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jayem

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You mean her life or mental health? Mental depression of a woman faced with an unwanted pregnancy is a temporary condition while death is permanent and final

Those bad emotions will worsen if the woman decides to commit a crime worse than rape: murder. She will add guilt to pain and sadness in the event she decides to kill the baby.

I was referring to life-threatening physical illness, but major mental conditions are physical illnesses. They are brain disorders. Postpartum depression is a serious complication of giving birth. It's treatable, but can be severe. The wife of a colleague of mine committed suicide about 10 weeks after her baby was born. Even more severe, but fortunately less common, is postpartum psychosis. It's a thought disorder similar to schizophrenia. There's a significant of suicide and infanticide. That woman in TX who drowned her newborn, along with her older children had postpartum psychosis. She'd had a milder episode after a previous pregnancy, and was warned that she should never get pregnant again because it could relapse more severely. But her husband wanted another child. And he wound up losing all of his kids.
 
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St_Worm2

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No, the only reason that some writers claim that a premature birth is indicated is because of their circular reasoning. They assume that the Bible is anti-abortion so they reinterpret that verse the only way that they can. And a premature birth in those days was an almost guaranteed death sentence for the baby. For you to claim that the verse needs to be far more specific.

Hi SZ, this passage's word order, IOW, the way it reads (in the original, the translation, and/or in the paraphrase) indicates that both mother and child are in view (to impose a pro-abortion interpretation on these verses can only be done then by way of conjecture).

There is also no indication in the text that the birth, spoken of in v22, left the baby dead or alive, only that a premature birth occurred (again, to read anything else into the text can only be done, as you have, by conjecture).

I will agree with you in this however, it would be helpful if this passage had been written in such a way that no room was left for conjecture as to its meaning, but we have to work with what we have. So I think that the best thing to do is to move on to see what else the Bible has to say about the personhood of an unborn child (as well as science, because it's a little hard for me to believe that you, an atheist, would put any stock in what the Bible has to say, one way or the other ;)).

--David
 
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jayem

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There is a moral law written by God’s finger on tablets of stone, and human law voted by nine unelected Justices of the Court. Which law is superior? The Bible tells us that we must obey God rather than men:


What you call is God's law is just another human law. Written by the priestly class of a superstitious Bronze Age tribe. Much of which has no relevance at all in the 21st century.
 
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KingDavid403

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Hi SZ, this passage's word order, IOW, the way it reads (in the original, the translation, and/or in the paraphrase) indicates that both mother and child are in view (to impose a pro-abortion interpretation on these verses can only be done then by way of conjecture).

There is also no indication in the text that the birth, spoken of in v22, left the baby dead or alive, only that a premature birth occurred (again, to read anything else into the text can only be done, as you have, by conjecture).

I will agree with you in this however, it would be helpful if this passage had been written in such a way that no room was left for conjecture as to its meaning, but we have to work with what we have. So I think that the best thing to do is to move on to see what else the Bible has to say about the personhood of an unborn child (as well as science, because it's a little hard for me to believe that you, an atheist, would put any stock in what the Bible has to say, one way or the other ;)).

--David
Hello David,
Please move on to see what else the Bible has to say about the personhood of a fetus without any conjecture. I look foreword to responding.
 
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KingDavid403

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Those bad emotions will worsen if the woman decides to commit a crime worse than rape: murder. She will add guilt to pain and sadness in the event she decides to kill the baby.
[Matthew 12:7 NKJV] Jesus said: "But if you had known what [this] means, 'I desire mercy and not sacrifice,' you would not have condemned the guiltless." Your wanting to force rape victims by law to carry an egg with a sperm cell in it from their rapist to a full-term baby, that will be in the splitting image of their rapist, is the most disgusting thing I have ever heard. Leave it to those who call themselves Christians to come up with this statement from hell. You have no idea who Christ is or the trauma that women and young girls go through from being a victim of rape.
 
