A flat earth

[AV1611VET]

Actually, Hindu fundamentalists draw quite a bit of flak in the Hindi speaking world.

Did you read my post?

Are you telling me that the Hindi speaking world lifts up Krishna, and the atheists come from the four corners of the Internet to vegomatic them?

If so, what are they doing here?

On English speaking forums...

Finally, we get [close to] to what I said...

... most of the discussion from athiests is regarding Jesus because most English speaking religious people are Christian ...

Now you're making it sound like the atheists initiate the conversation.

Let me repeat what I said:

Christians (not atheists) lift up Jesus Christ here (that means Christians initiate the conversation) --- and the atheists will come from the four corners of the Internet to vegomatic them.

... and most English speaking athiests are from a Christian cultural background.

What does English have to do with it?

Jesus, probably in Aramaic, said that if you lift Him up, He will draw all men nigh unto Him.

Lets not get paranoid and see persecution where there is nothing more than an accident of language.

Um ... okay.

 

[AV1611VET]

'Space' doesn't exist according to scripture, so i don't care what those photos are of.

Yes it does.

It's known as "second heaven".

 

[LightHorseman]

Did you read my post?

Are you telling me that the Hindi speaking world lifts up Krishna, and the atheists come from the four corners of the Internet to vegomatic them?

The Hindi speaking ones do, sure.

If so, what are they doing here?

actually I don't know that we see many Hindi speaking athiests in here. i don't recall ever seeing anyone with an Indian flag next to their name either,

Finally, we get [close to] to what I said...
Now you're making it sound like the atheists initiate the conversation.

Let me repeat what I said:

Christians (not atheists) lift up Jesus Christ here (that means Christians initiate the conversation) --- and the atheists will come from the four corners of the Internet to vegomatic them.What does English have to do with it?

Because the athiests to whom you are refering are English speakers of a Christian background. In Hindi servers, it is Hindi speaking athiests discussing Hindu gods, and (where allowed) in Farsi servers, it will be Farsi speaking athiests who come and have a go at Farsi speaking Muslims.[/QUOTE]My problem is that you seem to be seeing active persecution where none exists.

Jesus, probably in Aramaic, said that if you lift Him up, He will draw all men nigh unto Him.Um ... okay.

Great. How's that relevent to geocentrism or a flat Earth?

 

[Asycthian]

The following is what the Bible says about the Sun.

Firstly, that the Sun sits within a chamber or dwelling place (tabernacle) within the Heaven Vault, Ps. xix. 4-6: ''hath he set a tabernacle for the sun''. That the Sun moves out of the Heavens (out of it's chamber) and around the earth, Ecc i. 5-7.

The Bible is fully opposed to Heliocentrism i.e the idea the earth moves around the Sun. This is clearly expressed in Jos x. 12-13. Joshua commanded the sun to not move. The sun was commanded to stand still because it moves. The earth does not move. The stability of the earth i have already given scriptural evidence for. The Bible repeats that the earth is stationary, and never shall be moved.

<staff edit> Heliocentrics were even burnt at the stake when they first proposed their anti-biblical cosmology.

 

[Split Rock]

Let's let the Bible break the tie.

You still don't get it. It isn't a "tie." You have a 0.01% chance of being right and I have a 99.99% chance of being right (and another example of how 95% of statistics are made up on the spot,folks!).

BTW: You are a Creationist (and an Evolutionist, since we all are both!). Is Asycthian a Poe? Or can't you tell?

 

[Chesterton]

--- and the atheists will come from the four corners of the Internet to vegomatic them.

Careful with your language. Someone will claim you espouse a flat Internetz.

 

[AV1611VET]

The following is what the Bible says about the Sun.

Firstly, that the Sun sits within a chamber or dwelling place (tabernacle) within the Heaven Vault, Ps. xix. 4-6: ''hath he set a tabernacle for the sun''. That the Sun moves out of the Heavens (out of it's chamber) and around the earth, Ecc i. 5-7.

Yes --- the Bible is describing what is called the 'ecliptic'.

Scientists like to use their own words, then end up getting confused when the Bible says the same thing from a different perspective.

The Bible is fully opposed to Heliocentrism i.e the idea the earth moves around the Sun. This is clearly expressed in Jos x. 12-13.

It is wise when teaching a child about the universe to use the perspective of the observer, rather than general relativity; and even later, when teaching general relativity, you have to invoke the perspective of the observer, or general relativity will be more difficult to understand.

In other words, you start with the perspective of geocentrism, then you "graduate" to heliocentrism --- not the other way around.

Joshua commanded the sun to not move.

That is correct; but note Whom Joshua addresses:

Then spake Joshua to the LORD in the day when the LORD delivered up the Amorites before the children of Israel, and he said in the sight of Israel, Sun, stand thou still upon Gibeon; and thou, Moon, in the valley of Ajalon.

Had Joshua addressed the earth (to stop rotating), God may not have honored his request.

In any event, Joshua knew what he was doing --- not you.

The sun was commanded to stand still because it moves. The earth does not move.

This is why God didn't pick atheists to lead His people or serve in any important capacity.

