A small rapture?

[WilliamLhk]

One caveat about making the bowls sequentially after the trumpets is that the Mark of the Beast in Revelation 13 comes "after" the trumpets,

Nothing in Rev. 13 speaks about precisely when the Mark takes place with respect to the trumpets. Other than that the Abyss, from which the Beast will emerge (11:7; 19:8), is opened at the 5th Trumpet.

and the Parousia of Jesus on the clouds is shown in Revelation 14,

Nothing in Rev. 14 mentions the Parousia, a very specific term for a very specific event.

and it is depicted before the wrath of God, as it is Jesus harvesting the earth, and then the angels (the reapers at the end of the world in the wheat and tares parable) gather together the clusters of the vine of the Earth and set up the winepress for Jesus to tread.

Clear as mud to me. Sorry, but I can't respond to what you mean, because I'm not sure what it is.

 

[Jamdoc]

Nothing in Rev. 13 speaks about precisely when the Mark takes place with respect to the trumpets. Other than that the Abyss, from which the Beast will emerge (11:7; 19:8), is opened at the 5th Trumpet.

Nothing in Rev. 14 mentions the Parousia, a very specific term for a very specific event.

Clear as mud to me. Sorry, but I can't respond to what you mean, because I'm not sure what it is.

Revelation 14

14 And I looked, and behold a white cloud, and upon the cloud one sat like unto the Son of man, having on his head a golden crown, and in his hand a sharp sickle.

Who is this if not Jesus?

15 And another angel came out of the temple, crying with a loud voice to him that sat on the cloud, Thrust in thy sickle, and reap: for the time is come for thee to reap; for the harvest of the earth is ripe.
16 And he that sat on the cloud thrust in his sickle on the earth; and the earth was reaped.

He harvests, and that harvest is His, it is not put into the winepress.

17 And another angel came out of the temple which is in heaven, he also having a sharp sickle.
18 And another angel came out from the altar, which had power over fire; and cried with a loud cry to him that had the sharp sickle, saying, Thrust in thy sharp sickle, and gather the clusters of the vine of the earth; for her grapes are fully ripe.
19 And the angel thrust in his sickle into the earth, and gathered the vine of the earth, and cast it into the great winepress of the wrath of God.
20 And the winepress was trodden without the city, and blood came out of the winepress, even unto the horse bridles, by the space of a thousand and six hundred furlongs.

The wrath of God begins when Jesus comes on the clouds.

I would also point out that in this vision Jesus has a single crown. In Revelation 19 His clothes are already stained in blood (which Isaiah 63 clarifies is the blood of His enemies as He tread the winepress alone), and He is wearing many crowns.

They are the crowns of the kingdoms of the Earth that He has overthrown and taken as His. It's as in Revelation 11 where the Kingdoms of the World are declared the Kingdom of God and His Christ. Revelation 11's 7th trumpet and Armageddon are parallel, not sequential.

If sequential you have Jesus claiming the Kingdoms, then going down to 1 crown, then back up to many.
Vs a parallel understanding He comes from heaven with one crown, and then takes many.

 

[John Lamb]

Doesn't sound like that at all. It specifically states that --

2:1 ...the Parousia of our Lord... 3 will not come until the apostasy comes first, AND the man of Sin is revealed... 8 ...whom the Lord will consume with the Spirit of His mouth, and destroy with the brightness of His Parousia.

Pretty darned clear: no Parousia until the apostasy and the Man of Sin/Son of Perdition, BOTH.

παρουσία, meaning "arrival", "coming", or "presence". That doesn’t state or interpret as “rapture” only the Second Coming.

 

[Guojing]

"The time of Jacob's trouble" is post-trib and post-rapture. Briefly, the End Times will involve consecutive stages of trials and consequent judgments:

1) the Great Tribulation of the first five Seals, while worldwide, will be the time of the trial of the Church, which will end at the 6th Seal Parousia of Christ, rapture, and beginning of God's wrath. Spirit level judgment.

2) the Trumpets will be the time of Jacob's trouble, ending with the establishment of the Kingdom of God on earth and deliverance of Israel after 3-1/2 times. Soul level judgment.

3) the Bowls will be the time of the judgment of the nations/Gentiles, ending at Armageddon. Flesh level judgment.

All detailed beginning here:

48. The End Times and the Exodus, Part 1 First of a four-part series that shows how the events of the Israelite Exodus out of Egypt, and their subsequent wilderness sojourn and conquest of Canaan, allegorically portray in great detail the full sequence of events surrounding the Second Coming of Christ. Begins with the Seven Spirits.
The End Times and the Exodus, Part 1

So how are you connected to Jacob?