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PapaZoom

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[Matthew 12:7 NKJV] Jesus said: "But if you had known what [this] means, 'I desire mercy and not sacrifice,' you would not have condemned the guiltless." Your wanting to force rape victims by law to carry an egg with a sperm cell in it from their rapist to a full-term baby, that will be in the splitting image of their rapist, is the most disgusting thing I have ever heard. Leave it to those who call themselves Christians to come up with this statement from hell. You have no idea who Christ is.
There is no such thing as an egg with a sperm cell in it. There is no such thing as a fertilized egg for that matter. And a baby conceived is also from the mother. The unborn baby (unborn human being is that word bothers folks) has done nothing wrong and in spite of the circumstances deserves a chance at being born. It is already an alive and fully human being so to kill it is unjust.
 
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Hi SZ, this passage's word order, IOW, the way it reads (in the original, the translation, and/or in the paraphrase) indicates that both mother and child are in view (to impose a pro-abortion interpretation on these verses can only be done then by way of conjecture).

There is also no indication in the text that the birth, spoken of in v22, left the baby dead or alive, only that a premature birth occurred (again, to read anything else into the text can only be done, as you have, by conjecture).

I will agree with you in this however, it would be helpful if this passage had been written in such a way that no room was left for conjecture as to its meaning, but we have to work with what we have. So I think that the best thing to do is to move on to see what else the Bible has to say about the personhood of an unborn child (as well as science, because it's a little hard for me to believe that you, an atheist, would put any stock in what the Bible has to say, one way or the other ;)).

--David
Sorry but you are simply grasping at straws. You assume that the Bible is anti-abortion so you have to interpret that verse to support your prejudice.

The fact is that nowhere in the Bible does it say that abortion is murder. If you study Jewish history you will find that they believed the soul entered the body with the first breath. If no first breath was taken there was no soul.
 
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KingDavid403

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There is no such thing as an egg with a sperm cell in it. There is no such thing as a fertilized egg for that matter. And a baby conceived is also from the mother. The unborn baby (unborn human being is that word bothers folks) has done nothing wrong and in spite of the circumstances deserves a chance at being born. It is already an alive and fully human being so to kill it is unjust.
Yes, there is such a thing as an egg with a sperm cell in it. Goggle "images of a fertilized egg" You can even look at pics of it. Then try and tell yourself that this is a person. If you convince yourself of this lie, then you are doing nothing by lying to yourself to prove your stance. It is not alive anymore than one of my sperm cells. It is not a baby in anyway, shape, or form. Again, Your wanting to force rape victims by law to carry an egg with a sperm cell in it from their rapist to a full-term baby, that will be in the splitting image of their rapist, is the most disgusting thing I have ever heard. Leave it to those who call themselves Christians to come up with this statement from hell. You have no idea who Christ is or the trauma that women and young girls go through from being a victim of rape. BTW, it is NOT alive and cannot be killed since it is not alive. It is NOT an unborn human, it is a glob of cells growing to first become a fetus and then a possible person if it makes it through birth and lives.
 
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KingDavid403

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Sorry but you are simply grasping at straws. You assume that the Bible is anti-abortion so you have to interpret that verse to support your prejudice.

The fact is that nowhere in the Bible does it say that abortion is murder. If you study Jewish history you will find that they believed the soul entered the body with the first breath. If no first breath was taken there was no soul.
Exactly! :)
After God formed man in Genesis 2:7, He “breathed into his nostrils the breath of life and it was then that the man became a living being”. Although the man was fully formed by God in all respects, he was not a living being until after taking his first breath.

In Job 33:4, it states: “The spirit of God has made me, and the breath of the Almighty gives me life.”

