Abomination of desolation

[Prophecy Countdown]

My reply.

There is no separation of a thousand years for the dead or living righteous in the next verse!

4 Thessalonians 4: For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and THE DEAD IN CHRIST SHALL RISE FIRST: 17Then we which are ALIVE remain shall be CAUGHT UP TOGETHER WITH THEM with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and SO SHALL WE EVER BE WITH THE LORD.

From that moment on both the dead and living lifted from the Earth they are promised to be with the Lord.

No thousand years separation in that last verse, between the dead or living, ALL raised are to be with Jesus forever!

That is why He brings His reward with Him and guess what that is? Eternal life for the righteous and a damnation for the wicked 1000 years later.

Rev 22: 12. And, behold, I come quickly; and my reward is with me, to give every man according as his work shall be.
___ ____________ ______________

J quote.

THOSE WHO HAVE FALLEN ASLEEP........................this means those who sleep in the dirt, those who died before sin was done in by the perfect sacrifice of Jesus Christ.......................those who died BEFORE the saving work of Jesus Christ.
________ _____________ __________

My reply.

No, that is mere speculation Justme, Where does the Bible make such a statement about, "those who died BEFORE the saving work of Jesus Christ?"


All the dead, Will the Christ raise, that are found worthy by His judgement. All have their records placed in the books and some, in the book of life from the foundation of the earth, meaning from the beginning.

It is Jesus that has the records and is worthy to open the Book, He is the resurrection and knows the heart.

Rev 17: 8. The beast that thou sawest was, and is not; and shall ascend out of the bottomless pit, and go into perdition: and they that dwell on the earth shall wonder, whose names were not written in the book of life from the foundation of the world, when they behold the beast that was, and is not, and yet is.

__ _______ __________________

J quote.
I want to just deal with this one short verse here for now, thank you.
Is there any error in the description of this verse?


John 5:28-29
28 Marvel not at this: for the hour is coming, in the which all that are in the graves shall hear his voice,
29 And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation
KJV
_ ______ __________________

My reply.

No there is not, because there will be A TIME when the righteous will rise and the wicked will be raised.

You yourself insist that there are two separate times for the righteous to be raised. One at the second coming then you state that Daniel will be raised 1000 years later.

So that argument can be placed at your feet also, because you have two different times for the resurrection of the living and dead in Christ. You also think that the resurrection which is recorded as being done when we see in Rev 19: 6, 7, 8, and you ignore 9, by saying we don’t have to read it.

You also place the millennium before the second coming yet we are still here and of course so is the Earth.

No you are confused about the timing!

That is obvious from what the Bible states and what you state.

You said "we don't have to read about weddings," then why did Jesus ask John to record it for HIM in Rev 19: 1, 6, 7, 8, 9 ?

If you choose to ignore what the LORD stated then that shows why you have the timing all wrong.


You state that the 1000 years has been and gone, yet you do not know when it starts or finishes?

The Bible tells us when clearly, but if you choose to ignore what Jesus said about

You consider His own wedding supper as being of no importance?

I have given you Bible verse by verse and so has Vinsight4u, yet you state what parts of the Lord’s statements are important and those that you consider not important?

You mistakenly place the 1000 years before the second coming of Christ. So it is by your reckoning the world would be destroyed before His second coming not mine!

You said this. Quote. "So all this is to biblically prove that the 1000 year reign with Christ takkes place in Heaven PRIOR to the parousia".

The Millennium is after the second coming and after the wedding supper in Rev 19: 1,2,3, 6, 7, 8, 9..


You complain about me using the Bible?

Ephesians 3: 6.That the Gentiles should be fellowheirs, and of the same body, and partakers of his promise in Christ by the gospel.


It is because you place the second coming after the millennium that you have Daniel being a part of the following.

The wicked nations raised after the millennium are deceived by Satan, and all die by fire, the second death .

8And shall go out to deceive the nations which are in the four quarters of the earth, Gog and Magog, to gather them together to battle: the number of whom is as the sand of the sea.

9And they went up on the breadth of the earth, and compassed the camp of the saints about, and the beloved city: and fire came down from God out of heaven, and devoured them.

I think Daniel will be raised at the first resurrection before the millennium that occurs after the wedding supper, if you would stop ignoring the wedding supper time table and take the time to give the Bible’s version instead of your own.

Maranatha.

Prophecy Countdown.

 

[Prophecy Countdown]

Hi there Vinsight4u.

I have read ALL your studies and have enjoyed the light which you have been so willing to share with others like myself.

We are out there watching and drinking the clear waters of prophecy that you carry for His people straight from the Bible.

It is an inspiration for me and an uplift to my faith and strengthens me, when I hear the Bible through your clear prophetic understanding, you are blessed with the burden of His work.

It is hard at time my dear Brother, but the rewards for you , I am sure will be great in heaven.

Thank you Vinsight4u, for all your dedication to the truth from the Bible that I know you hold so dear.

We wait for His soon return, Amen.

Your Brother in His name.

Prophecy countdown.

 

[Prophecy Countdown]

Greetings 66Books, Colbey and Vinsight4u.
How long have we got?
Daniel Chapter 7
1In the first year of Belshazzar king of Babylon Daniel had a dream and visions of his head upon his bed: then he wrote the dream, and told the sum of the matters.
2Daniel spake and said, I saw in my vision by night, and, behold, the four winds of the heaven strove upon the great sea.
Now I’m going back to remind you of the fact that in Daniel chapter 1: 44.
Daniel 1:44“And in the DAYS OF THESE KINGS THE GOD OF HEAVEN WILL SET UP HIS KINGDOM which shall never be destroyed; and the kingdom shall not be left to other people; it shall break in pieces and consume all these kingdoms, and it shall stand forever.
The angel takes Daniel to the “time of the end,” which is at the feet of the statue. The Angel doesn’t waste much time getting there.

Now remembering that we are taken to the feet of the metal time statue, and this is at the time that God will set up his kingdom, it is only right that the descriptions of the beasts should fit the powers to be at “the time of the end,” then proceed to “the end of time which are two different periods, as we shall see.

Daniel 7: 3. And four great beasts came up from the sea, diverse one from another. 4The first was like a lion, and had eagle’s wings: I beheld till the wings thereof were plucked, and it was lifted up from the earth, and made stand upon the feet as a man, and a man’s heart was given to it.

The powers at “the time of the end,” are described with symbols that would make sense to us living at this time. Previous generations would not understand these symbols.

Daniel 12:3. But you, Daniel, keep this prophecy a secret; seal up the book until the time of the end. Many will rush here and there, and knowledge will increase.”

In plain English seal up the Book till the time of the end, Lots of people will go backwards and forwards over the words trying to understand it and they will increase their knowledge of it doing so.
I will give a study on this a little later.

Daniel 7: 3. And four great beasts came up from the sea, diverse one from another.
4. The first was like a lion, and had eagle’s wings: I beheld till the wings thereof were plucked, and it was lifted up from the earth, and made stand upon the feet as a man, and a man’s heart was given to it.

When America was attacked on the 11th September 2001, the British prime minister Tony Blaire the very next day, stood by the American President and said. something like this, “We are with you 100%.”
Could this be “the time of sorrows,” mentioned by Jesus in Math 24, Mark 13 and Luke 21?

The Symbol of the U S A is the Eagle, the Symbol of Great Britain is the Lion. The Lion that had eagles wings.
His wings are plucked and the lion is given the heart of a man and is made to stand like a man.

What on earth happens to the greatest single power ever known to man the U S A?

Now what happens to a power vacuum? Here comes the bear to try and fill it.
What country has the bear as its symbol? Russia.

Daniel 7: 5. And behold another beast, a second, like to a bear, and it raised up itself on one side, and it had three ribs in the mouth of it between the teeth of it: and they said thus unto it, Arise, devour much flesh.

I’m not sure about this one. Could it be China or Asia?
They do have the “tiger economy,”
It has “four wings of a fowl,”

It has four heads, could this be four adjoining nations? They are given authority!
6. After this I beheld, and lo another, like a leopard, which had upon the back of it four wings of a fowl; the beast had also four heads; and dominion was given to it.



7. After this I saw in the night visions, and behold a fourth beast, dreadful and terrible, and strong exceedingly; and it had great iron teeth: it devoured and brake in pieces, and stamped the residue with the feet of it: and it was diverse from all the beasts that were before it; and it had ten horns.

This fourth beast is most terrible is of all the strengths and attributes of the lion with eagles wings the bear and leopard.
It has ten horns, meaning ten leaders as we shall see.

