Abortion Discussion

[AirPo]

Prove that what is killed in an abortion is a "person" and we'll all agree it's murder. Until that time, however, your premise is flawed.

I have to disagree with your thinking here. The legality is not dependent on what word is used. It's based on the rights of the individules involved. Up to a certain point, the rights of the mother trump the rights of <insert your favorite word which does not change the argument at all.>

 

[AirPo]

Yes, I do. Do you think that the government has the moral right to legalize what God has forbidden?

The government is not bound by your interpretation of what God has forbidden.

 

[Armoured]

To

I have to disagree with your thinking here. The legality is not dependent on what word is used. It's based on the rights of the individules involved. Up to a certain point, the rights of the mother trump the rights of <insert your favorite word which does not change the argument at all.>

Me it absolutely changes the argument. Sorry.

 

[AirPo]

Do you believe that stealing a car is a worse moral offense than stealing one’s life?

The moral offense here is believing that a woman does not have the right to make her own decisions about her own body.

 

[AirPo]

Their own bodies? This is a Christian forum, and the Bible teaches that we do not own our bodies. Our body belong to the one who created it. He owns the copyright to thee human body.

New Living Translation
"Don't you realize that your body is the temple of the Holy Spirit, who lives in you and was given to you by God? You do not belong to yourself" [1 Corinthians 6:19]

The Bible is not the law.

 

[Julie.S]

The Bible is not the law.

It has morals in it but not legal laws that everyone must follow. The people who believe in it do but not everyone.

 

[AirPo]

Wow! Do you mean I cannot use the Bible? Do you realize that you are on sacred ground? This is a “Christian forum! Do you realize that? You are inside a Christian church!

Do you intend to chase me out of a Christian organization? If I set my foot inside your house, I will show proper respect for your authority. I will not dare to rearrange the furniture inside your house!

This is not your house, it's not a church. You have as much right do what you want with the Bible as much as I have the right to offer a few suggestions. The key though, is to know where the line is.

 

[AirPo]

Tooth extraction is a painful experience. If a dentist extracts a healthy tooth he should loose his license. When a physicians kills a healthy unborn baby, he should go to jail instead of being rewarded with the freedom to profit from murder.

It's not murder if it is legal. It is legal. Therefore it's not murder. It's really that simple.

 

[AirPo]

An unborn baby is not a tumor! You should rather compare the abortionist to a tumor!

An unborn baby isn't a baby either.

 

[AirPo]

A law that permits the killing of innocent human beings is a travesty of justice. The law should punish the guilty—not the innocent! This is so simple a young child can understand.

Since abortion is legal, there is no guilty party to be punished.

 

[Nic Samojluk]

And how is requiring a rape victim to carry the fetus to term not involuntary servitude and therefore a violation of the 13th Amendment?

What is the alternative? The alternative is murder. Do you believe that killing an innocent baby is a lesser crime than rape? Adding a worse crime to rape is not the right remedy.

Jesus said that if someone is forced to carry a load for a mile, he should offer to carry said load for two miles. Six months of inconvenience is not comparable to the total deprivation of life. Pregnancy is a temporary condition; abortion is final and irreversible.

 

[AirPo]

What is the alternative? The alternative is murder. Do you believe that killing an innocent baby is a lesser crime than rape? Adding a worse crime to rape is not the right remedy.

Jesus said that if someone is forced to carry a load for a mile, he should offer to carry said load for two miles. Six months of inconvenience is not comparable to the total deprivation of life. Pregnancy is a temporary condition; abortion is final and irreversible.

Easy for a man to say.

 

[Nic Samojluk]

It's down right horible and if a child is the result of it I don't know what a woman is to do when she has to deal with recovering from trauma because of rape and then know she is also pregnant with the child of the man who did that to her

Rape is a horrible crime. Abortion is a worse crime than rape. There is no known way to un-rape a victim of such an evil act. The woman has a choice between giving the baby for adoption or killing it. Giving the baby to an infertile couple will heal the victim of rape. Forcing her to kill her own baby will load her with guilt for the rest of her life.

 

[Nic Samojluk]

Yet those guys walk away scott free sometimes. They forcefully inpregnanted a woman against her will with no consent at all.

If society lets a rapist live, where is the justice in executing one of the victim of rape? There is a Day of Judgment coming, and what will the woman say to the Judge when he asks her: Why did you kill an innocent baby?

 

[Julie.S]

Rape is a horrible crime. Abortion is a worse crime than rape. There is no known way to un-rape a victim of such an evil act. The woman has a choice between giving the baby for adoption or killing it. Giving the baby to an infertile couple will heal the victim of rape. Forcing her to kill her own baby will load her with guilt for the rest of her life.

The mother may also never want to see or hear of that child again though it's a possibility.

 

[Julie.S]

If society lets a rapist live, where is the justice in executing one of the victim of rape? There is a Day of Judgment coming, and what will the woman say to the Judge when he asks her: Why did you kill an innocent baby?

Will the rapists also be asked why they raped someone?

 

[KingDavid403]

Abortion is not murder and there is not one word in the Bible about abortion. You cannot murder a fetus, as it is not alive anymore than one of my sperm cells or an egg in a woman's uterus. In Exodus 21:22 it states:
Exodus 21:21-23 Amplified Bible, Classic Edition (AMPC)
22 "If men contend with each other, and a pregnant woman [interfering] is hurt so that she has a miscarriage, yet no further damage follows, [the one who hurt her] shall surely be punished with a fine [paid] to the woman’s husband, as much as the judges determine."

