A question about Job.

[brinny]

The LORD (and Job) indicate this move against him (which come by permission granted to Satan to do so) is "without cause"

Job 2:3 And the LORD said unto Satan, Hast thou considered my servant Job, that there is none like him in the earth, a perfect and an upright man, one that feareth God, and escheweth evil? and still he holdeth fast his integrity, although thou movedst me against him, to destroy him without cause.

Job 9:17 For he breaketh me with a tempest, and multiplieth my wounds without cause.

Thank you kindly for these verses. The key words here and to understand and grasp the entire book of Job are these words "without cause".

 

[brinny]

I think it is clear it says Job was blameless. I would think he loved his wife, and he cared enough about his children, to make sacrifices in case any of them had cursed. So, he was ready to be forgiving, if he was so caring, I would say. He also would dearly care for his wife; so perhaps he was hurt that she could be broken so . . . maybe surprised that she was so down while he who was suffering was not down. He was disappointed, then, I would say, but did want her, even so.

And God had him pray for the friends - - because, I consider, God knew Job was about forgiving, and so God used him for this. Forgiveness was his way; so the time of opportunity to forgive did come. This is how things work with God > if He knows we really desire what is good, He makes a way.

We see how Jesus on the cross prayed, "Father, forgive them, for they do not know what they do." (in Luke 23:34) Jesus did not allow suffering to decide how He was and what He did, and He did not let Satanic people decide if He forgave or not.

That's what mattered; like Jesus, Job did not let the horrible stuff and wrong friends and wife have the power to decide how he was and how he did things and how he saw things.

However > it looks like Job tried to justify himself . . . to defend himself. So, maybe this shows that he was blameless but not totally perfect. So, he maybe needed to be tested to expose his imperfection. After all, he does say he repents, when he sees the LORD. In comparison with the LORD . . . he was not so blameless.

Instead of us looking down on others who are wrong . . . we "might" be busier with considering how we are in comparison with Jesus!! "For the time has come for judgment to begin at the house of God; and if it begins with us first, what will be the end of those who do not obey the gospel of God?" (1 Peter 4:17)

But God had His good working, all along. So, it is wise not to look at the wrong stuff and what worldly people are doing, but always know our good God is doing such good. It is like how we humans know better than to keep track of what ants are doing

Thank you kindly for sharing your thoughts.

 

[AnticipateHisComing]

God already knew Job's heart and mind, according to what God Himself says about Job in the beginning of the book of Job ...

The Bible teaches on testing in many other places besides Job. You can take a look at my thread on it or search scriptures yourself. God does not test to know what is in our heart and minds. He already knows all. It is that WE may see what is in our hearts and minds that we are tested. Tests from God are that we may see how we are doing so that we may improve/be refined.

Psalm 66:10 For you, God, tested us; you refined us like silver.

and God reiterates it again throughout the book of Job.

Please provide a verse where God reiterates it after the first two chapters. All I see is Job declaring himself to be blameless in the next 30 chapters. What message is the Holy Spirit trying to get through there?

Was God dis-pleased with Job? Is that why these set of circumstances began?

Why does God test? Testing is not like discipline where God may bring hardship on us after we sin. Testing is God wanting to improve us. The same hardship may be used for both discipline and testing. The end goal is also the same in both situations, to make us stronger/closer to him. It is just a matter of perspective.

So the question is not whether God was displeased with anything Job did. The question is: what does God do to improve us spiritually and bring us closer to him?

James 5 speaks about learning to be patient in suffering. It references Job and his perseverance in suffering but in the same sentence mentions something that God brought about. I ask what did God finally bring about in the end of Job's ordeal? I find no comfort in the thinking that God would allow us to suffer for no benefit. That would be sadistic, but scriptures says this is actually compassion and mercy. How ironic, suffering brings grace. Isn't that Jesus?

James 5:11 As you know, we count as blessed those who have persevered. You have heard of Job’s perseverance and have seen what the Lord finally brought about. The Lord is full of compassion and mercy.

 

[brinny]

The Bible teaches on testing in many other places besides Job. You can take a look at my thread on it or search scriptures yourself. God does not test to know what is in our heart and minds. He already knows all. It is that WE may see what is in our hearts and minds that we are tested. Tests from God are that we may see how we are doing so that we may improve/be refined.

Psalm 66:10 For you, God, tested us; you refined us like silver.



Please provide a verse where God reiterates it after the first two chapters. All I see is Job declaring himself to be blameless in the next 30 chapters. What message is the Holy Spirit trying to get through there?



Why does God test? Testing is not like discipline where God may bring hardship on us after we sin. Testing is God wanting to improve us. The same hardship may be used for both discipline and testing. The end goal is also the same in both situations, to make us stronger/closer to him. It is just a matter of perspective.

