fatherforgivethem

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I'm a new Christian. There is 5 months or something since I started 'truly' following Jesus and God, obeying Him, learning, etc. Everything is going well, I'm learning so much. But now, looks like everything is running out of my control, I don't know what to do or to follow anymore, if I should do X or no, if I should follow Y or no.
Only one thing remains clear to me: I believe in Jesus, God, Holy Spirit and Bible.

There is many things right now I don't know what to follow or do. But in this thread, I wanna focus in just one of them: the Sabbath / the 4th commandment. It is making me desperate, overthink over and over and get worried so often.


What should I do?

I have already read the Bible arguments from SDA and they look really good. But I also read the Bible arguments from people that do not follow the Sabbath and they also look really good.
Since both really look good, I thought that the Bible is contradicting itself, but I truly believe in the Bible, I just don't know what to follow.




Arguments from SDA:
1-
The 4th commandment that God gave to Moses
2- Matthew 17:3 - I don't know exactly if this is an argument, but I saw some using it.
3- Mark 7:6-13
4- Luke 16:31
5- Deuteronomy 8:11


Arguments that don't think Christians need to follow Sabbath:
1-
Romans 14:5,6
2- Galatians 5:2-8
3- Galatians 4:9-11
4- Colossians 2:14-17



I am personally more inclined to the non-Sabbath verses, because they look more solid and direct on what message/meaning they are trying to get across and it is also aiming for Christians that are not Jewish, but the SDA arguments are also good.

Please, don't use articles and texts that are not from the Bible to make an argument.
And don't use "if your conscience says to..." arguments, they are so shallow, and this is a subject that is directed connected to God and Jesus and defines if you go to hell or no, because even if you do every other thing correctly, if God's Truth is that no matter who you are you should follow Sabbath, then I would say it is a condemning subject.
 

LoveGodsWord

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I'm a new Christian. There is 5 months or something since I started 'truly' following Jesus and God, obeying Him, learning, etc. Everything is going well, I'm learning so much. But now, looks like everything is running out of my control, I don't know what to do or to follow anymore, if I should do X or no, if I should follow Y or no.
Only one thing remains clear to me: I believe in Jesus, God, Holy Spirit and Bible.

There is many things right now I don't know what to follow or do. But in this thread, I wanna focus in just one of them: the Sabbath / the 4th commandment. It is making me desperate, overthink over and over and get worried so often.


What should I do?

I have already read the Bible arguments from SDA and they look really good. But I also read the Bible arguments from people that do not follow the Sabbath and they also look really good.
Since both really look good, I started thiking that the Bible is contradicting itself, but I truly believe in the Bible, I just don't know what to follow.




Arguments from SDA:
1-
The 4th commandment that God gave to Moses
2- Matthew 17:3 - I don't know exactly if this is an argument, but I saw some using it.
3- Mark 7:6-13
4- Luke 16:31
5- Deuteronomy 8:11


Arguments that don't think Christians need to follow Sabbath:
1-
Romans 14:5,6
2- Galatians 5:2-8
3- Galatians 4:9-11
4- Colossians 2:14-17



I am personally more inclined to the non-Sabbath verses, because they look more solid and direct on what message/meaning they are trying to get across and it is also aiming for Christians that are not Jewish, but the SDA arguments are also good.

Please, don't use articles and texts that are not from the Bible to make an argument.
And don't use "if your conscience says to..." arguments, they are so shallow, and this is a subject that is directed connected to God and Jesus and defines if you go to hell or no, because even if you do every other thing correctly, if God's Truth is that no matter who you are you should follow Sabbath, then I would say it is a condemning subject.

It seems you do not know the Sabbath arguments at all. That is ok though as we all have to start somewhere. You will not find the truth of God's Word either by trying to find it through the teachings of men. Why not claim God's promises to you and ask God and seek him for a knowledge of his truth through His Word? If you truly want to know you can ask God claiming his promises here *John 16:13; John 14:26; John 8:31-32; 1 John 2:27; Hebrews 8:11.
 
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ewq1938

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Arguments from SDA:
1-
The 4th commandment that God gave to Moses
2- Matthew 17:3 - I don't know exactly if this is an argument, but I saw some using it.
3- Mark 7:6-13
4- Luke 16:31
5- Deuteronomy 8:11

All these come from a time when the old covenant was still in effect. That's why they are poor evidence.


Arguments that don't think Christians need to follow Sabbath:
1-
Romans 14:5,6
2- Galatians 5:2-8
3- Galatians 4:9-11
4- Colossians 2:14-17

All all these come from a time when the new covenant was in effect. No one is commanded to keep a Saturday Sabbath or any certain day where you don't work etc.
 
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LoveGodsWord

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ACCORDING TO THE SCRIPTURES

God's 4th commandment is one of God's 10 commandments *Exodus 20:8-11 that give us a knowledge of what sin is when broken *Romans 3:20; Romans 7:7; 1 John 3:4 and righteousness when obeyed *Psalms 119:172. According to James if we break anyone of God's 10 commandments we stand guilty before God of sin in James 2:10-11. This of course includes God's 4th commandment Sabbath which is one of God's 10 commandments.

According to the scriptures we are saved by grace through faith and not of ourselves it is a gift of God and not of works lest any man should boast *Ephesians 2:8-9, but Gods grace is so we can be obedient to the faith according to Paul in Romans 1:5. Obedience to God's Law however is not how we are saved it is the fruit of faith of one that is already been given Gods promise of salvation and the fruit of God's work in us *Philippians 2:13 as we believe and follow his word *John 10:26-27.

If our faith has no fruit however according to James it is dead *James 2:18-20; 26 and according to Jesus our tree will be cast down and thrown into the fire *Matthew 3:10; 7:19-20; 13:49-50; Hebrews 10:26-27. Therefore genuine faith does not abolish God's law like some people teach but God's law is established in the heart through the Spirit as we have faith in God's promises *Romans 3:31; 2 Peter 1:3-4; 1 John 5:2-4; Romans 8:4; 1 John 2:3-4. This is God's new covenant promise to all those who believe and follow Gods' Word *Hebrews 8:10-12.

According to the scriptures, sin in defined as breaking anyone of God's 10 commandments and not believing and following God's Word) and is the difference between the children of God and the children of the devil and why we need to be born again to walk in God's Spirit *1 John 3:6-10; 1 John 2:3-4; Galatians 5:16; Revelation 12:17; Revelation 14:12; Revelation 22:14.

We need to be careful that we do not harden our hearts to hearing and seeing God's Word like those did who followed God in the wilderness. For the gospel was preached to them as well as us but the word preached did not profit them, not being mixed with faith in them that heard it. For we which have believed do enter into rest, as he said, As I have sworn in my wrath, if they shall enter into my rest: although the works were finished from the foundation of the world. For he spake in a certain place of the seventh day on this wise, And God did rest the seventh day from all his works (Hebrews 4:3-4) Therefore according to Paul it remains for the people of God to keep the Sabbath *Hebrews 4:9.

There is not one scripture in all of God's Word that says God's 4th commandment is now abolished and we are now commanded to keep Sunday as a Holy day of rest. This is a man-made teaching and tradition that has led many to break Gods' 4th commandment. According to Jesus if we follow man-made teachings and traditions that break the commandments of God we are not worshiping God in Matthew 15:3-9. So the question we should all be asking ourselves is who do we believe and follow God or man?

According to the scriptures only Gods Word is true and we should believe and follow them in Romans 3:4 and Acts of the Apostles 5:29. Gods sheep hear His Voice (the Word) those who do not hear do not follow because they are not His sheep according to Jesus in John 10:26-27.

May God bless you as you seek Him through His Word.
 
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Danthemailman

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All these come from a time when the old covenant was still in effect. That's why they are poor evidence.

All all these come from a time when the new covenant was in effect. No one is commanded to keep a Saturday Sabbath or any certain day where you don't work etc.
Amen! Sabbath keeping with all it's rules and regulations, was part of a covenant with Israel that is not binding on Christians under the new covenant.

*Colossians 2:16 - Therefore no one is to act as your judge in regard to food or drink or in respect to a festival or a new moon or a Sabbath day 17 things which are a mere shadow of what is to come; but the substance belongs to Christ.

Even when Sabbatarians set out to keep the Sabbath day today, are they truly "keeping the Sabbath?" To "keep the Sabbath" as it was required in the Old Testament under the old covenant would involve compliance with specific regulations (Exodus 16:23; 35:3; Leviticus 23:32; Jeremiah 17:21) that were strictly enforced.

If Sabbath day observances are still required, so would the burnt offerings which went along with them (Leviticus 19:30; 23:2-3; Numbers 28:1-10; 29:39-40; I Chronicles. 23:30-31; II Chronicles 31:2-4; Isaiah 1:13). So no kindling a fire in any of your dwellings on the sabbath (Exodus 35:3). Every man must remain in his place on the sabbath (Exodus 16:29). No trading (Amos 8:5). No marketing (Nehemiah 10:31; 13:15,19). These were commanded by God to Israel (Exodus 35:1).

If the seventh day Sabbath is still in affect, then why do not the Sabbatarians seek to obey ALL that the LORD commanded? How can someone keep a certain law when he keeps only part of it? If keeping the Sabbath day is still in effect today, then according to Exodus 31:12-18; 35:1-3; and Numbers 15:32-36, anyone who profaned the Sabbath was put to death and any person who does any work on it, that person shall be cut off from his people.

Who is going to enforce that? Since we do not live under a theocratic state as ancient Israel did under the old covenant, no Sabbatarian can live consistently under these Mosaic regulations.

God's word makes it clear that Sabbath observance was a sign between God and Israel: "The Israelites are to observe the Sabbath, celebrating it for the generations to come as a lasting covenant. It will be a sign between me and the Israelites forever, for in six days the Lord made the heavens and the earth, and on the seventh day he abstained from work and rested." (Exodus 31:16-17). Now although God's rest on the seventh day (Genesis 2:3) did foreshadow a future Sabbath law, there is no Biblical record of the Sabbath before the children of Israel left the land of Egypt. *Nowhere in Scripture is there any hint that Sabbath keeping was practiced from Adam to Moses.

The Sabbath was not given to all the nations, but to the nation of Israel. Deuteronomy 5:2 - The Lord our God made a covenant with us in Horeb. 3 The Lord did not make this covenant with our fathers, but with us, those who are here today, all of us who are alive.

Nehemiah 9:13 - Then You came down on Mount Sinai, And spoke with them from heaven; You gave them just ordinances and true laws, Good statutes and commandments. 14 So You made known to them Your holy sabbath, And laid down for them commandments, statutes and law, Through Your servant Moses.

In Deuteronomy 5, Moses restates the Ten Commandments to the next generation of Israelites. Here, after commanding Sabbath observance in verses 12–14, Moses gives the reason the Sabbath was given to the nation Israel: Remember that you were slaves in Egypt and that the Lord your God brought you out of there with a mighty hand and an outstretched arm. Therefore the Lord your God has commanded you to observe the Sabbath day. (Deuteronomy 5:15).
 
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LoveGodsWord

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Amen! Sabbath keeping with all it's rules and regulations, was part of a covenant with Israel that is not binding on Christians under the new covenant.
According to the new covenant God’s Israel are no longer those who are born of the flesh but those who are born of the Spirit through faith in God’s Word *Romans 3:31; Romans 9:6-8; Galatians 3:28-29; Romans 2:28-29; according to the promise of Gods’ new covenant promise to God’s true Israel as described by Paul in Hebrews 8:10-12 from Jeremiah 31:31-34 and Ezekiel 36:24-27. God’s Israel in the new covenant therefore are no longer those in the flesh but all those who believe and follow God’s Word being now made free to walk in His Spirit *John 6:63; Galatians 5:16; Romans 8:1-4.

