A concern id like to get a fellow protestants opinion on.

[Presbyterian Continuist]

Well there is a Methodist church on the main street of the town we live in but we aren't comfortable with them for a few reasons. 1. Their pastor is female 2. They believe in free grace theology which to us directly contradicts the Bible (Hebrews 10:36, & Matthew 24:13 just to name a few) and there was one church across from my old apartment that my wife and I checked out a few years ago. The pastor there made us uncomfortable by claiming that he had revelations from God that basically were "we're the only true church and give us money". We left immediately before the service was even over lol. I believe there is a Presbyterian church within a half hour of here but I honestly don't know much about the Presbyterians. What do they believe?

Umm I had a friend from south Carolina try to find us a church and he was like "holy crap! You really don't have many church options in your area if you don't want to be Catholic do you?" lol.

Even the Catholic churches in our area are kind of "bad". Many of them don't believe that you need Christ to be saved, that you are saved by your works, just lots of good stuff like that. Sadly my mom is stuck in a cult like that.

Just... Such a bad town. But I've lived here for most of my life and don't really want to leave when I'm going to be owning my own house soon.

Oh yeah my wife brought up a Baptist church in Saranac Lake but apparently they believe that you have to speak in tongues to be saved. That's probably why my friend never mentioned them. Honestly I doubt even mind it if the church I joined was KJV only even if I don't believe in that anymore. At least being KJV only it shows that you're dedicated to scripture.

I have a Pentecostal background being converted in an AOG church in 1966. I have fellowshiped in Anglican and Baptist churches since, and if I hadn't had to move cities, I would quite happily have stayed with either of them. What I discovered was that underneath the formal side of these churches, there was a group of Christians who loved the Lord and who in many ways were as mad as I was!

Then, in my present city I joined a Presbyterian church and found that they identified themselves as a "middle of the road" church, which seemed to me not much different to a standard Baptist church. The doctrinal base of most Presbyterian churches are Calvinist Reformed, according to the Westminster Confession. My church is evangelical, and the Word of God is preached.

Some of the downsides:
Some tend to be fairly formal, and some preaching tends to be on the academic side. In NZ there was a major division between the orthodox and the "modernist liberal" (no resurrection, no virgin birth, God not personal - Bishop Spong's teaching). So you need to find out where they stand in that.

Also, some Presbyterian churches accept female ministry. We had a woman minister for a number of years, and she was a breath of fresh air to the church. Of course, she was supported by a strong eldership team of mature men, so she did not usurp any male authority in the church. By the way, Presbyterian churches are elder-ruled, and the minister has just one vote in the decision-making. I understand that Baptist churches are more congregational in the way decisions are made. My church does have congregation meetings to ratify and support any important decisions that affects everyone - mainly as a forum for members to put their views and to provide communication. But the final decision is for the elders.

While the Anglican church has the oversight of regional bishops, in the Presbyterian church there is a regional Presbytery, made up of ordained minister and elder delegates. It provides general oversight, but does not interfere with the decision making of individual churches. I understand that the Baptist churches are basically autonomous.

Some Presbyterian churches therefore are liberal, strictly Calvinist Reformed, Middle of the Road, or Charismatic. These all depend on the type of elders and ministers in each church.

So I don't know what the PCUSA is like, and you might need to go visit your local Presbyterian church, see what the service is like, listen to the preaching, and have a talk with the minister. You might have the pleasant surprise to find out that it may be a good church to attend and be bonded into. I know this, that there will be like-minded believers there whom you will find good fellowship with. Genuine believers are the same everywhere no matter what denomination they are associated with, even that Methodist church that didn't turn your crank!

 

[miggles]

Okay maybe I can't call myself a Protestant when I don't belong to the Protestant church.

I do believe that I am chosen by God,saved, and will preservere to the end (since I believe in perseverance of the saints and I've tried to leave the faith before. Its impossible), my beliefs line up with most Protestants therefore I label myself a Protestant despite not actually being a member of any Protestant church.