8. I considered the horns, and, behold, there came up among them another little horn, before whom there were three of the first horns plucked up by the roots: and, behold, in this horn were eyes like the eyes of man, and a mouth speaking great things. Now ten horns three plucked up to be replaced by one leaves eight. This one horn starts saying things, as a result the Ancient of Days, the Father reacts. A court scene ensues immediately.

9. I beheld till the thrones were cast down, and the Ancient of days did sit, whose garment was white as snow, and the hair of his head like the pure wool: his throne was like the fiery flame, and his wheels as burning fire. 10. A fiery stream issued and came forth from before him: thousand thousands ministered unto him, and ten thousand times ten thousand stood before him: the judgement was set, and the BOOKS WERE OPENED.

Everything is done by the books.


Daniel 7: 11.I beheld then because of the voice of the great words which the horn spake: I beheld even till the BEAST was SLAIN, and his BODY destroyed, and GIVEN TO THE BURNING FLAME.

Daniel 7 :12.As concerning the rest of the beasts, they had their dominion taken away: yet their lives were prolonged for a season and time.

The lion, bear, leopard which are many nations are allowed to live a “season equals three months, a time, equals one year, equals one year three months.

Dan 7: 13. I saw in the night visions, and, behold, one like the Son of man came with the clouds of heaven, and came to the Ancient of days, and they brought HIM near before HIM.

14. And there was given HIM DOMINION, and GLORY, and a KINGDOM, that all people, nations, and languages, should serve him: his dominion is an everlasting dominion, which shall not pass away, and his kingdom that which shall not be destroyed.





Satan is the horn
Daniel 7: 20.And of the ten horns that were in his head, and of the other which came up, and before whom three fell; even of that horn that had eyes, and a mouth that spake very great things, whose look was more stout than his fellows.

21. I beheld, and the same HORN MADE WAR WITH THE SAINTS, and prevailed against them;


Daniel 7: 22. Until the Ancient of days came, and judgement was given to the saints of the most High; and the time came that the saints possessed the kingdom.


23. Thus he said, The fourth beast shall be the fourth kingdom upon earth, which shall be diverse from all kingdoms, and shall DEVOUR THE WHOLE EARTH, and shall tread it down, and BREAK IT IN PIECES.

24And the ten horns out of this kingdom are ten kings that shall arise: and another shall rise after them; and he shall be diverse from the first, and he shall subdue three kings.

25And he shall speak great words against the most High, and shall wear out the saints of the most High, and think to change times and laws: and they shall be given into his hand until a time and times and the dividing of time.
In context this is at the time of the end. If we are going to have false Messiah, false prophets, a false timetable, how about a false Armageddon battle.


28. Hitherto is the end of the matter. As for me Daniel, my cogitations much troubled me, and my countenance changed in me: but I kept the matter in my heart.



The symbols used in Daniel 8. are different but as you will see it is the same story as in Daniel 7.
Only this time we are given geographical locations pointing to the powers positions and moods at the time of the end. This is done so that we can recognise them through the book of Daniel at the time of the end.

This vision is a cause and effect situation.
First, a religious Moslem Cause, It slowly appears, in the form of terrorism, then will be reacted against, then more and more fanatical causes, with quickening rapidity! The result is counter reactions one after another these are the Birth pangs at the " time of the end.”


Remember what Jesus said about the nations and about the time of sorrows?
We are living through the opening pages of DANIEL’S visions.

Fanatics never admit to being fanatical!
They think they are doing the will of God!

Daniel chapter 8.
Some two years had passed by since Daniel’s last dream. The translation from Greek in verse 1 Does not mean after in time, that is a poor rendering of it. It means after in kind.
The second vision is the same, in kind, or likeness as the first.


Daniel Chapter 8:1. In the third year of the reign of king Belshazzar a vision appeared unto me, even unto me Daniel, AFTER THAT WHICH APPEARED UNTO ME AT THE FIRST.

At what time? “The time of the end”
What powers? Those powers associated with Israel either positively or negatively.
Where are these powers located and are they named?

Continued on post 545.

 

[Justme]

Hi PC,
You quoted:
Rev 20;3 states, after the resurrection of life, "and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years."

Rev 20: 5But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished.

Then you stated:
Two resurrections.

EUREEKA, praise the Lord and pass the ammunition, we have hit a major milestone.

Yes, PC the verses you quoted speak of two resurrections. Let's name them just for clarity...........how about if we call the first resurrection the 'first ' resurrection and that other one the 'rest of the dead', or if you prefer the 'other' resurrection.

You wrote:
Now how far apart are the dead raised before the living? Moments!
**********************

I suppose you could explain to us how this resurrection of the 'living' works. Like before you can be resurrected you have to die first, that is a real prerequisite to being resurrected.

You wrote:
The righteous dead are raised and we that are alive are caught UP WITH THEM.
**********************

Really!!!!!Can you explain what you mean by 'we that are alive.' Who do you consider the 'we' to be?

Now these 'living' that are caught up, would you say that is a rapture type thing? Some of those dead that we read about are going to heaven, how do you suppose these 'living' people are going to get in there? Or does God kill off these righteous people in-flight somehow?

You wrotein answer to this...1 Thess 4:15 ( WE TELL YOU.......................this would be Paul and his friends telling the 'you' which would be the Thessalonians that.............
WE WHO ARE STILL ALIVE..................Who might this mean PC?)
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

All those in faith, that are alive at the second coming will be "caught up together with them."

ALL the righteous dead are raised from their graves and ALL those living on the Earth at the second coming time!
***********************

Yes, PC here the bible is talking about the righteous dead and reference is made that those alive at the parousia will not PRECEDE those righteous dead.

Note to readers: I'm just going to forget about the wicked here, PC can't seem to grasp that part yet. 1 Thess 4;15 happens to be talking to potential Christians anyway.

Then you write:
we which are alive remain shall be caught up TOGETHER WITH THEM in the clouds, to meet the Lord."

because they are to be raised at the resurrection of life.
*********************

You were on the verge of catching on and you lost it..........

THOSE THAT ARE ALIVE AND REMAIN AT THE COMING WILL NOT PRECEDE...WILL NOT PRECEDE...WILL NOT PRECEDE those who sleep.

PC, I'm going to skip the rest of that post because as soon as you see the light it will all be self explanatory.

Next post you write:
There is no separation of a thousand years for the dead or living righteous in the next verse!
**************
You were talking about 1` Thess 4;13-18

No,of course there isn't,now what does that tell you?

You wrote:
No, that is mere speculation Justme, Where does the Bible make such a statement about, "those who died BEFORE the saving work of Jesus Christ?"

Well, once upon a time there was aman named ADam and he sucked in and ate of the forbidden fruit. Poof, the eternal life that God had promised to mankind was snarled. Jesus Christ came along and offered the perfect sacrifice to atone for Adam's sin and POOF again eternal life is restored to mankind.

Because eternal life was not attainale until Jesus died on the cross to cover it off, people who died could not recieve the gift of eternal life and simply slept in the dirt awaiting the resurrection to righteousness or to damnation, depending on if they would be judged with the sheep or the goats.

So to your question where does the bible speak of this ...pretty much from Genesis to Revelation.

You wrote:
You yourself insist that there are two separate times for the righteous to be raised. One at the second coming then you state that Daniel will be raised 1000 years later.
********************

No, that is what you say. I say that the first resurrection ,Rev 20:4 and 6 is prior to the parousia and Daniel is raised at the time of the great tribulation which is followed immediately by a celestial display which includes the coming of the son of man. That raising of the dead will PRECEDE those who are alive and remain until the parousia.

So I most definately DO NOT say that Daniel will be raised 1000 years after the parousia because that would be unbiblical.

You wrote:
So that argument can be placed at your feet also, because you have two different times for the resurrection of the living and dead in Christ.
**************************

If I ever talked about resurrected the living it would be a massive typo because there can not be a resurrection of the 'living.'
Webster..resurrect= restore to life....

You wrote:
You also place the millennium before the second coming yet we are still here and of course so is the Earth.
*********************

Yes, so what's the problem?

You wrote:
The Millennium is after the second coming and after the wedding supper in Rev 19: 1,2,3, 6, 7, 8, 9..

PC, try this...Assume the parousia is Dec 25, 2003. Now read Rev.19:1-9. Does it fit okay?
Now assume the parousia is a million years from now...does it fit? Now assume the parousia was 1000 years in the past...does it fit? All Rev 19 is telling you is what goes on and that is what goes on no matter when this is. It is a VISION!!!!!

So now that we have dodged around the issue let's go right back to:
15According to the Lord's own word, we tell you that we who are still alive, who are left till the coming of the Lord, will certainly not precede those who have fallen asleep.

