A question about Job.

[brinny]

....i can't imagine how Job endured how he did.....especially with God seeming to be distant......i wonder how long this continued for?

 

[bmjackson]

To whom are you replying to?

FWIW, Paul never mentions "gehenna" in any of his epistles. How come?

http://www.christianforums.com/t7464995/
Why no mention of "gehenna" in Paul's Epistles?

Matthew 23:2
saying "upon the seat of Moses are seated the Scribes and the Pharisees
33 "Serpents! produce of vipers! how may ye be fleeing from the judging of the geennhV <1067>

Revelation 14:11
And the smoke of the tormenting of Them is ascending into Ages to-Ages.......... [Ezekiel 39:12/Luke 16:24,26]

.

I did not mean that Paul said it, just saying what is general Christian doctrine.

 

[bmjackson]

Hi Brenda (i saw you posted yer name earlier...that's my name too)

Thank you for your insight regarding Job, one of the most misunderstood books, and most misunderstood men of God in the Bible.

It helped me immensely as i continue studying the book and the life of this man of God. May God bless you as you continue striving to seek the Truth in God's Word and in the lives of His servants.

You are most welcome sister namesake Thank you and you too.

 

[bmjackson]

What makes you think he is referring to you?


.

The warning came after my post. No reply to my question though. Maybe a mistake?

 

[brinny]

Thank you for sharing here in this thread...it's been edifying to me....the book of Job has been one of the most difficult books for me to read and study for many reasons. Thank you for bringing clarity to what is sooo many times misunderstood in this book, and to this man of God who is so often maligned.

 

[brinny]

It's soooooo easy to get distracted with all the nightmare that was goin' on with Job, that human nature kicks in and the victim (Job) gets blamed......cuz he MUST'a done SOMETHING to DESERVE this...Surely he did....and i'm gonna be the one to show how brilliant i am and show Job the error of his ways.....i know it's there SOMEWHERE.....that Job ain't foolin' me.....i'll find it...and look at all the accolades i'll get, cuz nobody else could find it, but I will. Cuz, hey, i came to help ol' misguided Job. Yeah, i'll set him straight.

yet, right there, in the very beginning of the book, is the answer. Shining like a beacon that was placed there by God Himself.

 

[brinny]

....and what has been unbelievable and unforgettable for me is Job's "friends"........

Most of the book of Job could be sub-titled "What NOT to say to a Victim" or "With Friends Like These, Who needs Enemies?"

Cruel Reproof Helps not the Sufferer

http://brandonware.org/2014/01/06/with-friends-like-these-who-needs-enemies/

 

[brinny]

Where to begin? In examination, it quickly becomes clear that Elihu:

1. is not Job's "friend"
2. is a liar
3. does not know God

Job: Chapter 35

job35


Job 38:2 "Who is this that darkeneth counsel by words without knowledge?"

God's first answer was in the form of a question. Remember from verse three of chapter thirty six, Elihu said, "I will fetch my knowledge from afar, and I will ascribe righteousness to the Maker. For truly my words shall not be false: He that is perfect in knowledge is with thee." Elihu was presenting himself as a spokesman for God, and I feel that God was even personally addressing Elihu here. God is asking Job; who is this man who is standing before you, claiming to have all knowledge, and knowing Me?

This should be a warning to us today that there will be many that present themselves to be speaking for God, and all the time their words are empty. We had better be careful what man or woman we study under. If they are speaking on behalf of God and His Word, there had better be documentation direct from the Word of God. Listening to teachers like Elihu is the sure way to be led astray.

So God's first answer to Job is; What are you listening to these men for? It is addressed to Job but aimed at Elihu, as well as the other three.

http://www.theseason.org/job/job38.htm

 

[brinny]

this verse alone speaks for itself....in this verse she simultaneously testifies that Job is a man of integrity, even in all of this, and she becomes a "mouthpiece" for that one that was intent on destroying Job, by whatever means necessary, and trying to cause Job to curse God.....so she is used to land a blow straight to his jugular, as she confirms "who" she is being used by, and it wasn't God. It brings to mind another, named Esau, who also cast aside his own birthright, indicating his lack of integrity. It's clear here that integrity was of no importance to Job's wife either.

.....if there would've been a gravestone made for Job right about then, this would've been chiseled on it and it would've been based on this man's life, and who he was behind closed doors and out in the public and town square. And this gravestone would've come from Job's wife's own mouth. Even in her targeting of him she could not find any fault in him.

Job's gravestone:

"Man of Integrity"

This alone, shines as a testament to "who" Job was.

Getting back to Job's wife, whose name is not mentioned once:

Job 2:9 "Then said his wife unto him, "Dost thou still retain thine integrity? curse God, and die."

