A simple fix for the Transgender issue.

[jacknife]

One is psychology, one is genetics. In fact, the idea of one's own gender could be considered a philosophical issue - but that is assuming the human knows what s/he is talking about in the first place. If there is no foundation to determine left from right, then you will always be lost.

You can choose to say that gender and genetics are not related if you choose to see gender as a philosophical issue. But, to say there is no evidence to show gender is related to genetics is disingenuous. But, as long as we are talking about gender as a thought-form, then you are free to imagine any vessel as any gender - because it your personal philosophy on gender.







Gender identity and gender are fundamentally different. There are plenty of biological benchmarks that define gender for us; what one perceives gender to be is an issue of philosophy and psychology.



Gender identity is a philosophy and psychology. I am not talking about gender identity. There are biological benchmarks for gender. Gender identity is in the eye of the beholder, but gender is biological.





There is a spiritual aspect that you may be ignorant of since you are an atheist.

However, corporate transhumanism is big business now, and will be in the future. If people can be convinced that their humanity is a fluid matter of philosophy, there won't be a bar on humans changing their physiology and genetics to be made in their image. That is fine if that is what you choose, but the culture that goes into getting people to believe this is what is happening is what is profitable - because it will make money.

The money for the surgeries for people to change their physiology to meet their mental expectations of who they are does not go to charity. The drug companies that make medicine for the endocrine system do not give their money to charity.

Your mind is being changed not by your own doing, but by a series of paradigms that rely on social, psychological and economic pressure for vindication. There is very little grant money to provide research between the chemical and environmental affects on what we perceive as gender identity.

Of course, this likely sounds like foolishness to you, so I am not expecting you to agree - nor do I think you need to. I am saying this because I cannot possibly convince you of anything since you are an adult, so my motivation now and in the future is not to convince you of anything.

My secound favorite thing is that bad corporations are getting rich off...trans surgeries? Instead of things like war, gas, online shopping, opioids, fast food, etc .Literally anything that would make you more money really the list is extensive.

 

[Kaon]

My favorite part about this response is a hint of a spiritual aspect that's not further touched upon. And the idea of what constitutes humanity becoming more of a philosophical concept wouldn't be amazing.

It is worth mentioning, but not debating when the playing field is not even in the same state. Half the time would be spent arguing a case for the spiritual world, the other half would be wasted on debating the details.

Everything that is germane to the topic can be understood on a basic level without the spiritual information.

As for the humanity becoming a philosophical concept - that, of course depends on whose philosophy is the archetype. If you are more technology than biological human, you are no longer human, but a philosophical concept of humanity made in the image of someone else. That is fine if you see humans as philosophical constructs.

But, there is specificity in biological humans that is necessarily not philosophical. The juxtaposition between human physiology and human physiology made in the image of a concept or psychology is so incredibly dangerous.

 

[Kaon]

My secound favorite thing is that bad corporations are getting rich off...trans surgeries? Instead of things like war, gas, online shopping, opioids, fast food, etc .Literally anything that would make you more money really the list is extensive.

They are getting rich off of ignorance, and personal need to fit in somewhere. The cosmetic industry has been exploiting the insecurities of women for decades; people still buy. Yes, humans make profit off of people's confusion, longing to be loved, longing to fit in, and their need to create a life in their image.

But, this shouldn't be new; profit has always been made from human ignorance, insecurity, social, spiritual and economic poverty. It is big business we the consumer buy into.

Cheers.

 

[jacknife]

It is worth mentioning, but not debating when the playing field is not even in the same state. Half the time would be spent arguing a case for the spiritual world, the other half would be wasted on debating the details.

Everything that is germane to the topic can be understood on a basic level without the spiritual information.

As for the humanity becoming a philosophical concept - that, of course depends on whose philosophy is the archetype. If you are more technology than biological human, you are no longer human, but a philosophical concept of humanity made in the image of someone else. That is fine if you see humans as philosophical constructs.

But, there is specificity in biological humans that is necessarily not philosophical. The juxtaposition between human physiology and human physiology made in the image of a concept or psychology is so incredibly dangerous.