Again, to quote Ezekiel 37:5&6, “Thus says the Lord God to these bones: Behold, I will cause breath to enter you, and you shall live. And I will lay sinews upon you, and will cause flesh to come upon you, and cover you with skin, and put breath in you, and you shall live; and you shall know that I am the Lord.”
There is nothing in the bible to indicate that a fetus is considered to be anything other than living tissue and, according to scripture, it does not become a living being until after it has taken a breath.
Many cite the scripture Jeremiah 1:5, "Before I formed you in the womb I knew you, before you were born I set you apart; I appointed you as a prophet to the nations." God is omnipotent. He has known all of us since before creation. This scripture is irrelevant as it pertains to when a fetus becomes a living being. The same reasoning applies to Psalm 139:13-14.

Numbers 5 describes "the Lord" ordering an abortion. Many argue that this is a misinterpretation. It is clearly stated in verse 22, "May this water that brings a curse enter your body so that your abdomen swells and your womb miscarries."

Before extremists turned the issue of reproductive choice into a political football, views on this matter were weren't nearly so drastic. For some history, read "The ‘biblical view’ that’s younger than the Happy Meal" Then check out, The Not-So-Lofty Origins of the Evangelical Pro-Life Movement. and How I Lost Faith in the “Pro-Life” Movement.

In 1973, Wallie Amos ‘W. A.’ Criswell, President of the Southern Baptist Convention from 1968 to 1970, said this:
“I have always felt that it was only after a child was born and had a life separate from its mother that it became an individual person, and it has always, therefore, seemed to me that what is best for the mother and for the future should be allowed."

If you don't like abortion, don't have one. But don't judge others who may be in terrible circumstances that you can't possibly understand. Especially when your judgements are based on a politically motivated and questionable interpretation of the Bible (at best). When women don’t have personal choice over their own reproductive decisions they end up butchered in back alley abortions or thrown in jail for having a miscarriage. Certain types of birth control are outlawed when a fertilized egg is classified as a “person” as well.

Those who say, "If you're a Christian, you have to be against abortion, and therefore you must vote republican," are simply reciting talking points from false teachers.
 
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St_Worm2

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Leave it to those who call themselves Christians to come up with this statement from hell. You have no idea who Christ is.

Hi KD, I see you are pretty new here so I thought I should tell you that while you are welcome/expected to strenuously defend your POV, what you are not allowed to do is suggest, even in the form of a subtle ad hominem, that those who claim to be Christians here are anything else, even if their opinion differs greatly from yours. Nic is 7th Day, and perhaps you don't consider them Christians, but that's an opinion you'll need to keep to yourself when posting at CF.

That said, do you really believe it's wrong to think that the individual growing in the womb of a rape victim, who is absolutely innocent of wrongdoing, has no rights whatsoever :scratch: If life is chosen instead of abortion, at least you don't have one violent crime, rape, being compounded by another violent crime, murder.

Choosing to preserve the life of an innocent baby is never a statement that comes from the pit of Hell :preach:

Yours and His,
David
p.s. - our opinions of abortion aside, let me also say, WELCOME TO CF .. :wave: (which I should have said to you in my first, sorry about that!)
 
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Hi KD, I see you are pretty new here so I thought I should tell you that while you are welcome/expected to strenuously defend your POV, what you are not allowed to do is suggest, even in the form of a subtle ad hominem, that those who claim to be Christians here are anything else, even if their opinion differs greatly from yours. Nic is 7th Day, and perhaps you don't consider them Christians, but that's an opinion you'll need to keep to yourself when posting at CF.

That said, do you really believe it's wrong to think that the individual growing in the womb of a rape victim, who is absolutely innocent of wrongdoing, has no rights whatsoever :scratch: If life is chosen instead of abortion, at least you don't have one violent crime, rape, being compounded by another violent crime, murder.

