shall be saved, even as they.

NOTE: They came to the conclusion then that salvation is not by being circumcised but be what circumcision pointed to. A new heart by faith. This is made plain latter in other scripture written by PAUL here...

ROMANS 2:25-29 [25] For circumcision verily profits, if you keep the law: but if you are a breaker of the law, your circumcision is made uncircumcision. [26], Therefore if the uncircumcision keeps the righteousness of the law, shall not his uncircumcision be counted for circumcision? [27], And shall not uncircumcision which is by nature, if it fulfils the law, judge you, who by the letter and circumcision do transgress the law? [28], FOR HE IS NOT A JEW, WHO IS ONE; NEITHER IS THAT CIRCUMCISION, WHICH IS OF THE OUTWARD FLESH: [29], BUT HE IS A JEW WHICH IS ONE INWARDLY; AND CIRCUMCISION IS THAT OF THE HEART, IN THE SPIRIT AND NOT IN THE LETTER; WHOSE PRAISE IS NOT OF MEN BUT OF GOD.

If ACTS 15 was talking about the 10 Commandments then Paul's writings to the Corinthian believers do not make any sense and has Paul in contradiction to your interpretation when he says to the Corinthian believers.

1 CORINTHIANS 7 [19] CIRCUMCISION IS NOTHING, AND UNCIRCUMCISION IS NOTHING, BUT THE KEEPING OF THE COMMANDMENTS OF GOD.

I believe Paul makes it very clear in 1 Corinthians 7:19 that Acts 15 was never over the topic are the 10 commandments a requirement for Christian living. The scripture above is a contradiction of how some interpret the outcome of ACTS 15. You do not believe Dan, that we are now free to break any of God's 10 Commandments now do you?

[12], Then all the multitude kept silence, and listened to Barnabas and Paul declaring what miracles and wonders God had done among the Gentiles by them.
[13], And after they had held their peace, James answered, saying, Men and brethren, hearken unto me:
[14], Simeon has declared how God at the first did visit the Gentiles, to take out of them a people for his name.
[15], And to this agree the words of the prophets; as it is written,
[16], After this I will return, and will build again the tabernacle of David, which is fallen down; and I will build again the ruins thereof, and I will set it up:
[17], That the rest of men might seek after the Lord, and all the Gentiles, upon whom my name is called, says the Lord, who does all these things.
[18], Known unto God are all his works from the beginning of the world.

[19], THEREFORE MY JUDGMENT IS THAT WE TROUBLE NOT THEM WHO FROM THE GENTILES ARE TURNED TO GOD:
[20], BUT WRITE UNTO THEM THAT THEY ABSTAIN FROM THE DEFILEMENT OF IDOLS, FORNICATION AND THINGS STRANGLED AND FROM BLOOD.

NOTE: JAMES conclusion is that new Gentile believers should not be troubled with CIRCUMCISION as a requirement of salvation which was the matter being considered and the question being discussion as shown in *ACTS 15:1-2; ACTS 15:6 but asks them to abstain from idols, fornication and from things strangled and from blood.

[21], FOR MOSES OF OLD TIME HAS IN EVERY CITY THEM THAT PREACH HIM, BEING READ IN THE SYNAGOGUES EVERY SABBATH.

NOTE: The reason why JAMES sends this letter to the new Gentile believers is that they would continue learning God's WORD EVERY SABBATH.

……………

CONCLUSION So the conclusion of the matter with CONTEXT added back in is fould in v19-20 We are not to trouble the new gentile believers with CIRCUMCISION as a means of salvation. They are new converts that will learn more about GOD'S WORD when? EVERY SABBATH. In the meantime you should abstain from anything offered to idols, and from blood, and from things strangled, and from fornication.

NOPE nothing written about the 10 Commandments being abolished in this chapter. Here is what PAUL says of the matter here...

1 CORINTHIANS 7 [19] CIRCUMCISION IS NOTHING, AND UNCIRCUMCISION IS NOTHING, BUT THE KEEPING OF THE COMMANDMENTS OF GOD.

ACTS 15 is about “CIRCUMCISION” as a requirement for salvation and is not even considering Gods 10 Commandments. “Circumcision” is one of the shadow laws of the MOSAIC BOOK of the COVENANT.

Hope this is helpful.

 

[tall73]

Thanks Bob, but the Gentiles didn't ask Paul to preach the next day but the next Sabbath..bear in mind those (Jews& Gentiles converts to Judaism ) who ask Paul to come next Sabbath were already used to gather on the 7th day just like Paul so there is no need to change that..