According to the scriptures a Jew is now not one outwardly in the flesh but one inwardly through the Spirit *Romans 2:28-29 and if we be Christs through faith then we are Abraham’s seed and heirs according to the promise *Romans 9:6-8. This is because according to the scriptures, a true Jew is not one outwardly but one that has been changes inwardly because circumcision is not of the flesh but of the Spirit and not of the letter according to Paul in Romans 3:28-29. So there is no more Jewish or gentile believers in the new covenant as we are all one now in Christ (Romans 10:11-13; Colossians 3:11; Ephesians 2:11-13).

According to God’s Word if we are not a part of God’s ISRAEL according to the new covenant scriptures we have no part in Gods’ new covenant promise *Hebrews 8:10-12. Gentile believers are not grafted in (Romans 11:13-27) in place of Jewish unbelievers who are still in the flesh and not of the Spirit. Therefore God’s Israel are all those who believe and follow God’s Word in the new covenant which makes every Word of God including God’s 10 commandments and God’s “seventh day Sabbath” of the 4th commandment a requirement for Christian living as it is God’s Word and those who are of God (ISRAEL) believe and follow God’s Word through faith because they love God according to Jesus in Matthew 22:26-40; John 14:15; John 15:10; Paul in Romans 13:8-10; James in James 2:8-12 and John in 1 John 5:2-4.

more to come...
 
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LoveGodsWord

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Colossians 2:16 - Therefore no one is to act as your judge in regard to food or drink or in respect to a festival or a new moon or a Sabbath day 17 things which are a mere shadow of what is to come; but the substance belongs to Christ.

The context of Colossians 2:16 is Colossians 2:11-15 which is discussing the “shadow laws of “circumcision” and baptism which in the new covenant are physical signs of a new heart to love and being dead to sin and alive to Christ (see Hebrews 8:10-12; Romans 2:28-29; 1 Corinthians 7:19; Romans 6:1-23).

Colossians 2:14 continues the discussion saying “Blotting out the handwriting of ordinances that was against us, which was contrary to us, and took it out of the way, nailing it to his cross.” The hand-writing in ordinances is not a reference to God’s 10 commandments but the laws for remission of sins and the penalty for sins from the Mosaic “shadow laws” of the old covenant that we discussed earlier that are now fulfilled in the “body of Christ” *Colossians 2:17 (e.g. Levitical Priesthood, the earthly Sanctuary service, the animal sacrifices and sin offerings, circumcision and the annual Feast days).

For your interest the Greek words used for the hand-writing in “ordinances” is to “civil, ceremonial and ecclesiastical laws not Gods’ 10 commandments. As the Greek words used here is δόγμα (dogma).

Hebrew and Greek Dictionaries w/TVM, Strong - G1378
δόγμα (dógma | dog'-mah) Derivation: from the base of G1380;
Strong's: a law that is civil, ceremonial or ecclesiastical
KJV: —decree, ordinance.

The Sabbath and God’s 10 commandments are not civil, ceremonial or ecclesiastical laws but moral laws of our duty of love to God and our fellow man. So reference to God’s 10 commandnments are not the topic of context to Colossians 2:16 but the context is to the ceremonial Mosiac “shadow law” that are fulfilled in the body of Christ *Colossians 2:17

The Sabbath (God's 4th commandment) was not included as a "shadow law" in Colossians 2:16. It is to the scripture and chapter contexts which is sabbath{s} plural to sabbaths {Genitive neuter plural} in the annual Feast days. The Greek word here σάββατον (sabbaton) is the plural application to the context of course which is the meat and drink offerings and the new moons that determine the seasons (Genesis 1:14) pointing to the Feast days and their sabbaths of the old covenant which were a shadow of things to come *Colossians 2:17.

That is in reference to the annual sabbaths in the Feast days that are the shadows of things to come not Gods' 4th commandment. There were many different types of sabbaths in the old covenant that are fulfilled in the new covenant promise. None of these however are in reference to Gods' weekly Sabbath which is one of God's 10 commandments that give us the knowledge of what sin is when broken according to Romans 3:20; Romans 7:7; 1 John 3:4 and James 2:10-11.

These annual shadow sabbaths connected to the Feast days included; (1) Feast of Unleavened Bread (first and last day) *Leviticus 23:6-8 (2) Feast of Trumpets *Leviticus 23:24-25 (3) Day of Atonement *Leviticus 23:27-32 (4) Feast of Booths *Leviticus 23:34-36 (5) Feast of First Fruits *Leviticus 23:39 (6) Feast days of Holy convocation of no work (sabbaton Colossians 2:16 *Leviticus 23:7-8; 21;24; 27; 35-36.

It is impossible that Colossians 2:16 is in reference to God's 4th commandment as it a part of the "finished work of creation" *Genesis 2:1-3. There was no sin and no law and no plan of salvation for unfallen man when the Sabbath was made for mankind *Mark 2:27; Genesis 2:1-3.

Now notice something very important. God's 4th commandment does not point forward to things to come *Colossians 2:17 it points backward (Remember the Sabbath day to keep it Holy - Exodus 20:8). Gods 4th commandment points backwards because it is a memorial of the finished work of creation and the celebration of God as the creator of heaven and earth...

Lets look at the commandment that points backward not forwards...

Exodus 20:8-11 [8], REMEMBER the SABBATH DAY, to KEEP IT HOLY. <Why?> {Because it is a memorial looking back to the finished work of creation that JESUS made it a Holy day of rest for mankind and commands us to keep it as a Holy day} [9], Six days shalt thou labor, and do all thy work: [10], But the SEVENTH DAY IS THE SABBATH of the LORD thy God {This is a direct reference from God's Word defining what the Sabbath is; The SABBATH = the SEVENTH DAY OF THE WEEK}: in it thou shalt not do any work, thou, nor thy son, nor thy daughter, thy manservant, nor thy maidservant, nor thy cattle, nor thy stranger that is within thy gates: <WHY> [11], For in six days the LORD made heaven and earth, the sea, and all that in them is, and rested the SEVENTH DAY: wherefore the LORD BLESSED THE SABBATH, and HALLOWED IT. {Reference is backward not forward to Genesis 2:1-3}

Therefore, it is impossible for God's 4th commandment seventh day Sabbath to be a "shadow law" as all the "shadow laws" are laws to do with God's plan of salvation from sin after the fall of mankind from the Mosaic book of the law. God's Sabbath was created when there was no sin, no fall, no law and no plan of salvation because mankind was in perfect harmony with God. – So there is nothing there in reference to Gods’ 4th commandment not being a requirement for Christian living in the new testament.

So in summary we should believe the teachings of Jesus in Mathew 5:17-20 and Paul when he says in Hebrews 4:9 THEREFORE IT REMAINS FOR THE PEOPLE OF GOD TO KEEP THE SABBATH. Jesus did not come to abolish the law and the prophets he came to magnify them and make them honorable according to the prophecy of Isaiah (Isaiah 42:21; Matthew 5:17-28).

According to Jesus unless we are born again into God’s new covenant promise to love we cannot enter into God’s kingdom because according to John those who are born again to walk in God’s Spirit do not practice sin (knowingly breaking God’s commandments) *Galatians 5:16; 1 John 3:6-9.

Those who practice sin according to John do not know God according to 1 John 2:3-4; 1 John 3:6 who agrees with Jesus in Matthew 7:21-23 and we know that James tells us that if we knowingly break anyone of God’s 10 commandments in James 2:10-11 we stand guilty before God of sin. According to Paul in Hebrews 10:26-31 those who reject God’s Word in order to continue in known unrepentant sin are in danger of the judgement.

More to come...
 
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LoveGodsWord

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Even when Sabbatarians set out to keep the Sabbath day today, are they truly "keeping the Sabbath?" To "keep the Sabbath" as it was required in the Old Testament under the old covenant would involve compliance with specific regulations (Exodus 16:23; 35:3; Leviticus 23:32; Jeremiah 17:21) that were strictly enforced.
You may need to check your scripture references. Exodus 16:23 is about preparation day. That is preparing for the Sabbath through food preparation so no cooking is done or no other work is to be done on the Sabbath day and is called the preparation day before the Sabbath. New testament scripture references to this are found in *Matthew 27:62; Mark 15:42; Luke 23:54; John 19:14; John 19:31; John 19:42.

Leviticus 23:32 is not the “seventh day Sabbath of God’s 4th commandment. It is one of the annual ceremonial sabbaths in the Feast days as shown in the Colossians 2:16 section that are shadows of things to come. Leviticus 23:32 is about the annual sabbath of the Yom Kippur (not God’s weekly seventh day Sabbath of the 10 commandments) or the annual day of atonement from the old covenant Feast days that are linked directly to the Feast day and can fall on any day of the week depending on the weekly cycle.

While Jeremiah 17:21 says not to bring a burden on the Sabbath. This is in reference to Gods 4th commandment. That is no work is to be done on the Sabbath which is already shown in God’s 4th commandment written in Exodus 20:8-11. So you have not shown anywhere in the scriptures you have provided here anything that changes the requirement of God’s 4th commandment in the new covenant.
If Sabbath day observances are still required, so would the burnt offerings which went along with them (Leviticus 19:30; 23:2-3; Numbers 28:1-10; 29:39-40; I Chronicles. 23:30-31; II Chronicles 31:2-4; Isaiah 1:13). So no kindling a fire in any of your dwellings on the sabbath (Exodus 35:3). Every man must remain in his place on the sabbath (Exodus 16:29). No trading (Amos 8:5). No marketing (Nehemiah 10:31; 13:15,19). These were commanded by God to Israel (Exodus 35:1).

According to the scriptures we are in the new covenant now not the old covenant. These laws were not only linked to the Sabbath but every day of the week. For example there was sin offerings and burnt offerings every morning and evening (Exodus 29:38-42; Numbers 28:2); each Sabbath (Numbers 28:9-10) the beginning of each month (Numbers 28:11) at Passover (Numbers 28:19); with the new grain/firstfruits offering at the Feast of Weeks (Numbers 28:27); at the Feast of Trumpets/Rosh Hashanah (Numbers 29:1)and at the new moon (Numbers 29:6). These are all ceremonial laws for remission of sin pointing to JESUS and God's plan of salvation for mankind in the new covenant.

According to the scriptures burnt offering and sin offerings were a part of the laws for remission of sins (Levitical Priesthood; the earthly Sanctuary services; the laws of burnt offerings and sin offerings; circumcision; Feast days etc) that are “shadow laws” that all point to the body of Christ *Colossians 2:17

Burnt offerings and drink offerings are not a requirement for the Sabbath in the new covenant and neither are they a requirement according to Gods’ 4th commandment in the new covenant as the “shadow laws” for remission of sins (Levitical Priesthood, earthly Sanctuary service, animal sacrifices and sin offerings, circumcision and the Feast days etc) are all fulfilled in the body of Christ to who they all pointed to and are continued in according to the scriptures (Colossians 2:17; Hebrews 7:1-25; Hebrews 8:1-13; Hebrews 9:1-27; Hebrews 10:1-22) based on better promises in the new covenant *Hebrews 8:1-6.

Today Jesus is now our great high Priest *Hebrews 7:1-25 ministering on our behalf in the Heavenly Sanctuary that the Lord pitched and not man *Hebrews 8:2 who is also God's perfect sacrifice for the sins of the world *John 1:29; 36; Hebrews 9:1-28; Hebrews 10:14-24; 1 John 2:2; Romans 5:8; Ephesians 5:2; Hebrews 10:10-12; 1 Peter 2:24; 2 Corinthians 5:21; 1 John 4:10. Jesus as our true sacrifice for the sins of the world. So anything here associated with the old covenant Levitical Priesthood and Sanctuary service and laws for remission of sins are no longer applicable for us today in the new covenant.

So no these laws are not a requirement as we are in the new covenant now based on better promises *Hebrews 8:1-6.

More to come...
 