 

[Marilyn C]

I say all this to explain this post. I still believe a Rapture will happen. But will it have the same strange phenomena happen as with the Pretrib scenarios, with people disappearing and the world left trying to explain where people went? This seems all so mythical to me, so fable-like! I'm a bit embarrassed to present the Gospel with things so unlikely, though the resurrectiton is equally a miracle but far more likely in my thinking.

Hi Randy,

I agree that it will not be like that. Everyday people are going missing - holidays, moving, homeless, kidnapped, etc. The Police will not look for someone immediately, only after a few days missing. And there is no central spot for the world to know a certain group went missing.

And really, how many people will miss you when you are gone? Not to be rude, but we only have a small group of people who would in a few days miss us. And then what are the police going to say? They will have to wait and see, they will say.

Then God`s word tells us that just after we are gone the Russian Federation & others will come down to the mountains of Israel where God will deal with them - great earthquake and a volcanic eruption, (fire and brimstone) (Ez. 38: 20 - 22 & Joel 2) So everyone will be watching that unfold on their mobiles and TV etc.

We are not so important to the world as we may think. And BTW we will not be taken unawares for we will `see the day approaching` (Heb. 10: 25) and be ready. (1 Thess. 5: 4)

 

[RandyPNW]

Hi Randy,

I agree that it will not be like that. Everyday people are going missing - holidays, moving, homeless, kidnapped, etc. The Police will not look for someone immediately, only after a few days missing. And there is no central spot for the world to know a certain group went missing.

And really, how many people will miss you when you are gone? Not to be rude, but we only have a small group of people who would in a few days miss us. And then what are the police going to say? They will have to wait and see, they will say.

Then God`s word tells us that just after we are gone the Russian Federation & others will come down to the mountains of Israel where God will deal with them - great earthquake and a volcanic eruption, (fire and brimstone) (Ez. 38: 20 - 22 & Joel 2) So everyone will be watching that unfold on their mobiles and TV etc.

We are not so important to the world as we may think. And BTW we will not be taken unawares for we will `see the day approaching` (Heb. 10: 25) and be ready. (1 Thess. 5: 4)

Hi Marilyn. I actually think that it would be *huge news* if millions of Christians went missing. Many people are by nature sentimental, and would not forget. I'm a news junkie. This is *Big News!*

So I have a problem thinking it will happen the way Pretrib Rapture films portray it. Yes, a smaller number of people could go missing without a lot of attention, particularly if the people were thought the victim of some kind of catastrophe, man-made or not.

Still, it appears that the Rapture will be more like what happened with Elijah. I agree that those who are waiting for the day will not be surprised when it happens. Elijah certainly wasn't surprised! We'll all be ready when it happens if we're living for Christ, Pretrib, Midtrib, or Postrib. Living for the Lord is what makes us ready...

 

[RandyPNW]

Your pretty good at just swatting my post away as pesky mosquitoes, but have you ever noticed that there are trillions of stars in the sky?

All those stars are coming to earth and gathering souls at the rapture/Second Coming. That is enough angels to have 4 or 5 for each human being on the planet. I am pretty sure however it turns out that the angels have humans covered during this Baptism of Fire event.

Timothy, how can I seriously respond to trillions of stars coming to gather souls on earth? Are stars angels? I don't think so!

In Matthew 25 we see the angels moving the sheep and goats from all over the earth to Jerusalem to be judged by Jesus on His glorious throne. Why would they watch billions die, then seconds later start moving them to Jerusalem? Maybe they do, maybe they don't let them die, but certainly by the end the goats are in the LOF, and the sheep also raptured out of Adam's dead corruptible flesh into God's permanent incorruptible physical body, just like the church that was raptured at the main event. The difference is that those sheep were of Israel the remnant restored waiting to live on the earth during the Millennium, and the goats were Israel judged and cast into the LOF. The church will be waiting in Paradise while this judgment on earth takes place.

Okay, you're Pretrib. I can't comment on that either. Yes, Israel has both sheep and goats who have not yet come to the revelation of Christ. Judgment will come to that nation, and return the nation to a nation who follow God.

We know that only 2 billion souls are accounted for in the Seals. So the rest of the 6 billion are still alive during the Trumpets where another 2 billion souls are removed.