Anyway I have a few questions. I'm getting a car VERY soon so my wife and I have been excited and have been looking for some Baptist churches in our area. The problem? There are virtually none. We literally live in the middle of nowhere.

I've found one Baptist church in South Burlington thats really promising. But south Burlington is over 100 miles away and would cost my wife and I at least $60 a week to go to by the time you count donations and gas money. That's almost $250 a month and honestly just isn't realistic for my wife and I on our VERY limited income.

So its seeming like church continues to be hopeless because I absolutely refuse to get into a car with a complete stranger for 6+ hours when I have a car now. Plus who would agree to drive for 6 hours for basically free and eat $40+ a week in gas not to mention wear and tear on their car? Nope, not realistic.

So I have a question. Since church attendance just isn't realistic in any way,shape, or form for me will I lose my salvation? If I don't take communion will I lose my salvation? Or get baptized the "right" way? Because my wife and I both were already baptized. We just were infants at the time. I want to make a public declaration of my faith in Christ so maybe I will get baptized full immersion one day and pay for that cost.

Okay fine, you can't lose your salvation. I know its a commonly held Protestant belief that's taught in the Bible. But isn't a faith that saves a faith that's never alone? I.E. I SHOULD get baptized full immersion and I SHOULF regularly attend church, regularly take communion,...etc.


After all that's what God created me for and commanded me to do right? No sarcasm here I'm being serious and I really do believe that a saving faith is a faith of action.

True, I do Gods will and Gods work everyday of my life but is it really enough to say "I have saving faith and will believe in Christ until the day I die?"

I know I will preservere not just because I believe in perseverance of the saints but also because I couldn't lose my faith in Christ even if I TRIED.
I know I have the Holy Spirit for several reasons but I guess I am just thinking a long the lines if "what if I'm wrong and I don't have the HS?" What if what I witnessed of my rebirth was a lie?


Idk... I just feel like crap. Like I have no right to call myself a Protestant is if all I do is believe like a Protestant and love to watch Protestant services on YouTube. I happen to think Piper is fantastic. And he says that Church attendance doesn't make the Christian. But many other Pastors do. So its like... Who do I listen to?

you can be saved just by praying for it. and trying to live a life according to the Bible.

 

[Neostarwcc]

There are many of us on this site who don't go to church (myself included) either because we are socially awkward, or could never find the right church environment to include ourselves in. I don't believe at all that your salvation is in jeopardy because of it.
As for making a public declaration of your faith, you can do that here, or you can do it simply in how you live among others you see each day.

Oh! Sorry! I didnt mean to make you think I ignored you but I thought Albion was the first replied to my thread! Sorry! Umm well I might subscribe to the Baptist belief that Baptism is a great way to publically declare ones faith in Christ. I wasnt able to make one as a baby so I might want to invest the money to get baptized by Aa really good Baptist church. Idk. People are familiar with me on CF and most of you guys know who I am and that I have faith but honestly it makes me feel like a heathen that I'm not baptized in a way tbafs generally splattered throughout the Bible.

Something else to consider as an alternative to a church would be a home bible study. I'm not sure how you would go about finding out where one was located, but if there are really no churches of the type you're looking for in such a wide area around you, then it would seem likely that someone would have started up something in their home where people in that area can meet. The need for things like that usually arise when there is a real lack of an established church in a particular area.

Actually this isn't a bad idea or maybe I can join one online. I know some bible study groups do exist around this area because I knew one Protestant who said that he attended a study regularly but I dont remember where he said it was. He was a member of his own church but I forget what church it was. It was mostly just a small church but I wouldn't have cared.

 

[Neostarwcc]

I know the area a little bit. I went to school in Potsdam, and I had in-laws in Essex Jct, VT. I can't believe there are no Baptist churches closer than 100 miles. But what about other community or congregational type churches? Have you ever tried one?

Just looking at google maps, and it does look quite barren. Malone seems to have several types of churches.