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LoveGodsWord

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If keeping the Sabbath day is still in effect today, then according to Exodus 31:12-18; 35:1-3; and Numbers 15:32-36, anyone who profaned the Sabbath was put to death and any person who does any work on it, that person shall be cut off from his people. Who is going to enforce that? Since we do not live under a theocratic state as ancient Israel did under the old covenant, no Sabbatarian can live consistently under these Mosaic regulations.
Under the civil laws for the Nation of Israel under the old covenant if anyone openly broke anyone of God’s 10 commandments, not just the Sabbath commandment they were openly put to death.

These death penalties were not unique to the Sabbath but were applied to everyone of God’s 10 commandments and were a part of the civil laws of Moses to help teach God’s people that the wages of sin is death (Romans 6:23).

The same death penalty was given to anyone who was caught breaking 1st . Commandment, Thou shalt have no other gods before me (Deuteronomy 17:1-5; 14:6-10; Exodus 22:20); 2nd Commandment, Exodus 20:4 Thou shalt not make unto thee any idols (Exodus 20:4; Deuteronomy 27: 15); 3rd Commandment, Thou shalt not take the name of the Lord in vain (Exodus 20:7; Leviticus 24:16); 4th yep; 5th commandment and cursing there Mother and farther (Exodus 20:12; Exodus 21:15-17); 6th commandment thou shalt not kill (Exodus 20: 13; Leviticus 24:17; Numbers 35:31-33); 7th commandment thou shalt not commit Adultery (Exodus 20:14; Leviticus 20:10; John 8:3-5) etc.

The death penalties for open sin ceased during the time of Christ when Israel was under Roman law and at the death of Christ bringing in the NC. The death penalty is still in force today for those that do not repent before the time of judgement is finished (Romans 6:23; James 2:8-12).

The only difference today is that we are in the new covenant now so we no longer put people to open death and we are not in the nation of ISRAEL. The death penalty for sin is still the same however for those who reject the gift of God's dear son *Romans 6:23 but JESUS says Vengeance is mine and his reward will be with him at the 2nd coming *Romans 12:19-21; Revelation 22:12
God's word makes it clear that Sabbath observance was a sign between God and Israel: "The Israelites are to observe the Sabbath, celebrating it for the generations to come as a lasting covenant. It will be a sign between me and the Israelites forever, for in six days the Lord made the heavens and the earth, and on the seventh day he abstained from work and rested." (Exodus 31:16-17).
According to the scripture the Sabbath is a sign to God’s people that the God of creation is the one who sanctifies His people *Ezekiel 20:12; Ezekiel 20:20; We are sanctified according to Jesus by the same Word that created all things in John 17:17 as God’s with God’s Word comes Gods’ Spirit according to John 6:63 and it is by believing and following Gods’ Word that we are made free to walk in God’s Spirit according to 1 John 5:4; Romans 3:31; Romans 8:1-4; Galatians 5:16.

According to the scriptures Gods Sabbath commandment is an everlasting covenant (Exodus 31:16). God’s Israel according to the scriptures as already shown in the new covenant are no longer those born in the flesh but those who through faith in Gods’ Word are now born in the Spirit into Gods’ new covenant promise of a new heart to love *Hebrews 8:10-12.

Gentiles are now grafted in *Romans 11:13-27. If we are not a part of Gods’ Israel in the new covenant we have no part in God’s new covenant promise and salvation which is to God’s Israel *Hebrews 8:10-12 from Jeremiah 31:31-34 and Ezekiel 36:24-27 who are all those now who believe and follow Gods’ Word *Romans 9:6-8.
Now although God's rest on the seventh day (Genesis 2:3) did foreshadow a future Sabbath law, there is no Biblical record of the Sabbath before the children of Israel left the land of Egypt. *Nowhere in Scripture is there any hint that Sabbath keeping was practiced from Adam to Moses. The Sabbath was not given to all the nations, but to the nation of Israel. Deuteronomy 5:2 - The Lord our God made a covenant with us in Horeb. 3 The Lord did not make this covenant with our fathers, but with us, those who are here today, all of us who are alive. Nehemiah 9:13 - Then You came down on Mount Sinai, And spoke with them from heaven; You gave them just ordinances and true laws, Good statutes and commandments. 14 So You made known to them Your holy sabbath, And laid down for them commandments, statutes and law, Through Your servant Moses.
According to the scriptures, God’s Sabbath was made on the “seventh day” of the creation week in Genesis 2:1-3 where God rested from the finished word of creation. Here he blessed the “seventh day” of the week and set it apart as a holy day of rest for all mankind. Adam and Eve of course being created on the sixth day of the creation week in Genesis 1:26-31.

Jesus says in his own words that the Sabbath was made for all mankind in Mark 2:27 and that he is the Lord and creator of it in Mark 2:28; Matthew 12:8; John 1:1-4; 14. So according to the scriptures there was no Israel, no Jew, no gentil, no sin and no plan of salvation given to mankind because man was in perfect harmony with God and walked and talked with God when he made the Sabbath for man on the “seventh day” of the creation week.

Of course Gods’ people although not having the written laws of God all had God’s laws through the spoken Word of God we also read in Genesis 26:5 Abraham obeyed my voice, and kept my charge, my commandments, my statutes, and my laws.

Hope this is helpful.
 
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SabbathBlessings

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I'm a new Christian. There is 5 months or something since I started 'truly' following Jesus and God, obeying Him, learning, etc. Everything is going well, I'm learning so much. But now, looks like everything is running out of my control, I don't know what to do or to follow anymore, if I should do X or no, if I should follow Y or no.
Only one thing remains clear to me: I believe in Jesus, God, Holy Spirit and Bible.

There is many things right now I don't know what to follow or do. But in this thread, I wanna focus in just one of them: the Sabbath / the 4th commandment. It is making me desperate, overthink over and over and get worried so often.


What should I do?

I have already read the Bible arguments from SDA and they look really good. But I also read the Bible arguments from people that do not follow the Sabbath and they also look really good.
Since both really look good, I thought that the Bible is contradicting itself, but I truly believe in the Bible, I just don't know what to follow.




Arguments from SDA:
1-
The 4th commandment that God gave to Moses
2- Matthew 17:3 - I don't know exactly if this is an argument, but I saw some using it.
3- Mark 7:6-13
4- Luke 16:31
5- Deuteronomy 8:11


Arguments that don't think Christians need to follow Sabbath:
1-
Romans 14:5,6
2- Galatians 5:2-8
3- Galatians 4:9-11
4- Colossians 2:14-17



I am personally more inclined to the non-Sabbath verses, because they look more solid and direct on what message/meaning they are trying to get across and it is also aiming for Christians that are not Jewish, but the SDA arguments are also good.

Please, don't use articles and texts that are not from the Bible to make an argument.
And don't use "if your conscience says to..." arguments, they are so shallow, and this is a subject that is directed connected to God and Jesus and defines if you go to hell or no, because even if you do every other thing correctly, if God's Truth is that no matter who you are you should follow Sabbath, then I would say it is a condemning subject.

I would like to point out the Sabbath is not "SDA" its biblical.

Just common sense, would God give only Israel “the holy day” to worship Him on and it’s up to everyone else which day they prefer? That sounds confusing and our God is not.

1. Sabbath was created from the beginning before Israel Genesis 2:2-3
2. God personally wrote His will on stone with the TEN. That includes the Sabbath commandment Exodus 20:8 Remember the Sabbath day to keep it holy. The Ten are a unit and cannot be separated or broken. They were stored in the most holy of holy in the sanctuary.
3. The Ten are an eternal covenant Luke 16:17, Psalms 89:34, Psalms 111:7,8
We are told His covenant cannot be broken, so I do not believe the only commandment that was erased from God's Ten is the only commandment God started with the word "REMEMBER".
4. The significance of God's Sabbath- it's a sign between Him and His people Ezekiel 20:20, Exodus 31:12-17 and a sign of sanctification according to scripture Ezekiel 20:12
5. God's laws are written in our hearts in the New Covenant, this includes the TEN and the Sabbath commandment.
6. Jesus kept Sabbath Luke 4:16-should we not follow Christ?
7. Apostles, Jews and non-Jews kept the Sabbath Acts 18:4
8. Jesus said the Sabbath was made for us (man) Mark 2:27
9. Jesus taught about Sabbath keeping Luke 14:1-5
10. On the New Earth we will be worshipping God on His holy Sabbath like He commanded us Isaiah 66:23 not the first day

The Sabbath is meant to be a blessing and a delight. When we obey God we are showing our loyalty to Him and not to man who changed the corporate day of worship without any scripture authority (there is a lot of documentation on this). God says He is unchanging and I believe Him. There are over 170 scripture references to the Sabbath and eight verses on the first day. Nothing in the entire Bible tells us to worship God on the first day of the week or that it's a new holy day, or anything other than a working day according to God. Exodus 20:8-11

Here is a great website on the Sabbath sabbathtruth.com I would check it out, it goes over the history of the Sabbath, how it was changed, the calendar and every scripture in the bible on the Sabbath. Hope this helps. God bless
 
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BobRyan

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The "Sabbath" doctrine has two simple components.

1. All TEN of the TEN Commandments are included in the moral Law of God that defines what sin IS AND is applicable to all mankind even in the NT.
2. The Sabbath commandment cannot be "edited" by Tradition.

almost ALL of the back-and-forth arguments you will see on this thread are on the easy-simple-part 1 where Bible scholars on BOTH sides of the Sabbath topic, in almost all major denomination - AGREE. (and yet people opposing the Sabbath here - do not even agree with the majority of the Bible Scholarship on their own side of Sunday-keeping vs Sabbath topic !!)


There is many things right now I don't know what to follow or do. But in this thread, I wanna focus in just one of them: the Sabbath / the 4th commandment. It is making me desperate, overthink over and over and get worried so often.

What should I do?...

I have a really easy solution for you - take a look at where BOTH sides agree.

Baptist Confession of Faith - sectn 19.
Westminster Confession of Faith - sectn 19
D.L. Moody on the 4th commandment.
Dies Domini (Pope John Paul II)
R.C Sproul
C.H. Spurgeon
Eastern Orhtodox
Catholic Church
Martin Luther
etc.

ALL of them agree with the SDA church and other Sabbath keeping groups -- on these key points.

1. All TEN of the TEN commandments were given as the moral law of God in Eden - to mankind
2. All TEN of the TEN Commandments are included in the Law of God that is written on the heart under the new Covenant.
3. The Sabbath commandment as given by God in scripture - points to Saturday - not Sunday.
4. The TEN Commandments are not in opposition to grace or the Gospel
5. all of mankind are still to this very day held to accountability by the TEN
6. The TEN are not - "just for Jews".

And because people love to see examples that illustrate the point - I am adding them here -- on page 1.