I disagree you could remove most of the human body and replace it with advance tech and still call it human. Humans are basically a brain hooked up to the human body anyway.

 

[jacknife]

They are getting rich off of ignorance, and personal need to fit in somewhere. The cosmetic industry has been exploiting the insecurities of women for decades; people still buy. Yes, humans make profit off of people's confusion, longing to be loved, longing to fit in, and their need to create a life in their image.

But, this shouldn't be new; profit has always been made from human ignorance, insecurity, social, spiritual and economic poverty. It is big business we the consumer buy into.

Cheers.

Beauty products also target literally all women and then some. You arnt going to be raking in a ton of money targeting trans people alone. Not only that but of all the things you could consider evil to make money off of. Products sold for trans individuals and thier surgeries seems like a very odd grevience.

 

[Kylie]

One is psychology, one is genetics. In fact, the idea of one's own gender could be considered a philosophical issue - but that is assuming the human knows what s/he is talking about in the first place. If there is no foundation to determine left from right, then you will always be lost.

You can choose to say that gender and genetics are not related if you choose to see gender as a philosophical issue. But, to say there is no evidence to show gender is related to genetics is disingenuous. But, as long as we are talking about gender as a thought-form, then you are free to imagine any vessel as any gender - because it your personal philosophy on gender.

You misunderstand me.

I said that a person's sense of their gender is not related to their pattern of X and/or Y chromosomes. There are XY people who are biologically female (it's called Swyer syndrome), and XX people who are biologically men (called De la Chapelle syndrome), despite them having the wrong chromosomes for those biological sexes. In both of these cases, they are raised as their apparent gender and identify as their apparent gender.

So gender identity is definitely NOT tied to a person's chromosomes.

However, I never said there was no genetic component to gender identity. It's possible that the genes that determine gender identity are related to, but not the same, as the ones that determine the form of the genitalia. So if there is an imbalance, it's possible that the genitalia can be formed of one gender while the gender identity of that person doesn't match it.

Gender identity and gender are fundamentally different. There are plenty of biological benchmarks that define gender for us; what one perceives gender to be is an issue of philosophy and psychology.

Gender identity is a philosophy and psychology. I am not talking about gender identity. There are biological benchmarks for gender. Gender identity is in the eye of the beholder, but gender is biological.

While we seem to agree on the basics here (although I'd say what you refer to as "gender" would be better called biological sex), I don't agree that a person's gender identity is a psychological thing, at least not entirely. There have been cases where a person born biologically male has lost their penis at a young age due to a botched circumcision, and they were given an operation to remove their genitals and they were raised as a girl (see David Peter Reimer). He was seen by a psychologist named John Money, who believed that a person's gender identity was something they were taught to have, and that without such teaching a person would be neutral in terms of their own gender. However, David was not helped by this and began living as a male as a teenager. Because of this, he suffered suicidal depression by the age of 13.

Also, if a person's gender identity was really nothing more than a state of mind, we shouldn't expect to see any trans people at all - after all, if your position was correct, why would a child raised being told they are a boy suddenly start insisting they are a girl?

There is a spiritual aspect that you may be ignorant of since you are an atheist.

However, corporate transhumanism is big business now, and will be in the future. If people can be convinced that their humanity is a fluid matter of philosophy, there won't be a bar on humans changing their physiology and genetics to be made in their image. That is fine if that is what you choose, but the culture that goes into getting people to believe this is what is happening is what is profitable - because it will make money.

The money for the surgeries for people to change their physiology to meet their mental expectations of who they are does not go to charity. The drug companies that make medicine for the endocrine system do not give their money to charity.

Your mind is being changed not by your own doing, but by a series of paradigms that rely on social, psychological and economic pressure for vindication. There is very little grant money to provide research between the chemical and environmental affects on what we perceive as gender identity.

Of course, this likely sounds like foolishness to you, so I am not expecting you to agree - nor do I think you need to. I am saying this because I cannot possibly convince you of anything since you are an adult, so my motivation now and in the future is not to convince you of anything.

So you think that trans people are made to think they are trans by the companies that offer the procedures to change their bodies?