Yes. There are presently about 8 billion on earth, at last count. 2 billion would be 1/4 of the earth, which is a number we're given. We also hear about 1/3 of the earth killed. Since I don't know if "earth" refers to the whole globe or only to a certain region on earth I can't say what number are actually killed. "Earth" is a word governed by context. And for me, the context is not clear. I just can't comment.

After the first 6 Trumpets, only 4 billion will be left. Then we see 7 Thunders that John was not allowed to write about, but they still happened. Assuming the Thunders stick with the math, only 2 billion will remain at the sounding of the 7th Trumpet. And we are still not clear on whether or not the church is part of any of those 2 billion removed at each step.

Well, I'm Postrib, so I'm clear that it will *not* be a Rapture of the Church that is removed prior to the 2nd Coming/7th Trumpet.

The point being not many could be left at the 7th Trumpet. Thus 42 months given to Satan may not even be necessary.

I take your point regardless. The dwindling population of the earth under judgment, or perhaps just the catastrophic conditions of the earth before the 2nd Coming will render the disappearance of relatively few Christians of less importance to the surviving world.

Many Christians will be put to death by antiChristianity, both before and during the reign of Antichrist. Christianity will grow lukewarm--it already has. And those who are faithful will be disliked and considered fanatics. Their status may be largely ignored up until their "disappearance."

So are the 2 billion mentioned in the 4th Seal those allowed to die anyway, or the church being removed? If all 2.6 billion are redeemed who claim to be on earth today under the name Christianity, that should cover the 4th Seal whether any are alive and remain or not. Paul would still be correct even if the lost tried to eradicate Christianity in their attack on Israel, which is the catalyst in Zechariah 14 where Jesus returns to the Mount of Olives. Those alive and remain even after the 4th Seal where 2 billion are killed, will still be raptured at the 5th and 6th Seal meeting in the air. And if there are not 2 billion redeemed souls currently on the earth, then those alive and remain after the 4th Seal will still be raptured.

The question wasn't whether the martyrs of the Church will be Raptured, or whether those "remaining" will be Raptured. My question concerns the world that survives Armageddon and continues earth's history past the 2nd Coming. What will happen on earth when millions perhaps of Christians disappear at Christ's 2nd Coming? Will they be doctors and nurses operating on a person's heart, and just disappear in the middle of the operation? Will they be a person operating a crane, and just disappear, dropping a load on something?

The thief in the night moment of the Second Coming was never about the instant destruction of all flesh no matter how much Amil want to make us think that. That is why Revelation 19 cannot be the Second Coming which is not a thief in the night moment either.

Sorry, the book of Revelation describes Christ's Coming "as a thief" in the context of the 2nd Coming/Armageddon.

Rev 16.15 “Look, I come like a thief! Blessed is the one who stays awake and remains clothed, so as not to go naked and be shamefully exposed.” 16 Then they gathered the kings together to the place that in Hebrew is called Armageddon.

Besides, has not the church always understood that a soul does not actually move on it's own, but has always been transported by angels? Luke 16:22

I don't have a problem believing angels move people at death.

Also the Second Coming will drastically change the whole earth as continents and mountains themselves will be moved. The angels will have to remove people from airplanes if all human works are burned up. If one is going to take 2 Peter 3:10 literally, nothing will be left on the surface of the earth nor in the air. All will be burned up.

World-wide earthquakes will indeed cause normal working activities to cease. This could explain how pilots are grounded, to avoid landing on damaged runways, etc. People would not be in their normal business/job activities. Good explanation!

That's probably the best explanation I've heard so far. Thanks. Don't know if that's what you meant, but your ideas have led me there....

 

[Marilyn C]

Hi Marilyn. I actually think that it would be *huge news* if millions of Christians went missing. Many people are by nature sentimental, and would not forget. I'm a news junkie. This is *Big News!*

So I have a problem thinking it will happen the way Pretrib Rapture films portray it. Yes, a smaller number of people could go missing without a lot of attention, particularly if the people were thought the victim of some kind of catastrophe, man-made or not.

Still, it appears that the Rapture will be more like what happened with Elijah. I agree that those who are waiting for the day will not be surprised when it happens. Elijah certainly wasn't surprised! We'll all be ready when it happens if we're living for Christ, Pretrib, Midtrib, or Postrib. Living for the Lord is what makes us ready...

But Randy, who is the central go to person for them to know that millions of Christians have gone. Thousands of people go missing daily and there is no central posting.