And once they were kicked out of the synagogue in Ephesus they met daily:

Acts 19:8 And he went into the synagogue and spoke boldly for three months, reasoning and persuading concerning the things of the kingdom of God. 9 But when some were hardened and did not believe, but spoke evil of the Way before the multitude, he departed from them and withdrew the disciples, reasoning daily in the school of Tyrannus. 10 And this continued for two years, so that all who dwelt in Asia heard the word of the Lord Jesus, both Jews and Greeks.

 

[tall73]

[21], FOR MOSES OF OLD TIME HAS IN EVERY CITY THEM THAT PREACH HIM, BEING READ IN THE SYNAGOGUES EVERY SABBATH.

NOTE: The reason why JAMES sends this letter to the new Gentile believers is that they would continue learning God's WORD EVERY SABBATH.

The letter that actually went to the churches does not say anything about the sabbath. It does say they didn't send the people who were demanding the Gentiles keep the law of Moses.

3 They wrote this letter by them:

The apostles, the elders, and the brethren,

To the brethren who are of the Gentiles in Antioch, Syria, and Cilicia:

Greetings.

24 Since we have heard that some who went out from us have troubled you with words, unsettling your souls, saying, “You must be circumcised and keep the law”—to whom we gave no such commandment— 25 it seemed good to us, being assembled with one accord, to send chosen men to you with our beloved Barnabas and Paul, 26 men who have risked their lives for the name of our Lord Jesus Christ. 27 We have therefore sent Judas and Silas, who will also report the same things by word of mouth. 28 For it seemed good to the Holy Spirit, and to us, to lay upon you no greater burden than these necessary things: 29 that you abstain from things offered to idols, from blood, from things strangled, and from sexual immorality. If you keep yourselves from these, you will do well.

Farewell.

 

[LoveGodsWord]

The letter that actually went to the churches does not say anything about the sabbath. It does say they didn't send the people who were demanding the Gentiles keep the law of Moses.
mes.


3 They wrote this letter by them:

The apostles, the elders, and the brethren,

To the brethren who are of the Gentiles in Antioch, Syria, and Cilicia:

Greetings.

24 Since we have heard that some who went out from us have troubled you with words, unsettling your souls, saying, “You must be circumcised and keep the law”—to whom we gave no such commandment— 25 it seemed good to us, being assembled with one accord, to send chosen men to you with our beloved Barnabas and Paul, 26 men who have risked their lives for the name of our Lord Jesus Christ. 27 We have therefore sent Judas and Silas, who will also report the same things by word of mouth. 28 For it seemed good to the Holy Spirit, and to us, to lay upon you no greater burden than these necessary things: 29 that you abstain from things offered to idols, from blood, from things strangled, and from sexual immorality. If you keep yourselves from these, you will do well.

Farewell.

No one said Acts of the Apostles 15:21 [21], FOR MOSES OF OLD TIME HAS IN EVERY CITY THEM THAT PREACH HIM, BEING READ IN THE SYNAGOGUES EVERY SABBATH was in the letter to the Gentiles. The reason for the decision and the letter however was that the new Gentile believers would continue learning the Word of God every Sabbath.

 

[tall73]

No one said Acts of the Apostles 15:21 [21], FOR MOSES OF OLD TIME HAS IN EVERY CITY THEM THAT PREACH HIM, BEING READ IN THE SYNAGOGUES EVERY SABBATH was in the letter to the Gentiles. The reason for the decision and the letter however was that the new Gentile believers would continue learning the Word of God every Sabbath.

No one told them that. They just received the letter. They were told they didn't have to keep the law of Moses.

Wherever people could they kept meeting in the synagogues because they read the Scriptures there. So in many places they continued. When they could not continue they met in other situations, such as in a houses, or as I quoted in the other post, in the school of Tyrannus, daily.

 

[LoveGodsWord]

No one told them that. They just received the letter. They were told they didn't have to keep the law of Moses.

Wherever people could they kept meeting in the synagogues because they read the Scriptures there. So in many places they continued. When they could not continue they met in other situations, such as in a houses, or as I quoted in the other post, in the school of Tyrannus, daily.

Your making claims here your not able to prove. To claim that Acts 15 is talking about Gods' 10 commandments not being a requirement for Christian gentile believers is not biblical as the context shows that the subject matter is over the question "Is circumcision a requirement for salvation" in Acts of the Apostles 15:1-2 and that this was the question Paul and Barnabas when to Jerusalem to discuss *Acts of the Apostles 15:6. It was not over the question is God's 10 commandments a requirement for Christian living. That interpretation has Paul contradicting himself when he says some time latter to the Corinthian believers in 1 Corinthian 7:19 CIRCUMCISION IS NOTHING AND UNCIRCUMCISION IS NOTHING BUT THE KEEPING OF THE COMMANDMENTS OF GOD. Your seriously not arguing now that Gentiles are now free to lie, steal, murder, covet, use God's name in vain, and worship other God's now are you? What your proposing is not biblical and is in conflict with pretty much all God's Word. Your interpretation here of Acts of the Apostles 15 has Paul contradicting himself.