Choosing to preserve the life of an innocent baby is never a statement that comes from the pit of Hell :preach:

Yours and His,
David
p.s. - our opinions of abortion aside, let me also say, WELCOME TO CF .. :wave: (which I should have said to you in my first, sorry about that!)
The problem is that not all believe that a fetus is a "baby". It is not a viewpoint that is clearly supported by the Bible at all. In fact that a fetus is not a person can be argued using the Bible. You won't convince others and they will not convince you. All that can be done is to place your argument here. It is not wise to call abortion murder if you want to have a reasonable discussion. It clearly is not murder since murder is a crime and like it or not abortion is currently legal in most countries with a high percentage of Christians.
 
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PapaZoom

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Yes, there is such a thing as an egg with a sperm cell in it. Goggle "images of a fertilized egg" You can even look at pics of it. Then try and tell yourself that this is a person. If you convince yourself of this lie, then you are an absolute fool. It is not alive anymore than one of my sperm cells. It is not a baby in anyway, shape, or form. Again, Your wanting to force rape victims by law to carry an egg with a sperm cell in it from their rapist to a full-term baby, that will be in the splitting image of their rapist, is the most disgusting thing I have ever heard. Leave it to those who call themselves Christians to come up with this statement from hell. You have no idea who Christ is or the trauma that women and young girls go through from being a victim of rape. BTW, it is NOT alive and cannot be killed since it is not alive. It is NOT an unborn human, it is a glob of cells growing to first become a fetus and then a possible person if it makes it through birth.

No there isn't. Once the egg has been fertilized, the sperm no longer exists and neither does the egg. They fuse together and immediately the egg changes. The sperm is absorbed and a new entity comes into existence. "After sperm entry, changes occur is the fertilized egg to prevent other sperm from gaining entry. Of the millions of sperm [bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse] by a male, only one can penetrate an oocyte. Fertilization occurs at the moment the genetic material of a sperm combines with that of an ovum to form a fertilized egg, or zygote. The zygote represents the first cell of the new individual."

There is no longer an egg at this moment. It's a zygote and it contains all the DNA information for the new individual. No more is added. The sperm no longer exists and neither does the egg. This is a basic biological fact. There is still reference to a fertilized egg but that's just for ease of explanation. From a scientific perspective, there is no such thing as a fertilized egg. One fertilized, the egg is no longer and the sperm and egg have fused together into something new: a zygote. A zygote is not really the same as a fertilized egg because the egg is no more just as the sperm is no more. (any more than you are part egg and part sperm today!)

The sperm is alive and so is the egg. The zygote is very much alive and this too is a biological fact. What's different is that with fertilization, a new and unique human being comes into existence. Basic embryology of which I've studied.

You sound angry and name calling isn't necessary. I'll find some specific scientific information to clear up the confusion you clearly have. In the meantime, take a chill pill. People have a different opinion than do you.
 
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PapaZoom

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Life Begins at Fertilization
The following references illustrate the fact that a new human embryo, the starting point for a human life, comes into existence with the formation of the one-celled zygote:




"Development of the embryo begins at Stage 1 when a sperm fertilizes an oocyte and together they form a zygote."
[England, Marjorie A. Life Before Birth. 2nd ed. England: Mosby-Wolfe, 1996, p.31]


"Human development begins after the union of male and female gametes or germ cells during a process known as fertilization (conception).
"Fertilization is a sequence of events that begins with the contact of a sperm (spermatozoon) with a secondary oocyte (ovum) and ends with the fusion of their pronuclei (the haploid nuclei of the sperm and ovum) and the mingling of their chromosomes to form a new cell. This fertilized ovum, known as a zygote, is a large diploid cell that is the beginning, or primordium, of a human being."
[Moore, Keith L. Essentials of Human Embryology. Toronto: B.C. Decker Inc, 1988, p.2]


"Embryo: the developing organism from the time of fertilization until significant differentiation has occurred, when the organism becomes known as a fetus."
[Cloning Human Beings. Report and Recommendations of the National Bioethics Advisory Commission. Rockville, MD: GPO, 1997, Appendix-2.]