Glad you also see that we wont be surprised. And yes living for the Lord daily and `eagerly waiting` (Heb. 9: 28) also.

 

[RandyPNW]

But Randy, who is the central go to person for them to know that millions of Christians have gone. Thousands of people go missing daily and there is no central posting.

Glad you also see that we wont be surprised. And yes living for the Lord daily and `eagerly waiting` (Heb. 9: 28) also.

The Legacy Media certainly picks its stories!

 

[oikonomia]

You are certainly correct that the common understanding of the rapture as portrayed in the Pretrib movies is incorrect.

Greetings. I don't watch any anymore. I wouldn't anymore go to a movie to learn well the biblical teachings.

All mankind is appointed to die the one time, and after that, the judgment, as Hebrews 9:27 said. The common misperception of the rapture event forgets this one-time death appointment for ALL men - even the saints.

Do you mean that you expect no humans will meet the Lord alive?
I believe some will never taste physical death. They will meet His coming alive and ushered into transfiguration.

I don't take Hebrews 9:27 to force me to not believe verses indicating " we who are living, who are left remaining, will be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air; and thus we will be always with the Lord" (1 Thess. 4:17 RcV) must be wrong.

Whoever specifically the "we" is of the universal church, they will be "living" and "left remaining" on the earth. See what I mean?
It doesn't say "we who are resurrected". Some of the great "we" of the universal church MUST experience being "living" and "left remaining"
at His coming for them. For this reason and others I don't teach that Hebrews 9:27 means everyone who ever lived or will live is appointed to physically expire.

Besides, it is a great testimony of overoming that some of the "we" would be as Enoch. Before his translation he obtained the testimony
that he lived a life in the midst of that generation well pleasing to God.

By faith Enoch was translated so that he should not see death; and he was not found, because God had translated him. For before his translation he obtained the testimony that he had been well pleasing to God. (Heb. 11:5)

 

[oikonomia]

Only resurrected individuals were to take part in the rapture event.

Saying this makes "we who are alive, who are left remaining" Paul's wrong teaching. You're not ready to claim that are you?

Those who were "alive and remain" being caught up in the rapture were those who had been already made alive by the resurrection process - such as those Christ and His Apostles raised from the dead, Lazarus, Dorcas, the Matthew 27:52-53 saints, etc. These were to "remain" on the earth until that return of Christ.

The resurrection process has its aspect aside from physical death. For example, Paul wanted to know in the midst of
all his trials the power of His resurrection.
To know Him and the power of His resurrection and the fellowship of His sufferings, being conformed to His death, (Phil. 3:10)

Notice that he mentions "the power of His resurrection" before "the fellowship of His sufferings."
This means he has experience of this power before proceeding on armed with it into whatever sufferings still await him.

He says he died DAILY.
I protest by the boasting in you, brothers, which I have in Christ Jesus our Lord, I die daily. (1 Cor. 15:31)

It should be normal that overcoming believers live as having DIED and having their life hidden with Christ in God.
Set your mind on the things which are above, not on the things which are on the earth.
For you died, and your life is hidden with Christ in God. (Col. 3:2,3)

Now I said that should be normal not that it is typical.
The point is that the process of resurrection within believers may not involve physical expiring.

The process of resurrection may be transformation and transfiguration at rapture by-passing physical death
with some of the universal church.

When Jesus said that when He comes "will He find faith on the earth?", this was speaking of the land of Israel in particular - not the entire globe. The term "tes ges" (the earth) is more often than not in scripture referring specifically to the land of Israel in opposition to the pagan nations of the Gentile world, which often were described as the "sea".

I can see Israel as represented by the land and the Gentile world represented by the sea in some parables or passages.
And my Recovery Version does translate Revelation 1:7 - Behold, He comes with the clouds, and every eye will see Him, even those who pierced Him; and all the tribes of the LAND will mourn over Him. Yes, amen. (my emphasis) The note says it is a direct reference to
Zechariah 12:10. There the tribes of Israel weeping over the Messiah as an only Son.

I take though Luke 18:8 not to be so restrictive. - I tell you that He will carry out their avenging quickly. Nevertheless, when the Son of Man comes, will He find faith on the earth?

The immediately preceding parable of the slow to heed unrighteous judge is about all believers praying and not losing heart.
And He told them a parable to the end that they ought always to pray and not lose heart, (Luke 18:1)
And will not God by all means carry out the avenging of His chosen ones, who cry to Him day and night, though He is long-suffering over them? (v.7)

Do we really want to restrict this teaching to just Israel?
Thoughout centuries and even today believers cry out to God against adversity.
It seems many times that like the unrighteous judge God simply allows them to continue in persecution.
His quickly is not always man's quickly. He cannot but one day vindicate.