PC does this happen somewhere really close to the parousia which is immedieatly AFTER the great tribulation?

I'll help you ..YES it does. Paul, in this verse IS talking about the righteous. AND these RIGHTEOUS are being raised BEFORE those alive at the coming. BUt because they are raised to live it follows that they were dead or as the verse says FALLEN ASLEEP.

That would make them part of the REST of the DEAD from Rev 20:5.

We know it isn't only the wicked that is raised after that because just as John sees the coming on the clouds he is told to record for all to read:
13Then I heard a voice from heaven say, "Write: Blessed are the dead who die in the Lord from now on."

Those who will be blessed are those in the LOrd who die after the parousia.

I think you're getting it PC.

Justme

 

[Prophecy Countdown]

Daniel chapter 8.

Daniel sees himself standing at Shushan in the Palace.

SHUSHAN was in the extreme South Western part of PERSIA now called IRAN. Now understanding that this vision is at “THE TIME OF THE END” we now have the location of this prophecy in Iran and therefore Iran must be the country concerned.

In the next verse we are told by Daniel, “I was by the river ULAI, the modern name for this river is KARUN. The KARUN river is of course in IRAN.

Daniel 8:2 And I saw in a vision; and it came to pass, when I saw, that I was at Shushan in the palace, which is in the province of Elam; and I saw in a vision, and I was by the river of ULAI.


Daniel looked up and saw the RAM, before the river ULAI or Karun.
As you know The Medes and Persians were rolled up into one Empire, that put an end to King Belshazzar and his Babylonian empire.

Now Shushan under Cyrus was the first capital of the Medo- Persian empire.
The Persian side that is, which is modern Iran.
The Medes were conquered in 558 BC by Cyrus and the two countries blended into one.

The modern names of these countries is Iran and Iraq. We should note that Afghanistan was part of Iraq at that time.
ELAM where the Elamites lived (highlands) This province lay South of Assyria and East of Persia proper.
The ULAI river (modern name Karun) is in IRAN it originates in the highlands and becomes part of the Tigress & Euphrates river system known as Perath in Hebrew.

Now I need your attention! there is a message in this.
Daniel goes into great detail as to where he is and where the ram and goat meet in combat. So, we have a geographical. location
He is also told when this vision is to take place. “At the time of the end.”

The Little horn IRAQ comes up first then the larger IRAN last. IRAQ has come up causing trouble, however IRAN may help IRAQ as the vision implies with the two standing together as the RAM by the river Karun.
Could the ram be Islam?
The smaller horn, Iraq came up first against Israel with missiles.
Iran the larger horn on the ram is coming up second, both pushing.



Daniel 8: 3.Then I lifted up mine eyes, and saw, and, behold, there stood before the river a ram which had two horns: and the TWO HORNS WERE HIGH; but ONE WAS HIGHER than the other, and THE HIGHER CAME UP LAST.
Iraq comes up first then Iran the higher horn comes up last.

America has dealt with Afghanistan and Iraq, the small horn.

In verse 4. Daniel says the ram is pushing. Where is the ram power pushing to?
Westward, Northward, and Southward.
He is not pushing East!
The ram “BECOMES GREAT.” No other beast or power can do a thing about the power of the ram and what he grasps he keeps. No one can stop him doing what he likes.
The Islam seems to do what it likes, for the moment at least.

Now you know and I know that the Moslem religion is a push religion. To spread they need to push in the directions mentioned and they are pushing their luck.
I have never seen so many Mosques in so many places.

They have started to push and when the Americans and British find out, if they haven’t already, that it is Iran, that is in the thick of this terror business then, look out Iran the bigger horn on the ram!

When we start to look at Israel, whack the Syrians in Damascus look out because the West is going to say enough of all this we are going to take over the running of Jerusalem and trample on the city.

The President of America, the most powerful nation the earth has ever known, does not state that the axis of evil involves IRAN, IRAQ and North Korea for nothing, the President knows something.

Daniel 8:4. I saw the ram pushing westward, and northward, and southward; so that no beasts might stand before him, neither was there any that could deliver out of his hand; but he did according to his will, and became GREAT.

Cause and effect
Cause, The RAM is pushing North, South and West. Knocking off and subduing other nations around him. He did as he liked a local bully and became GREAT!!

Effect! The ram (Islam) pushes too far. He does something to push the Goat, America and UK to counter his belligerence.
America and Britain have dealt with Iraq the smaller horn who came up first.
What makes the American and British alliance, the lion with eagles wings Dan 7, depicted as the Goat, so angry in Daniel 8?

The Goat does not touch the FACE OF THE WHOLE EARTH travelling fast from the west.
That means ships and aircraft, missiles!
He is the one alliance, He has one HORN, He is so angry, no hesitation this time, he goes straight into the attack.

Daniel 8: 5. And as I was considering, behold, an he GOAT came from the WEST on the face of the WHOLE EARTH, and touched not the ground: and the goat had a notable horn between his eyes.

 

[Prophecy Countdown]

This is a cause and effect.
He doesn’t touch the ground!
Aircraft and ships and plenty of them, covering the “WHOLE EARTH.”
Only a few years ago (until 1985) we could not have realised this vision because we had two super powers. Now we only have ONE. The U S of A and their ally Britain. With eagles wings the lion?
There is only one horn on that Goat which denotes power.

Now the Ram is still pushing. Which makes the goat from the West very angry!
The powerful goat goes straight into the ram’s backyard, near the river Ulai.
What ever Iran, the larger horn does to the British American alliance will be seen by all very soon, then this prophecy will become history.

But it is going to make America and Britain so very, very angry the goat is going to hammer the Iranians just as we have seen with the Iraqis. “Fury” or Furious is the word the Bible uses.


Daniel 8: 6. And he came to the ram that had two horns, which I had seen standing before the river, and ran unto him in the fury of his power.

As the Goat, the USA and Britain get closer to Iran the larger horn on the Ram, he is moved with choler, which is an old English word meaning anger, the goat moves with such rage against the Ram that he annihilates him.
Puts him down permanently. No power on earth will be able to stop the U S A and British alliance which most tried to do before Iraq was attacked “Either you are with us or against us.” Said President Bush.

Daniel 8: 7. And I saw him come close unto the ram, and he was moved with choler against him, and smote the ram, and brake his two horns: and there was no power in the ram to stand before him, but he cast him down to the ground, and stamped upon him: and there was none that could deliver the ram out of his hand

The two horns are broken Iraq and Iran are fixed to the ground.
Now the Ram “became great.” But the Goat became VERY GREAT, There’s only one world power that can come from the West and do this to the RAM Iraq and Iran. That power is America with a little help from Britain and we have seen some of Daniel’s prophecies being played out NOW!

Will America and Britain survive this?

Daniel 8: 8.Therefore the he goat waxed very great: and when he was strong, the great horn was broken; and for it came up four notable ones toward the four winds of heaven.

Something divides the one very great horn alliance into four notable ones. A division. A vacuum is created for another world leader. The bear will fill the vacuum for a short while.

Now you know that America buys favours with millions of dollars Afghanistan has cost the U S lots of moolah. How does the greatest nation on earth that becomes “VERY GREAT” suddenly lose its power? Turn off the oil?
A world recession?

Rev 13: 17. And that no man might buy or sell, save he that had the mark, or the name of the beast, or the number of his name.

Will America and Britain survive? This war with the goat will be won by America and Britain, no doubt about it the will Ram gets done in.
If however this causes an economic collapse it will be a pyrrhic victory!
A vacuum is created and nature does not like a vacuum, there needs to be a replacement to fill the gap. Out of one of these horns comes up a Little horn. He’s not GREAT (ram) He’s not VERY GREAT (USA), he’s EXCEEDINGLY GREAT!
We have the ram with two horns broken the Goat with his horn broken and now the little horn Satan will be broken.
How long do we Have?
Not long at all so it seems.
Now there is a message in this!

Daniel 8: 9. And out of one of them came forth a little horn, which waxed exceeding great, toward the south, and toward the east, and toward the pleasant land.
Which way is he pushing? He is pushing SOUTH and EAST and toward the “PLEASANT LAND.” Israel.

Why does this fellow want to get into Israel? He wants to sit where he ought not!

Where is it that he wants to sit?
Isaiah 14: 12. How art thou fallen from heaven, O LUCIFER, SON OF THE MORNING! how art thou cut down to the GROUND, which didst WEAKEN THE NATIONS!

It is this angel of the morning, meaning first created that weakens us on earth.