Yes there are some churches in Malone that maybe we can look at. There was one nondenominational church near one of the prisons that we were maybe considering but, idk I'd have go open up to the idea of women pastors. I know we have one as one of the admins here but I just dont know if I'm comfortable with one.

 

[Neostarwcc]

Right. Methodism is not very close to what you are seeking.


I wouldn't recommend this one!


The Presbyterian Church is closer to what you seek. It has dignified services but not all the ceremonial things that people associate with Episcopalians, Lutherans, and even many Methodists. On questions of salvation, etc. Presbyterians (the largest church body that is associated with Calvinism--predestination, perseverance of the saints, and so on) actually are similar to what are called Regular Baptists. This congregation might deserve a visit from you.



In sum, I believe you when you say you have few choices where you live, but there is no really good substitute for church attendance. If you can find a church near enough, I urge you to give it a try. And if you find that it is basically okay but you disagree here and there, consider attending without seeking to become a member. That "half a loaf" approach is way better than House Churches, home Bible study groups, online church services, and so on--all of which are last ditch approaches.

Yeah... I mean there are some bad churches around here. We left that church within like a half an hour of their service. Well if I have to open up to the idea of a woman preacher as people are saying (I mean I can't be totally picky in the year 2019 when many churches are turning away from Gods word and even Paul seemed to be okay with women teaching Chrjstianity so why not preachers you know?)

I will probably swing by a few churches before I completely freak out.

 

[Neostarwcc]

Hi neostarrwcc,

Have you visited the 'Ignite' church? I looked it up on line and it seems to be a fairly small congregation, but the review I read did say that they were on fire for the Lord. I've also worshiped with baptist fellowships for quite awhile, but I have also attended non-denominational. My biggest issue is whether or not the teacher teaches the true word of God. I'm not interested in new age theology or what translation of the Scriptures they use, or pretty much any of the other stuff. Does the pastor stick to the truth of the word and do they offer communion service from time to time.

It does look like the Ignite fellowship does use a praise team style of music worship. I know that turns a lot of people off and especially if it is too loud, but it certainly beats not attending worship at all. I'm not sure that I could maintain for long with out some revival and regeneration in sharing with a fellowship of believers. The world's just too hard a place for anyone to go too long without being with the gathering of the believers.

God bless,
In Christ, ted

I have not heard of them I will have to look them up.

 

[Neostarwcc]

Have you tried Church at the Well? They are a non-denom in Burlington.

Church at the Well - A Christian Church in Burlington, Vermont

The thing is if we have to take the ferry every Sunday that could get costly. I believe its 10 bucks each way. Which is why we were going to take the long route to Burlington its be a longer car ride but less cost in the long run. Idk if I do have to set aside around $200 every month to attend church maybe I can ask my wife to get a job to help pay for it.

I wouldn't mind a non denomination church though. They're mostly in line with what I believe hence why I chose nomdenom when setting up my CF account.

 

[Neostarwcc]

How can you obey the command in Hebrews by watching tv?

Hebrews 10:25
not forsaking our own assembling together, as is the habit of some, but encouraging one another; and all the more as you see the day drawing near

You cannot be assembled together and you cannot personally encourage anyone from the receiving end of a tv transmission.

I have to say K kinda agree. Maybe my wife and I can move eventually even if we are going to be given a free house here.

 

[Neostarwcc]

Well, Baptism itself is not, and receiving Communion is not. Christ himself said that his followers were to do both of them. A person who does not do that may not jeopardize his salvation in the process, but clearly is not living in accordance with Christ's commands to him if he is able to receive both and simply decides not to.

Right and that would lead to rebuke from Christ at the very least. J want to hear Christ say "well done." Not "you wicked and lazy servant!" But then again ALL of us desire tgat.

 

[Neostarwcc]

I can give you a few protestant teachers of the word that have services on tv if you are interested.

I've already mentioned that I love watching Piper. My wife and I think that hes a FANTASTIC pastor. But, hes also getting on in the years and wont be around for forever unfortunately. Hes already in his early 70s.

 

[Neostarwcc]

Please forgive me, but that sounds judgmental rather than helpful.