Are you for real here? Are you a conspiracy theorist? Because that's some pretty crazy stuff. You really think that some guy who worked for a medical company went to a meeting one day and said, "Hey, if we can convince some guys with penises that they should have vaginas instead, then we can make a lot of money by selling the procedure for them to get a vagina!"

REALLY?

Even if I was to buy that for a second, how do you explain the fact that trans people were recognised not only by non-western cultures long before they had contact with western culture, but there's evidence that trans people were recognised a few thousand years ago? Do you think bronze age cultures were convincing some people that they were trans in an effort to exploit them?

 

[Kaon]

I disagree you could remove most of the human body and replace it with advance tech and still call it human. Humans are basically a brain hooked up to the human body anyway.

Ok.

 

[Kaon]

Beauty products also target literally all women and then some. You arnt going to be raking in a ton of money targeting trans people alone. Not only that but of all the things you could consider evil to make money off of. Products sold for trans individuals and thier surgeries seems like a very odd grevience.

I didn't say money would be made selling trans surgeries, I said that these companies exploit people's insecurities - which definitely includes someone who doesn't feel like their biological gender matches the psychological gender.

You could be a cis male that wants breast, or a trans female that wants a womb transplant. There will always be someone to indulge and exploit our insecurities, and feeding into it by championing a manufactured paradigm only makes us more empty (in pocket and otherwise) while others profit.

 

[Kaon]

You misunderstand me.

I said that a person's sense of their gender is not related to their pattern of X and/or Y chromosomes. There are XY people who are biologically female (it's called Swyer syndrome), and XX people who are biologically men (called De la Chapelle syndrome), despite them having the wrong chromosomes for those biological sexes. In both of these cases, they are raised as their apparent gender and identify as their apparent gender.

So gender identity is definitely NOT tied to a person's chromosomes.

However, I never said there was no genetic component to gender identity. It's possible that the genes that determine gender identity are related to, but not the same, as the ones that determine the form of the genitalia. So if there is an imbalance, it's possible that the genitalia can be formed of one gender while the gender identity of that person doesn't match it.



While we seem to agree on the basics here (although I'd say what you refer to as "gender" would be better called biological sex), I don't agree that a person's gender identity is a psychological thing, at least not entirely. There have been cases where a person born biologically male has lost their penis at a young age due to a botched circumcision, and they were given an operation to remove their genitals and they were raised as a girl (see David Peter Reimer). He was seen by a psychologist named John Money, who believed that a person's gender identity was something they were taught to have, and that without such teaching a person would be neutral in terms of their own gender. However, David was not helped by this and began living as a male as a teenager. Because of this, he suffered suicidal depression by the age of 13.

Also, if a person's gender identity was really nothing more than a state of mind, we shouldn't expect to see any trans people at all - after all, if your position was correct, why would a child raised being told they are a boy suddenly start insisting they are a girl?



So you think that trans people are made to think they are trans by the companies that offer the procedures to change their bodies?

Are you for real here? Are you a conspiracy theorist? Because that's some pretty crazy stuff. You really think that some guy who worked for a medical company went to a meeting one day and said, "Hey, if we can convince some guys with penises that they should have vaginas instead, then we can make a lot of money by selling the procedure for them to get a vagina!"

REALLY?

Even if I was to buy that for a second, how do you explain the fact that trans people were recognised not only by non-western cultures long before they had contact with western culture, but there's evidence that trans people were recognised a few thousand years ago? Do you think bronze age cultures were convincing some people that they were trans in an effort to exploit them?

We are splitting already split hairs by distinguishing between gender and biological sex.

Any thought form separate from biological gender is a psychology and/or philosophy. So, when people then change their physiology based on their idea of gender, especially pre-pubescent humans, it can be a serious problem. Sometimes, people seriously regret makin a semi-permanent change to their bodies based on a psychological position.

We won't realize the problem until we forget what it means to be uniquely human - biologically and philosophically. We are being played for a purpose, and this isn't The first time this type of thing has happened.

 

[Kaon]

So you think that trans people are made to think they are trans by the companies that offer the procedures to change their bodies?