Isaiah 14: 13.For thou hast said in thine heart, I will ascend into heaven, I will exalt my throne above the stars of God: I will sit also upon the MOUNT OF THE CONGREGATION, in the SIDES OF THE NORTH:

The MOUNT IN THE SIDES OF THE NORTH of the CONGREGATION.
That is The TEMPLE MOUNT of the CONGREGATION.
In Jerusalem.

Maranatha.
Prophecy countdown.

 

[Prophecy Countdown]

I forget that the beast with the mortal wound appears as one of the leaders on the last beast as one of it’s heads that was wounded.
Revelation 13:13 I looked and saw a beast coming up from the sea. This one had ten horns and seven heads, and a crown was on each of its ten horns. On each of its heads were names that were an insult to God. 2 The beast that I saw had the body of a leopard, the feet of a bear, and the mouth of a lion. The dragon handed over its own power and throne and great authority to this beast. 3 One of its heads seemed to have been fatally wounded, but now it was well. Everyone on earth marveled at this beast,

 

[Justme]

Hi PC,

Fanatics never admit to being fanatical!
They think they are doing the will of God!

This part of that post is correct.

Justme

 

[Hitch]

WHEN I die I hope Ronan is there ahead and the second thing I hear is him singing

GOD BLESS AMERICA

 

[Prophecy Countdown]

yes, when applied to some religeous followers who follow the teachings of their leaders whether Moslem or christian without the capital C as I am witnessing right here!

 

[rebaa]

maybe ya should have stayed with EG WHite

 

[Prophecy Countdown]

Hi PC,
You quoted:
Rev 20;3 states, after the resurrection of life, "and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years."

Rev 20: 5But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished.

Then you stated:
Two resurrections.

EUREEKA, praise the Lord and pass the ammunition, we have hit a major milestone.

Yes, PC the verses you quoted speak of two resurrections. Let's name them just for clarity...........how about if we call the first resurrection the 'first ' resurrection and that other one the 'rest of the dead', or if you prefer the 'other' resurrection.

You wrote:
Now how far apart are the dead raised before the living? Moments!
**********************

I suppose you could explain to us how this resurrection of the 'living' works. Like before you can be resurrected you have to die first, that is a real prerequisite to being resurrected.

You wrote:
The righteous dead are raised and we that are alive are caught UP WITH THEM.
**********************

Really!!!!!Can you explain what you mean by 'we that are alive.' Who do you consider the 'we' to be?

Now these 'living' that are caught up, would you say that is a rapture type thing? Some of those dead that we read about are going to heaven, how do you suppose these 'living' people are going to get in there? Or does God kill off these righteous people in-flight somehow?

You wrotein answer to this...1 Thess 4:15 ( WE TELL YOU.......................this would be Paul and his friends telling the 'you' which would be the Thessalonians that.............
WE WHO ARE STILL ALIVE..................Who might this mean PC?)
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

All those in faith, that are alive at the second coming will be "caught up together with them."

ALL the righteous dead are raised from their graves and ALL those living on the Earth at the second coming time!
***********************

Yes, PC here the bible is talking about the righteous dead and reference is made that those alive at the parousia will not PRECEDE those righteous dead.

Note to readers: I'm just going to forget about the wicked here, PC can't seem to grasp that part yet. 1 Thess 4;15 happens to be talking to potential Christians anyway.

Then you write:
we which are alive remain shall be caught up TOGETHER WITH THEM in the clouds, to meet the Lord."

because they are to be raised at the resurrection of life.
*********************

You were on the verge of catching on and you lost it..........

THOSE THAT ARE ALIVE AND REMAIN AT THE COMING WILL NOT PRECEDE...WILL NOT PRECEDE...WILL NOT PRECEDE those who sleep.

PC, I'm going to skip the rest of that post because as soon as you see the light it will all be self explanatory.

Next post you write:
There is no separation of a thousand years for the dead or living righteous in the next verse!
**************
You were talking about 1` Thess 4;13-18

No,of course there isn't,now what does that tell you?

You wrote:
No, that is mere speculation Justme, Where does the Bible make such a statement about, "those who died BEFORE the saving work of Jesus Christ?"

Well, once upon a time there was aman named ADam and he sucked in and ate of the forbidden fruit. Poof, the eternal life that God had promised to mankind was snarled. Jesus Christ came along and offered the perfect sacrifice to atone for Adam's sin and POOF again eternal life is restored to mankind.

Because eternal life was not attainale until Jesus died on the cross to cover it off, people who died could not recieve the gift of eternal life and simply slept in the dirt awaiting the resurrection to righteousness or to damnation, depending on if they would be judged with the sheep or the goats.

So to your question where does the bible speak of this ...pretty much from Genesis to Revelation.

You wrote:
You yourself insist that there are two separate times for the righteous to be raised. One at the second coming then you state that Daniel will be raised 1000 years later.
********************

No, that is what you say. I say that the first resurrection ,Rev 20:4 and 6 is prior to the parousia and Daniel is raised at the time of the great tribulation which is followed immediately by a celestial display which includes the coming of the son of man. That raising of the dead will PRECEDE those who are alive and remain until the parousia.

So I most definately DO NOT say that Daniel will be raised 1000 years after the parousia because that would be unbiblical.

You wrote:
So that argument can be placed at your feet also, because you have two different times for the resurrection of the living and dead in Christ.
**************************

If I ever talked about resurrected the living it would be a massive typo because there can not be a resurrection of the 'living.'
Webster..resurrect= restore to life....

You wrote:
You also place the millennium before the second coming yet we are still here and of course so is the Earth.
*********************

Yes, so what's the problem?

You wrote:
The Millennium is after the second coming and after the wedding supper in Rev 19: 1,2,3, 6, 7, 8, 9..

PC, try this...Assume the parousia is Dec 25, 2003. Now read Rev.19:1-9. Does it fit okay?
Now assume the parousia is a million years from now...does it fit? Now assume the parousia was 1000 years in the past...does it fit? All Rev 19 is telling you is what goes on and that is what goes on no matter when this is. It is a VISION!!!!!

So now that we have dodged around the issue let's go right back to:
15According to the Lord's own word, we tell you that we who are still alive, who are left till the coming of the Lord, will certainly not precede those who have fallen asleep.

PC does this happen somewhere really close to the parousia which is immedieatly AFTER the great tribulation?

I'll help you ..YES it does. Paul, in this verse IS talking about the righteous. AND these RIGHTEOUS are being raised BEFORE those alive at the coming. BUt because they are raised to live it follows that they were dead or as the verse says FALLEN ASLEEP.

That would make them part of the REST of the DEAD from Rev 20:5.

We know it isn't only the wicked that is raised after that because just as John sees the coming on the clouds he is told to record for all to read:
13Then I heard a voice from heaven say, "Write: Blessed are the dead who die in the Lord from now on."

Those who will be blessed are those in the LOrd who die after the parousia.

I think you're getting it PC.

Justme

Hi J.
Hi PC,
You quoted:
Rev 20;3 states, after the resurrection of life, "and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years."
Rev 20: 5But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished.Then you stated:
Two resurrections.
EUREEKA, praise the Lord and pass the ammunition, we have hit a major milestone.
___ _____ _____
My reply.
“milestone.
Not really I have stated this all along. The resurrection of life at the second coming for the dead and living in Christ which is before the millennium and then the resurrection of damnation after the millennium, maybe you are starting to read clearer, I’m glade you agree with what the Bible says at last.
__ ________ _______
J quote.
Yes, PC the verses you quoted speak of two resurrections. Let's name them just for clarity...........how about if we call the first resurrection the 'first ' resurrection and that other one the 'rest of the dead', or if you prefer the 'other' resurrection.
____ ___________ __________
My reply no let’s not, I like to call them by their proper names .
The “resurrection of life.”
The “resurrection of damnation.”
___ __________ __________
J quote.
You wrote:
Now how far apart are the dead raised before the living? Moments!
I suppose you could explain to us how this resurrection of the 'living' works. Like before you can be resurrected you have to die first, that is a real prerequisite to being resurrected.
You said
“The righteous dead are raised and we that are alive are CAUGHT UP WITH THEM.”
___ _______ _____________
My reply.
I quoted Paul with this Bible verse for my back up. So it was Paul that said it not me really to be honest.
1 Thessalonians 4:16. For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and THE DEAD IN CHRIST SHALL RISE FIRST: 17THEN WE WHICH ARE ALIVE remain SHALL BE CAUGHT UP TOGETHER WITH THEM in the clouds, to meet them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord. 18Wherefore comfort one another with these words.