"For where two or three are gathered together in my name, there am I in the midst of them." (Matthew 18:20)

This man and his wife are gathered in the name of Christ.

Maybe but Dave also has a point that throught the Bible God gives many commands to be a part of yhe union and church. We can't do that if we're just sitting at home watching other people do it.

Well since Protestants just think that the eucharist is symbolic maybe my wife and I can make our own eurachrist at home *shrug* it's a thought.

 

[Neostarwcc]

Bottom line up front, ask yourself if the thief on the cross ever went to church. Was the thief on the cross baptized or received communion? Of course, the answer is no. But he confessed he was a sinner and submitted to the Lordship of Jesus Christ. Now, just to be clear, the thief on the cross did the absolute bare minimum to enter the kingdom of heaven and I do not recommend settling for the bare minimum. You should always strive to grow in your maturity as a Christian through the diligent study of the Word and discipleship with fellow believers. So if you cannot find a Baptist church, I would recommend getting plugged into a local Church. Is there a reason why you have to go to a Baptist Church? Perhaps there is a non-denomination church close by?

Actually you have a really great point. The thief on the cross did the bare minimum to get saved but Christ saved him due to his faith. He probably recieved no rewards in heaven (because how could he have done so when he died literally within the hour after his statement of faith)


I mean I do do things for Christ on a daily basis and when I went to Christ in the first place I went "all in". Theres a 100% chance I'm saved. So honestly idk what's wrong with me.

If a Christian ended up not attending and actively participating in his church he would probably lose rewards. Not salvation.

 

[eleos1954]

Okay maybe I can't call myself a Protestant when I don't belong to the Protestant church.

I do believe that I am chosen by God,saved, and will preservere to the end (since I believe in perseverance of the saints and I've tried to leave the faith before. Its impossible), my beliefs line up with most Protestants therefore I label myself a Protestant despite not actually being a member of any Protestant church.


Anyway I have a few questions. I'm getting a car VERY soon so my wife and I have been excited and have been looking for some Baptist churches in our area. The problem? There are virtually none. We literally live in the middle of nowhere.

I've found one Baptist church in South Burlington thats really promising. But south Burlington is over 100 miles away and would cost my wife and I at least $60 a week to go to by the time you count donations and gas money. That's almost $250 a month and honestly just isn't realistic for my wife and I on our VERY limited income.

So its seeming like church continues to be hopeless because I absolutely refuse to get into a car with a complete stranger for 6+ hours when I have a car now. Plus who would agree to drive for 6 hours for basically free and eat $40+ a week in gas not to mention wear and tear on their car? Nope, not realistic.

So I have a question. Since church attendance just isn't realistic in any way,shape, or form for me will I lose my salvation? If I don't take communion will I lose my salvation? Or get baptized the "right" way? Because my wife and I both were already baptized. We just were infants at the time. I want to make a public declaration of my faith in Christ so maybe I will get baptized full immersion one day and pay for that cost.

Okay fine, you can't lose your salvation. I know its a commonly held Protestant belief that's taught in the Bible. But isn't a faith that saves a faith that's never alone? I.E. I SHOULD get baptized full immersion and I SHOULF regularly attend church, regularly take communion,...etc.


After all that's what God created me for and commanded me to do right? No sarcasm here I'm being serious and I really do believe that a saving faith is a faith of action.

True, I do Gods will and Gods work everyday of my life but is it really enough to say "I have saving faith and will believe in Christ until the day I die?"

I know I will preservere not just because I believe in perseverance of the saints but also because I couldn't lose my faith in Christ even if I TRIED.
I know I have the Holy Spirit for several reasons but I guess I am just thinking a long the lines if "what if I'm wrong and I don't have the HS?" What if what I witnessed of my rebirth was a lie?


Idk... I just feel like crap. Like I have no right to call myself a Protestant is if all I do is believe like a Protestant and love to watch Protestant services on YouTube. I happen to think Piper is fantastic. And he says that Church attendance doesn't make the Christian. But many other Pastors do. So its like... Who do I listen to?