"Embryo: An organism in the earliest stage of development; in a man, from the time of conception to the end of the second month in the uterus."
[Dox, Ida G. et al. The Harper Collins Illustrated Medical Dictionary. New York: Harper Perennial, 1993, p. 146]


"Embryo: The early developing fertilized egg that is growing into another individual of the species. In man the term 'embryo' is usually restricted to the period of development from fertilization until the end of the eighth week of pregnancy."
[Walters, William and Singer, Peter (eds.). Test-Tube Babies. Melbourne: Oxford University Press, 1982, p. 160]


"The development of a human being begins with fertilization, a process by which two highly specialized cells, the spermatozoon from the male and the oocyte from the female, unite to give rise to a new organism, the zygote."
[Langman, Jan. Medical Embryology. 3rd edition. Baltimore: Williams and Wilkins, 1975, p. 3]


"Embryo: The developing individual between the union of the germ cells and the completion of the organs which characterize its body when it becomes a separate organism.... At the moment the sperm cell of the human male meets the ovum of the female and the union results in a fertilized ovum (zygote), a new life has begun.... The term embryo covers the several stages of early development from conception to the ninth or tenth week of life."
[Considine, Douglas (ed.). Van Nostrand's Scientific Encyclopedia. 5th edition. New York: Van Nostrand Reinhold Company, 1976, p. 943]


"I would say that among most scientists, the word 'embryo' includes the time from after fertilization..."
[Dr. John Eppig, Senior Staff Scientist, Jackson Laboratory (Bar Harbor, Maine) and Member of the NIH Human Embryo Research Panel -- Panel Transcript, February 2, 1994, p. 31]


"The development of a human begins with fertilization, a process by which the spermatozoon from the male and the oocyte from the female unite to give rise to a new organism, the zygote."
[Sadler, T.W. Langman's Medical Embryology. 7th edition. Baltimore: Williams & Wilkins 1995, p. 3]


"The question came up of what is an embryo, when does an embryo exist, when does it occur. I think, as you know, that in development, life is a continuum.... But I think one of the useful definitions that has come out, especially from Germany, has been the stage at which these two nuclei [from sperm and egg] come together and the membranes between the two break down."
[Jonathan Van Blerkom of University of Colorado, expert witness on human embryology before the NIH Human Embryo Research Panel -- Panel Transcript, February 2, 1994, p. 63]


"Zygote. This cell, formed by the union of an ovum and a sperm (Gr. zyg tos, yoked together), represents the beginning of a human being. The common expression 'fertilized ovum' refers to the zygote."
[Moore, Keith L. and Persaud, T.V.N. Before We Are Born: Essentials of Embryology and Birth Defects. 4th edition. Philadelphia: W.B. Saunders Company, 1993, p. 1]


"The chromosomes of the oocyte and sperm are...respectively enclosed within female and male pronuclei. These pronuclei fuse with each other to produce the single, diploid, 2N nucleus of the fertilized zygote. This moment of zygote formation may be taken as the beginning or zero time point of embryonic development."
[Larsen, William J. Human Embryology. 2nd edition. New York: Churchill Livingstone, 1997, p. 17]


"Although life is a continuous process, fertilization is a critical landmark because, under ordinary circumstances, a new, genetically distinct human organism is thereby formed.... The combination of 23 chromosomes present in each pronucleus results in 46 chromosomes in the zygote. Thus the diploid number is restored and the embryonic genome is formed. The embryo now exists as a genetic unity."
[O'Rahilly, Ronan and M�ller, Fabiola. Human Embryology & Teratology. 2nd edition. New York: Wiley-Liss, 1996, pp. 8, 29. This textbook lists "pre-embryo" among "discarded and replaced terms" in modern embryology, describing it as "ill-defined and inaccurate" (p. 12}]


"Almost all higher animals start their lives from a single cell, the fertilized ovum (zygote)... The time of fertilization represents the starting point in the life history, or ontogeny, of the individual."
[Carlson, Bruce M. Patten's Foundations of Embryology. 6th edition. New York: McGraw-Hill, 1996, p. 3]