 

[tall73]

Your making claims here your not able to prove. To claim that Acts 15 is talking about Gods' 10 commandments is not a requirement for Christian living is not biblical as the context shows that the subject matter is over the question "Is circumcision a requirement for salvation" in Acts of the Apostles 15:1-2 and that this was the question Paul and Barnabas when to Jerusalem to discuss *Acts of the Apostles 15:6. It was not over the question is God's 10 commandments a requirement for Christian living.

When the council actually met there was more to it than circumcision:

5 But some of the sect of the Pharisees who believed rose up, saying, “It is necessary to circumcise them, and to command them to keep the law of Moses.” 6 Now the apostles and elders came together to consider this matter.

My actual claim was that the letter said nothing about the Sabbath. I quoted the whole letter. It said nothing about the Sabbath.

It did say:

24 Since we have heard that some who went out from us have troubled you with words, unsettling your souls, saying, “You must be circumcised and keep the law”—to whom we gave no such commandment

That interpretation has Paul contradicting himself when he says some time latter to the Corinthian believers in 1 Corinthian 7:19 CIRCUMCISION IS NOTHING AND UNCIRCUMCISION IS NOTHING BUT THE KEEPING OF THE COMMANDMENTS OF GOD. Your seriously not arguing now that Gentiles are now free to lie, steal, murder, covet, use God's name in vain, and worship other God's now are you? What your proposing is not biblical and is in conflict with pretty much all God's Word.

No one said Gentiles were not under moral requirements.

But the Sabbath was certainly ceremonial, a sign with Israel, an appointed time, and involved sacrifices.

Exodus 31:16 Therefore the children of Israel shall keep the Sabbath, to observe the Sabbath throughout their generations as a perpetual covenant. 17 It is a sign between Me and the children of Israel forever; for in six days the Lord made the heavens and the earth, and on the seventh day He rested and was refreshed.’ ”

Deuteronomy 5:15 And remember that you were a slave in the land of Egypt, and the Lord your God brought you out from there by a mighty hand and by an outstretched arm; therefore the Lord your God commanded you to keep the Sabbath day.

The Jewish believers kept right on keeping it, as they did the other appointed times.

 

[tall73]

Adam and Eve kept it

You have no text that says that. You have no text that says any human kept it until Exodus 16, and it had to be explained.

It is said to be a sign with Israel.

Exodus was written after Sinai because it recorded the words at Sinai.

But Genesis was likely also written after Sinai because they are one book and it continues the narrative.

It states God ceased His creative work.

And it says He sanctified the day.

And we see when He did sanctify it, when He gave it to Israel as a sign, of creation, of sanctification, and of release from Egypt. And He introduced it in chapter 16 as part of the manna test.

 

[prodromos]

Your seriously not arguing now that Gentiles are now free to lie, steal, murder, covet, use God's name in vain, and worship other God's now are you?

He is not arguing any such thing. All the above is covered by the commands to love God with all your heart, soul, mind and strength, and to love your neighbour as yourself.

What your proposing is not biblical and is in conflict with pretty much all God's Word.

This is your strawman, and not what he is proposing.

 

[tall73]

He is not arguing any such thing. All the above is covered by the commands to love God with all your heart, soul, mind and strength, and to love your neighbour as yourself.

This is your strawman, and not what he is proposing.

I would say that the two laws are the basis of the whole law as Jesus says the whole law hangs on them. But Gentiles were not under the whole law, as the council makes clear. They certainly were under moral commands, both in the ten commandments and in other passages of the law. But that did not include various ceremonial laws.

Adventists largely agree with that but say the Sabbath is "moral" because it is in the ten.

But by every measure it is ceremonial--a sign with Israel, an appointed time, not a moral principle, and it had attendant sacrifices.

Now if God commands anyone to do anything it is moral for them. But the whole point of not burdening the Gentiles with the entire law was so that outreach would not be hindered. Circumcision and keeping various ceremonies was not needed for faith in Christ, and would make it harder for those turning to the faith.

And at the same time if the Jewish believers did not keep the law it would hurt their outreach to other Jews. So they were zealous for the law per Acts 21.

 

[pasifika]

And once they were kicked out of the synagogue in Ephesus they met daily:

Acts 19:8 And he went into the synagogue and spoke boldly for three months, reasoning and persuading concerning the things of the kingdom of God. 9 But when some were hardened and did not believe, but spoke evil of the Way before the multitude, he departed from them and withdrew the disciples, reasoning daily in the school of Tyrannus. 10 And this continued for two years, so that all who dwelt in Asia heard the word of the Lord Jesus, both Jews and Greeks.

Yes agreed! And some met at their own places..

