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A Parable about Age

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GA777

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Well, whatever it is I needed to believe, I didn't get.
"He gave it to you but you missed it." Then, obviously it wasn't what I needed was it? I gave a starving child in Africa some food here in Texas but he missed it; his fault not mine.


That's good for that atheist. I have no such experiences.


My point about that comment was lost on you, though. I am not saying that these people couldn't be right or aren't right. I am saying that you're using YOUR subjective experience and that of many others, which cannot be empirically analyzed, as evidence but my subjective experience somehow doesn't count as evidence of anything other than my failings. If these experiences cannot be analyzed, how can we be sure whose experiences are correct?

Because you didnt seek.

you cant analyze such things because you dont know "when" they will happen,and for so many converts to happen for either a great feeling of the holy spirit,experiencing ndes or miracles,seeing angels or demons.. cant be a coincidence,especially that there always are many similarities in the experiences.a hallunicating person can see an infinite of unreal things.
And I told you why not "all prayers are answered".If they all agree with the will of God,they'll be answered, all of them.
But you can try yourself,and you need to seek from all your heart and all your soul,and you wont need any evidence,because you'll have your own experience(s).It's not as easy as it sounds.It is hard in fact,if you really want some really satisfying results.
 
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sandwiches

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Because you didnt seek.
Oh I seeked. No question about it.

you cant analyze such things because you dont know "when" they will happen,and for so many converts to happen for either a great feeling of the holy spirit,experiencing ndes or miracles,seeing angels or demons.. cant be a coincidence,especially that there always are many similarities in the experiences.a hallunicating person can see an infinite of unreal things.
Emphasis mine and I agree with you. Regardless of the reason, we can't analyze who's telling the truth and who isn't; Your claims are as valid as mine.

And I told you why not "all prayers are answered".If they all agree with the will of God,they'll be answered, all of them.
But you can try yourself,and you need to seek from all your heart and all your soul,and you wont need any evidence,because you'll have your own experience(s).It's not as easy as it sounds.It is hard in fact,if you really want some really satisfying results.
To be able to seek God "from all [my] heart," I have to believe he's out there to be found and wants me to find him. I don't.
 
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Belk

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Not at all.Just search google and you'll find that the response of GOd is nowhere near the fsm (he answered none).Countless prayers get answered that even many miracles keep happening to fulfill some prayers every now by the christian God , if they agree with the will of the father (bringing justice and salvation) which is necessary.

you can search "god answered my prayer" and you'll get tonnes of results.
And which statistics are you talking about?


As another poster mentioned this is a case of confirmation bias, a well known human foible. The statistics I am talking about is when tests are done looking at the effectiveness of prayer it turns out that praying for something is exactly as effective as doing nothing at all.
 
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Davian

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Even though God wrote in His Diary that there would be no signs in the coming dispensation?

Mark 8:12 And he sighed deeply in his spirit, and saith, Why doth this generation seek after a sign? verily I say unto you, There shall no sign be given unto this generation.

Which generation does this text speak to? Or do you just wave this around as needed?

Did you read sandwiches' post?

Which generation do you think this text speaks to?
The text from sandwiches' post? I don't think he intended to speak to a particular generation.

I was asking specifically about the text from your bible.

Raze has already responded that he gets what he believes to be answers to prayers. Do you?

Do you agree with his definition of 'generation' in this context?
 
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GA777

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Oh I seeked. No question about it.


Emphasis mine and I agree with you. Regardless of the reason, we can't analyze who's telling the truth and who isn't; Your claims are as valid as mine.


To be able to seek God "from all [my] heart," I have to believe he's out there to be found and wants me to find him. I don't.

Sorry,I should have explained better.Seek from all your heart and your soul.

Yes.And those who say they had experiences must be right too (not all of course because there are always a few with an agenda).It's like I searched and found someone for example,but you searched and didnt,so it doesnt mean that this person doesnt exist,and beca
use someone else found him,he must exist.

I'm pretty sure you can clear your mind for some moments every now and then,you'd be able to forget everything you experienced,and you dont need to know he exists,because you have to 'search' for him and the most effective way is through prayer and fasting.But praying would be enough,and as I said,if you cant do it from your heart,clear your mind and forget everything you experienced,it can be done.
 
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GA777

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As another poster mentioned this is a case of confirmation bias, a well known human foible. The statistics I am talking about is when tests are done looking at the effectiveness of prayer it turns out that praying for something is exactly as effective as doing nothing at all.

Then why do so many claim to have had their prayers answered?Of course he wont answer all prayers,because he sees things differently,he doesnt see them the way we do,he only answers prayers by his will ( which is to accomplish justice and salvation of souls).
 