So the question is not whether God was displeased with anything Job did. The question is: what does God do to improve us spiritually and bring us closer to him?

James 5 speaks about learning to be patient in suffering. It references Job and his perseverance in suffering but in the same sentence mentions something that God brought about. I ask what did God finally bring about in the end of Job's ordeal? I find no comfort in the thinking that God would allow us to suffer for no benefit. That would be sadistic, but scriptures says this is actually compassion and mercy. How ironic, suffering brings grace. Isn't that Jesus?

James 5:11 As you know, we count as blessed those who have persevered. You have heard of Job’s perseverance and have seen what the Lord finally brought about. The Lord is full of compassion and mercy.

Thank you kindly for sharing your thoughts.

 

[AnticipateHisComing]

I posted
Please provide a verse where God reiterates it after the first two chapters. All I see is Job declaring himself to be blameless in the next 30 chapters.

Thank you kindly for sharing your thoughts.

You may choose to not address my comments but can you at least support your statement "God reiterates it again throughout the book of Job." This in discussion of Job being blameless. Can you provide a scripture verse where God says this in chapters 3 through 42?

 

[brinny]

I posted
Please provide a verse where God reiterates it after the first two chapters. All I see is Job declaring himself to be blameless in the next 30 chapters.



You may choose to not address my comments but can you at least support your statement "God reiterates it again throughout the book of Job." This in discussion of Job being blameless. Can you provide a scripture verse where God says this in chapters 3 through 42?

And i thank you kindly for posting and sharing your thoughts.

 

[AnticipateHisComing]

Thank you kindly for these verses. The key words here and to understand and grasp the entire book of Job are these words "without cause".

You are correct. To suffer with cause would be punishment/rebuke. Not what the story of Job is about.

To suffer without cause is what the story of Job is about. To suffer without cause does not mean without purpose though. This is what testing is; that we may be refined/improved.

 

[brinny]

Originally Posted by brinny View Post
Thank you kindly for these verses. The key words here and to understand and grasp the entire book of Job are these words "without cause".

You are correct. To suffer with cause would be punishment/rebuke. Not what the story of Job is about.

To suffer without cause is what the story of Job is about. To suffer without cause does not mean without purpose though. This is what testing is; that we may be refined/improved.

To suffer without cause is what the story of Job is about.

In light of this, perhaps the entire scenario wasn't about Job, but about something else?

Thank you kindly.

 

[brinny]

What was Job's biggest lament in all of this?

 

[W2L]

What was Job's biggest lament in all of this?

I don't know. His friends?

 

[brinny]

I don't know. His friends?

Actually that's an excellent response.

Anything else?

 

[W2L]

Actually that's an excellent response.

Anything else?

I'm not sure, its a complicated book.

 

[brinny]

I'm not sure, its a complicated book.

Yes it is......

and Job had so many laments, it's overwhelming to even know where to begin....

 

[W2L]

Yes it is......

and Job had so many laments, it's overwhelming to even know where to begin....

Maybe someone else will share their thoughts as well. Speaking of laments, I like lamentations 3.

 

[brinny]

Maybe someone else will share their thoughts as well. Speaking of laments, I like lamentations 3.

Whoa! That could apply to Job....

Was it Jeremiah who wrote Lamentations?

 

[W2L]

Whoa! That could apply to Job....

Was it Jeremiah who wrote Lamentations?

I'm not sure. I only know that chapter three is edifying for my soul.

 

[brinny]

I'm not sure. I only know that chapter three is edifying for my soul.

It's spot on.....very similar to many of David's Psalms, and Job's own experiences....

 

[W2L]

I'm glad to suffer. It keeps me humble, and on the right path. IT a great blessing. That sounds strange I guess, but it keeps me on the right path. Like Job said, should we expect good from God and not bad as well? All things work good for those who love God, as Paul said.

 

[W2L]

It's spot on.....very similar to many of David's Psalms, and Job's own experiences....

I don't even compare myself with those men, they are better than I am, but their example is edifying and I put hope in the Lord that its he who edifies me with their example.

 

[W2L]

I have joy too, at times. The other day I was experiencing a joy that I couldn't really explain. It was something I have been searching for for a long time. I don't know what I'm doing, I just try to follow best I can. I believe that perseverance is a key, and also that sowing to the spirit is a key as well. Spiritual sowing (in my understanding anyway)includes humility and love. IF my suffering brings those things into my spirit, and allows me to sow those things, then it must be a blessing from God. Sorrow may not be easy, but if it helps me to be humble, and if humility helps me to love, and if love reaps joy. Then I am blessed. I must continually persevere though, always ready to persevere. IN perseverance I use Davids example when he says "wait on the Lord and he will strengthen you". That's perseverance in my mind anyway.

Sorry if I got off track, I guess all this gets me thinking. Just wanted to share