 

[tall73]

ok so that is "instructive"

You never did clarify your point here. But I greet a lot of folks I knew in the early days of the forums. I have done the same with DarrylFawcet, and mmparksbud, and Mankin, and Woobadooba, or any of the folks who dropped by the Seventh-day Adventist forum in its early days.

The poster I greeted here actually was around before there was an Adventist section if I recall correctly. I just saw his posts occasionally. I think he may have been a former some time before I was. However, as strange as it may seem to some, I liked the Adventist church, I liked the people of the Adventist church, and while it was hard to leave, and to leave the Adventist forum on CF, I still remember the people there fondly.

I don't agree with all of their doctrine at this time, but Reddogs, EastcoastRemnant, TrustandObey, OntheDL and many others from that time are all very sincere and dedicated folks. And if they were to turn up I would greet them.

 

[LoveGodsWord]

When the council actually met there was more to it than circumcision:

5 But some of the sect of the Pharisees who believed rose up, saying, “It is necessary to circumcise them, and to command them to keep the law of Moses.” 6 Now the apostles and elders came together to consider this matter.

No. The question was never over the question are gentile believers required to obey God's 10 Commandments but to keep the "shadow laws" of Moses, in this case CIRCUMCISION as a means of salvation. CIRCUMCISIONS is from the law of MOSES. No where in Acts 15 does it discuss anywhere are Gods' 10 commandments a requirement for Christian living.

My actual claim was that the letter said nothing about the Sabbath. I quoted the whole letter. It said nothing about the Sabbath.

It did say:

24 Since we have heard that some who went out from us have troubled you with words, unsettling your souls, saying, “You must be circumcised and keep the law”—to whom we gave no such commandment

My claim was that the letter was written and the decision made based on the understanding that God's Word would be taught every Sabbath and that the question being answered here was not are God's 10 commandments are requirement for Christian living but is "CIRCUMCISION" a requirement for salvation. The answer was no circumcision is not a requirement for salvation.

[19], THEREFORE MY JUDGMENT IS THAT WE TROUBLE NOT THEM WHO FROM THE GENTILES ARE TURNED TO GOD:
[20], BUT WRITE UNTO THEM THAT THEY ABSTAIN FROM THE DEFILEMENT OF IDOLS, FORNICATION AND THINGS STRANGLED AND FROM BLOOD.

NOTE: JAMES conclusion is that new Gentile believers should not be troubled with CIRCUMCISION as a requirement of salvation which was the matter being considered and the question being discussion as shown in *ACTS 15:1-2; ACTS 15:6 but asks them to abstain from idols, fornication and from things strangled and from blood.

[21], FOR MOSES OF OLD TIME HAS IN EVERY CITY THEM THAT PREACH HIM, BEING READ IN THE SYNAGOGUES EVERY SABBATH.

It does not state in the scriptures that the v21 was not included in the letter. Even if it was not the reason for the decision was that God's Word would be taught every Sabbath.

No one said Gentiles were not under moral requirements.

But the Sabbath was certainly ceremonial, a sign with Israel, an appointed time, and involved sacrifices.

Exodus 31:16 Therefore the children of Israel shall keep the Sabbath, to observe the Sabbath throughout their generations as a perpetual covenant. 17 It is a sign between Me and the children of Israel forever; for in six days the Lord made the heavens and the earth, and on the seventh day He rested and was refreshed.’ ”

The Jewish believers kept right on keeping it, as they did the other appointed times.

All of God's 10 commandments are moral laws and our duty of love to God and our fellow man and how we love God and our fellow man so are all moral laws or right behavior towards God and man. God's 4th commandment is not a ceremonial law it is a moral law of right doing and duty of love to God to remember that God created all things and a day of rest on the seventh day of the week where we are to celebrate God as the creator of Heaven and Earth.

We have had this discussion already in regards to who God's ISRAEL is in the new covenant and I thought we were in agreement here already. God's ISRAEL in the new covenant are no longer those born of the flesh but those who are now Born of the Spirit to believe and follow God's Word *Romans 9:6-8; Romans 2:28-29; Galatians 3:29-29 and the Sabbath is indeed a sign to the people of God that he is our God and sanctifies His people.

Therefore God's Word is for God's ISRAEL who are now in the new covenant all those who believe and follow God's Word. Gentiles are now grafted in *Romans 11:13-27. If we are not a part of God's ISRAEL according to the scriptures we have no part in Gods' new covenant promise as the new covenant promises are for God's ISRAEL *Hebrews 8:10-12 from Jeremiah 31:31-34 and Ezekiel 36:24-27 which is in regards to obedience to God's law not breaking it. The Sabbath of course being a sign we are the people of God and God's true ISRAEL. The Sabbath of course being an everlasting covenant (Exodus 31:16).

Hope this is helpful.