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thaumaturgy

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That really isn't what Islam teaches, just in case you were wondering.

Well, then what about the people who fervently believe that is what their god indicates they should do.

It doesn't matter what the Qran teaches or what the Bible teaches. What matters is how people can come up with dramatically opposing viewpoints of what God truly really wants.
 
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Belk

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Then why do so many claim to have had their prayers answered?Of course he wont answer all prayers,because he sees things differently,he doesnt see them the way we do,he only answers prayers by his will ( which is to accomplish justice and salvation of souls).


As was stated, confirmation bias. If God answers prayers then he apparently answers them in the exact same fashion as if one had not prayed.
 
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I prayed fervently and emotionally. I begged God to show me some sign of his existence. Nothing.
So God does not want to be your servant and do things your way. He does not want to be a God of your making. I found the same thing. He would not do what I asked Him to do. I found out He makes the rules, He is King and it is up to us to follow Him and do things the way He does them. Then one day I found out He wants to give us far beyond all we would think or ask. I was amazed at all He has for us and wants to provide for us.
 
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sandwiches

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So God does not want to be your servant and do things your way. He does not want to be a God of your making. I found the same thing. He would not do what I asked Him to do. I found out He makes the rules, He is King and it is up to us to follow Him and do things the way He does them. Then one day I found out He wants to give us far beyond all we would think or ask. I was amazed at all He has for us and wants to provide for us.

Well, I haven't this deity to do anything at all, my way or his way. When I see him doing anything at all, I'll make sure you let you guys in on it. ;)
 
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sandwiches

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Sorry,I should have explained better.Seek from all your heart and your soul.

Yes.And those who say they had experiences must be right too (not all of course because there are always a few with an agenda).It's like I searched and found someone for example,but you searched and didnt,so it doesnt mean that this person doesnt exist,and because someone else found him,he must exist.
Sure. To use your analogy, without having met this person, I have no reason to take you on your word, right? Worse yet, I have actually looked for this person where he's said to be reside and he wasn't there. I called for him and looked for him everywhere I could think of. Now, of course what theists tell me is that I didn't look in the right places or that he doesn't have to answer me (AV and Jazer.) Fine. So, show me exactly where I can find him or, better yet, introduce him to me; just don't expect me to simply believe you when you tell me this person exists and he X and Y when I haven't even seen him. I've only heard stories, and vague descriptions of him, conflicting ones at that, even within the same person but yet I'm supposed to not only accept these stories but I'm supposed to already put my trust in this person even before I can be sure he exists.

I'm pretty sure you can clear your mind for some moments every now and then,you'd be able to forget everything you experienced,and you dont need to know he exists,because you have to 'search' for him and the most effective way is through prayer and fasting.But praying would be enough,and as I said,if you cant do it from your heart,clear your mind and forget everything you experienced,it can be done.
Is prayer effective when you don't believe it does anything or that anyone will even hear it? In other words, is prayer effective even without faith?
 
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AV1611VET

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So God does not want to be your servant and do things your way. He does not want to be a God of your making. I found the same thing. He would not do what I asked Him to do. I found out He makes the rules, He is King and it is up to us to follow Him and do things the way He does them. Then one day I found out He wants to give us far beyond all we would think or ask. I was amazed at all He has for us and wants to provide for us.
Then maybe again, He did answer sandwiches prayer, but His way.

Remember the show Karate Kid, and the wax-on-wax-off scene?
 
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AV1611VET

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It does not sound like he got 'no' for an answer - 'nothing' would be 'no answer'.

Was that due to no One there?
Sometimes I don't answer the phone when it rings; that doesn't mean I'm not home, does it?
 
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Davian

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It does not sound like he got 'no' for an answer - 'nothing' would be 'no answer'.

Was that due to no One there?

Sometimes I don't answer the phone when it rings; that doesn't mean I'm not home, does it?
How does "not picking up the phone" equate to answering "no"?

#377
 
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AV1611VET

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How does "not picking up the phone" equate to answering "no"?

#377
I'm just showing all the options which, of course, he doesn't seem to like.

I don't know what it was he specifically prayed for, and it's none of my business.

Furthermore, I don't know how God specifically responded.

All I know is that God handled it His way, and if sandwiches won't accept that, then he will just be making the matter worse.
 
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Well, I haven't this deity to do anything at all, my way or his way. When I see him doing anything at all, I'll make sure you let you guys in on it. ;)
He created all the natural laws that you live by every day. There is no chance that you can get away with not going His way for very long. Still it is your choice and you have the freedom to choose.
 
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Tiberius

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Because that doesnt agree with the will of the father.And not everyone can do miracles.Faith,fasting,and praying are needed in an excessive way,some may be able to,but after lots of efforts.God only gives the authority for people who deserve to perform miracles.

