Yes I understood that. Just thought I would add these verses for those who don't agree.
My observation UR is never clearly stated but its adherents infer it from certain proof texts.
In many translations temporal is replaced with temporary. Not sure if thats what you were meaning thoughA little off this subject here, this one here
2Cr 4:18 While we look not at the things which are seen, but at the things which are not seen: for the things which are seen are temporal; but the things which are not seen are eternal.
These are being contrasted between them so both could not mean temporal correct?
Yes. Since they want hell so badly, we should probably give them some. - lolWhat I really can't fathom though, is how people are so determined that God's chastizements must last forever, and how horrified they appear to be that God actually is both love and mercy. You would think that the Good News of forgiveness would make people want to rejoice in it rather than be upset that Dante's Cruel Palace of Tortures is not real.
Halo there,
Leave politics aside. Do you really think God will "kill" you for ever by never ever again delivering you from hell? You should always think the best of God, you know and use your reason also. Your reason existed before the bible. And I heard this passage is translated wrongly, it could mean for ever and it could mean one aeon/one million years or so.
Have you not heard of the Harrowing of Hell? Were those folks dead?Serious sin, or mortal sin, is eternal if the person who committed the sin does not receive forgiveness from God by the time they die. The sin still exists, and is eternal. And it does not exist in time and space, just as God does not exist in time and space, He is eternal. So that person would be in an eternal hell by their own choosing because of their unforgiven, serious sin. They chose to turn away from God, and did not seek forgiveness up to, and including, the point of death.
Right, as if we aren't familiar with the apologetics of eternal conscious torment. (gag me with a pitch fork) Here are some that YOU probably haven't considered. (at the risk of creating a Bible versus Bible scenario) Consider the implications of these. (and marvel that they were left intact in a Damnationist biased text - the Bible) If these aren't sufficient, I have more.For those of you here that are convinced in your own minds that God would never allow anyone to be tormented in eternal punishment, I ask you to seriously reconsider.
Some Passages appear to suggest that the eternal punishment is eternal destruction or death – the second death.
Here's something to consider about the exaggerated language sometimes used in the Bible. Is Edom still smoking today? ("smoke will rise forever" - vs 10)So, whether this place of eternal punishment is described as “eternal contempt,” or “lake of fire,” or “Gehenna,” or a “prison,” or a place of “outer darkness” three things are certain:
- The place of eternal punishment is forever
- The place of eternal punishment is a place where the unrighteous are cast into and can experience the torment day and night without rest forever.
- The place of eternal punishment is a place where there is no escape – no way out.
Here is the longer answer.So, whether this place of eternal punishment is described as “eternal contempt,” or “lake of fire,” or “Gehenna,” or a “prison,” or a place of “outer darkness” three things are certain:
- The place of eternal punishment is forever
- The place of eternal punishment is a place where the unrighteous are cast into and can experience the torment day and night without rest forever.
- The place of eternal punishment is a place where there is no escape – no way out.
For those who prefer a biblical answer.Have you not heard of the Harrowing of Hell? Were those folks dead?
For those who prefer a biblical answer.
Matthew 12:40
For as Jonah was three days and three nights in the belly of a huge fish, so the Son of Man will be three days and three nights in the heart of the earth.
Note: Christ was laid in an above ground tomb. Where is the heart of the earth?
1 Peter 3:18-20
For Christ also suffered once for sins, the righteous for the unrighteous, to bring you to God. He was put to death in the body but made alive in the Spirit. 19 After being made alive, he went and made proclamation to the imprisoned spirits— 20 to those who were disobedient long ago when God waited patiently in the days of Noah while the ark was being built. In it only a few people, eight in all, were saved through water,
Ephesians 4:8-10
This is why it says:
“When he ascended on high,
he took many captives
and gave gifts to his people.”
9 (What does “he ascended” mean except that he also
descended to the lower, earthly regions?
10 He who descended is the very one who ascended
higher than all the heavens,
in order to fill the whole universe.)
1 Peter 4:6
For this is the reason the gospel was preached even to those who are now dead, so that they might be judged according to human standards in regard to the body, but live according to God in regard to the spirit.
Romans 14:9
For this very reason, Christ died and returned to life so that he might be the Lord of both the dead and the living.
Can you explain why fire and brimstone pouring forth from heaven on Sodom to incinerate every living thing there was insufficient punishment? I'm pretty sure they got the message.Of course, many who were sinful in this life did not receive the punishment they deserved. That will take place in the Final Judgement.
Can you explain why fire and brimstone pouring forth from heaven on Sodom to incinerate every living thing there was insufficient punishment? I'm pretty sure they got the message.
I don't believe in eternal conscious torment. (or Annihilationism, for that matter) Someone else will have to defend those views.Yes, that is an earthly punishment.
If you think the Sodomites got their just punishment, can you explain why the Sodomites will be raised again on the Last Day to receive eternal torment, where, in that place, there is no rest day or night forever, where there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth in that place?
Right, as if we aren't familiar with the apologetics of eternal conscious torment. (gag me with a pitch fork) Here are some that YOU probably haven't considered. (at the risk of creating a Bible versus Bible scenario) Consider the implications of these. (and marvel that they were left intact in a Damnationist biased text - the Bible) If these aren't sufficient, I have more.
1 John 2:2
He is the atoning sacrifice for our sins, and not only for ours but also for the sins of the whole world.
Romans 11:32
For God has bound everyone over to disobedience so that he may have mercy on them all.
Titus 2:11
For the grace of God has appeared, bringing salvation for all people,
1 Timothy 4:10
That is why we labor and strive, because we have put our hope in the living God, who is the Savior of all people, and especially of those who believe.
1 John 4:14
And we have seen and testify that the Father has sent his Son to be the Savior of the world.
1 Corinthians 15:22
For as in Adam all die, so in Christ all will be made alive.
Romans 5:18-19
Consequently, just as one trespass resulted in condemnation for all people,
so also one righteous act resulted in justification and life for all people.
19 For just as through the disobedience of the one man the many were made sinners,
so also through the obedience of the one man the many will be made righteous.
Colossians 1:19-20
For God was pleased to have all his fullness dwell in him,
20 and through him to reconcile to himself all things, whether things on earth or things in heaven, by making peace through his blood, shed on the cross.
Romans 3:24 NIV
and all are justified freely by his grace through the redemption that came by Christ Jesus.
Blessings.
I don't believe in eternal conscious torment. (or Annihilationism, for that matter) Someone else will have to defend those views.
Besides, "weeping and gnashing of teeth" describes a conversion experience to me. Beyond that, we are dealing with exaggerated language. And i think the biblical texts are biased toward Damnationism. (the Traditional view)
Actually, everyone goes to "hell". (as defined below)
Mark 9:49
Everyone will be salted with fire.
Malachi 3:2
But who can endure the day of his coming? Who can stand when he appears? For he will be like a refiner’s fire or a launderer’s soap.
Lol. Glad tidings of great joy to you too friend.
Can you explain why fire and brimstone pouring forth from heaven on Sodom to incinerate every living thing there was insufficient punishment? I'm pretty sure they got the message.
I wish everyone blessings. That is my desire and hope for all. But that blessing will only rest upon those who are worthy to receive it.
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