Are you for real here? Are you a conspiracy theorist? Because that's some pretty crazy stuff. You really think that some guy who worked for a medical company went to a meeting one day and said, "Hey, if we can convince some guys with penises that they should have vaginas instead, then we can make a lot of money by selling the procedure for them to get a vagina!"

REALLY?

Craziness is a subjective thoughtform, usually conjured up by people who herald logic and reason. Because you herald logic and reason, you are surprised by my seemingly illogical and unreasonable statements - because your heralded systems handicap your thinking (just like it does all of us).

Compartmentalization does not require everyone in the pyramid to understand what is going on at the top - that is why the top is illuminated, and there are thousands of unnecessary levels of grunt work and mid-management to keep each section stable. Human compartmentalization works on social and economic pressure. So, it isn't the short-sighted way of one diabolical person, we are all complicit in a "conspiracy" if we adhere to the social paradigms that make us the enforcers of our "level". Remember, conspiracy is an actual crime.

For example, a murder doesn't have to be hidden, all you need is a lot of gullible people whose mind can be opened to suggestions (in general, or with pressure). Get those people to be the psychological warriors on the front line to dismiss and scoff at any notion of murder - and get them to think it is their idea to do so, that their educated mind is the one choosing to dismiss the notion(s). Then, after "logic and reason" find that level unqualified, prepare another level of distraction and disinformation with other sophisticated minds that will preserve and protect the narrative.

This shouldn't be surprising stuff; humans exploit humans. Humans kill humans; having a lab coat on, or letters behind your name doesn't make you more ethical - but that is the psychology people have, which is why all it takes is a lab coat to convince people to change their entire philosophy on life.

Even if I was to buy that for a second, how do you explain the fact that trans people were recognised not only by non-western cultures long before they had contact with western culture, but there's evidence that trans people were recognised a few thousand years ago? Do you think bronze age cultures were convincing some people that they were trans in an effort to exploit them?

I don't really care to, because I am not trying to convince you of anything.

You are talking about two-spirits? Most every culture has their anthropological totems and roles. These people weren't transgender, because that requires a procedure. They were two-spirit, which meant that their mind was not necessarily the same as their genetics, or it was both. This was a philosophy or religious application - it wasn't biology. Moreover, the person was not "transgender" just because s/he felt like the opposite gender.

In fact, often two-spirit people were simply men (or women) who performed female (or male) roles - what people call a delicate, sensitive, well-groomed man today, not necessarily into sports or physical work. In other words, the two-spirit man or woman may not even have homosexual attractions that would suggest their entire gender is off.

But, this brings up another point about the spiritual influence - which I will mention now as a research tool (not argumentative tool): why would someone feel their body and mind don't match up? How does a person actually know what their body and mind are supposed to be? Who tells these children that they should respond to their feelings with such drastic action as changing one's biological sex? If you find out who is playing us - it will hurt when you realize how much bull you indulged in - but it will be much better overall, and you won't be tossed around every decade by the newest manufactured paradigm.

There are people who used the "f-word" in 2009 that are now picketing for trans rights not because they truly believe it is wrong in their hearts to use that language toward another human, but because it is socially unacceptable. People are easily manipulated because we don't know how to deal with our own shortcomings and insecurities - yet we believe we are (one of the) smartest entities in Creation. You should watch out for those types of snakes, because they may be the very ones selling the paradigm itself.

 

[Strathos]

I disagree you could remove most of the human body and replace it with advance tech and still call it human. Humans are basically a brain hooked up to the human body anyway.

That would be called a cyborg.

 

[FireDragon76]

I disagree you could remove most of the human body and replace it with advance tech and still call it human. Humans are basically a brain hooked up to the human body anyway.

This owes more to Cartesian dualism than to a realistic appraisal of the human person, I believe. Humans are more than intellects that just happen to have bodies.

 

[Kylie]

We are splitting already split hairs by distinguishing between gender and biological sex.

Any thought form separate from biological gender is a psychology and/or philosophy. So, when people then change their physiology based on their idea of gender, especially pre-pubescent humans, it can be a serious problem. Sometimes, people seriously regret makin a semi-permanent change to their bodies based on a psychological position.