That’s clear the “resurrection of life” for the living and dead in Christ. “CAUGHT UP TOGETHER.” Is obviously going to happen at the second coming!
___ ___________ _________
J quote.
Really!!!!!Can you explain what you mean by 'we that are alive.' Who do you consider the 'we' to be?
_______ ____________ _____________
My reply.
I didn’t say it, I copied Paul, shall we ask him?
1 Thessalonians 4:16. For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and THE DEAD IN CHRIST SHALL RISE FIRST: 17THEN WE WHICH ARE ALIVE remain SHALL BE CAUGHT UP TOGETHER WITH THEM in the clouds, to meet them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord. 18Wherefore comfort one another with these words.
Well, that happens for those alive at the second coming! “CAUGHT UP TOGETHER WITH THEM in the clouds.”
___________________ ________ ______
J quote.
Now these 'living' that are caught up, would you say that is a rapture type thing? Some of those dead that we read about are going to heaven, how do you suppose these 'living' people are going to get in there? Or does God kill off these righteous people in-flight somehow?
You wrotein answer to this...1 Thess 4:15 ( WE TELL YOU this would be Paul and his friends telling the 'you' which would be the Thessalonians that.............
WE WHO ARE STILL ALIVE..................Who might this mean PC?)
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
My reply.
Let me see if I can help you read it again from Paul.
All those in faith, that are alive at the second coming will be "caught up together with them." The dead that are raised a moment before the living at the second coming.
1 Thessalonians 4: 16. For the LORD HIMSELF SHALL DESCEND FROM HEAVEN with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and THE DEAD IN CHRIST shall RISE FIRST:

The living at the second coming will be caught up with them that are raised from death.
17THEN WE WHICH ARE ALIVE remain SHALL BE CAUGHT UP TOGETHR WITH THEM in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.
ALL the righteous dead are raised from their graves and ALL those living on the Earth at the second coming time!
___ ____ _________________
J quote.
Yes, PC here the bible is talking about the righteous dead and reference is made that those alive at the parousia will not PRECEDE those righteous dead.
__ ______ _____
My reply.
Yes we are told that the dead and living at the second coming are to be raised in the clouds.
17.Then WE WHICH ARE ALIVE remain SHALL BE CAUGHT UP TOGETHR WITH THEM in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.
___ _____ ___________ ________
J quote.
Note to readers: I'm just going to forget about the wicked here, PC can't seem to grasp that part yet.
-----------------_______ ___________ ______________
My reply.
Who is talking about the wicked dead, we are talking about the Righteous dead and living at the time of the second coming, who are raised at the resurrection of life.
_______________ __ __________
J quote.
1 Thess 4;15 happens to be talking to potential Christians anyway.
Then you write:
we which are alive remain shall be caught up TOGETHER WITH THEM in the clouds, to meet the Lord. because they are to be raised at the resurrection of life.
___ _____ ________________________
My reply.
That is dead right.
_ _____ ________ ______________
J quote.
You were on the verge of catching on and you lost it........
THOSE THAT ARE ALIVE AND REMAIN AT THE COMING WILL NOT PRECEDE...WILL NOT PRECEDE...WILL NOT PRECEDE those who sleep.
_______________ _________ ____
My reply. Is the same as the Bible’s.
1Thesalonians 4: 16 For the LORD HIMSELF SHALL DESCEND FROM HEAVEN with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and THE DEAD IN CHRIST SHALL RISE FIRST: 17THEN WE WHICH ARE ALIVE remain shall be CAUGHT UP WITH THEM with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.
___________ _______ __________

 

[Prophecy Countdown]

J quote.
PC, I'm going to skip the rest of that post because as soon as you see the light it will all be self explanatory.
_____ ___________ _______
My reply.
You need to look in a mirror when you say that!
___________ _________ ______________
J quote.
Next post you write:
There is no separation of a thousand years for the dead or living righteous in the next verse!
You were talking about 1` Thess 4;13-18
No,of course there isn't,now what does that tell you?
_________ ______ _________
My reply.
It tells me that the righteous living are raised at the second coming along with the righteous dead as I have always said, before the millennium. Now this is why you state that I cant forget the wicked dead.
It is because you place the 1000 years before the second coming and have the lot good and evil raised after the 1000 years which is NOT what the Bibles says It says after the resurrection of life which we see the results of in Rev 19: 1, 6, 7, 8, & 9 which you think unimportant for people to bother reading.
____________________ __________ _______
J quotes what I said about her.

You yourself insist that there are two separate times for the righteous to be raised. One at the second coming then you state that Daniel will be raised 1000 years later.
________ ________________________
My reply.
Look at the proof about what Justme said so she can’t deny it, it is right here.
Justme’s quotes.
"To anyone who believes the parousia is 'soon' then the 1000 year reign is either going on now or it is over."

"So all this is to biblically prove that the 1000 year reign with Christ takkes place in Heaven PRIOR to the parousia.
Do you agree with that?"


"The 1000 year reign with Christ is 100% for sure not on earth, period. The 1000 year reign is BEFORE the parousia, BEFORE jesus returns, Jesus is still at the right hand of God or still in Heaven when this 1000 year reign takes place. If they are going to reign WITH Christ it has to occur where Christ is.. at that time He is IN heaven."
That as what you said then you deny saying it.

This is what I said from post 541 There is no separation of a thousand years for the DEAD or LIVING RIGHTEOUS in the next verse!

4 Thessalonians 4: For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and THE DEAD IN CHRIST SHALL RISE FIRST: 17Then we which are ALIVE remain shall be CAUGHT UP TOGETHER WITH THEM with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and SO SHALL WE EVER BE WITH THE LORD.

From that moment on, both the dead and living lifted from the Earth, they are promised to be with the Lord.

No thousand years separation in that last verse, between the dead or living, ALL raised are to be with Jesus forever!

That is why He brings His reward with Him and guess what that is? Eternal life for the righteous and a damnation for the wicked 1000 years later.

Rev 22: 12. And, behold, I come quickly; and my reward is with me, to give every man according as his work shall be.
______ ___________ ______________
J quote.
I say that the first resurrection ,Rev 20:4 and 6 is prior to the parousia and Daniel is raised at the time of the great tribulation which is followed immediately by a celestial display which includes the coming of the son of man.
_______ ________ _______
My reply.
Yes I agree, that is what I have been saying all the time.
So what is your problem?
Rev 20:4. And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.

I also said that the wicked dead, stay dead for 1000 years and quoted this verse in earlier posts.
Rev 20: 5. But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished.
I said that this resurrection of life happens at the second coming which occurs before the millennium.
And quoted this.
Rev 20: This is the first resurrection. 6Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years.

I then said that the righteous dead and living are raised all at the same time.
And quoted this.
1 Thessalonians 4: 16For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first: 17Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord. 18Wherefore comfort one another with these words.
I said there is no 1000 years between the righteous dead or living being raised and “caught up together.”
So don’t mislead people by not quoting me properly at least show them the quotes to prove your point, but you can’t because I never said it.
I said that the wicked are raised after the 1000 years.
Rev 20: 7. And when the thousand years are expired, Satan shall be loosed out of his prison, 8And shall go out to deceive the nations which are in the four quarters of the earth, Gog and Magog, to gather them together to battle: the number of whom is as the sand of the sea. 9And they went up on the breadth of the earth, and compassed the camp of the saints about, and the beloved city: and fire came down from God out of heaven, and devoured them.
__ ______ _________
J quote.
That raising of the dead will PRECEDE those who are alive and remain until the parousia.
So I most definately DO NOT say that Daniel will be raised 1000 years after the parousia because that would be unbiblical.
___________________ _______ _______
My reply.
Well, I’m glad that you now see the light and agree with what the Bible says along with Vinsight4u and me.