So here is are examples of Bible details about "the TEN" remaining - so obvious that Bible scholars on both sides agree

Westminster Confession of Faith -

Chapter XIX

Of the Law of God

I. God gave to Adam a law, as a covenant of works, by which He bound him and all his posterity, to personal, entire, exact, and perpetual obedience, promised life upon the fulfilling, and threatened death upon the breach of it, and endued him with power and ability to keep it.[1]

II. This law, after his fall, continued to be a perfect rule of righteousness; and, as such, was delivered by God upon Mount Sinai, in Ten Commandments, and written in two tables:[2] the first four commandments containing our duty towards God; and the other six, our duty to man.[3]

III. Besides this law, commonly called moral, God was pleased to give to the people of Israel, as a church under age, ceremonial laws, containing several typical ordinances, partly of worship, prefiguring Christ, His graces, actions, sufferings, and benefits;[4] and partly, holding forth divers instructions of moral duties.[5] All which ceremonial laws are now abrogated, under the New Testament.[6]

IV. To them also, as a body politic, He gave sundry judicial laws, which expired together with the State of that people; not obliging under any now, further than the general equity thereof may require.[7]

V. The moral law does forever bind all, as well justified persons as others, to the obedience thereof;[8] and that, not only in regard of the matter contained in it, but also in respect of the authority of God the Creator, who gave it.[9] Neither does Christ, in the Gospel, any way dissolve, but much strengthen this obligation.[10]

VI. Although true believers be not under the law, as a covenant of works, to be thereby justified, or condemned;[11] yet is it of great use to them, as well as to others; in that, as a rule of life informing them of the will of God, and their duty, it directs and binds them to walk accordingly;[12] discovering also the sinful pollutions of their nature, hearts and lives;[13] so as, examining themselves thereby, they may come to further conviction of, humiliation for, and hatred against sin,[14] together with a clearer sight of the need they have of Christ, and the perfection of His obedience.[15] It is likewise of use to the regenerate, to restrain their corruptions, in that it forbids sin:[16] and the threatenings of it serve to show what even their sins deserve; and what afflictions, in this life, they may expect for them, although freed from the curse thereof threatened in the law.[17] The promises of it, in like manner, show them God's approbation of obedience,and what blessings they may expect upon the performance thereof:[18] although not as due to them by the law as a covenant of works.[19] So as, a man's doing good, and refraining from evil, because the law encourages to the one and deters from the other, is no evidence of his being under the law: and not under grace.[20]

VII. Neither are the forementioned uses of the law contrary to the grace of the Gospel, but do sweetly comply with it;[21] the Spirit of Christ subduing and enabling the will of man to do that freely, and cheerfully, which the will of God, revealed in the law, requires to be done.[22]

And here we can see it from the "Baptist Confession of Faith" section 19

Baptist Confession of Faith -- as formatted by C.H.Spurgeon


The Law of God - Baptist Confession of Faith: Section 19


1. God gave to Adam a law of universal obedience which was written in his heart, and He gave him very specific instruction about not eating the fruit of the tree of knowledge of good and evil. By this Adam and all his descendants were bound to personal, total, exact, and perpetual obedience, being promised life upon the fulfilling of the law, and threatened with death upon the breach of it. At the same time Adam was endued with power and ability to keep it.

2. The same law that was first written in the heart of man continued to be a perfect rule of righteousness after the Fall, and was delivered by God upon Mount Sinai in the Ten Commandments, and written in two tables, the first four containing our duty towards God, and the other six, our duty to man.

3. Besides this law, commonly called the moral law, God was pleased do give the people of Israel ceremonial laws containing several typical ordinances. These ordinances were partly about their worship, and in them Christ was prefigured along with His attributes and qualities, His actions, His sufferings and His benefits. These ordinances also gave instructions about different moral duties. All of these ceremonial laws were appointed only until the time of reformation, when Jesus Christ the true Messiah and the only lawgiver, Who was furnished with power from the Father for this end, cancelled them and took them away.

4. To the people of Israel He also gave sundry judicial laws which expired when they ceased to be a nation. These are not binding on anyone now by virtue of their being part of the laws of that nation, but their general equity continue to be applicable in modern times.

5. The moral law ever binds to obedience everyone, justified people as well as others, and not only out of regard for the matter contained in it, but also out of respect for the authority of God the Creator, Who gave the law. Nor does Christ in the Gospel dissolve this law in any way, but He considerably strengthens our obligation to obey it.

6. Although true believers are not under the law as a covenant of works, to be justified or condemned by it, yet it is of great use to them as well as to others, because as a rule of life it informs them of the will of God and their duty and directs and binds them to walk accordingly. It also reveals and exposes the sinful pollutions of their natures, hearts and lives, and using it for self-examination they may come to greater conviction of sin, greater humility and greater hatred of their sin. They will also gain a clearer sight of their need of Christ and the perfection of His own obedience. It is of further use to regenerate people to restrain their corruptions, because of the way in which it forbids sin. The threatenings of the law serve to show what their sins actually deserve, and what troubles may be expected in this life because of these sins even by regenerate people who are freed from the curse and undiminished rigours of the law. The promises connected with the law also show believers God's approval of obedience, and what blessings they may expect when the law is kept and obeyed, though blessing will not come to them because they have satisfied the law as a covenant of works. If a man does good and refrains from evil simply because the law encourages to the good and deters him from the evil, that is no evidence that he is under the law rather than under grace.

7. The aforementioned uses of the law are not contrary to the grace of the Gospel, but they sweetly comply with it, as the Spirit of Christ subdues and enables the will of man to do freely and cheerfully those things which the will of God, which is revealed in the law, requires to be done.

Notice that even the Orthodox church confesses "the TEN" -- not merely "NINE" and affirms that they are not "just for Jews" in it's explicit statement
Friday at 5:36 PM #23

===========================================

When scholarship on BOTH sides look at the Bible and AGREE on these key details then it is a pretty good option .. take this as the starting point and then work through the differences that remain.

Essentially given all that common ground - the Sabbath keeping POV is "God's Word cannot be edited ... not even by tradition"... and that is the crux of where all the differences reside when it comes to Sabbath keeping vs the position taken by those groups I listed.

Someone comments later on in this thread as follows

PaulCyp1 said:
That one Church changed the day of worship from Saturday to Sunday because it rightly believed it was more fitting to celebrate worship on the day of Jesus Christ's glorious Resurrection .

Which highlights the point I just made above.

So getting to the "easy part" of these Bible details -- where BOTH sides agree - is starting at "square 1".

When you find someone arguing for a solution that does not even make it to "square 1" -- the chances of success are less than optimal.

===============================

Having said that - some more easy things to look at are:

1. Romans 14 does not mention the 7th Sabbath at all in the entire chapter.
"one man observes one day above another while another man observes them all... he who observes the day observes it or the Lord"

2. A careful reading of Col 2 - shows that it also does not mention the 7th day Sabbath - it only refers to the "Shadow" Sabbaths of Lev 23 - the annual feast days. Holy days in the Bible.

3. Gal 4:9-11 only references pagan holy days that the former-pagan gentiles in Gal 4 "were returning to" after becoming Christians. The observance of even one of them was condemned by Paul in Gal 4 --- as contrasted to the defense of all the Bible holy days defended by Paul in Rom 14.

4. Gal 5:1-5 is not condemning the Bible. So then it is still a sin to "take God's name in vain" for example. Gal 5 is condemning the "made up tradition" of gentiles required to be circumcised to be saved... and the idea that a lost person could "earn salvation" by not taking God's name in vain - without accepting the Gospel and being born again.

And as for the bonus text making it all very very easy

Is 66:23 - for all eternity after the cross in the New Earth: "from Sabbath to Sabbath shall ALL mankind come before Me to worship"

Mark 2:27 "Sabbath made for mankind"
Is 56:6 - Gentiles singled out for Sabbath keeping.
Acts 18:4 gospel preaching for both gentiles and Jews "every Sabbath"

(There is only "one Gospel" -- Gal 1:6-9 and that Gospel "was preached to Abraham" Gal 3:8 which is why in your OP that Matt 17 text shows both Moses and Elijah standing with Christ in glory - before the cross... because there is only one Gospel and it was in the OT as well as NT. Same is true for New Covenant in Jer 31:31-34 as well as Heb 8:6-12)

===================
 
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Bob S

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I'm a new Christian. There is 5 months or something since I started 'truly' following Jesus and God, obeying Him, learning, etc. Everything is going well, I'm learning so much. But now, looks like everything is running out of my control, I don't know what to do or to follow anymore, if I should do X or no, if I should follow Y or no.
Only one thing remains clear to me: I believe in Jesus, God, Holy Spirit and Bible.

There is many things right now I don't know what to follow or do. But in this thread, I wanna focus in just one of them: the Sabbath / the 4th commandment. It is making me desperate, overthink over and over and get worried so often.


What should I do?

I have already read the Bible arguments from SDA and they look really good. But I also read the Bible arguments from people that do not follow the Sabbath and they also look really good.
Since both really look good, I thought that the Bible is contradicting itself, but I truly believe in the Bible, I just don't know what to follow.




Arguments from SDA:
1-
The 4th commandment that God gave to Moses
2- Matthew 17:3 - I don't know exactly if this is an argument, but I saw some using it.
3- Mark 7:6-13
4- Luke 16:31
5- Deuteronomy 8:11


Arguments that don't think Christians need to follow Sabbath:
1-
Romans 14:5,6
2- Galatians 5:2-8
3- Galatians 4:9-11
4- Colossians 2:14-17



I am personally more inclined to the non-Sabbath verses, because they look more solid and direct on what message/meaning they are trying to get across and it is also aiming for Christians that are not Jewish, but the SDA arguments are also good.

Please, don't use articles and texts that are not from the Bible to make an argument.
And don't use "if your conscience says to..." arguments, they are so shallow, and this is a subject that is directed connected to God and Jesus and defines if you go to hell or no, because even if you do every other thing correctly, if God's Truth is that no matter who you are you should follow Sabbath, then I would say it is a condemning subject.
Hi FFT, I am a former SDA and would be glad to help you through your newly acquired problem. Your Christian experience should be one of great joy and no one should take that joy away from you.

You accepted Jesus as your Savior, not Moses or any flag waving church. There are many verses that helped me see that I was not bound by the teachings of the SDA church no matter how sincere and true they seem to be. For an example Adventists will tell us we have to keep the 10 commandments and site all the verses in the New Testament that state keeping God's commandments. The problem is that none of those verses tell us that they are referring to the 10 commandments. Jew claim there are 613 commands given to them by God. Could the NT verses mean 613? God didn't keep us wondering what He means. In Jn 15 Jesus said He kept the commands His Father gave Him and then asks that we keep His commands to us. His command to us is that we love our fellow man as He loves us. Then He states that no greater love man can do is to give his life for others. This is a most powerful message to man. 1JN 3:19-24 confirms Jesus words with the following: 19 "This is how we know that we belong to the truth and how we set our hearts at rest in his presence: 20 If our hearts condemn us, we know that God is greater than our hearts, and he knows everything. 21 Dear friends, if our hearts do not condemn us, we have confidence before God 22 and receive from him anything we ask, because we keep his commands and do what pleases him. 23 And this is his command: to believe in the name of his Son, Jesus Christ, and to love one another as he commanded us. 24 The one who keeps God’s commands lives in him, and he in them. And this is how we know that he lives in us: We know it by the Spirit he gave us."

None of the teachers in the New Testament has a Sabbath keeping teaching. Could this be that it fell through the cracks or maybe God never put it on them to teach Sabbath keeping. Apparently, the hearts of those teachers didn't condemn them for not teaching Gentiles proper Sabbath observance. It was just the opposite as you have written. The writers were adamant to the fact that man is not under the laws of the old covenant. Israel broke the covenant which contained all the laws they were to keep. When one party breaks a covenant, the covenant is no longer binding. The laws of the old covenant ceased when the New and better covenant was ratified with Christ's blood on the Cross. No longer were the Jews under the law. Paul writes about this many times. It does not matter how good the Sinai covenant was and how much we might uphold the Law we are not under the dictates of that covenant's ritual laws, none of them. By the way the seventh-day Sabbath was a ritual law just as were all the other special days Israel was commanded to observe. All of the moral laws give Israel are incorporated in the new covenant Royal law of ❤.

In the book of Hebrews the writer is telling the Jews that they have never found God's rest yet they were Sabbath keepers. The writer states that God's rest is still available to man. SDAs claim those verses are telling us that the Sabbath of the old covenant is still binding and we can find God's rest in keeping it. Remember the people the writer was addressing were resting on the Sabbath of the old covenant, so what the writer was referring to was not the weekly Sabbath, it is rest in Him. It is the joy of knowing that we can come to Him at any time and find Rest. According to the writer the Israelites didn't rest in the Word made flesh.

If the 10 commandments were written in your heart, as SDAs tell us. you would not be questioning what God wants you to do in regards to a loving relationship with Him. The greatest theme in the New Testament is ❤.

I pray for you that you too may continue to find peace in Jesus.
 
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tall73

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Both Romans 14 and Colossians 2 indicate not judging about days. So it is not wrong to observe Sabbath to the Lord, and it is not wrong to not.

The Sabbath was one of the appointed times, and the list in Colossians 2 is a list of the appointed times and mentions the food and drink associated with them (food and drink offerings).