 

[Asycthian]

Ascythian, I know you're new here, so just a friendly word of warning... you are not allowed to accuse others of "not being true Christians", no matter how at variance with their theology you find yourself.

Anyway, I await an explanation of what those "so called" images of the Earth from an apparently very high vantage point are.

1 Chronicles 16:30: &#8220;He has fixed the earth firm, immovable.&#8221;

Psalm 96:10: &#8220;He has fixed the earth firm, immovable ...&#8221;

Psalm 104:5: &#8220;Thou didst fix the earth on its foundation so that it never can be shaken.&#8221;

<staff edit>

 

[AV1611VET]

You still don't get it. It isn't a "tie." You have a 0.01% chance of being right and I have a 99.99% chance of being right...

Cool --- what were the odds against Elijah --- 450-to-1?

 

[AV1611VET]

Careful with your language. Someone will claim you espouse a flat Internetz.

--- or that Ron Popeil is an atheist!

 

[Asycthian]

Yes --- the Bible is describing what is called the 'ecliptic'.

Do you read the Bible, literally or not?

If you read the Bible, simply and literally, it says the earth isn't to move. Therefore your stance on cosmology is anti-biblical if you believe the earth is moving, and is a 'globe'. Simple as that. I'm interested in meeting Biblical literalists, not Christians who personally interprete the scripture. The Bible is not compatable with the belief in round earth, and certianly not evolution.

 

[Hentenza]

Do you read the Bible, literally or not?

If you read the Bible, simply and literally, it says the earth isn't to move. Therefore your stance on cosmology is anti-biblical if you believe the earth is moving, and is a 'globe'. Simple as that. I'm interested in meeting Biblical literalists, not Christians who personally interprete the scripture. The Bible is not compatable with the belief in round earth, and certianly not evolution.

Everything in the bible is literary true but not everything is true literally. The flat earth interpretation is incorrect just as God doesn't have hands or wings. The bible uses many literary devices including anthropomorphisms, allegory, parables, etc.

 

[AV1611VET]

Do you read the Bible, literally or not?

As literally as my phone book.

If you read the Bible, simply and literally, it says the earth isn't to move.

You're playing the Telephone Game.

No, It doesn't say 'the earth isn't to move'.

Therefore your stance on cosmology is anti-biblical if you believe the earth is moving, and is a 'globe'.

Only if I played the Telephone Game with the Word of God.

I showed you where the Bible says we are to be "unmoveable" as well, and you [must have] hung up on me.

Simple as that.

Occam's Razor is confusing you.

The only thing you're demonstrating in this thread is what happens when someone without a proper theological education interprets the Bible literally.

They can't apply the proper semantics to a passage, and therefore cannot distinguish between what is literal and what is non-literal.

In techno-speak, they are hermeneutically challenged.

I'm interested in meeting Biblical literalists, not Christians who personally interprete the scripture.

You've been conversing with one and don't even realize it.

 

[Asycthian]

The only thing you're demonstrating in this thread is what happens when someone without a proper theological education interprets the Bible literally.

Do you accept the belief in a round earth is modern?

Or do you believe the ancient Hebrews (and other ancients) believed the earth was round and not flat.

 

[Ellinas]

Do you accept the belief in a round earth is modern?

Or do you believe the ancient Hebrews (and other ancients) believed the earth was round and not flat.

Thales and other Greek Philosophers believed in a round earth and also some even believed in a heliocentric solar system circa 640 BC. They did so by logical deduction. This issue of a flat earth is just too unscientific.

 

[AV1611VET]

Do you accept the belief in a round earth is modern?

No --- Noah and his sons would have taught the earth is round.

Only those who "went prodigal" would believe the earth was flat.

Or do you believe the ancient Hebrews (and other ancients) believed the earth was round and not flat.

Yes.

Shem, Noah's son, lived right to the time of Jacob's birth.

 

[LightHorseman]

No --- Noah and his sons would have taught the earth is round.

Only those who "went prodigal" would believe the earth was flat.Yes.

Shem, Noah's son, lived right to the time of Jacob's birth.

So... when the KJV uses the term "corners of the Earth"... its NOT literally correct?

 

[AV1611VET]

So... when the KJV uses the term "corners of the Earth"... its NOT literally correct?

Yes --- it is literally correct: 392 .

 

[LightHorseman]

Yes --- it is literally correct: 392 .

Except, of course, that the Earth ISN'T cut into 4 wedges...

 

[Asycthian]

Thales and other Greek Philosophers believed in a round earth and also some even believed in a heliocentric solar system circa 640 BC. They did so by logical deduction. This issue of a flat earth is just too unscientific.

Thales was a flat earth believer, and was the earliest recognised pre-Socratic philosopher. The earliest Greek map makers were also flat earth believers (Anaximander and Hecataeus of Miletus), as were the earliest ancient Greek writers (Homer, Hesiod).

The only pre-Socratic philosophers who didn't believe the earth was flat, were the Pythagoreans after Pythagoras, Parmenides and Empedocles.

By the way, even the founders of the Atomist School, Leucippus and Democritus were flat earth believers. The Atomists were materialist atheists. So even atheists originally believed the earth was flat.