You wrote:
So that argument can be placed at your feet also, because you have two different times for the resurrection of the living and dead in Christ.
**************************
J quote
If I ever talked about resurrected the living it would be a massive typo because there can not be a resurrection of the 'living.'
Webster..resurrect= restore to life....
------------_____ ________________ ________
My reply.
Well we can see what the BIBLE says about that. It says you are not right.
1 Thessalonians 4:16. For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first: 17THEN WE THAT ARE ALIVE and remain shall be CAUGHT UP TOGETHER WITH THEM in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord
So that puts that theory out the window where it belongs.
_____ _________ _____________
J quotes me.
I said to her.
You also place the millennium before the second coming yet we are still here and of course so is the Earth
The Millennium is after the second coming and after the wedding supper in Rev 19: 1,2,3, 6, 7, 8, 9..
______ _____ ___________
J quote
PC, try this...Assume the parousia is Dec 25, 2003. Now read Rev.19:1-9. Does it fit okay?
Now assume the parousia is a million years from now...does it fit? Now assume the parousia was 1000 years in the past...does it fit? All Rev 19 is telling you is what goes on and that is what goes on no matter when this is. It is a VISION!!!!!
_____ ___________ ____________
My reply.
The Millennium won’t happen until the second coming and the righteous receive the blessing at the wedding supper, then give chase at the battle of Armageddon causing the remnant to be killed as I have explained and proved using the Bible.
So all this stuff you put forward above is biblically unsound and flawed!
______ _________ ___________
J quote.
So now that we have dodged around the issue let's go right back to:
15According to the Lord's own word, we tell you that we who are still alive, who are left till the coming of the Lord, will certainly not precede those who have fallen asleep.
_________ ________ _____________
My reply.
You have proven nothing biblically with your last statement.
___ ______________ _______
PC does this happen somewhere really close to the parousia which is immedieatly AFTER the great tribulation?
____ ______ _________________
My reply The sequence has been explained to you by myself and Vinsight4u he and I have used the Bible but you seem unable to prove your point.
_________ ___________ ______________
J quote.
I'll help you ..YES it does. Paul, in this verse IS talking about the righteous. AND these RIGHTEOUS are being raised BEFORE those alive at the coming. BUt because they are raised to live it follows that they were dead or as the verse says FALLEN ASLEEP.
That would make them part of the REST of the DEAD from Rev 20:5.
______ ________ ___________
My reply.
1 Thessalonians 4: 16. For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the DEAD IN CHRIST: 17Then WE WHICH ARE ALIVE remain SHALL BE CAUGHT UP TOGETHER WITH THEM in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.
Now how difficult is that for you to understand Justme? Those, “WE WHICH ARE ALIVE remain SHALL BE CAUGHT UP TOGETHER WITH THEM in the clouds”
When will this happen at trump 7 at the second coming, that seems to be a real problem for you and that is a pity.
_________ __________ ____________-
J quote.
We know it isn't only the wicked that is raised after that because just as John sees the coming on the clouds he is told to record for all to read:
13Then I heard a voice from heaven say, "Write: Blessed are the dead who die in the Lord from now on."
________ ________ ___________-
Rev 14;11. And the smoke of their torment ascendeth up for ever and ever: and they have no rest day nor night, who worship the beast and his image, and whosoever receiveth the mark of his name.

This is the tribulation period of the plagues and how the Saints are to be patient until the 1335 days spoken of by Daniel 12: 11. And he said, Go thy way, Daniel: for the words are closed up and sealed till the time of the end. 10Many shall be purified, and made white, and tried; but the wicked shall do wickedly: and none of the wicked shall understand; but the wise shall understand. 11And from the time that the daily sacrifice shall be taken away, and the abomination that maketh desolate set up, there shall be a thousand two hundred and ninety days. 12Blessed is he that waiteth, and cometh to the thousand three hundred and five and thirty days

Rev 14:12. Here is the patience of the saints: here are they that keep the commandments of God, and the faith of Jesus.
13And I heard a voice from heaven saying unto me, Write, Blessed are the dead which die in the Lord from henceforth: Yea, saith the Spirit, that they may rest from their labours; and their works do follow them.

So this is the story until the second coming.

14And I looked, and behold a white cloud, and upon the cloud one sat like unto the Son of man, having on his head a golden crown, and in his hand a sharp sickle.

And the angel thrust in his sickle into the earth, and gathered the vine of the earth, and cast it into the great winepress of the wrath of God.
________ __________ _____________
J quote.
Those who will be blessed are those in the LOrd who die after the parousia.
I think you're getting it PC.
Justme
___ _______ ____________

Maranatha.

Prophecy Countdown.

 

[Justme]

Hi PC,

It is done!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

PC quoted a bit of my earlier post:
J quote.
I say that the first resurrection ,Rev 20:4 and 6 is prior to the parousia and Daniel is raised at the time of the great tribulation which is followed immediately by a celestial display which includes the coming of the son of man.
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

And then PC said this:

Yes I agree, that is what I have been saying all the time.
*************************

Way to go PC now all you have to figure out is WHEN that great tribulation is and you will be able to see clearly why everybody knows all you stuff about USA and Britain is junk.

Now maybe you can take another shot at wha the abomination is............

I'm proud of you PC, I knew you'd get it, I just didn't think it could take anybody this long,

Justme

Justme

 

[Justme]

Hi again PC,

Okay so I knew you'd slipped up and worded a sentence wrong, but it was fun anyway.

I'll go thru your post again.

I had stated:
Yes, PC the verses you quoted speak of two resurrections. Let's name them just for clarity...........how about if we call the first resurrection the 'first ' resurrection and that other one the 'rest of the dead', or if you prefer the 'other' resurrection.
____ ___________ __________

PC replied:
My reply no let’s not, I like to call them by their proper names .
The “resurrection of life.”
The “resurrection of damnation.”
___ __________ __________

Gee, you would think the bible would have used the proper names, what was that agin...Rev 20
This is the first resurrection. 6Blessed and holy are those who have part in the first resurrection.

Yes, there it is, the bible called it the 'first' resurrection, just like I did.

But let's just stop here one more time....
Who is in this 'first resurrection?

The beheaded...
those who did not worship the beast, therefore those who went thru the great tribulation somehow......

Those are the ones who reigned with Christ for a 1000 years........

DANIEL WASN'T ONE OF THEM..

So when was Daniel going to be raised to life?
5(The rest of the dead did not come to life until the thousand years were ended.)

Can you see that yet PC? Daniel wasn't in the first resurrection and you aknowledged that in your post and that puts Daniel in the REST OF THE DEAD. Where else can he fit. Well, I'll show you other verses again that tell us when Daniel will rise.
13 "As for you, go your way till the end. You will rest, and then at the end of the days you will rise to receive your allotted inheritance."

The angel was speaking TO Daniel here. Daniel was going to 'sleep in the dust,"

Daniel will rise at the end of the days it says, whens that?

There will be a time of distress such as has not happened from the beginning of nations until then. But at that time your people-everyone whose name is found written in the book-will be delivered.

Daniel was being told that his people will be resurrected at this time of distress.

Gee, that would be that great tribulation that is followed immediately by the coming of the son of man.

So now from verse 13 that Daniel himself will sleep in the dust as well and will rise at that time as well.

However, what is the timing of the raising of those who sleep in the dirt?

Well, those who have fallen asleep such as Daniel will be raised before those who are physically alive at the coming of the son of man.

Daniel is NOT in the first resurrection described in Rev 20. Daniel is raised at the time of the great tribulation. Daniel is raised BEFORE/AT/DURING the great tribulation which is followed immediately by the coming of the son of man.

So...
did God not mean to say 'first' resurrection in Rev 20:4 and 6?

Was there another resurrection before the 'first' resurrection?

Where were the REST of the DEAD that is talked about in Daniel 12:1,2,3? You know, the people who sleep in the dust, those who have fallen asleep?

I can tell you where these people, who are NOT part of the first resurrection are raised!!!!!!!!!! In fact I think I might have showed you a couple times, but for some reason you missed it.

1 Thess 4
15According to the Lord's own word, we tell you that we who are still alive, who are left till the coming of the Lord, will certainly not precede those who have fallen asleep.

You always simply cut and paste the next verse which shows you know what this is, but cannot bring yourself to believe the words of the bible . If you read the words of this verse as is, your whole theology folds like a tent. I know that, I have always known that, how long have you known that as well, PC? I feel sorry for you.

You see the next verse has nothing to do with changing the order of the events, the dead still rise before those who are alive at the coming....the verse says the same thing as verse 15. The only thing is this is people who have fallen asleep, they were DEAD PC, they were DEAD, they were the REST OF THE DEAD who would rise at the time of the great tribulation, they would be raised BEFORE anyone who was ALIVE at the coming.

This is the last day as we learned in Daniel 12:13
13 "As for you, go your way till the end. You will rest, and then at the end of the days you will rise to receive your allotted inheritance."

We also read of it here:
Matthew 24
14And this gospel of the kingdom will be preached in the whole world as a testimony to all nations, and then the end will come.

The end or the last day this is when this takes place. It takes place the same day as this:

John 12
48There is a judge for the one who rejects me and does not accept my words; that very word which I spoke will condemn him at the last day.

Now for that resurrection of damnation.....

Would there be 10 people that see John 25:25,28,29 as not being at the same time? The same for the first few verses of Daniel 12. I realize you have to cling to that idea or your doctrine is in the toilet, but I honestly can't see how you can ignore all the biblical evidence we have given you...however, to each his own.