23 "But if any damage follows, then you shall give life for life."

It should be apparent from this that the aborted fetus is not considered a living human being since the resulting punishment for the abortion is a fine; it is not classified by the bible as a capital offense or MURDER. Murder in the Old Testament was clearly to be punished with death.
Abortion was just as common in the Old Testament days and the days of Jesus and the Apostles, yet, not one word written against abortion anywhere in God's Holy Word. Abortion has been around thousands of years and is nothing knew. The Jews who follow Old Testament law know this and this is why Israel has more liberal laws on abortion than even the United States. Abortion is legal in 80% of the world and is not considered murder.
I am not pro-abortion here; however, I am sick and tired of the religious right pushing lies and twisting scripture to say that life begins at the moment of conception and that an egg with a sperm cell in it is a living person. This is absolutely ridiculous and a lie! Well over 50% of all fertilized eggs (conception) are flushed out in a woman's menstrual cycle. Is this God flushing these supposed persons down the toilet or throwing them out in the trash?
Abortion has been legal through most of the Christian churches history in the first trimester. Roe vs Wade only made abortion legal in the first trimester. I feel we should return to the original law as it was first passed in 1974. Abortion should be legal in the first trimester and those rare medical cases where it is needed. Also for cases of rape. Augustine made abortion legal in the first trimester ( first 116 days of pregnancy called 'The Quickening') for all of European Christendom in 380 AD. This after less than 100 years of it being illegal in the Roman empire. This law lasted until 1598 until they got another control freak pope in charge. That is over 1200 years.
So as you can see the abortion issue has been around long before Christ came to this earth to save us. It is not something new and America is not turning evil. Thoughts?

 

[Archivist]

What is the alternative? The alternative is murder.

No. Sorry. Legal abortion is not murder.

Do you believe that killing an innocent baby is a lesser crime than rape? Adding a worse crime to rape is not the right remedy.

So you believe in slavery and involuntary servitude? Both are prohibited by the 13th Amendment. Forcing a woman to carry a fetus to term against her will sure sounds like involuntary servitude to me. I referenced two law review articles on the subject elsewhere in this thread.

Jesus said that if someone is forced to carry a load for a mile, he should offer to carry said load for two miles Six months of inconvenience is not comparable to the total deprivation of life. Pregnancy is a temporary condition; abortion is final and irreversible.

First, the woman who was raped might not agree that havcing to carry the fetus produced by an illegal assault on her person is merely an "inconvenience."

Second, complications develop as a result of pregnancy, some more complicated than others. They range from morning sickness to high blood pressure to a possible c-section to death. Long term health problems are reported by 31% of women.

Now if the pregnant woman chooses to carry the fetus to term that is wonderful. But if someone tells her no, sorry, you can't have an abortion because we have decided that carrying your attackers spawn to term is just going to be a minor inconvinence for you, that is wrong. I view that as involuntary servitude, punishing a rape victim twice and violating her protected right against slavery.

Of course I see that you are male so you will never be in this position.

 

[AirPo]

Rape is a horrible crime. Abortion is a worse crime than rape. There is no known way to un-rape a victim of such an evil act. The woman has a choice between giving the baby for adoption or killing it. Giving the baby to an infertile couple will heal the victim of rape. Forcing her to kill her own baby will load her with guilt for the rest of her life.

How many times have you been raped?

 

[Julie.S]

Abortion is not murder and there is not one word in the Bible about abortion. You cannot murder a fetus, as it is not alive anymore than one of my sperm cells or an egg in a woman's uterus. In Exodus 21:22 it states that if a man causes a woman to have a miscarriage, he shall be fined; however, if the woman dies then he will be put to death. It should be apparent from this that the aborted fetus is not considered a living human being since the resulting punishment for the abortion is nothing more than a fine; it is not classified by the bible as a capital offense or MURDER. Murder in the Old Testament was clearly to be punished with death.
Abortion was just as common in the Old Testament days and the days of Jesus and the Apostles, yet, not one word written against abortion anywhere in God's Holy Word. Abortion has been around thousands of years and is nothing knew. The Jews who follow Old Testament law know this and this is why Israel has more liberal laws on abortion than even the United States. Abortion is legal in 80% of the world and is not considered murder.
I am not pro-abortion here; however, I am sick and tired of the religious right pushing lies and twisting scripture to say that life begins at the moment of conception and that an egg with a sperm cell in it is a living person. This is absolutely ridiculous and a lie! Abortion has been legal through most of the Christian churches history in the first trimester. Roe vs Wade only made abortion legal in the first trimester. I feel we should return to the original law as it was first passed in 1974. Abortion should be legal in the first trimester and those rare medical cases where it is needed. Also for cases of rape. Augustine made abortion legal in the first trimester for all of European Christendom in 380 AD; after less than 100 years of it being illegal in the Roman empire. This law lasted until 1598 until they got another control freak pope in charge. That is over 1200 years.
So as you can see the abortion issue has been around long before Christ came to this earth to save us. It is not something new and America is not turning evil. Thoughts?

Thank you so much for posting this!