16 So let no one judge you in food or in drink, or regarding a feast or a new moon or sabbaths, 17 which are a shadow of things to come, but the substance is of Christ.

So we see a listing of these in short form, similar to Colossians 2 in Ezekiel:

Eze 45:17 It shall be the prince's duty to furnish the burnt offerings, grain offerings, and drink offerings, at the feasts, the new moons, and the Sabbaths, all the appointed times of the house of Israel: he shall provide the sin offerings, grain offerings, burnt offerings, and peace offerings, to make atonement on behalf of the house of Israel.

In this case we know the summary statement includes the weekly Sabbath because he goes on through the rest of the chapter and the next to elaborate:

Eze 46:1 “Thus says the Lord GOD: The gate of the inner court that faces east shall be shut on the six working days, but on the Sabbath day it shall be opened, and on the day of the new moon it shall be opened.
Eze 46:2 The prince shall enter by the vestibule of the gate from outside, and shall take his stand by the post of the gate. The priests shall offer his burnt offering and his peace offerings, and he shall worship at the threshold of the gate. Then he shall go out, but the gate shall not be shut until evening.
Eze 46:3 The people of the land shall bow down at the entrance of that gate before the LORD on the Sabbaths and on the new moons.
Eze 46:4 The burnt offering that the prince offers to the LORD on the Sabbath day shall be six lambs without blemish and a ram without blemish.
Eze 46:5 And the grain offering with the ram shall be an ephah, and the grain offering with the lambs shall be as much as he is able, together with a hin of oil to each ephah.
Eze 46:6 On the day of the new moon he shall offer a bull from the herd without blemish, and six lambs and a ram, which shall be without blemish.


This is the closest parallel to Col. 2 and contains the same elements. It is a listing of the appointed times.

new moon
Feast
sabbaths

The feast in this case is in reference to the pilgrim feasts, correlating with the word "chag" in Hebrew. Some of the yearly appointed times were not feasts but solemn assemblies. The trumpets, Day of Atonement, etc. These are included in the category of Sabbath. They are appointed times, but not "chag" or feasts. The Weekly sabbath is also included in both Numbers and Ezekiel as it is also a sabbath, and one of the appointed times.


You can read about these in Numbers 28 and 29, and the Sabbath is included.


Numbers 28
1 Now the Lord spoke to Moses, saying, 2 “Command the children of Israel, and say to them, ‘My offering, My food for My offerings made by fire as a sweet aroma to Me, you shall be careful to offer to Me at their appointed time.’

3 “And you shall say to them, ‘This is the offering made by fire which you shall offer to the Lord: two male lambs in their first year without blemish, day by day, as a regular burnt offering. 4 The one lamb you shall offer in the morning, the other lamb you shall offer in the evening, 5 and one-tenth of an ephah of fine flour as a grain offering mixed with one-fourth of a hin of pressed oil. 6 It is a regular burnt offering which was ordained at Mount Sinai for a sweet aroma, an offering made by fire to the Lord. 7 And its drink offering shall be one-fourth of a hin for each lamb; in a holy place you shall pour out the drink to the Lord as an offering. 8 The other lamb you shall offer in the evening; as the morning grain offering and its drink offering, you shall offer it as an offering made by fire, a sweet aroma to the Lord.

Sabbath Offerings
9 ‘And on the Sabbath day two lambs in their first year, without blemish, and two-tenths of an ephah of fine flour as a grain offering, mixed with oil, with its drink offering— 10 this is the burnt offering for every Sabbath, besides the regular burnt offering with its drink offering.

Monthly Offerings
11 ‘At the beginnings of your months you shall present a burnt offering to the Lord: two young bulls, one ram, and seven lambs in their first year, without blemish; 12 three-tenths of an ephah of fine flour as a grain offering, mixed with oil, for each bull; two-tenths of an ephah of fine flour as a grain offering, mixed with oil, for the one ram; 13 and one-tenth of an ephah of fine flour, mixed with oil, as a grain offering for each lamb, as a burnt offering of sweet aroma, an offering made by fire to the Lord. 14 Their drink offering shall be half a hin of wine for a bull, one-third of a hin for a ram, and one-fourth of a hin for a lamb; this is the burnt offering for each month throughout the months of the year. 15 Also one kid of the goats as a sin offering to the Lord shall be offered, besides the regular burnt offering and its drink offering.

Offerings at Passover
16 ‘On the fourteenth day of the first month is the Passover of the Lord. 17 And on the fifteenth day of this month is the feast; unleavened bread shall be eaten for seven days. 18 On the first day you shall have a holy convocation. You shall do no customary work. 19 And you shall present an offering made by fire as a burnt offering to the Lord: two young bulls, one ram, and seven lambs in their first year. Be sure they are without blemish. 20 Their grain offering shall be of fine flour mixed with oil: three-tenths of an ephah you shall offer for a bull, and two-tenths for a ram; 21 you shall offer one-tenth of an ephah for each of the seven lambs; 22 also one goat as a sin offering, to make atonement for you. 23 You shall offer these besides the burnt offering of the morning, which is for a regular burnt offering. 24 In this manner you shall offer the food of the offering made by fire daily for seven days, as a sweet aroma to the Lord; it shall be offered besides the regular burnt offering and its drink offering. 25 And on the seventh day you shall have a holy convocation. You shall do no customary work.

Offerings at the Feast of Weeks
26 ‘Also on the day of the firstfruits, when you bring a new grain offering to the Lord at your Feast of Weeks, you shall have a holy convocation. You shall do no customary work. 27 You shall present a burnt offering as a sweet aroma to the Lord: two young bulls, one ram, and seven lambs in their first year, 28 with their grain offering of fine flour mixed with oil: three-tenths of an ephah for each bull, two-tenths for the one ram, 29 and one-tenth for each of the seven lambs; 30 also one kid of the goats, to make atonement for you. 31 Be sure they are without blemish. You shall present them with their drink offerings, besides the regular burnt offering with its grain offering.

29

‘And in the seventh month, on the first day of the month, you shall have a holy convocation. You shall do no customary work. For you it is a day of blowing the trumpets. 2 You shall offer a burnt offering as a sweet aroma to the Lord: one young bull, one ram, and seven lambs in their first year, without blemish. 3 Their grain offering shall be fine flour mixed with oil: three-tenths of an ephah for the bull, two-tenths for the ram, 4 and one-tenth for each of the seven lambs; 5 also one kid of the goats as a sin offering, to make atonement for you; 6 besides the burnt offering with its grain offering for the New Moon, the regular burnt offering with its grain offering, and their drink offerings, according to their ordinance, as a sweet aroma, an offering made by fire to the Lord.

Offerings on the Day of Atonement
7 ‘On the tenth day of this seventh month you shall have a holy convocation. You shall afflict your souls; you shall not do any work. 8 You shall present a burnt offering to the Lord as a sweet aroma: one young bull, one ram, and seven lambs in their first year. Be sure they are without blemish. 9 Their grain offering shall be of fine flour mixed with oil: three-tenths of an ephah for the bull, two-tenths for the one ram, 10 and one-tenth for each of the seven lambs; 11 also one kid of the goats as a sin offering, besides the sin offering for atonement, the regular burnt offering with its grain offering, and their drink offerings.

Offerings at the Feast of Tabernacles
12 ‘On the fifteenth day of the seventh month you shall have a holy convocation. You shall do no customary work, and you shall keep a feast to the Lord seven days. 13 You shall present a burnt offering, an offering made by fire as a sweet aroma to the Lord: thirteen young bulls, two rams, and fourteen lambs in their first year. They shall be without blemish. 14 Their grain offering shall be of fine flour mixed with oil: three-tenths of an ephah for each of the thirteen bulls, two-tenths for each of the two rams, 15 and one-tenth for each of the fourteen lambs; 16 also one kid of the goats as a sin offering, besides the regular burnt offering, its grain offering, and its drink offering.

17 ‘On the second day present twelve young bulls, two rams, fourteen lambs in their first year without blemish, 18 and their grain offering and their drink offerings for the bulls, for the rams, and for the lambs, by their number, according to the ordinance; 19 also one kid of the goats as a sin offering, besides the regular burnt offering with its grain offering, and their drink offerings.

20 ‘On the third day present eleven bulls, two rams, fourteen lambs in their first year without blemish, 21 and their grain offering and their drink offerings for the bulls, for the rams, and for the lambs, by their number, according to the ordinance; 22 also one goat as a sin offering, besides the regular burnt offering, its grain offering, and its drink offering.

23 ‘On the fourth day present ten bulls, two rams, and fourteen lambs in their first year, without blemish, 24 and their grain offering and their drink offerings for the bulls, for the rams, and for the lambs, by their number, according to the ordinance; 25 also one kid of the goats as a sin offering, besides the regular burnt offering, its grain offering, and its drink offering.

26 ‘On the fifth day present nine bulls, two rams, and fourteen lambs in their first year without blemish, 27 and their grain offering and their drink offerings for the bulls, for the rams, and for the lambs, by their number, according to the ordinance; 28 also one goat as a sin offering, besides the regular burnt offering, its grain offering, and its drink offering.

29 ‘On the sixth day present eight bulls, two rams, and fourteen lambs in their first year without blemish, 30 and their grain offering and their drink offerings for the bulls, for the rams, and for the lambs, by their number, according to the ordinance; 31 also one goat as a sin offering, besides the regular burnt offering, its grain offering, and its drink offering.

32 ‘On the seventh day present seven bulls, two rams, and fourteen lambs in their first year without blemish, 33 and their grain offering and their drink offerings for the bulls, for the rams, and for the lambs, by their number, according to the ordinance; 34 also one goat as a sin offering, besides the regular burnt offering, its grain offering, and its drink offering.

35 ‘On the eighth day you shall have a sacreda]">[a] assembly. You shall do no customary work. 36 You shall present a burnt offering, an offering made by fire as a sweet aroma to the Lord: one bull, one ram, seven lambs in their first year without blemish, 37 and their grain offering and their drink offerings for the bull, for the ram, and for the lambs, by their number, according to the ordinance; 38 also one goat as a sin offering, besides the regular burnt offering, its grain offering, and its drink offering.

39 ‘These you shall present to the Lord at your appointed feasts (besides your vowed offerings and your freewill offerings) as your burnt offerings and your grain offerings, as your drink offerings and your peace offerings.’ ”
40 So Moses told the children of Israel everything, just as the Lord commanded Moses.
 
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Bob S

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I have a really easy solution for you - take a look at where BOTH sides agree.

Baptist Confession of Faith - sectn 19.
Westminster Confession of Faith - sectn 19
D.L. Moody on the 4th commandment.
Dies Domini (Pope John Paul II)
R.C Sproul
C.H. Spurgeon
etc.

ALL of them agree with the SDA church and other Sabbath keeping groups -- on these key points.

1. All TEN of the TEN commandments were given as the moral law of God in Eden - to mankind
If those Bible scholars agree then they too are wrong. Ten given to all mankind is just a supposition not a fact of scripture.

2. All TEN of the TEN Commandments are included in the Law of God that is written on the heart under the new Covenant.
Nowhere does it tell anyone that it is the ten commandments that are written on our ❤s. If the Sabbath command were written on our hearts SDAs wouldn't have to spend millions trying to convince man that he must observe the Sabbath. Even after spending all those millions only a very few respond to the SDA calling and many that do accept leave out the back door.

3. The Sabbath commandment as given by God in scripture - points to Saturday - not Sunday.
That fact does not make the Sabbath binding on man.

4. The TEN Commandments are not in opposition to grace or the Gospel
Why is it SDAs teach that if one knows about the Sabbath and does not observe it, they cannot have a reward in Heaven. That smacks of salvation by the works of the Law if ever I saw it.