You wrote:
That’s clear the “resurrection of life” for the living and dead in Christ. “CAUGHT UP TOGETHER.” Is obviously going to happen at the second coming!
**************************

Paul never said the 'living would be resurrected. Paul said this:
17After that, we who are still alive and are left will be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. And so we will be with the Lord forever.

First please notice the "AFTER THAT" part. It says we will be caught up together with them...where in the clouds... the same place the others went. Together.
Think of it this way. Today you put the black horse in the pasture. A month from now you put the white horse in the pasture. The horses are in the pasture together. Elimentary my dear Watson.

Does it say God is going to kill off all those people at that moment? He would have to because flesh and blood can't get in to heaven. To resurrect, meaning to come back to life, one would pretty well have to be dead first. So, no, Paul didn't say 'live' people were going to float around in the clouds....

I can tell you one thing for certain that every man, woman and child who is alive at the parousia is going to physically die. For sure.

You said I wrote this:
Look at the proof about what Justme said so she can’t deny it, it is right here.
Justme’s quotes.
"To anyone who believes the parousia is 'soon' then the 1000 year reign is either going on now or it is over."

"So all this is to biblically prove that the 1000 year reign with Christ takkes place in Heaven PRIOR to the parousia.
Do you agree with that?"
********** I don't know if I wrote it or not, but that is biblically corerect.

I don't mind you pointing out things I have known since boyhood, of course not.

You wrote:
This is what I said from post 541 There is no separation of a thousand years for the DEAD or LIVING RIGHTEOUS in the next verse!
********************8

(back to 1 Thess 4 again)

No, there is no 1000 year separation there. The problem is in you wanting there to be two separate resurrections, one for the righteous and one a thousand years later for the bad guys. You're biblically bankrupt in trying to biblicallly prove that. You tried and nobody bought it. Believe it yourself if you have to, but trying to suck others into that idea won't work very good I don't think.

1 Thess 4 is talking about only the good guys, tho. So is 1 Cor 15 isn't it?The bad guys meeting with the Lord to recieve the bad news of their judgment is told in other places, but GEE, PC, what was that great tribulation for again???????????

You wrote:
The Millennium won’t happen until the second coming and the righteous receive the blessing at the wedding supper, then give chase at the battle of Armageddon causing the remnant to be killed as I have explained and proved using the Bible.

AND I have used verses to show that the 'first' resurrection has to occur in the spiritual realm prior to the parousia.

The wedding supper fits in with the parousia no matter when the parousia is. What doesn't fit with the bible is the REST of the DEAD(Rev 20:5)coming to life AFTER the parousia.

For that to have merit there has to be biblical evidence that the wicked are raised as a singe group at a time 1000 years after the parousia. No such biblical proof exists. I thought you had dropped that idea long ago anyway.

Let's start again with this verse...
48There is a judge for the one who rejects me and does not accept my words; that very word which I spoke will condemn him at the last day.
I am going to keep putting verse up to you that show the resurrection at the parousia includes both the good and the bad guys until even you see the light........should I live that long.

I want to end with this:
PC wrote:
My reply.
You have proven nothing biblically with your last statement.

The last statement was this:

J quote.
So now that we have dodged around the issue let's go right back to:
15According to the Lord's own word, we tell you that we who are still alive, who are left till the coming of the Lord, will certainly not precede those who have fallen asleep.
_________ ________ _____________

That is the verse PC constantly ignores......does PC even consider it scripture or what?

Justme

 

[Prophecy Countdown]

My reply.
Have any of you noticed how, when Justme gets so excited when she thinks she has some small trivial kind of victory, in her own mind, after half quoting people she then does this “!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!.” Very strange behaviour.


A reminder of what I actually said from post 541, which was conveniently left out by Justme.

"There is no separation of a thousand years for the DEAD or LIVING RIGHTEOUS in the next verse!"

"4 Thessalonians 4: For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and THE DEAD IN CHRIST SHALL RISE FIRST: 17Then we which are ALIVE remain shall be CAUGHT UP TOGETHER WITH THEM with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and SO SHALL WE EVER BE WITH THE LORD."

"From that moment on, both the dead and living lifted from the Earth, they are promised to be with the Lord."

"No thousand years separation in that last verse, between the dead or living, ALL raised are to be with Jesus forever!"

"That is why He brings His reward with Him and guess what that is? Eternal life for the righteous and a damnation for the wicked 1000 years later."

Rev 22: 12. And, behold, I come quickly; and my reward is with me, to give every man according as his work shall be.
______ ___________ ______________
J quote.
I say that the first resurrection ,Rev 20:4 and 6 is prior to the parousia and Daniel is raised at the time of the great tribulation which is followed immediately by a celestial display which includes the coming of the son of man.
_______ ________ _______
"My reply.
Yes I agree, that is what I have been saying all the time.
So what is your problem?'

So what was I agreeing to. I followed up with the next Bible verse statement clarifying my position that it refers to those raised at the second coming including Daniel, which I have stated many times in many posts.

'Rev 20:4. And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgement was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.'

I also said that the wicked dead, stay dead for 1000 years and quoted this verse from an earlier posts.

'Rev 20: 5. But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished.
“I said that this RESURRECTION OF LIFE HAPPENS AT THE SECOND COMING which occurs before the millennium.”

So with the above qualifying statements I was not in agreement with this part of Justme’s statement in red and I had verified that fact with the above verses.

Justme’s Quote “I say that the first resurrection ,Rev 20:4 and 6 is prior to the parousia.”

So just to remind Justme, I will re-quote. “I said that this RESURRECTION OF LIFE HAPPENS AT THE SECOND COMING which occurs before the millennium.”

This is the bit that Justme and I agree on and that her next quote happens at the same time.

Justme’s Quote. “Daniel is raised at the time of the great tribulation which is followed immediately by a celestial display which includes the coming of the son of man.”

I then quoted and wrote this.


'Rev 20: This is the first resurrection. 6. Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years.'

This is what I said, from post 541.
'1 Thessalonians 4: 16For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first: 17Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord. 18Wherefore comfort one another with these words.
I said there is no 1000 years between the righteous dead or living being raised and “caught up together.”

"So don’t mislead people by not quoting me properly at least show them the quotes to prove your point, but you can’t because I never said it.
I said that the wicked are raised after the 1000 years.
Rev 20: 7. And when the thousand years are expired, Satan shall be loosed out of his prison, 8And shall go out to deceive the nations which are in the four quarters of the earth, Gog and Magog, to gather them together to battle: the number of whom is as the sand of the sea. 9And they went up on the breadth of the earth, and compassed the camp of the saints about, and the beloved city: and fire came down from God out of heaven, and devoured them."

That is for the record so don’t read anything into what she writes it’s pure nonsense.
____ ___________ ___________ _______
J quote
Way to go PC now all you have to figure out is WHEN that great tribulation is and you will be able to see clearly why everybody knows all you stuff about USA and Britain is junk.
________ __________ _______________-
My reply.
Why does she NOT understand?
Daniel 12: 10. Many shall be purified, and made white, and tried; but the wicked shall do wickedly: and none of the wicked shall understand; but the wise shall understand.
This is the bit she does not understand in the following verse.

Daniel 12: 11. And from the time the daily shall be taken away, and the abomination that maketh desolate set up, a thousand two hundred and ninety days.
Daniel 12: 12. Blessed he that waiteth, and cometh to the thousand three hundred and five and thirty days.
_________________ _________ _____
Justme quote,
“everybody knows all you stuff about USA and Britain is junk.”
______ ______________ ___________


Well Justme, before you can say “everybody” Have you checked and asked “EVERYBODY” or are you telling lies?

Also the statement you made about “USA and Britain is junk” means that you MUST KNOW the real prophetic explanation!

If you DON’T have the clear and right explanation' TO BACK UP your statements about it being “JUNK” then that would prove that you are full of hot air and are bluffing!
So off you go now, you can give YOUR EXPERT and DETAILED EXPLANATION, as to why you think my explanation of those same verses is as you put it that . Quote. “everybody knows all you stuff about USA and Britain is junk.”


There you are, a second challenge for you. to place the verses concernred with your explanations in full ,instead of being critical of others then we can see how much you really understand!
I remember the last challenge I gave you like this and when it came down to it, you went to water.

They say “Put up or shut up.”

Or are some people just full of hot air?

 

[Prophecy Countdown]

Trouble with pc

 

[Justme]

Hi PC,

Just a short note:

Just the Facts has a history lesson that will show you how that Daniel stuff really shakes out:

http://www.christianforums.com/t63997&page=5

I'm sure you are posting more so I'll wait a bit.

Justme

 

[Prophecy Countdown]

I have the Bible thanks.