"[A]nimal biologists use the term embryo to describe the single cell stage, the two-cell stage, and all subsequent stages up until a time when recognizable humanlike limbs and facial features begin to appear between six to eight weeks after fertilization....
"[A] number of specialists working in the field of human reproduction have suggested that we stop using the word embryo to describe the developing entity that exists for the first two weeks after fertilization. In its place, they proposed the term pre-embryo....
"I'll let you in on a secret. The term pre-embryo has been embraced wholeheartedly by IVF practitioners for reasons that are political, not scientific. The new term is used to provide the illusion that there is something profoundly different between what we nonmedical biologists still call a six-day-old embryo and what we and everyone else call a sixteen-day-old embryo.
"The term pre-embryo is useful in the political arena -- where decisions are made about whether to allow early embryo (now called pre-embryo) experimentation -- as well as in the confines of a doctor's office, where it can be used to allay moral concerns that might be expressed by IVF patients. 'Don't worry,' a doctor might say, 'it's only pre-embryos that we're manipulating or freezing. They won't turn into real human embryos until after we've put them back into your body.'"
[Silver, Lee M. Remaking Eden: Cloning and Beyond in a Brave New World. New York: Avon Books, 1997, p. 39]
 
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KingDavid403

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Hi KD, I see you are pretty new here so I thought I should tell you that while you are welcome/expected to strenuously defend your POV, what you are not allowed to do is suggest, even in the form of a subtle ad hominem, that those who claim to be Christians here are anything else, even if their opinion differs greatly from yours. Nic is 7th Day, and perhaps you don't consider them Christians, but that's an opinion you'll need to keep to yourself when posting at CF.

That said, do you really believe it's wrong to think that the individual growing in the womb of a rape victim, who is absolutely innocent of wrongdoing, has no rights whatsoever :scratch: If life is chosen instead of abortion, at least you don't have one violent crime, rape, being compounded by another violent crime, murder.

Choosing to preserve the life of an innocent baby is never a statement that comes from the pit of Hell :preach:

Yours and His,
David
p.s. - our opinions of abortion aside, let me also say, WELCOME TO CF .. :wave: (which I should have said to you in my first, sorry about that!)
Hello David,
Thank you for the welcome. I was a member of this site well over a decade ago when it was an MSN chat-room forum. About 15 years ago. I just recently returned. I never said anyone was not a Christian. I said they have no idea who Christ is if they think raped women should be forced by law to carry an egg with a sperm cell in it from a rapist to a full-term baby. I stand by my statement. I never said they were not Christians. Furthermore, the Bible does not say anything about becoming Christians. It says to become Disciples of Christ. Big difference. Anyone can call themselves a Christian. You will know a disciple of Christ by their fruits and actions; and, if they are truly attempting to follow Christ.
It does not matter what denomination you are a member of as long as Jesus is your Lord and Savior. All denominations have different beliefs.
David, I do not believe that a fertilized egg is an individual in anyway, shape, or form. Period. It may become an individual if it makes it through birth and survives. Do you actually think miscarriages and stillborn were persons? God knew us all before we were in the womb and I believe in His Sovereignty. I know He would not place our souls and spirits into a fetus that is going to be aborted, miscarried, or stillborn. Simple as that.
Why do you think God killed King Davids new born son with Bathsheba?
Why do you think God had the Israelite's kill all the new born babies and unborn fetus's when taking the Promise-land? Why did not God just have them adopt them and raise them as there own? Food for thought.
God Bless,
David
 
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Fertilization: Sperm Penetrates Egg
It takes about 24 hours for a sperm cell to fertilize an egg. When the sperm penetrates the egg, the surface of the egg changes so that no other sperm can enter. At the moment of fertilization, the baby's genetic makeup is complete, including whether it's a boy or girl.