5. all of mankind are still to this very day held to accountability by the TEN
Still?? Gentiles never were held accountable to the ten commandments. The ten were given to only Israel. The fourth commandment with its requirements states it was given for them to remember their flight out of bondage. Deut 5

6. The TEN are not - "just for Jews".
Show us because I read in 2Cor3 KJV that the ten have been done away.

When scholarship on BOTH sides look at the Bible and AGREE on these key details then it is a pretty good option .. take this as the starting point and then work through the differences that remain.
SDAs are taught that all other churches are part of "babylon", false churches. Why would you hang your hat on what those false churches say or do?

Essentially given all that common ground - the Sabbath keeping POV is "God's Word cannot be edited ... not even by tradition"... and that is the crux of where all the differences reside when it comes to Sabbath keeping vs the position taken by those groups I listed.
The laws dealing with the Sabbath have been done away, so how are we "editing" something that is not there?

===============================

Having said that - some more easy things to look at are:

1. Romans 14 does not mention the 7th Sabbath at all in the entire chapter.
"one man observes one day above another while another man observes them all... he who observes the day observes it or the Lord"
Are you saying that specific laws have to be shown and the writer could not have meant Sabbath because it was not specified?

2. A careful reading of Col 2 - shows that it also does not mention the 7th day Sabbath - it only refers to the "Shadow" Sabbaths of Lev 23 - the annual feast days. Holy days in the Bible.
Careful until you study the content. New moon and feasts cover all of the ritual "Sabbath" days the Israelites had to keep with one exception, the weekly Sabbath which the writer didn't forget to insert.
16 Let no man therefore judge you in meat, or in drink, or in respect of an holyday, or of the new moon, or of the sabbath days:

17 Which are a shadow of things to come; but the body is of Christ.

All of the Holy days beside the Holy weekly Sabbath just happen to be called Sabbaths, so was Paul stuttering when he then inserted Sabbath days? Of course, he wasn't. He meant just what he wrote, new moons feast Sabbaths and the weekly Sabbaths.

3. Gal 4:9-11 only references pagan holy days that the former-pagan gentiles in Gal 4 "were returning to" after becoming Christians. The observance of even one of them was condemned by Paul in Gal 4 --- as contrasted to the defense of all the Bible holy days defended by Paul in Rom 14.
Sounds Kosher until you start from the beginning of chapter three to the Galatians.
3 O foolish Galatians, who hath bewitched you, that ye should not obey the truth, before whose eyes Jesus Christ hath been evidently set forth, crucified among you?

2 This only would I learn of you, Received ye the Spirit by the works of the law, or by the hearing of faith?

What the Galatians were being taught were the works of the Law. It was the Judaizers that were teaching salvation by works to the Galatians. Kinda like those who now teach that unless I keep Sabbath I will go directly to hell and I won't get to pass Go.

4. Gal 5:1-5 is not condemning the Bible. So then it is still a sin to "take God's name in vain" for example. Gal 5 is condemning the "made up tradition" of gentiles required to be circumcised to be saved... and the idea that a lost person could "earn salvation" by not taking God's name in vain - without accepting the Gospel and being born again.
Since we are not under the ten commandments as shown in 2Cor3:6-11 how would we know not to take God's name in vain? It is because of Jesus love in giving us the Holy Spirit. It is the Holy Spirit that guides us not to take God's name in vain plus the hundreds of other ways to to try to defile God and our fellow man. The done away ten commandments only listed ten ways we could harm God and our fellow man, the Holy Spirit guides us in all ways we can do harm to God and our fellow man.


And as for the bonus text making it all very very easy
Oh tanks for the bonus.

Is 66:23 - for all eternity after the cross in the New Earth: "from Sabbath to Sabbath shall ALL mankind come before Me to worship"
And then in verse 24 go out and walk among the rotting bodies of those who sinned and lost their eternal life. Sounds to me like something I would detest doing. And in Bob's new Earth Isaiah tell us in chapter 65 we will live to be over one hundred. Maybe even as long as trees. 22 They shall not build, and another inhabit; they shall not plant, and another eat: for as the days of a tree are the days of my people, and mine elect shall long enjoy the work of their hands.

Also look at 17 For, behold, I create new heavens and a new earth: and the former shall not be remembered, nor come into mind.

When we walk through all the rotting bodies won't the past come to mind?
According to all of Isaiah's remarks about the New Earth I wouldn't hang my hat in Is 65:23 as what will happen in the New Earth we are promised.
 
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tall73

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I have already read the Bible arguments from SDA and they look really good. But I also read the Bible arguments from people that do not follow the Sabbath and they also look really good.

I am right there with you, they both look good, and I have studied it for decades. But that is probably why it is a disputable matter in Romans 14 and a a shadow in Colossians 2.

According to Acts 21 the Jewish believers went on being zealous for the whole law. They continued keeping the Sabbath and the rest of the law. This was in accordance with the decision of the council of the apostles and elders from the churches in the book of Acts, in chapter 15.

As gentile believers began to come into the church some contended they should be circumcised and observe the law of Moses (that is not the 10 commandments only, but the whole thing).

Acts 15:
And certain men came down from Judea and taught the brethren, “Unless you are circumcised according to the custom of Moses, you cannot be saved.”
2 Therefore, when Paul and Barnabas had no small dissension and dispute with them, they determined that Paul and Barnabas and certain others of them should go up to Jerusalem, to the apostles and elders, about this question.
3 So, being sent on their way by the church, they passed through Phoenicia and Samaria, describing the conversion of the Gentiles; and they caused great joy to all the brethren. 4 And when they had come to Jerusalem, they were received by the church and the apostles and the elders; and they reported all things that God had done with them. 5 But some of the sect of the Pharisees who believed rose up, saying, “It is necessary to circumcise them, and to command them to keep the law of Moses.” 6 Now the apostles and elders came together to consider this matter.

So the church gathered together to decide these issues, and you can read about it in Acts 15.



Now we know from several texts in Acts that the Jewish believers were still meeting in synagogues on Sabbath, because Paul went there to find them and persecute them, and Acts 15 also mentions Moses being preached in the synagogues all over each Sabbath.

Keep in mind today we can often obtain a Bible easily, but they would often in those days be large, expensive hand copied scrolls. So people often heard Moses in synagogue, because that is where the Scriptures were read.

There was no intention for the Jewish believers to stop observing the Sabbath, or to stop following the law. They observed it recognizing Jesus as the fulfillment. If they stopped keeping the law they would not be reaching out to other Jews effectively. And there was no reason for them to stop keeping it because the law was given to them as a covenant, and also again the law is written on the heart in the new covenant.

The question was what should be asked of gentiles. Now the letter that went out to the churches concluded the following:

23 They wrote this letter by them:

The apostles, the elders, and the brethren,

To the brethren who are of the Gentiles in Antioch, Syria, and Cilicia:

Greetings.

24 Since we have heard that some who went out from us have troubled you with words, unsettling your souls, saying, “You must be circumcised and keep the law”—to whom we gave no such commandment— 25 it seemed good to us, being assembled with one accord, to send chosen men to you with our beloved Barnabas and Paul, 26 men who have risked their lives for the name of our Lord Jesus Christ. 27 We have therefore sent Judas and Silas, who will also report the same things by word of mouth. 28 For it seemed good to the Holy Spirit, and to us, to lay upon you no greater burden than these necessary things: 29 that you abstain from things offered to idols, from blood, from things strangled, and from sexual immorality. If you keep yourselves from these, you will do well.

So basically, they were not required to keep all of the law given to Israel through Moses.


Now that does not mean that the few items listed there are the only moral requirements for Gentiles. There are a number of moral imperatives given in the NT. And even the law itself is at times referenced to show what is moral. But the law also contained some aspects that were not required. So for instance, Gentiles were not required to be circumcised.

And this made evangelism among Gentiles much easier, as you would not have to be circumcised and take on various other requirements of the law of Moses in order follow Christ.

So the council concluded the Holy Spirit did not require Gentiles to keep the law of Moses. But the Jewish believers kept on observing it.

 
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tall73

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Only one thing remains clear to me: I believe in Jesus, God, Holy Spirit and Bible.

That is the important thing. Keep in mind we grow over time in knowledge and in the Lord, just as you said you have been doing. Initially we learn the "milk" of the word as the Scriptures put it, the basics. Then we eventually learn more. And even with His own disciples Jesus said He had much to teach them but they were not yet ready.

And don't be afraid to study the word. You have already experienced Christ, and have assurance in Him. So whatever you find in His word and through His guidance is not harmful, but helpful, even if at times we do not yet understand all of it.

Now as to the Sabbath being "Jewish", I guess the way I would put it is that the covenant, or agreement, that God made with the nation of Israel has with it a sign that He gave to them. It is part of the covenant document, the tablets of stone, and is a memorial of the relationship they have.

The covenant with Israel was spelled out in broad terms at Mount Sinai in Exodus chapter 19

3 And Moses went up to God, and the Lord called to him from the mountain, saying, “Thus you shall say to the house of Jacob, and tell the children of Israel: 4 ‘You have seen what I did to the Egyptians, and how I bore you on eagles’ wings and brought you to Myself. 5 Now therefore, if you will indeed obey My voice and keep My covenant, then you shall be a special treasure to Me above all people; for all the earth is Mine. 6 And you shall be to Me a kingdom of priests and a holy nation.’ These are the words which you shall speak to the children of Israel.” 7 So Moses came and called for the elders of the people, and laid before them all these words which the Lord commanded him. 8 Then all the people answered together and said, “All that the Lord has spoken we will do.”

God notes that He brought them out of slavery in Egypt. And He wants to enter into a special relationship with them in which they would be a kingdom of priests and a holy nation.


A covenant is an agreement with promises, usually on both sides. God promises to make them a treasured people, if the people promise to do all that He commands. They promise to keep His commands.

Next He begins giving His commands. And He starts with the ten commandments.

The Sabbath had already been given to the Israelites in Exodus 16 where it was spelled out to them that God was testing them to see if they would listen to His commands in regards to the food He would give them from heaven. But the Sabbath command spells out additional details.

8 “Remember the Sabbath day, to keep it holy. 9 Six days you shall labor and do all your work, 10 but the seventh day is the Sabbath of the Lord your God. In it you shall do no work: you, nor your son, nor your daughter, nor your male servant, nor your female servant, nor your cattle, nor your stranger who is within your gates. 11 For in six days the Lord made the heavens and the earth, the sea, and all that is in them, and rested the seventh day. Therefore the Lord blessed the Sabbath day and hallowed it.

Here the Sabbath is given with the reason being that it reminds Israel of God's claims over them. He is their Creator.


We see additional passages giving reasons for the Sabbath.

Exodus 31 tells us that the Sabbath is a sign given to Israel.

12 And the Lord spoke to Moses, saying, 13 “Speak also to the children of Israel, saying: ‘Surely My Sabbaths you shall keep, for it is a sign between Me and you throughout your generations, that you may know that I am the Lord who sanctifies you. 14 You shall keep the Sabbath, therefore, for it is holy to you. Everyone who profanes it shall surely be put to death; for whoever does any work on it, that person shall be cut off from among his people. 15 Work shall be done for six days, but the seventh is the Sabbath of rest, holy to the Lord. Whoever does any work on the Sabbath day, he shall surely be put to death. 16 Therefore the children of Israel shall keep the Sabbath, to observe the Sabbath throughout their generations as a perpetual covenant. 17 It is a sign between Me and the children of Israel forever; for in six days the Lord made the heavens and the earth, and on the seventh day He rested and was refreshed.’ 18 And when He had made an end of speaking with him on Mount Sinai, He gave Moses two tablets of the Testimony, tablets of stone, written with the finger of God.

This text reiterates the creation reason, and gives an additional one, that it is a sign with Israel that God sanctifies them (sets them apart to be holy). So the Sabbath was given to Israel as a sign that God set them apart to be a holy nation.


Notice after this declaration of the sign of the sabbath God also gives the tables of the testimony, the stone tablets of the ten commandments.

When Moses again reiterated the commandments to Israel some years later in Deuteronomy 5 he lists a third reason to keep it, again relating to God as their ruler, and the one who entered into covenant with them as a special people.