 

[oikonomia]

But the progress of the kingdom of God was also prophesied to surge among the Gentile nations of the world,

That would go along with Jesus asking that when He comes would He find faith on the earth.
I mean he sent the His disciples into all the earth with the gospel.

which has proven to be true. Just like leaven, the progress of the kingdom of God in this world's nations is steadily increasing under the radar in its evangelistic coverage of the world's people groups. This increase of God's government and of His peace will have no end, as prophesied. The "stone" kingdom will incrementally grow until it becomes a mountain that will fill the whole earth, as prophesied.

For some time I took the parable of the woman hiding leaven in three measures of meal positively.
Then I was persuaded that this was to be taken negatively as leaven is negative throughout most of the Bible.

And Jesus said to them, Watch and beware of the leaven of the Pharisees and Sadducees. (Matt. 16:6)

Your boasting is not good. Do you not know that a little leaven leavens the whole lump?
Purge out the old leaven that you may be a new lump, even as you are unleavened;
for our Passover, Christ, also has been sacrificed.
So then let us keep the feast, not with old leaven,
neither with the leaven of malice and evil, but with the unleavened bread of sincerity and truth. (1 Cor. 5:6-8)

The parable of the woman who sneakily hid leaven in the fine flour is negative.
It represents a prophesy that the Roman Catholic Church (which includes some real Christians of course) mixing into the gospel all manner of pagan mythology and idolatry until the whole of Christiandom became affected. This is a facade of the kingdom of the heavens. This is a pure thing subtly corrupted through gradual sneaky mixture. The parable is negative.

Another parable He spoke to them: The kingdom of the heavens is like leaven, which a woman took and hid in three measures of meal until the whole was leavened. (Matt. 13:33)

This parable is paired with the preceding parable of the same negative nature. The small humble mustard seed transmutes and changes into a monsterious tree with birds (a negative symbol as in verse 19) roost in its branches.

Another parable He set before them, saying, The kingdom of the heavens is like a mustard seed, which a man took and sowed in his field,
And which is smaller than all the seeds; but when it has grown, it is greater than the herbs and becomes a tree, so that the birds of heaven come and roost in its branches. (Matt. 13:11,12)

Here we see the birds represent the evil one stealing the word of the kingdom from men's hearts.
And as he sowed, some seeds fell beside the way, and the birds came and devoured them. (v.4)
When anyone hears the word of the kingdom and does not understand, the evil one comes and snatches away that which has been sown in his heart. This is the one sown beside the way. (v.19)

These two parables, the mustard plant transmuting into a great tree and the woman hiding leaven in the meal
to completely corrupt it as parables about the development of the facade of degraded Christiandom.
From this we believers must be saved.

 

[Marilyn C]

4.The Leaven – God`s Divine Fulfillment.

`The Kingdom of Heaven is like leaven, which a woman took and hid in three measures of meal till it was leavened.` (Matt. 13: 33)

Jesus was reminding the people of Israel of God`s promise to Abraham of a son. Even though Abraham and Sarah were of old age, God was by divine intervention, going to give them a son.

The picture of Abraham receiving three angelic visitors was well known to the people of Israel. It told of their beginnings as a nation. Abraham saw the visitors and told Sarah his wife to `Quickly, make three measures of fine meal; knead it and make cakes.` (Gen. 18: 6)

That picture immediately would come to mind of God`s promise of the son and through him all the nations would be blessed. God said -

`In your seed all the nations of the earth shall be blessed…` (Gen. 22: 18)

Thus, in the time of the Kingdom rule of Heaven in the millennium, all the nations will be blessed as they learn of God`s ways coming up to Jerusalem.

`Many nations shall come and say, “Come and let us go up to the mountain of the Lord, to the house of the God of Jacob; He will teach us of His ways, and we will walk in His paths, and the word of the Lord from Jerusalem.` (Micah 4: 2)

 

[Oseas]

By faith Enoch was translated so that he should not see death; and he was not found, because God had translated him. For before his translation he obtained the testimony that he had been well pleasing to God. (Heb. 11:5)

Wonderful. Wonderful.