We won't realize the problem until we forget what it means to be uniquely human - biologically and philosophically. We are being played for a purpose, and this isn't The first time this type of thing has happened.

The fact that there are plenty of people who identify as a gender other than that which they were assigned at birth seems to indicate that this is a real thing.

And you claim it can be harmful to let people change their bodies to fit their identified gender. However, we know for a fact that people who have come out as trans and yet were forced to live as their assigned gender is harmful - plenty of them have taken their own lives. I find it interesting that you are happy to ignore this. It's almost as though you are biased by your own anti-trans viewpoint.

 

[Kylie]

Craziness is a subjective thoughtform, usually conjured up by people who herald logic and reason. Because you herald logic and reason, you are surprised by my seemingly illogical and unreasonable statements - because your heralded systems handicap your thinking (just like it does all of us).

Compartmentalization does not require everyone in the pyramid to understand what is going on at the top - that is why the top is illuminated, and there are thousands of unnecessary levels of grunt work and mid-management to keep each section stable. Human compartmentalization works on social and economic pressure. So, it isn't the short-sighted way of one diabolical person, we are all complicit in a "conspiracy" if we adhere to the social paradigms that make us the enforcers of our "level". Remember, conspiracy theory is an actual crime.

For example, a murder doesn't have to be hidden, all you need is a lot of gullible people whose mind can be opened to suggestions (in general, or with pressure). Get those people to be the psychological warriors on the front line to dismiss and scoff at any notion of murder - and get them to think it is their idea to do so, that their educated mind is the one choosing to dismiss the notion(s). Then, after "logic and reason" find that level unqualified, prepare another level of distraction and disinformation with other sophisticated minds that will preserve and protect the narrative.

This shouldn't be surprising stuff; humans exploit humans. Humans kill humans; having a lab coat on, or letters behind your name doesn't make you more ethical - but that is the psychology people have, which is why all it takes is a lab coat to convince people to change their entire philosophy on life.

And with all that, you have not produced a single shred of evidence to support your claim that trans people are convinced they are trans by medical companies who want to sell treatments they invented for trans people.

I don't really care to, because I am not trying to convince you of anything.

You are talking about two-spirits? Most every culture has their anthropological totems and roles. These people weren't transgender, because that requires a procedure. They were two-spirit, which meant that their mind was not necessarily the same as their genetics, or it was both. This was a philosophy or religious application - it wasn't biology. Moreover, the person was not "transgender" just because s/he felt like the opposite gender.

Are you actually saying that a person isn't actually trans unless they have had some treatment to make their body match their identity? That by itself proves beyond any doubt that you have no idea at all what you are talking about when it comes to trans issues.

In fact, often two-spirit people were simply men (or women) who performed female (or male) roles - what people call a delicate, sensitive, well-groomed man today, not necessarily into sports or physical work. In other words, the two-spirit man or woman may not even have homosexual attractions that would suggest their entire gender is off.

Okay, you know that being gay doesn't mean that a person's gender is off.

And a trans woman can be a lesbian.

And there's a whole lot more trans inclusive ideas in other cultures than just the two spirits idea.

But, this brings up another point about the spiritual influence - which I will mention now as a research tool (not argumentative tool): why would someone feel their body and mind don't match up? How does a person actually know what their body and mind are supposed to be? Who tells these children that they should respond to their feelings with such drastic action as changing one's biological sex? If you find out who is playing us - it will hurt when you realize how much bull you indulged in - but it will be much better overall, and you won't be tossed around every decade by the newest manufactured paradigm.

How does a person know? Well, what gender do you identify as? And how do you know that's what's right for you?

There are people who used the "f-word" in 2009 that are now picketing for trans rights not because they truly believe it is wrong in their hearts to use that language toward another human, but because it is socially unacceptable. People are easily manipulated because we don't know how to deal with our own shortcomings and insecurities - yet we believe we are (one of the) smartest entities in Creation. You should watch out for those types of snakes, because they may be the very ones selling the paradigm itself.