12 ‘Observe the Sabbath day, to keep it holy, as the Lord your God commanded you. 13 Six days you shall labor and do all your work, 14 but the seventh day is the Sabbath of the Lord your God. In it you shall do no work: you, nor your son, nor your daughter, nor your male servant, nor your female servant, nor your ox, nor your donkey, nor any of your cattle, nor your stranger who is within your gates, that your male servant and your female servant may rest as well as you. 15 And remember that you were a slave in the land of Egypt, and the Lord your God brought you out from there by a mighty hand and by an outstretched arm; therefore the Lord your God commanded you to keep the Sabbath day.

God commemorated the covenant agreement with Israel with the ten commandments. These are the tablets of the testimony (covenant). In the middle of this document is a sign with Israel of the Lord's relationship to them.


May God bless you. Remember, even as you are learning, you are not saved by perfect knowledge, but by the Perfect Son of God who gave His life for you.

He wants us to be obedient to Him. And that is what we are trying to understand, what He requires. And He is able to guide you.
 
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tall73

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I am personally more inclined to the non-Sabbath verses, because they look more solid and direct on what message/meaning they are trying to get across and it is also aiming for Christians that are not Jewish, but the SDA arguments are also good..

I noted the covenant and the giving of the Sabbath to Israel as a sign. And it is clear that the Sabbath was one of the appointed times. These tend to show it was for Israel, and included in Colossians 2.

However, you would want to look atother texts as well that are often presented for the other side as to whether the Sabbath was given for everyone.

Now as I spelled out before the ten commandments were given by God to the Israelites. He spoke them directly.

So the book of Exodus was apparently written after this event of God giving the law at Mt. Sinai, as it records the words there spoken, and Moses was told to write down various things.

What this also means is that the book of Genesis was likewise probably written after the giving of the law at Sinai. The book of Genesis tells what happened from creation to the time of Exodus, and the narrative continues in Exodus. This suggests that both were probably written by Moses after the giving of the law at Sinai. And both reference the words of God in regards to the Sabbath command:


Exo 20:8 “Remember the Sabbath day, to keep it holy.
Exo 20:9 Six days you shall labor, and do all your work,
Exo 20:10 but the seventh day is a Sabbath to the LORD your God. On it you shall not do any work, you, or your son, or your daughter, your male servant, or your female servant, or your livestock, or the sojourner who is within your gates.
Exo 20:11 For in six days the LORD made heaven and earth, the sea, and all that is in them, and rested on the seventh day. Therefore the LORD blessed the Sabbath day and made it holy.

Gen 2:1 Thus the heavens and the earth were finished, and all the host of them.
Gen 2:2 And on the seventh day God finished his work that he had done, and he rested on the seventh day from all his work that he had done.

Gen 2:3 So God blessed the seventh day and made it holy, because on it God rested from all his work that he had done in creation.


There are a few questions to ask here in evaluating the two sides of the Sabbath debate. It is clear that God rested from His creative work in making the world. And it is clear that God blessed the Seventh day. The questions are:


- Was the blessing at the same time as the rest?
- Were people commanded to keep the Sabbath at this time?

Generally we would want to take the statement as happening at the time it appears in the narrative, as this is the usual way of writing. So this is a stronger text for the pro-sabbath side, with the notion that if God established the Sabbath at creation it is not just for the Jews.

However, it is also true that no mention is made of any person keeping the Sabbath or being commanded to keep the Sabbath before Exodus 16 when it was explained to the Israelites. And in Genesis we see a clear statement that God ceased His creative work and rested from it, but we do not see any indication of people resting.

And there is also the reality that the book of Genesis will at times mention things outside the order of the narrative to explain things to the audience (which based on it being one narrative with Exodus was largely a Jewish audience initially).

As an example, Genesis 3 relates how Adam and Eve disobeyed and ate from the fruit in the garden. And it describes then what God did in response. In the middle of this narrative we see the following statement:

Gen 3:20 The man called his wife's name Eve, because she was the mother of all living.

Then it resumes the narrative and goes on to describe them being expelled from the garden.


Now the explanatory note is relating events that have not yet happened in the flow of the narrative, as Eve at that time had not had any children. But it is just explaining the name.

In Chapter 4 it goes on to relate how she had children, in the flow of the narrative.

There are other examples of this, but suffice to say that Genesis will sometimes give explanatory notes. The contention by the side that thinks the Sabbath was given to Israel as part of its covenant indicates that this is an explanatory note about God blessing the Sabbath day and giving it to Israel as a sign.

And that is a possibility, especially since The work that forms Genesis and Exodus would likely have been written after the giving of the law at Sinai.

But I would still classify this as a stronger text for the pro-Sabbath group.
 
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tall73

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Another text to consider regarding whether the Sabbath was given to all mankind or to the Jewish nation as a sign in their covenant is Mark 2.


Mar 2:23 One Sabbath he was going through the grainfields, and as they made their way, his disciples began to pluck heads of grain.
Mar 2:24 And the Pharisees were saying to him, “Look, why are they doing what is not lawful on the Sabbath?”
Mar 2:25 And he said to them, “Have you never read what David did, when he was in need and was hungry, he and those who were with him:
Mar 2:26 how he entered the house of God, in the time of Abiathar the high priest, and ate the bread of the Presence, which it is not lawful for any but the priests to eat, and also gave it to those who were with him?”
Mar 2:27 And he said to them, “The Sabbath was made for man, not man for the Sabbath.
Mar 2:28 So the Son of Man is lord even of the Sabbath.”

In this text the disciples of Jesus are accused of breaking the Sabbath. It might also be helpful to look at the parallel text as it includes more material.


Mat 12:1 At that time Jesus went through the grainfields on the Sabbath. His disciples were hungry, and they began to pluck heads of grain and to eat.
Mat 12:2 But when the Pharisees saw it, they said to him, “Look, your disciples are doing what is not lawful to do on the Sabbath.”
Mat 12:3 He said to them, “Have you not read what David did when he was hungry, and those who were with him:
Mat 12:4 how he entered the house of God and ate the bread of the Presence, which it was not lawful for him to eat nor for those who were with him, but only for the priests?
Mat 12:5 Or have you not read in the Law how on the Sabbath the priests in the temple profane the Sabbath and are guiltless?
Mat 12:6 I tell you, something greater than the temple is here.
Mat 12:7 And if you had known what this means, ‘I desire mercy, and not sacrifice,’ you would not have condemned the guiltless.
Mat 12:8 For the Son of Man is lord of the Sabbath.”


We see a number of things going on. Jesus defends the actions of the disciples in multiple ways.


- Jesus indicates that when David did something that would not normally be allowed, but was doing it in service to the Lord, the Lord did not judge him for this.

- The priests profane the Sabbath but are not guilty. Here He is referencing the offering of extra sacrifices on the Sabbath as outlined in Number 28 that I posted earlier. The Sabbath was more work for the priests, but it was serving the Lord, and commanded for them to do so, and so they were not guilty.

- I demand mercy not sacrifice--This is a short form of some of the other statements Jesus made about how if an animal was needing help on the Sabbath they would do so, indicating that the Sabbath was not meant as a terrible burden, but as a blessing. It is a time of rest from usual work, and is also per Isaiah 58:13-14 meant to be a blessing, spent doing the things of the Lord. So if they are serving the Lord, and not doing regular work, they are again guiltless.

- One greater than the temple is here. This begins the arguments of Jesus that are based on His person. They are trying to Judge the WORD made flesh, the incarnate Son of God. They regard the Sabbath, and the Temple, but He made them both. They have no authority over Him at all.

Joh 1:1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
Joh 1:2 He was in the beginning with God.
Joh 1:3 All things were made through him, and without him was not any thing made that was made.

Joh 1:14 And the Word became flesh and dwelt among us, and we have seen his glory, glory as of the only Son from the Father, full of grace and truth.


- The Son of Man is Lord of the Sabbath. This again is about authority to judge. And this refers to an Old Testament Scripture:

Dan 7:13 “I saw in the night visions, and behold, with the clouds of heaven there came one like a son of man, and he came to the Ancient of Days and was presented before him.
Dan 7:14 And to him was given dominion and glory and a kingdom, that all peoples, nations, and languages should serve him; his dominion is an everlasting dominion, which shall not pass away, and his kingdom one that shall not be destroyed.

Jesus used this name for Himself, "Son of Man" over and over again in the gospels. It pointed people to who He was. He is the One who will reign over all things. They cannot judge Him, but He will judge all. And He is the Lord of the Sabbath, as He is of all things, and He gave it to begin with, so they can hardly tell Him what is the correct way to behave on the Sabbath.


Now it is in this context, and with these complex arguments, that we see the idea that the Sabbath was made for man. This is one of the stronger pro-Sabbath keeping arguments, because the word used is the usual for man or mankind, or even humanity.

Mar 2:27 And he said to them, “The Sabbath was made for man, not man for the Sabbath.
Mar 2:28 So the Son of Man is lord even of the Sabbath.”

The sabbath was made for man--to be a blessing, not a curse. Man was not made to satisfy the Sabbath through slavish legalism.


Now the term here man is an argument that God gave the Sabbath to all. And the reference to "made" also recalls the creation of man, which would remind people of the Creator.

But even here there are some things to consider. The choice of the word "man" appears to be somewhat guided by the word play of the entire phrase.

The Sabbath was made for --man
Not --Man--for the Sabbath
Therefore the Son of --man--Is Lord of the Sabbath.

It does not appear to be an accident, this man, man, Son of Man, wording. So it may just be He chose the word to indicate who He was and to show why trying to judge Him is futile.

On the other hand the Son of Man is a title that emphasizes not just rulership over Israel, but judging all the nations. So it too could be seen as a term indicating all humanity.

Basically on this text it comes down to what you think the point of Him saying it was. But I would put this in the category of stronger text for the pro-Sabbath side.


So to sum up some of the texts in regards to whether the Sabbath is for all, or for only the Jewish people:

Those texts that more indicate for the Jewish people:

- Exodus 31 is the top one, clearly stating a sign for Israel.
- Deuteronomy 5 shows that the Sabbath is also about release from Egypt, and God as their Savior, along with being their Creator.
- Exodus 16 being the first mention of the Sabbath explanation.
- Numbers 28 The Sabbath is one of the appointed times, an appointment, with attendant sacrifices.

Those texts that indicate more for all people:

- Genesis 2 showing God resting and also referring to blessing the Seventh-day and hallowing it.
- Mark 2 The sabbath was made for man.

There are others to factor in as well, but these are some of the basics of the discussion.
 
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tall73

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Another text to consider is Isaiah 56

Isa 56:6 “And the foreigners who join themselves to the LORD, to minister to him, to love the name of the LORD, and to be his servants, everyone who keeps the Sabbath and does not profane it, and holds fast my covenant—

Isa 56:7 these I will bring to my holy mountain, and make them joyful in my house of prayer; their burnt offerings and their sacrifices will be accepted on my altar; for my house shall be called a house of prayer for all peoples.”
Isa 56:8 The Lord GOD, who gathers the outcasts of Israel, declares, “I will gather yet others to him besides those already gathered.”

You may recall that in the Sabbath commandment in Exodus 20 the Sabbath was also observed by the "sojourner who is within your gates".


Exo 20:10 but the seventh day is a Sabbath to the LORD your God. On it you shall not do any work, you, or your son, or your daughter, your male servant, or your female servant, or your livestock, or the sojourner who is within your gates.

When a non-Israelite was staying in an Israelite city they were expected to observe the Sabbath as well.


Isaiah describes something a bit beyond that. Whether a person dwells in the towns of Israel or doesn't, they may

- join themselves to the LORD
- hold fast my covenant

This text is often presented as a pro-Sabbath text, because God indicates that gentiles also may keep the Sabbath when they join themselves to the Lord. However, it is also true that they are holding fast the covenant. A foreigner could essentially join the nation of Israel if they had the faith of Israel.