Revelation 12:10-12
10 And I heard a loud voice saying in heaven(heaven?Ephesians 1:3-8 combined with Philippians 3:20-21) , Now is come salvation, and strength, and the KINGDOM OF GOD(Revelation 11:15-18), and the Power of his Christ: for the accuser of our brethren is cast down, which accused them before our GOD day and night.

11 And they(they who?) overcame him by the BLOOD of the Lamb, and by the Word of their testimony(like Enoch); and they loved not their lives unto the death.

12 Therefore rejoice, ye heavens, and ye that dwell in them(Ephesians 1:3-8 combined with Luke 20:35-36). Woe to the inhabiters of the earth(Israel) and of the sea(the Gentile nations-Revelation 17:15)! for the Devil(verse 9) is come down unto you, having great wrath, because he knoweth that HE HAS BUT A SHOR TIME.

Get ready

There will be WAR agaist three unclen spirits like frogs(why frogs?) - Revelation 16:1-15

Get ready

THREE UNCLEAN SPIRITS LIKE FROGS - WHY FROGS?

THREE UNCLEAN SPIRITS LIKE FROGS - WHY FROGS? Revelation 16:v.13 to 16 1 And I saw three unclean spirits like frogs come out of the mouth of the Dragon, and out of the mouth of the Beast, and out of the mouth of the False Prophet. 14 For they are the spirits of devils, working miracles, which...

purebibleforum.com

 

[Oseas]

Hi Marilyn. I actually think that it would be *huge news* if millions of Christians went missing. Many people are by nature sentimental, and would not forget. I'm a news junkie. This is *Big News!*

So I have a problem thinking it will happen the way Pretrib Rapture films portray it. Yes, a smaller number of people could go missing without a lot of attention, particularly if the people were thought the victim of some kind of catastrophe, man-made or not.

Still, it appears that the Rapture will be more like what happened with Elijah. I agree that those who are waiting for the day will not be surprised when it happens. Elijah certainly wasn't surprised! We'll all be ready when it happens if we're living for Christ, Pretrib, Midtrib, or Postrib. Living for the Lord is what makes us ready...

1Thessalonians 4:15-17
We say unto you by the Word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep.
16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout(Acts 1:9-11), with the voice of the archangel(Daniel 12:1-3 combined with Matthew 24:15 and Revelation 11:15-18 and Revelation 12:7-12, and Daniel 2:35, and Revelation 20:1-4), and with the trump of GOD(Revelation 11:15-18) : and the dead in Christ shall rise first(When? John 11:24-25 combined with Daniel 12:1-3):

17 Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds(what clouds?the 3rd heaven, the next to be established-Luke 20:35-36 combined with John 14:1-4) TO MEET THE LORD in the air(in the 3rd heavenly place in Christ-Revelation 12:9-12): and so shall we ever be with the Lord. --->Yes, to MEET the Lord in the next heavenly place in Christ-Luke 20:35-36-but who really is going?

We all must preach ”what matters is that we are prepared” to MEET JESUS-Matthew 25:6-13, and also He meeting us according as He combined with us-John 14:1-4. Take a look. We must preach more than never to the people to wake up and to arise fast, remembering that among several things it is necessary to have lamp(indeed the Word is a lamp unto our feet, and a light unto our path-Psalm 119:105) and oil, because without oil even those which have lamp will perish, it’s impressive.
What and were is the source of oil? It was revealed to the prophet Zechariah, one of the twenty four elders, as follow: Ze. 4:1-6 and 11-14KJV

1 And the angel that talked with me came again, and waked me, as a man that is wakened out of his sleep.
2 And said unto me, What seest thou? And I said, I have looked, and behold a CANDLESTICK all of gold(Candlestick is Church), with a bowl upon the top of it(upon the top of the Church), and his seven lamps thereon(THE seven spirits of GOD), and seven pipes to the seven lamps, which are upon the top thereof:
3 And two olive trees by it(by the Church), one upon the right side of the bowl, and the other upon the left side thereof. (JESUS and the Paraclete-the Comfort-John 15:26 and 16:12-15, and also two Covenants – the Old and New Testaments).

4 So I answered and spake to the angel that talked with me, saying, What are these, my lord?
5 Then the angel that talked with me answered and said unto me, Knowest thou not what these be? And I said, No, my lord.
6 Then he answered and spake unto me, saying, This is the Word of the Lord unto Zerubbabel(the Word is GOD, GOD is Spirit), saying, Not by might, nor by power, but by my Spirit, saith the Lord of hosts.
11 Then answered I, and said unto him, What are these two olive trees upon the right side of the candlestick (RIGHT SIDE OF THE CHURCH) and upon the left side thereof?
12 And I answered again, and said unto him, What be these two olive branches(SOURCE OF THE OIL) which through the two golden pipes empty the golden oil out of themselves?
13 And he answered me and said, Knowest thou not what these be? And I said, No, my lord.
14 Then said he, These are the two anointed ones, that stand by the Lord of the whole earth. Hallelujaaaah!!!