 

[Prophecy Countdown]

Greeting 66Books, Colbey and Vinsight4u.
I thank you for your kind word to me.
I pray that you are all well.
How biblical are Justme’s statements?
Hi again PC,

Okay so I knew you'd slipped up and worded a sentence wrong, but it was fun anyway.
_____________________________ _
Yeah, you wish! Keep deluding yourself.
_____________ _________
J.
K. I'll go thru your post again.
____ _________ _________
PC, : You mean go through, not “thru.”
__________ ________ _____________

I had stated:
Yes, PC the verses you quoted speak of two resurrections. Let's name them just for clarity...........how about if we call the first resurrection the 'first ' resurrection and that other one the 'rest of the dead', or if you prefer the 'other' resurrection.
____ ___________ __________

PC replied:
My reply, no let’s not, I like to call them by their proper names .
The “resurrection of life.”
The “resurrection of damnation.”
THE BIBLE USES THESE TERMS AND AS I SAID THEY ARE THE CORRECT TERMS THAT I PREFER.
__________ ____ ____________
J.
Gee, you would think the bible would have used the proper names, what was that agin...Rev 20
This is the first resurrection. 6Blessed and holy are those who have part in the first resurrection.
___ ___________ _________
PC. So J is saying that,
The “resurrection of life.”
The “resurrection of damnation.”
are NOT the right terms?
_______ ______ ___________
J.

Yes, there it is, the bible called it the 'first' resurrection, just like I did.
____ ____________ _________
PC, that is her choice folks however, I prefer. The “resurrection of life.”
The “resurrection of damnation,” so that there is no confusion.
But Justme has a problem with this and is wasting everyone’s time on it making a BIG issue out of it!
_________ _ _________
J.
But let's just stop here one more time....Who is in this 'first resurrection?
The beheaded...those who did not worship the beast, therefore those who went thru the great tribulation somehow......Those are the ones who reigned with Christ for a 1000 years........DANIEL WASN'T ONE OF THEM..
__ ____________________ ______-
PC. Who is raised at “the resurrection of life”? ALL the righteous dead AND the righteous LIVING” “caught up together.” Which Justme cant seem to believe!

1 Thessalonians 4: 15For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep. 16For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first: 17Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.
So from the above who is raised? The righteous dead and living.
Can anybody living before the Lamb’s sacrifice be called righteous and qualify to be righteous and be raised at the “resurrection of life?
Not according it seems to Justme.

Geneses 7: 1. And the LORD said unto Noah, Come thou and all thy house into the ark; for thee have I seen RIGHTEOUS before me in this generation.

Malachi 3: 18. Then shall ye return, and discern between the righteous and the wicked, between him that serveth God and him that serveth him not.

Psalm 36:17. A little that a righteous man hath is better than the riches of many wicked. 17For the arms of the wicked shall be broken: but the LORD upholdeth the righteous. 18The LORD knoweth the days of the upright: and their inheritance shall be for ever.

So was Daniel a righteous man like the above people?
Does that qualify him to be a part of the first resurrection of life?
Of course it does. But Justme says he is not a part of “the resurrection of life” that occurs at the second coming.
______ _________ _____________
J.
So when was Daniel going to be raised to life?
5(The rest of the dead did not come to life until the thousand years were ended.)
___ _________ ___________ ______
PC.
Daniel will be raised at the resurrection of life, where ALL the righteous dead are raised along with the living righteous.
Daniel was a righteous man so it is the Righteous dead and living that are to be raised at the resurrection of life.
What does Our Lord say about it?
Matthew 10: 41. He that receiveth a prophet in the name of a prophet shall receive a prophet’s reward; and he that receiveth a righteous man in the name of a righteous man shall receive a righteous man’s reward.
Well folks that deals with that theory of Justme’s.
___________ _________ ____________
J.
Can you see that yet PC? Daniel wasn't in the first resurrection and you aknowledged that in your post and that puts Daniel in the REST OF THE DEAD. _______ ________ ______________
PC.
Daniel will be in the resurrection of life with all the dead as I have stated over and over again as everyone has seen on my posts.
I did not acknowledge anything of the sort and never have as many that read my posts would verify.
Daniel will be raised as he is a righteous man therefore my last Bible verses verify.
______ ________ ______________
J.
Where else can he fit. Well, I'll show you other verses again that tell us when Daniel will rise.
13 "As for you, go your way till the end. You will rest, and then at the end of the days you will rise to receive your allotted inheritance."
___ _____ ___________________
PC. The reward is a righteous mans inheritance.
Matthew 10: 41. He that receiveth a prophet in the name of a prophet shall receive a prophet’s reward; and he that receiveth a righteous man in the name of a righteous man shall receive a righteous man’s reward.
______________ _______ __________ ______
J
The angel was speaking TO Daniel here. Daniel was going to 'sleep in the dust,"
Daniel will rise at the end of the days it says, whens that?
There will be a time of distress such as has not happened from the beginning of nations until then. But at that time your people-everyone whose name is found written in the book-will be delivered.
Daniel was being told that his people will be resurrected at this time of distress.
Daniel was being told that his people will be resurrected at this time of distress.
Gee, that would be that great tribulation that is followed immediately by the coming of the son of man.
_______ ________ ________________
PC Let me repeat these verses just for Justme, folks and see if she can see?
Daniel will rise at the second coming when all the righteous dead and living are raised “Caught up together.”

Psalm 37:16 A little that a righteous man hath is better than the riches of many wicked. 17For the arms of the wicked shall be broken: but the LORD upholdeth the righteous. 18The LORD knoweth the days of the upright: and their inheritance shall be for ever.

Matthew 10: 41. He that receiveth a prophet in the name of a prophet shall receive a prophet’s reward; and he that receiveth a righteous man in the name of a righteous man shall receive a righteous man’s reward.

Rev 22:12. And, behold, I come quickly; and my reward is with me, to give every man according as his work shall be
Every argument Justme puts about this is countered by the Bible and makes her theory a mockery of truth.
________ __________ ___________
J.
So now from verse 13 that Daniel himself will sleep in the dust as well and will rise at that time as well.
However, what is the timing of the raising of those who sleep in the dirt?
Well, those who have fallen asleep such as Daniel will be raised before those who are physically alive at the coming of the son of man.
Daniel is NOT in the first resurrection described in Rev 20. Daniel is raised at the time of the great tribulation. Daniel is raised BEFORE/AT/DURING the great tribulation which is followed immediately by the coming of the son of man.
_______ _______ ______________
PC.
Yes folks and what happens at the end of the tribulation period.
Rev 22: 12. And, behold, I come quickly; and my reward is with me, to give every man according as his work shall be
What is the reward.
Matthew 10: 41. He that receiveth a prophet in the name of a prophet shall receive a prophet’s reward; and he that receiveth a righteous man in the name of a righteous man shall receive a righteous man’s reward.
____________ _____ ________
J.
So...
did God not mean to say 'first' resurrection in Rev 20:4 and 6?
Was there another resurrection before the 'first' resurrection?
Where were the REST of the DEAD that is talked about in Daniel 12:1,2,3? You know, the people who sleep in the dust, those who have fallen asleep?
I can tell you where these people, who are NOT part of the first resurrection are raised!!!!!!!!!! In fact I think I might have showed you a couple times, but for some reason you missed it.

1 Thess 4
15According to the Lord's own word, we tell you that we who are still alive, who are left till the coming of the Lord, will certainly not precede those who have fallen asleep.

You always simply cut and paste the next verse which shows you know what this is, but cannot bring yourself to believe the words of the bible . If you read the words of this verse as is, your whole theology folds like a tent. I know that, I have always known that, how long have you known that as well, PC? I feel sorry for you.
_______ ___________ _____________
PC.
Bible folks.
1 Thessalonians 4: 15. For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep.

When our Lord returns what will happen to us if we are alive at the time of the second advent at trumpet 7.

1 Corinthians 15:52. In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the LAST TRUMP: for the trumpet shall sound, and the DEAD SHALL BE RAISED incorruptible, and WE SHALL BE CHANGED.
53For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality.
54So when this corruptible shall have put on incorruption, and this mortal shall have put on immortality, then shall be brought to pass the saying that is written, Death is swallowed up in victory.

55O death, where is thy sting? O grave, where is thy victory?

Now if death is swallowed up at the second coming at the resurrection of life, how can there be some righteous, like Daniel, still dead?

1Thesalonians 4: 16. For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:


1 Thessalonians 4: 17Then WE WHICH ARE ALIVE remain SHALL BE CAUGHT UP TOGETHER WITH THEM in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord. 18Wherefore comfort one another with these words.
_ ___________ ________ _____________