****

Attending church doesn't save a person ... Jesus does.

Christians are people who follow the teachings of Christ they are the called out ones. Don't get hung up on the various "labels".

and this is what Jesus taught ...

Matthew 16:24

Then Jesus said to his disciples, “Whoever wants to be my disciple must deny themselves and take up their cross and follow me.

Go online and get some good bible study guides.

Start your own "church" ... get people together at your houses and study together .... just like in the days of the apostles. A lot of people do that.

Protestants are people that are separate from the Roman Catholic Church and follow the principles of the Reformation

You are a follower of Christ ... study His word diligently.

Wanting to get baptized through a church? Write some letters to churches closest to you and let them know you and your wife want to get baptized ... some may require you be a member of their church ... leave those alone and keep searching ... or .... search for a retired minister ... if you look eventually you will find ... perhaps they will come to you .... all you need is enough water to be submerged and a sincere heart.

What is Baptism?

Baptism symbolizes and declares our new faith in Christ and our trust in His forgiveness. Buried in the water, we arise to a new life in Jesus, empowered by the Holy Spirit.

By baptism we confess our faith in the death and resurrection of Jesus Christ, and testify of our death to sin and of our purpose to walk in newness of life. Thus we acknowledge Christ as Lord and Saviour, become His people, and are received as members by His church. Baptism is a symbol of our union with Christ, the forgiveness of our sins, and our reception of the Holy Spirit. It is by immersion in water and is contingent on an affirmation of faith in Jesus and evidence of repentance of sin. It follows instruction in the Holy Scriptures and acceptance of their teachings. (Matt. 28:19, 20; Acts 2:38; 16:30-33; 22:16; Rom. 6:1-6; Gal. 3:27; Col. 2:12, 13.)

Don't worry and study Gods word!

God Bless.

 

[Neostarwcc]

Hey Neostarwcc,

What you are describing is the belief in the Doctrines of Grace, which is another name for Soveregnity of God, Calvinism, or Reformed Theology. Link to help get more details on it: What are the doctrines of grace? | GotQuestions.org

I have a background more or less in Pentecostalism. By God's grace I was introduced to the wonderful knowledge of how big and awesome God is. That the church has a powerful history we can stand on that is really never taught in most churches anymore. It wasn't hard to believe in radical depravity because I am acutely aware of how evil I been and still am. All honestly I never wanted to be saved, but I am very grateful that I was.

Be honest you will go thru phases where believing about the sovereignty will mess with you. It happens to everyone. I had to step back from these beliefs for a while due to things I couldn't let go of. Thankfully I made my peace about it. All I want to do is find my place in my Lord's kingdom. Sometimes that place is not always inside the church walls.

I truly believe in the heritage of expository preaching, but not all churches follow that practice anymore. Thankfully there are so many great resources online that can help with that part of the walk. Yet we are still part of the body of Christ, and we are meant to be part of the community of believers. Sometimes that body is a mix bag of beliefs, and not everyone agrees with each other. We can still grow and edify each other.

Just like you I have google mapped every church in the west valley of Phoenix AZ. I have analyzed day and night trying to find a new home for my wife and I. Even when I found a good one right under our noses, I work night shifts and deal with the public. By Saturday night I was such a mess, that I still couldn't get us to go to that church. We been without a church for pretty close to a year, and I even questioned if I was saved. Yet thru this dry season in our lives, I discovered we ordained to go thru it. That in our pain, we can help guide others. I learned to accept that, and I post here to be part of the Kingdom.

Seasons bring change, and my work scheduled has changed with it. I am not worried about which church we will end up with. We will take our time, try out the churches we have access to with my days off. Even if they are not reformed in thinking, and we will let God decide where we should be 'stationed'.

I pray the Lord gives you peace and reassurance that you are His child. That like any good parent and sovereign God, he will lead you to the path that He wants for you, not what you think you should have.

Thanks! Hopefully I will find a home for my wife and I. If not maybe we should move despite the circumstances.