Daniel 2:35
35 Then was the iron, the clay, the brass, the silver, and the gold, broken to pieces together, and became like the chaff of the summer threshingfloors; and the wind carried them away, that no place was found for them: and the stone that smote the image became a great mountain, and FILLED THE WHOLE EARTH.

Matthew 5:5 - My Lord JESUS said: Blessed are the meek: for they shall inherit the earth. Revelation 5:10 - 10 And hast made us unto our God kings and priests: and we shall reign on the earth.

Revelation 2:27 - 29
25 But that which ye have already hold fast till I come.

26 And he that overcometh, and keepeth my works unto the end, to him will I give power over the nations:

27 And he shall rule them with a rod of iron; as the vessels of a potter shall they be broken to shivers: even as I received of my Father.

28 And I will give him the morning star.

29 He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches.

Revelation 3:20-22

20 Behold, I stand at the door, and knock: if any man hear my voice, and open the door, I will come in to him, and will sup with him, and he with me.

21 To him that overcometh will I grant to sit with me in my throne, even as I also overcame, and am set down with my Father in his throne.

22 He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches.

Be careful and get ready

Celebration of the Lamb's marriage? ONLY AFTER THE JUDGMENT OF BABYLON

According to GOD's Word, what needs to happen first? Exactly what is written in Revelation 18: 1 to 5, i.e. the Judgment of the Great harlot, as follows: 1 And after these things I saw another angel come down from heaven, having great power; and the earth was lightened with his glory. (Note: This...

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[oikonomia]

4.The Leaven – God`s Divine Fulfillment.

The picture of Abraham receiving three angelic visitors was well known to the people of Israel. It told of their beginnings as a nation. Abraham saw the visitors and told Sarah his wife to `Quickly, make three measures of fine meal; knead it and make cakes.` (Gen. 18: 6)

That picture immediately would come to mind of God`s promise of the son and through him all the nations would be blessed. God said -

`In your seed all the nations of the earth shall be blessed…` (Gen. 22: 18)

Interesting thoughts there with that commentary.

But the woman who sneakily hides corrupting leaven in three measures of meal reminds more of evil Jezebel.
This pagan wife of king Ahab brought in idolatry and thoroughly corrupted the kingdom of Israel.

"Leaven" in the Scriptures signifies evil things (1 Cor. 5:6,8) and evil doctrines (Matt. 16:6, 11-12).

 

[oikonomia]

Wonderful. Wonderful.

It is wonderful that all things written in the Old Testament are for us to have examples.
Enoch knew what was coming. That is why he prophesied naming his son "when he dies it comes" - Methusehah.

If you were bringing up a child knowing the world he is coming into is near divine judgment, wouldn't you
walk with God too? The wise generation sees God's wrath about to be poured out on his world - and his children's world.
And he realizes he needs to mean business to live godly and walk with God.

The testimony of Enoch also is that God is willing to do something with His saints that never happened before.
All men before Enoch simply died. An exception was made for Enoch who walked with God right away from the earth.

Revelation 12:10-12
10 And I heard a loud voice saying in heaven(heaven?Ephesians 1:3-8 combined with Philippians 3:20-21) , Now is come salvation, and strength, and the KINGDOM OF GOD(Revelation 11:15-18), and the Power of his Christ: for the accuser of our brethren is cast down, which accused them before our GOD day and night.

This verse refers to the minority and remnant stronger part of the total body of God's people.
The bright woman who is his mother is the weaker vessel. The child that she gives birth to is the stronger part - man-child.

The man-child is a corporate Enoch. The man-child is a collective Enoch - a group and remnant who will
be resurrected from the dead and raptured to the third heavens before the great tribulation.
Actually the rapture of the man-child is the catalyst which CAUSES Satan to be thrown down to earth only in further limitation.

This casting down of Satan and his ange;s by the good angels who are the ministering servants of the saints (Heb. 1:14), causes the great WOE to those on earth.