Another example of this is seen in the regulations for keeping the Passover:

Exo 12:45 No foreigner or hired worker may eat of it.
Exo 12:46 It shall be eaten in one house; you shall not take any of the flesh outside the house, and you shall not break any of its bones.
Exo 12:47 All the congregation of Israel shall keep it.
Exo 12:48 If a stranger shall sojourn with you and would keep the Passover to the LORD, let all his males be circumcised. Then he may come near and keep it; he shall be as a native of the land. But no uncircumcised person shall eat of it.

There is a difference here though because the foreigner was not to keep the Passover just because they were in the land. They had to be circumcised. They would become a native of the land.


So the stranger can keep the Sabbath, whether they are circumcised or not, and is required to when in the gates of Israel, in honor of the Lord.

And if the receive a blessing if they do so and hold fast to the covenant. So this seems to indicate some element of joining themselves to the covenant with Israel. But no mention is made of circumcision.

In the same way in the book of Acts we see "God fearers" who were gentiles who would attend the Synagogues in areas outside of Jerusalem and learn of the Lord. Although we do not know if they were observing the Sabbath there or not. We do know they would attend synagogue on the Sabbath where the Scriptures were read.

So this one is at first glance a pro-Sabbath text, but perhaps not as straight-forward when you examine further.

Why does one have to join themselves to the covenant to keep it regularly, unless they are in the gates? Why not join the other Sabbath keeping gentiles?

Well there are no other Sabbath keeping gentiles referenced in the Scriptures who are not also seeking the Lord through the synagogue, etc.

Overall, I am not sure this decides much, but certainly in that it notes foreigners can keep it, and God wants them to keep it is interesting information. But the context is keeping it by joining themselves to the covenant.

And in Acts 15 we see another aspect of the covenant, physical circumcision, is not required for Gentile believers, nor is keeping the law of Moses.





 
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tall73

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Another text presented by the pro-Sabbath side is Isaiah 66:

Isa 66:18 “For I know their works and their thoughts, and the time is coming to gather all nations and tongues. And they shall come and shall see my glory,
Isa 66:19 and I will set a sign among them. And from them I will send survivors to the nations, to Tarshish, Pul, and Lud, who draw the bow, to Tubal and Javan, to the coastlands far away, that have not heard my fame or seen my glory. And they shall declare my glory among the nations.
Isa 66:20 And they shall bring all your brothers from all the nations as an offering to the LORD, on horses and in chariots and in litters and on mules and on dromedaries, to my holy mountain Jerusalem, says the LORD, just as the Israelites bring their grain offering in a clean vessel to the house of the LORD.
Isa 66:21 And some of them also I will take for priests and for Levites, says the LORD.
Isa 66:22 “For as the new heavens and the new earth that I make shall remain before me, says the LORD, so shall your offspring and your name remain.

Isa 66:23 From new moon to new moon, and from Sabbath to Sabbath, all flesh shall come to worship before me, declares the LORD.
Isa 66:24 “And they shall go out and look on the dead bodies of the men who have rebelled against me. For their worm shall not die, their fire shall not be quenched, and they shall be an abhorrence to all flesh.”

The pro-Sabbath element is pretty clear hear in that it is showing nations assembling before the Lord on the Sabbath in the new earth.


However, this is a complicated text in a few ways.

First it references the new moon as well as the Sabbath. Many sabbatarians consider the new moon to be included in the shadows in Col. 2 and not required. But here they are a time of assembly.

The new moon is referenced in Numbers 28 as an appointed time, the beginning of the month.

And there is another indication of assembly on Sabbath and the new moon:

2Ki 4:22 Then she called to her husband and said, "Send me one of the servants and one of the donkeys, that I may quickly go to the man of God and come back again."
2Ki 4:23 And he said, "Why will you go to him today? It is neither new moon nor Sabbath."


Now some Messianic Christians, usually Jewish believers who observe the law, think that Gentiles should also keep the law, and some don't think that. And this text fits more in line with the view of observing all of it.

But it doesn't line up as well with Seventh-day Adventist theology, or other sabbatarians who do not regard appointed times.

But the other reason this text is complicated is that it is part of a larger narrative in Isaiah, of the new heavens and new earth.

Now when we think of those phrases we usually think of the end of time and the fulfillment spoken of by Peter in plain terms, and by John in symbols:

2Pe 3:7 But by the same word the heavens and earth that now exist are stored up for fire, being kept until the day of judgment and destruction of the ungodly.
2Pe 3:8 But do not overlook this one fact, beloved, that with the Lord one day is as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day.
2Pe 3:9 The Lord is not slow to fulfill his promise as some count slowness, but is patient toward you, not wishing that any should perish, but that all should reach repentance.
2Pe 3:10 But the day of the Lord will come like a thief, and then the heavens will pass away with a roar, and the heavenly bodies will be burned up and dissolved, and the earth and the works that are done on it will be exposed.
2Pe 3:11 Since all these things are thus to be dissolved, what sort of people ought you to be in lives of holiness and godliness,
2Pe 3:12 waiting for and hastening the coming of the day of God, because of which the heavens will be set on fire and dissolved, and the heavenly bodies will melt as they burn!

2Pe 3:13 But according to his promise we are waiting for new heavens and a new earth in which righteousness dwells.

Rev 21:1 Then I saw a new heaven and a new earth, for the first heaven and the first earth had passed away, and the sea was no more.
Rev 21:2 And I saw the holy city, new Jerusalem, coming down out of heaven from God, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband.
Rev 21:3 And I heard a loud voice from the throne saying, “Behold, the dwelling place of God is with man. He will dwell with them, and they will be his people, and God himself will be with them as their God.
Rev 21:4 He will wipe away every tear from their eyes, and death shall be no more, neither shall there be mourning, nor crying, nor pain anymore, for the former things have passed away.”


However, in Isaiah we encounter some things we wouldn't expect in the new heaven an new earth based on the above texts:

Isa 66:20 And they shall bring all your brothers from all the nations as an offering to the LORD, on horses and in chariots and in litters and on mules and on dromedaries, to my holy mountain Jerusalem, says the LORD, just as the Israelites bring their grain offering in a clean vessel to the house of the LORD.
Isa 66:21 And some of them also I will take for priests and for Levites, says the LORD.


There will be levitical priests and levites ministering.


Yet in the new testament we have Christ as the better High Priest of the new covenant not of the house of Levi, but after the order of Melchizedek.

Heb 7:11 Now if perfection had been attainable through the Levitical priesthood (for under it the people received the law), what further need would there have been for another priest to arise after the order of Melchizedek, rather than one named after the order of Aaron?
Heb 7:12 For when there is a change in the priesthood, there is necessarily a change in the law as well.
Heb 7:13 For the one of whom these things are spoken belonged to another tribe, from which no one has ever served at the altar.
Heb 7:14 For it is evident that our Lord was descended from Judah, and in connection with that tribe Moses said nothing about priests.
Heb 7:15 This becomes even more evident when another priest arises in the likeness of Melchizedek,
Heb 7:16 who has become a priest, not on the basis of a legal requirement concerning bodily descent, but by the power of an indestructible life.
Heb 7:17 For it is witnessed of him, “You are a priest forever, after the order of Melchizedek.”
Heb 7:18 For on the one hand, a former commandment is set aside because of its weakness and uselessness
Heb 7:19 (for the law made nothing perfect); but on the other hand, a better hope is introduced, through which we draw near to God.
Heb 7:20 And it was not without an oath. For those who formerly became priests were made such without an oath,

Heb 7:21 but this one was made a priest with an oath by the one who said to him: “The Lord has sworn and will not change his mind, ‘You are a priest forever.’”
Heb 7:22 This makes Jesus the guarantor of a better covenant.

Heb 7:23 The former priests were many in number, because they were prevented by death from continuing in office,
Heb 7:24 but he holds his priesthood permanently, because he continues forever.
Heb 7:25 Consequently, he is able to save to the uttermost those who draw near to God through him, since he always lives to make intercession for them.
Heb 7:26 For it was indeed fitting that we should have such a high priest, holy, innocent, unstained, separated from sinners, and exalted above the heavens.
Heb 7:27 He has no need, like those high priests, to offer sacrifices daily, first for his own sins and then for those of the people, since he did this once for all when he offered up himself.

Heb 7:28 For the law appoints men in their weakness as high priests, but the word of the oath, which came later than the law, appoints a Son who has been made perfect forever.

And in the new covenant we all can go boldly to the throne of grace and are priests of God into the true sanctuary in heaven, under our High Priest:


Heb 4:14 Since then we have a great high priest who has passed through the heavens, Jesus, the Son of God, let us hold fast our confession.
Heb 4:15 For we do not have a high priest who is unable to sympathize with our weaknesses, but one who in every respect has been tempted as we are, yet without sin.

Heb 4:16 Let us then with confidence draw near to the throne of grace, that we may receive mercy and find grace to help in time of need.

Heb 10:11 And every priest stands daily at his service, offering repeatedly the same sacrifices, which can never take away sins.
Heb 10:12 But when Christ had offered for all time a single sacrifice for sins, he sat down at the right hand of God,
Heb 10:13 waiting from that time until his enemies should be made a footstool for his feet.
Heb 10:14 For by a single offering he has perfected for all time those who are being sanctified.
Heb 10:15 And the Holy Spirit also bears witness to us; for after saying,
Heb 10:16 “This is the covenant that I will make with them after those days, declares the Lord: I will put my laws on their hearts, and write them on their minds,”
Heb 10:17 then he adds, “I will remember their sins and their lawless deeds no more.”
Heb 10:18 Where there is forgiveness of these, there is no longer any offering for sin.

Heb 10:19 Therefore, brothers, since we have confidence to enter the holy places by the blood of Jesus,
Heb 10:20 by the new and living way that he opened for us through the curtain, that is, through his flesh,
Heb 10:21 and since we have a great priest over the house of God,
Heb 10:22 let us draw near with a true heart in full assurance of faith, with our hearts sprinkled clean from an evil conscience and our bodies washed with pure water.

Heb 10:23 Let us hold fast the confession of our hope without wavering, for he who promised is faithful.

We have access to the true sanctuary in heaven that exceeds that of the earthly priest, and we have been sprinkled and washed, which recalls the consecration of the priests in the old covenant. We approach our great High Priest with boldness because it is by Him we are made pure, and we go to Him to receive help in time of need. He made one sacrifice for sins.


So the notion of priests and Levites seems out of place if this is referring to the end times new heavens and earth. But more than that, there will also be sinners still present and there will still be death in the new heavens and new earth spoken of in Isaiah:


Isa 65:17 "For behold, I create new heavens and a new earth, and the former things shall not be remembered or come into mind.
Isa 65:18 But be glad and rejoice forever in that which I create; for behold, I create Jerusalem to be a joy, and her people to be a gladness.
Isa 65:19 I will rejoice in Jerusalem and be glad in my people; no more shall be heard in it the sound of weeping and the cry of distress.
Isa 65:20 No more shall there be in it an infant who lives but a few days, or an old man who does not fill out his days, for the young man shall die a hundred years old, and the sinner a hundred years old shall be accursed.
Isa 65:21 They shall build houses and inhabit them; they shall plant vineyards and eat their fruit.
Isa 65:22 They shall not build and another inhabit; they shall not plant and another eat; for like the days of a tree shall the days of my people be, and my chosen shall long enjoy the work of their hands.
Isa 65:23 They shall not labor in vain or bear children for calamity, for they shall be the offspring of the blessed of the LORD, and their descendants with them.
Isa 65:24 Before they call I will answer; while they are yet speaking I will hear.
Isa 65:25 The wolf and the lamb shall graze together; the lion shall eat straw like the ox, and dust shall be the serpent's food. They shall not hurt or destroy in all my holy mountain," says the LORD.


Again this does not match up with the fulfillment in 2 Peter or Revelation.


So we have to examine a bit more about this new heaven and new earth theme in Isiah to understand the text here.



 
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