http://www.webmd.com/baby/ss/slideshow-conception
 
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KingDavid403

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Life Begins at Fertilization
The following references illustrate the fact that a new human embryo, the starting point for a human life, comes into existence with the formation of the one-celled zygote:




"Development of the embryo begins at Stage 1 when a sperm fertilizes an oocyte and together they form a zygote."
[England, Marjorie A. Life Before Birth. 2nd ed. England: Mosby-Wolfe, 1996, p.31]


"Human development begins after the union of male and female gametes or germ cells during a process known as fertilization (conception).
"Fertilization is a sequence of events that begins with the contact of a sperm (spermatozoon) with a secondary oocyte (ovum) and ends with the fusion of their pronuclei (the haploid nuclei of the sperm and ovum) and the mingling of their chromosomes to form a new cell. This fertilized ovum, known as a zygote, is a large diploid cell that is the beginning, or primordium, of a human being."
[Moore, Keith L. Essentials of Human Embryology. Toronto: B.C. Decker Inc, 1988, p.2]
So all miscarriages and stillborn were persons? You have no idea what you are talking about. You are just clinging at the same straws that the pro-life movement grasps at and it is not based on any scientific fact. Sorry son.

"Embryo: the developing organism from the time of fertilization until significant differentiation has occurred, when the organism becomes known as a fetus."
[Cloning Human Beings. Report and Recommendations of the National Bioethics Advisory Commission. Rockville, MD: GPO, 1997, Appendix-2.]


"Embryo: An organism in the earliest stage of development; in a man, from the time of conception to the end of the second month in the uterus."
[Dox, Ida G. et al. The Harper Collins Illustrated Medical Dictionary. New York: Harper Perennial, 1993, p. 146]


"Embryo: The early developing fertilized egg that is growing into another individual of the species. In man the term 'embryo' is usually restricted to the period of development from fertilization until the end of the eighth week of pregnancy."
[Walters, William and Singer, Peter (eds.). Test-Tube Babies. Melbourne: Oxford University Press, 1982, p. 160]


"The development of a human being begins with fertilization, a process by which two highly specialized cells, the spermatozoon from the male and the oocyte from the female, unite to give rise to a new organism, the zygote."
[Langman, Jan. Medical Embryology. 3rd edition. Baltimore: Williams and Wilkins, 1975, p. 3]


"Embryo: The developing individual between the union of the germ cells and the completion of the organs which characterize its body when it becomes a separate organism.... At the moment the sperm cell of the human male meets the ovum of the female and the union results in a fertilized ovum (zygote), a new life has begun.... The term embryo covers the several stages of early development from conception to the ninth or tenth week of life."
[Considine, Douglas (ed.). Van Nostrand's Scientific Encyclopedia. 5th edition. New York: Van Nostrand Reinhold Company, 1976, p. 943]


"I would say that among most scientists, the word 'embryo' includes the time from after fertilization..."
[Dr. John Eppig, Senior Staff Scientist, Jackson Laboratory (Bar Harbor, Maine) and Member of the NIH Human Embryo Research Panel -- Panel Transcript, February 2, 1994, p. 31]


"The development of a human begins with fertilization, a process by which the spermatozoon from the male and the oocyte from the female unite to give rise to a new organism, the zygote."
[Sadler, T.W. Langman's Medical Embryology. 7th edition. Baltimore: Williams & Wilkins 1995, p. 3]


"The question came up of what is an embryo, when does an embryo exist, when does it occur. I think, as you know, that in development, life is a continuum.... But I think one of the useful definitions that has come out, especially from Germany, has been the stage at which these two nuclei [from sperm and egg] come together and the membranes between the two break down."
[Jonathan Van Blerkom of University of Colorado, expert witness on human embryology before the NIH Human Embryo Research Panel -- Panel Transcript, February 2, 1994, p. 63]