And I heard a loud voice in heaven, saying, Now has come the salvation and the power and the kingdom of our God and the authority of His Christ, for the accuser of our brothers has been cast down, who accuses them before our God day and night.

And they overcame him because of the blood of the Lamb and because of the word of their testimony, and they loved not their soul-life even unto death.

Therefore be glad, O heavens and those who dwell in them. Woe to the earth and the sea because the devil has come down to you and has great rage, knowing that he has only a short time. (Rev. 12:10-12 Recovery Version)

11 And they(they who?) overcame him by the BLOOD of the Lamb, and by the Word of their testimony(like Enoch); and they loved not their lives unto the death.

12 Therefore rejoice, ye heavens, and ye that dwell in them(Ephesians 1:3-8 combined with Luke 20:35-36). Woe to the inhabiters of the earth(Israel) and of the sea(the Gentile nations-Revelation 17:15)! for the Devil(verse 9) is come down unto you, having great wrath, because he knoweth that HE HAS BUT A SHOR TIME.

Get ready

There will be WAR agaist three unclen spirits like frogs(why frogs?) - Revelation 16:1-15

I believe the frogs symbolize demons who are both of the sea and roam the land "waterless places".
They were judged to be confined to the deep. But they rebel and roam the land for human bodies to possess instead of thier
own which they lost in pre-adamic times.

So amphibians symbolize these demonic spirits. That is my present view on this sign.
The demons seeking to escape Christ fled into a herd of hogs and drove them down into the sea. (See Matt. 12:43; 8:28-32)

When the unclean spirit goes out from the man, it roams through waterless places, seeking rest, and does not find it. (Matt. 12:43)

Get ready

Amen. We all need to be found ready each day. That is ready to meet the Lord.
The people left on the earth are not just Israel. They are the saints who will miss the
pre-great tribulation rapture because of not watching.

This watching is inwardly looking to live moment by moment in the Lord Jesus.
It is not an outward watching of objective stuff going on in the sky or in the world.
It is the watching unto prayer and breathing as it were the Lord's inward presence.
And that even while laboring, or cooking, or sleeping, or handling legitimate daily responsibilities.

Most of the church on earth will be left to pass through the WOE of the three and a half year great tribulation.
Since we have no garuantee of our own rapture we should be as Enoch and walk each day with God.

 

[John Lamb]

The translation of Enoch has been mentioned a number of times. Remember, not every translation involved clothes being left behind. That won’t be evidence if you’re left behind. The spirit realms can remove vehicles from plain sight if they wanted.

 

[John Lamb]

If you're talking to me I couldn't care less about pop concepts about left clothing.
Upon studying the Scriptures on this serious prophecy I just don't CARE about those novelties - clothing, car traffic, etc,

I sit up and listen to what is written in the Scripture. Give me something from the word to consider.

The reason for the “falling away” has already been given. That‘s hard evidence showing those who are left behind know the rapture has taken place. I don‘t really care about those not having God’s protection and left to pay the bill in the great tribulation, that’s the accountability I look forward to seeing. But they’re more than welcome to the clothes I leave in my wardrobe. I might even leave a tin of pineapple in my loft for a lucky scavenger.

 

[RandyPNW]

Yes, to MEET the Lord in the next heavenly place in Christ-Luke 20:35-36-but who really is going?

We all must preach ”what matters is that we are prepared” to MEET JESUS-Matthew 25:6-13, and also He meeting us according as He combined with us-John 14:1-4. Take a look. We must preach more than never to the people to wake up and to arise fast, remembering that among several things it is necessary to have lamp(indeed the Word is a lamp unto our feet, and a light unto our path-Psalm 119:105) and oil, because without oil even those which have lamp will perish, it’s impressive.
What and were is the source of oil? It was revealed to the prophet Zechariah, one of the twenty four elders, as follow: Ze. 4:1-6 and 11-14KJV

Zechariah was speaking of the work of God that was to succeed in rebuilding the temple of the Lord (Zerubbabel and Joshua the priest after 536 BC). The work was led by a couple of anointed figures who in the example of "candlesticks" indicated they had God's holy fire burning in them. They had *fuel!*

So our work will be judged at Christ's Coming by whether we are "anointed" in our work, by whether God's fire is in it. And that is determined by our adherence to the word of God speaking into our lives, showing us what is important and what is not.

That's my take on it. The history of the rebuilding of the temple and Jerusalem is a major lesson in the history of Israel. It took place in a time when the world was controlled by pagans. God's word cannot be stopped. We just have to walk in the word God gives us.