This applies not only to the wife, but to any close relation that is with you during your time of trouble, and try to stir you against the Lord. Many times after great sickness or an accident happens to a person, the first one to blame God are your close relatives. They point the finger at you and right standing before God. They say; "he (she) must have done something wrong?" When Job should have had the support of his wife, she turned on him and tried to get Job to curse God and die. This is quite common today when someone has had a serious problem and lives in a state of great pain and stress, they say, "he is better off dead and out of his pain." Satan is using Job's wife to get Job to do what he could not get Job to do, "curse God and die."

job2

 

[Seeking Him]

It's soooooo easy to get distracted with all the nightmare that was goin' on with Job, that human nature kicks in and the victim (Job) gets blamed......cuz he MUST'a done SOMETHING to DESERVE this...Surely he did....and i'm gonna be the one to show how brilliant i am and show Job the error of his ways.....i know it's there SOMEWHERE.....that Job ain't foolin' me.....i'll find it...and look at all the accolades i'll get, cuz nobody else could find it, but I will. Cuz, hey, i came to help ol' misguided Job. Yeah, i'll set him straight.

yet, right there, in the very beginning of the book, is the answer. Shining like a beacon that was placed there by God Himself.

I was reading in Luke 22. Jesus said Simon, Satan has desired to sift you as wheat, but I have prayed for you that your faith will not fail and when you turn, strengthen your brothers. The cross reference scripture in my bible is Job 1:6-12. Strike every thing he has, said Satan.
The devil sifts Peter, or tries to. His faith failed not. Peter encourages us to resist the devil, he will flee and remember our brethren are also going through similar afflictions. After we have suffered, God will strengthen, confirm, and establish us.

 

[brinny]

Yes, interesting reference....."sifting" kinda describes it, doesn't it? Jesus' grace is evident here, as He "warns" Peter beforehand. We have the grace and privilege to know beforehand that we will be "sifted", persecuted, etc.

An added dynamic for Job is that he did not. He was "in the dark" about the entire scenario as Satan was "un-leashed" on him, with one blow after another.

This has been one of the reasons the study of Job has been so difficult for me and why i avoided it until more recently...

As the book closes, and Job is restored blessings, even more than he had before, with ten more children, i am compelled to delve into the details of this restoration.....simply because as it is written, the only thing that would "console" me is God's restoration of His presence. I'm thinking God must've ministered BIG TIME to His servant Job to bind up the brokenness and the woundings that all that occurred surely would have etched into his heart, mind, soul, and spirit. Having "possessions" restored to me double and new children would not "console" or "heal" me.....Job MUST HAVE had a heart-to-heart with God at some point.....there's no way i could've just moved on like "nothing happened" and be consoled by "things" or people "bringing me things"......my heart, mind, and spirit would've been shattered into a zillion pieces n' then some...and ONLY GOD can minister and heal something that utterly broken....it seems to be casually dismissed by most who preach or teach on the book of Job and on the man, Job himself.....THIS is what i MOST need to understand, THIS. THis verse comes to mind: "The Lord is nigh unto them that are of a broken heart; " ~Psalm 34:18 THIS is what i would need from Him, His near-ness, His presence, His HEALING, His drying away my tears. It is also written that God saves ALL our tears in a bottle. He would've had an ocean of tears and then some......and it is also written that HE will wipe away all tears.....

THIS is what's missing here in the finale of the book of Job. it is rather abrupt and so what if Job got all these "things"?! There HAD to be some serious HEALING going on real quick for Job......THAT is the missing piece.


What also baffles my mind is that most of the sermons/studies i've heard or read about regarding Job's catastrophe's mentions his "possessions" that he lost and then mention his children's tragic and sudden deaths as almost an "after thought"....it's like they're saying the big tragedy for Job is the loss of his possessions.....and every thing else is "secondary".....

it is also written that God invites all of us to come "reason together with Him"....now this would be perfect timing for that, BIG TIME. I don't believe it's an "abrupt" kind of "moving on" for Job at all as if he's just given all this "stuff" and that's it. There HAD to be some sort of transition or process, or sumthin'

 

[bmjackson]

brinny


I have been pondering the question you asked overnight and this is what I came up with.


4 For, behold, the day cometh, that shall burn as an oven; and all the proud, yea, and all that do wickedly, shall be stubble: and the day that cometh shall burn them up, saith the Lord of hosts, that it shall leave them neither root nor branch.

2 But unto you that fear my name shall the Sun of righteousness arise with healing in his wings; and ye shall go forth, and grow up as calves of the stall.

3 And ye shall tread down the wicked; for they shall be ashes under the soles of your feet in the day that I shall do this, saith the Lord of hosts. Mal.4

When the Lord returns to His people whom He has seemingly deserted, He comes with healing in His wings.

So when the Lord returned unto Job, His returning and Job's encounter with the living God brought forth repentance and a man face down in the dirt, as it always does, brought about the healing that Job required, the healing of the wound of the seeming desertion by his God.

Job lost everything but he was already at the stage where terrible wounds would not occur to him no matter what happened because he was God's servant. When his children died it did not destroy him as it would other men and especially, women. He praised God instead and gave Him back what really belonged to Him, that is, Job's children. He did not break until after the week of silence.