So a person who once had damaging ideas, recognised that the ideas were damaging, changed their position and no supports something that they were once against is a snake, is that what you are saying?

 

[Kaon]

The fact that there are plenty of people who identify as a gender other than that which they were assigned at birth seems to indicate that this is a real thing.

It is a spiritual issue, primarily, and chemical/environmental secondarily. As I said, there is very little grant money that will go to researching the connections of environmental pollution to much of anything - least of all gender identity disorder, or alternative attraction in general.

The solution we have is not the actual solution - but there will always be people to tell you what you're feeling is right so they exploit your insecurity.

And you claim it can be harmful to let people change their bodies to fit their identified gender. However, we know for a fact that people who have come out as trans and yet were forced to live as their assigned gender is harmful - plenty of them have taken their own lives. I find it interesting that you are happy to ignore this. It's almost as though you are biased by your own anti-trans viewpoint.

I don't ignore it - like I said, it is a massive spiritual issue first. And, I am not anti-trans; I personally don't care, but I would like people to be smarter about their lives. It is getting boring to see people be exploited on almost every facet, and then fight the people that try to say something about it.

Do you ignore the people that later realize they likely should not have gone through with their transition?

Transgender sex change regret: Transitioning won't heal real issues

Transgender women want male genitalia back after surgery

Hundreds of youths who had gender surgery wish they hadn't, says trans rights champion | Daily Mail Online


And, there is an entire website devoted to people who regret their physical transition:

https://sexchangeregret.com/


Since people don't believe in the spirit world, it is tantamount to a psychological issue. It doesn't mean trans people (or anyone with psychological hangups/disorders/bad days/etc) are possessed by demons. It means they are being oppressed. Do you think a benevolent god would make someone feel confused about their identity? Those feelings come from somewhere else.

 

[Kaon]

And with all that, you have not produced a single shred of evidence to support your claim that trans people are convinced they are trans by medical companies who want to sell treatments they invented for trans people.

I never said this; I said those companies exploit their insecurities. That was my premise and insinuation from the beginning - that trans minded people are being used and exploited on all facets (socially, financially, medically, etc.) Their insecurities are being exploited.

Are you actually saying that a person isn't actually trans unless they have had some treatment to make their body match their identity? That by itself proves beyond any doubt that you have no idea at all what you are talking about when it comes to trans issues.

I did not say that. I specifically spoke about two-spirited people - the people you brought up when talking about "Western" people who were "transgender" before it was a cultural norm.

Okay, you know that being gay doesn't mean that a person's gender is off.

And a trans woman can be a lesbian.

And there's a whole lot more trans inclusive ideas in other cultures than just the two spirits idea.

I did not say that. I specifically spoke about two-spirited people - the people you brought up when talking about "Western" people who were "transgender" before it was a cultural norm.

How does a person know? Well, what gender do you identify as? And how do you know that's what's right for you?

Because I am aware of my spiritual identity - which isn't a dig, or meant to come off as pretentious. Having a spiritual foundation allows you to know when you are deviating from what is right. So, even if you do get the feeling you are not quite what you are, if you are spiritually cognizant you can (ideally) remedy yourself.

I worship the Most High God, so it is easy to know what is expected of me. Living up to the expectation is not necessarily easy, but it is comforting to have a Standard.

So a person who once had damaging ideas, recognised that the ideas were damaging, changed their position and no supports something that they were once against is a snake, is that what you are saying?

No, I am saying hypocrites and social interlopers are exploiting this current LBGTQ paradigm, learning how to hide their true feelings, and feigning support for profit - be it economic, social, or otherwise. They are exploiting the insecurities of other humans, instead of addressing the issues.

 

[Kylie]

It is a spiritual issue, primarily, and chemical/environmental secondarily. As I said, there is very little grant money that will go to researching the connections of environmental pollution to much of anything - least of all gender identity disorder, or alternative attraction in general.

A spiritual issue? There are lots of people who don't share your view of spirituality. And what if their spiritual views tell them that treatment to make their bodies match their identity is the best thing? Why should your ideas of spirituality override their views?

And an environmental problem? Does it pollute the rivers or something? Your arguments are very weak and ill defined.