A convenient excuse for you to use when it doesn't work, eh?

When he answers many prayers,it is highly unlikely that he doesnt exist.

And how many of those prayers were people praying to find car keys? Make the touchdown in the big game? What about all the people starving in Africa who pray and pray and pray and get nothing?

You have to understand that it is God who does the miracles through the people,and to do that through the people,those people must be satisfying and worthy to use for him.

You're kidding. God could help people, save them from terrible things, but he doesn't, because he doesn't like the people he'd have to use to get the job done?

First of all, that's disgusting. And why would God care? Is he afraid to get cooties or something?

And secondly, why would he even need to use people in the first place? He never needed to use people in the Bible. He could snap his fingers and get things done.

Your interpretation of this sure paints God in a bad light.

He wont do that to someone who will claim that he did it on his own for example.And even Jesus didnt do miracles in some areas to the sick,because that would have been against the will of his father (which is also his will btw.) because those people are faithless and looking for a sign and of course,arent worthy of receiving these miracles.

I can turn into a dinosaur. What's that, you don't believe me? You want me to prove it? You want me to turn into a dinosaur in front of your very eyes?

Well, i could, but y'see, the fact you don't believe me means you aren't worthy of seeing me turn into a dinosaur. Maybe if you had genuinely believed me I would do it, but your lack of belief means that you get nothing.

When you believe me, let me know, and then I'll show you.

Some for example,no matter what power you may have in healing,you wont be able to heal their blindness for example,because God sometimes put that on purpose because that would be the only way for them to get saved etc. . I know for example my ex-teacher,he was a muslim and so into islam,his daughter's life was completely hopeless,so he left everything and promised to be a Christian and help people to christianity and always make a testimony to bring people to the love of Christ If his daughter would survive (after asking Christ to heal her and praying for some time) ,and she did.He was very rich,and his parents left him when they knew his intention after his daughter's healing,and wanted to even kill him but he ran away,and he can barely now satisfy his hunger with the money he has now.If people show would show such faith after miracles,God would do them all the time.

How do you know it was God, and not, y'know, the doctors? How have you eliminated every single explanation other than God?

There's no need to discuss much of God's will here,because it is very complex and beyond our normal understanding,as he is infinite in intelligence , and the smartest of us is fooler than the fool compared to him.So his will is totally different from ours,and he sees things differently.But you have to understand 2 main things, his will is to accomplish justice and salvation of the souls

Accomplish justice and the salvation of souls, and yet by your own admission he is withholding evidence from unbelievers - the very thing required to achieve salvation!

And saying, "God works in mysterious ways" or anything of the sort is basically saying that it makes no sense to you, yet you believe it any way...

Sorry,I should have explained better.Seek from all your heart and your soul.

Look, GA777, the simple fact is that many atheists have sought, sought longer and harder than some Christians. Some people who are now atheists were once people who longed desperately to be Christian. And yet when they sought,m they found nothing, and sooner or later, they reached the inevitable conclusion.

Why is it that you have such a hard time realising that people can do the same things that you did and yet reach a different conclusion? Why do Christians so often say, "Well, if you only tried harder...?" The fact is that many people did try, and the fault is not in them, but the fact that there is just nothing out there.

Then why do so many claim to have had their prayers answered?Of course he wont answer all prayers,because he sees things differently,he doesnt see them the way we do,he only answers prayers by his will ( which is to accomplish justice and salvation of souls).

They claim it because they want to believe it. People have a strange ability to justify anything that they want to believe. So if they desire to believe in God, then they will latch onto anything which gives them an opportunity to justify their faith. That's why so many people discount evolution based on the pseudo-science of creationists. Not because they have examined both sides and found that the pseudo-science works better, but because they want to believe creationism, and if they are given a reason - any reason - to believe it, they'll grab onto that reason, push evolution away and hold onto their pseudo-science no matter what. People will believe whatever they want to, provided they have a half-cocked reason for doing so. The only way to avoid this is to subject beliefs and opinions to rigorous testing - which is exactly what science does.

Sometimes I don't answer the phone when it rings; that doesn't mean I'm not home, does it?

But it does mean that, for the person on the other end, he may as well believe that you aren't home. That is the message you are sending him, isn't it? When it comes to God, this is called atheism.
 
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AV1611VET

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But it does mean that, for the person on the other end, he may as well believe that you aren't home. That is the message you are sending him, isn't it? When it comes to God, this is called atheism.
Atheism is refusing to call because you believe the number is not a working number.
 
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AV1611VET

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Anyone can talk to God. But if you claim to hear God talk back, you are likely to end up playing with crayons in a rubber room.
That's about right.
 
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