I believe that the week of silence meant God's departure. No-one spoke and especially, God did not speak. After this week Job broke.

That is not imply that losing his children meant nothing to him. Of course he was grieved but he had already made the vow that all things work to the good and he would have accepted their deaths without any anger or question towards God.

It is this anger and questioning which causes our pain.

God returned and therefore Job was healed.

 

[brinny]

When the account is given of how Job was restored "things" which were taken from him, and that others brought him "things", etc. it's as if THAT matters. It doesn't. THAT is not what matters. MORE should be in there about what you posted. RESTORATION with God is what matters here. God's ARMS matter after all of THAT. HEALING is what matters. God's PRESENCE matters.

God is the God of ALL Comfort. THIS needs more detail. It MATTERS. In my relationship with God it matters. He's our Protector, Defender, our Shepherd, our Healer of body, mind, and spirit. His joy is ours. He REJOICES over us with singing. THIS is what i need to see. THIS.

THINGS don't mean a hill o' beans. Without God's healing and grace, those "things" can take a hike". For all that transpired with Job, where by the skin of his teeth he lived through it, the details as the book closes are abrupt and devoid of what really matters.

 

[bmjackson]

I think that it is left blank for a reason so that we can interpret according to our heart. God does not force truth before we are able.

Don't forget that Job had already been made whole ie holy.

 

[brinny]

There needs to be a study on the last part of Job for edification. What is highlighted is the "things" that were restored to Job. I don't give a hoot about those "things".

I've been through inexplicable struggling and i did not understand.,....it was as if God stepped back and allowed the enemy to pummel me and i was "in the dark" about why except i knew it had to be "training" and/or God's "boot camp" of sorts.....i had "theme songs" so to speak...

here are a couple of them.... (after inexplicable suffering....well "things" don't matter...they just don't.....)

Selah - All My Tears - YouTube

Casting Crowns - Praise You In This Storm (Saving Private Ryan) - YouTube

 

[brinny]

There needs to be a study on the last part of Job for edification. What is highlighted is the "things" that were restored to Job. I don't give a hoot about those "things".

I've been through inexplicable struggling and i did not understand.,....it was as if God stepped back and allowed the enemy to pummel me and i was "in the dark" about why except i knew it had to be "training" and/or God's "boot camp" of sorts.....i had "theme songs" so to speak...

here are a couple of them.... (after inexplicable suffering....well "things" don't matter...they just don't.....)

Selah - All My Tears - YouTube

Casting Crowns - Praise You In This Storm (Saving Private Ryan) - YouTube

 

[bmjackson]

I understand. I am now in a situation of suffering where it seems that God has abandoned me with no hope to ease the suffering, which is extreme in the physical and also in the emotional due to the loss of my four children.

I have also seen that the losses Job had would now cause him pain when God left.

God left but also all other sources of comfort left too. He was left with nothing and utterly traumatised.

 

[brinny]

I'm soooooo sorry....lifting you up to Him, Who is ABLE (yes i believe that He IS able and that He IS our GREAT Comforter and Healer and that HE CARRIES us during those inexplicably painful times of loss, like a Shepherd carries His lamb.) Praying that you sense His presence and His arms during this inexplicable time of loss. Father may it be so, in Jesus name, amen. (((hug)))

Forgive my thinking out loud in this thread with my struggles with something that is very difficult for me.....i "wrestle" with God at times when i do not understand. His grace covers me during these times....it is my way of coming to Him and "reasoning"....mine is just more emotional. He is gracious. He allows me to wrestle with Him as He did with Jacob, and others throughout history. i take ALL my difficulties to Him and those things i passionately do not understand, usually with tears. And since He reads my heart He knows that in doing so, i am in essence declaring that He is ALL i got.....and where else am i going to take it all?

Another theme song...yeah, i gots a lots o' them:

http://myspace.com/cynthiaclawson/music/song/the-journey-21078283-20879468

 

[bmjackson]

Sister, I have struggled too for many a long year and have nearly quit my faith many times. I have had a period of amazing blessing where the tears were wiped from my eyes and my eyes have seen the glory of the Lord. I never thought that I would be back in the pit but here I am and waiting with bated breath. I do not want to be like Moses and fail to let God deal with my deepest parts. I want to go all the way as far as man can with God. Good to meet a fellow sufferer. Well you know what I mean

Good link thanks

 

[brinny]

yes, i'm familiar with pits that can seem insurmountable.....

and Moses? Bless his dear heart, he didn't really "lose" even if God for reasons bigger than Moses didn't allow him enter into the promised land. God still loved him. He remained a servant of God, and his passing i'm certain was a blessed one. Didn't God Himself bury Moses?

Here's a video that i find so precious...and it is because this particular actor most likely catches the expression i suspect Moses himself wore as God began moving the waters....my expression would've been about the same....look at his face

Still - Be Still and Know that I am God! - YouTube