The solution we have is not the actual solution - but there will always be people to tell you what you're feeling is right so they exploit your insecurity.

So? Do you really think this kind of "Those who agree with you are only doing so to take advantage of you" mentality is what's going on here? Do you think anyone at all who agrees with you is doing so because they want to take advantage of you? If I agreed with you, would you start thinking I was trying to manipulate you?

I don't ignore it - like I said, it is a massive spiritual issue first. And, I am not anti-trans; I personally don't care, but I would like people to be smarter about their lives. It is getting boring to see people be exploited on almost every facet, and then fight the people that try to say something about it.

No, it's a personal issue first and foremost, and it should be dealt with by the person going through it.

Do you ignore the people that later realize they likely should not have gone through with their transition?

So? Have I ever said that transitioning is the right move for EVERYONE? Of course not. Whether or not a person transitions should be a choice they make, not a choice that is made (or denied) for them.

Transgender sex change regret: Transitioning won't heal real issues

So a person who was dressed as the opposite gender by someone else, who hadn't expressed that they were born in the wrong body had problems. Well gee! Could that be because they were forced to be a girl when they were born with a penis? Did the author, as a child, express any sentiments to say they had been born in the wrong body? Not according to the article you linked! And as for most people who want to live as the opposite sex having other psychological issues, such as depression or anxiety, I'm not surprised! Most of them face discrimination about their identity! The problems are often caused by people treating them bad when they are honest about who they are, yet the article dishonestly suggests that their emotional problems cause them to think that they are trans.

Transgender women want male genitalia back after surgery

I find it very VERY interesting that the article never mentions what percentage of people who undergo GCS experience regret. Could it be that it's because 80% of trans women are happy with having the surgery, and 96% of trans men are happy? SOURCE Once again, you present a source that does not give a clear depiction of what it is talking about in an effort to present a misleading view.

Hundreds of youths who had gender surgery wish they hadn't, says trans rights champion | Daily Mail Online

And yet this person cites no actual numbers. They don't say "I've seen this many people regret it out of that many people who had the surgery." So that's suspect right there.

Also, I find it interesting that they say that they see mostly in their 20s, and often autistic, and yet she has seen 30 people from Newcastle, a city that has about 310,000 people. I mean, in a city of that size, autistic trans people in their 20s is a pretty narrow demographic. I'm surprised there are that many. I mean, according to the data on THIS page, about 14% of the entire Newcastle population is in their 20s. With a population of about 310,000, that means there are about 44,000 people in their twenties in Newcastle. Now, exact figures of the percentage of people in Newcastle who are trans is difficult to come by, since the government has not included this information as part of their census program, but we can make an educated guess. The population of the entire UK is about 66.5 million. And the estimates for the number of trans people in the UK is estimated between 200,000 and 500,000. Even assuming a high figure of 500,000 trans people in the UK, that's less than 1% of the population. So, let's say that 1% of the population is trans (which fits in fairly well with other studies - for instance a study in the US suggests that about 0.6% of the population is trans). So we can figure that out of the 44,000 people in their twenties in Newcastle, 1% of them are trans. That makes roughly 440 trans people in newcastle. Now, when it comes to how many people are on the autism spectrum, studies have shown that about 1.1% of people in the UK are autistic. If we apply that to the trans people in their 20s in Newcastle, that comes out to about 4 or 5 people who would be Newcastle residents in their twenties who are both autistic and trans. And yet Charlie Evans, according to the article, has found about 30 trans people in their twenties in Newcastle, and most of them are autistic. How can this be? Is NEwcastle a magnet for trans, autistic people in their twenties? And Ms Evans has said that many of these people have had full gender reassignment surgeries. That also strikes me as odd, since trans people in England often face waits for treatment that have been described as "soul destroying." And yet, in Newcastle, there appears to be a concentration of autistic trans folks in their twenties almost ten times higher than average who have been able to get access to treatment much more easily than in the rest of the country!

Yeah, that doesn't seem right to me.