"Zygote. This cell, formed by the union of an ovum and a sperm (Gr. zyg tos, yoked together), represents the beginning of a human being. The common expression 'fertilized ovum' refers to the zygote."
[Moore, Keith L. and Persaud, T.V.N. Before We Are Born: Essentials of Embryology and Birth Defects. 4th edition. Philadelphia: W.B. Saunders Company, 1993, p. 1]


"The chromosomes of the oocyte and sperm are...respectively enclosed within female and male pronuclei. These pronuclei fuse with each other to produce the single, diploid, 2N nucleus of the fertilized zygote. This moment of zygote formation may be taken as the beginning or zero time point of embryonic development."
[Larsen, William J. Human Embryology. 2nd edition. New York: Churchill Livingstone, 1997, p. 17]


"Although life is a continuous process, fertilization is a critical landmark because, under ordinary circumstances, a new, genetically distinct human organism is thereby formed.... The combination of 23 chromosomes present in each pronucleus results in 46 chromosomes in the zygote. Thus the diploid number is restored and the embryonic genome is formed. The embryo now exists as a genetic unity."
[O'Rahilly, Ronan and M�ller, Fabiola. Human Embryology & Teratology. 2nd edition. New York: Wiley-Liss, 1996, pp. 8, 29. This textbook lists "pre-embryo" among "discarded and replaced terms" in modern embryology, describing it as "ill-defined and inaccurate" (p. 12}]


"Almost all higher animals start their lives from a single cell, the fertilized ovum (zygote)... The time of fertilization represents the starting point in the life history, or ontogeny, of the individual."
[Carlson, Bruce M. Patten's Foundations of Embryology. 6th edition. New York: McGraw-Hill, 1996, p. 3]


"[A]nimal biologists use the term embryo to describe the single cell stage, the two-cell stage, and all subsequent stages up until a time when recognizable humanlike limbs and facial features begin to appear between six to eight weeks after fertilization....
"[A] number of specialists working in the field of human reproduction have suggested that we stop using the word embryo to describe the developing entity that exists for the first two weeks after fertilization. In its place, they proposed the term pre-embryo....
"I'll let you in on a secret. The term pre-embryo has been embraced wholeheartedly by IVF practitioners for reasons that are political, not scientific. The new term is used to provide the illusion that there is something profoundly different between what we nonmedical biologists still call a six-day-old embryo and what we and everyone else call a sixteen-day-old embryo.
"The term pre-embryo is useful in the political arena -- where decisions are made about whether to allow early embryo (now called pre-embryo) experimentation -- as well as in the confines of a doctor's office, where it can be used to allay moral concerns that might be expressed by IVF patients. 'Don't worry,' a doctor might say, 'it's only pre-embryos that we're manipulating or freezing. They won't turn into real human embryos until after we've put them back into your body.'"
[Silver, Lee M. Remaking Eden: Cloning and Beyond in a Brave New World. New York: Avon Books, 1997, p. 39]

Yes, embryo, zygote, fetus, but not human person , or a live baby. It is not a person until it is born. The Bible tells us so.
 
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KingDavid403

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Fertilization: Sperm Penetrates Egg
It takes about 24 hours for a sperm cell to fertilize an egg. When the sperm penetrates the egg, the surface of the egg changes so that no other sperm can enter. At the moment of fertilization, the baby's genetic makeup is complete, including whether it's a boy or girl.

http://www.webmd.com/baby/ss/slideshow-conception
Incorrect. sometimes several sperm enter an egg. Thus, identical twins, triplets, etc. etc.
 
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Subduction Zone

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Incorrect. sometimes several sperm enter an egg. Thus, identical twins, triplets, etc. etc.
Um, no. Identical twins occur when an egg splits after fertilization by one sperm. That is why they have identical DNA. Fraternal twins and most higher numbers occur when multiple eggs are released during ovulation. We see a lot more of that today due to the use of fertility drugs.
 
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