 

[Albion]

Well since Protestants just think that the eucharist is symbolic maybe my wife and I can make our own eurachrist at home *shrug* it's a thought.

FWIW, about half of the Protestant churches think that the eucharist is only symbolic and those that do are not also teaching that a layperson can officiate. Even if Communion were or is symbolic, it takes a minister properly called by the church/congregation.

 

[Neostarwcc]

Vermont tops both charts as the least religious state in the nation and the state with the lowest number of frequent church attenders. Burlington, VT is the least religious city in the nation.
https://www.vermontchurchplanting.com/whyvermont

Huh I actually didnt know that. I just wanted to look in Burlington because it was probably the closest large city to me besides Plattsburgh.

 

[Sketcher]

Well since Protestants just think that the eucharist is symbolic maybe my wife and I can make our own eurachrist at home *shrug* it's a thought.

Why would you feel the need to do that?

 

[Neostarwcc]

Once again my friend. You can’t lose your salvation

I know! I just got into a debate with you last week about this I out of everyone should know this. Idk just temporarily lost myself I guess. Lol!

 

[Neostarwcc]

How about a House Church? This is how the first Century Christians gathered to worship, commune and help one another and their community.
I do believe it is important to be around Christians who are like minded and with similar convictions. One thing house churches have in common, there is a great avoidance to man made doctrines. This is refreshing as long as they stay that way. You can start your own as well.
Good luck and blessings!

You mean start my own church? I considered it along with going to school for theology and getting my masters degree in theology. But I never followed up on it. But that's an idea.

 

[Neostarwcc]

I have a Pentecostal background being converted in an AOG church in 1966. I have fellowshiped in Anglican and Baptist churches since, and if I hadn't had to move cities, I would quite happily have stayed with either of them. What I discovered was that underneath the formal side of these churches, there was a group of Christians who loved the Lord and who in many ways were as mad as I was!

Then, in my present city I joined a Presbyterian church and found that they identified themselves as a "middle of the road" church, which seemed to me not much different to a standard Baptist church. The doctrinal base of most Presbyterian churches are Calvinist Reformed, according to the Westminster Confession. My church is evangelical, and the Word of God is preached.

Some of the downsides:
Some tend to be fairly formal, and some preaching tends to be on the academic side. In NZ there was a major division between the orthodox and the "modernist liberal" (no resurrection, no virgin birth, God not personal - Bishop Spong's teaching). So you need to find out where they stand in that.

Also, some Presbyterian churches accept female ministry. We had a woman minister for a number of years, and she was a breath of fresh air to the church. Of course, she was supported by a strong eldership team of mature men, so she did not usurp any male authority in the church. By the way, Presbyterian churches are elder-ruled, and the minister has just one vote in the decision-making. I understand that Baptist churches are more congregational in the way decisions are made. My church does have congregation meetings to ratify and support any important decisions that affects everyone - mainly as a forum for members to put their views and to provide communication. But the final decision is for the elders.

While the Anglican church has the oversight of regional bishops, in the Presbyterian church there is a regional Presbytery, made up of ordained minister and elder delegates. It provides general oversight, but does not interfere with the decision making of individual churches. I understand that the Baptist churches are basically autonomous.

Some Presbyterian churches therefore are liberal, strictly Calvinist Reformed, Middle of the Road, or Charismatic. These all depend on the type of elders and ministers in each church.

So I don't know what the PCUSA is like, and you might need to go visit your local Presbyterian church, see what the service is like, listen to the preaching, and have a talk with the minister. You might have the pleasant surprise to find out that it may be a good church to attend and be bonded into. I know this, that there will be like-minded believers there whom you will find good fellowship with. Genuine believers are the same everywhere no matter what denomination they are associated with, even that Methodist church that didn't turn your crank!

Maybe I'd consider that then. If Baptst/Anglican is almost the sa m.h e as Presbyterian besides them having female pastors. Honestly I should just get over that. Its 2019 and many churches arent following God anymore. It's getting to the point where it's really hard to find a church.