And, there is an entire website devoted to people who regret their physical transition:

https://sexchangeregret.com/

So? I'm sure you could find plenty of people who have been injured by seat belts, but that doesn't mean seatbelts are a bad thing. And even if we accept the website's claim that "up to 20% have regrets about their sex change," that still leaves 80% of people who are happy with having a sex change. The fact that some number of people have regrets about a thing does not mean the thing itself is worthless or should be abandoned, particularly when the people with regrets are in the minority.

(I also find it curious that the site says researchers say that sex change procedures are not effective, despite giving no source at all for this claim and also saying that only 20% of people find it ineffective.)

Since people don't believe in the spirit world, it is tantamount to a psychological issue.

No, it doesn't. It just means that people don't have the same opinion about spirituality that you do. It's arrogant to say that since they think different, they are wrong.

It doesn't mean trans people (or anyone with psychological hangups/disorders/bad days/etc) are possessed by demons. It means they are being oppressed. Do you think a benevolent god would make someone feel confused about their identity? Those feelings come from somewhere else.

And there you go again, pushing your view of God into a situation involving people who may not share your view of God. If you can't respect that other people have different views about religion and spirituality, why should anyone think you are being respectful towards trans people?

 

[Kylie]

I never said this; I said those companies exploit their insecurities. That was my premise and insinuation from the beginning - that trans minded people are being used and exploited on all facets (socially, financially, medically, etc.) Their insecurities are being exploited.

And you were suggesting that we shouldn't permit gender transitioning because the companies that make such treatments available are exploiting them. Does that really strike you as a sensible argument?

I did not say that. I specifically spoke about two-spirited people - the people you brought up when talking about "Western" people who were "transgender" before it was a cultural norm.

You said, "These people weren't transgender, because that requires a procedure."

Pretty clearly saying that a person isn't trans until they have some procedure on themselves, like a sex change or hormone therapy.

I did not say that. I specifically spoke about two-spirited people - the people you brought up when talking about "Western" people who were "transgender" before it was a cultural norm.

You need to read my posts better. I specifically was talking about NON-western cultures. There have been many cultures who recognise trans people in many ways apart from the "two-spirits" idea.

Because I am aware of my spiritual identity - which isn't a dig, or meant to come off as pretentious. Having a spiritual foundation allows you to know when you are deviating from what is right. So, even if you do get the feeling you are not quite what you are, if you are spiritually cognizant you can (ideally) remedy yourself.

I worship the Most High God, so it is easy to know what is expected of me. Living up to the expectation is not necessarily easy, but it is comforting to have a Standard.

And since there are people who don't hold to the same idea, they're just wrong, is that it?

No, I am saying hypocrites and social interlopers are exploiting this current LBGTQ paradigm, learning how to hide their true feelings, and feigning support for profit - be it economic, social, or otherwise. They are exploiting the insecurities of other humans, instead of addressing the issues.

Well, let's ban seatbelts and other car safety systems, since the manufacturers of those systems are doing it because they want to sell more cars and because they are being forced to do so by laws. They don't actually have any interest in saving people's lives!

See how ridiculous that argument is?

 

[Kaon]

And you were suggesting that we shouldn't permit gender transitioning because the companies that make such treatments available are exploiting them. Does that really strike you as a sensible argument?



You said, "These people weren't transgender, because that requires a procedure."

Pretty clearly saying that a person isn't trans until they have some procedure on themselves, like a sex change or hormone therapy.



You need to read my posts better. I specifically was talking about NON-western cultures. There have been many cultures who recognise trans people in many ways apart from the "two-spirits" idea.



And since there are people who don't hold to the same idea, they're just wrong, is that it?



Well, let's ban seatbelts and other car safety systems, since the manufacturers of those systems are doing it because they want to sell more cars and because they are being forced to do so by laws. They don't actually have any interest in saving people's lives!

See how ridiculous that argument is?

Ok.

 

[Ken-1122]

You can't fix a problem by trying to hide it.

And a person's sense of gender identity does not live in their genitals. I know of plenty women who have had hysterectomies and no longer have a uterus or ovaries who still identify as women.

It doesn't live in your genitals, it lives in your biology; regardless of what goes on in your head.