700,000 people could lose food stamps under Trump administration's new SNAP rules

[yeshuaslavejeff]

I would submit that Gen. 3:17-19 says the exact opposite about work. As a result of the fall, work isn't a blessing but a curse.

No worries, other than , well, surviving ? Is work a verb, a noun, an adjective, a thought, a belief, an action , all of these ? Some of these ?

Best what Yahuweh Says (since what He Says counts, and is permanent, while what men say is foolish compared to Him, and is temporary - gone in a few minutes now-a-days).

Seek the Father, turn to Yahuweh the Creator, and DO as HE says.

Work or play, fun or sorrow, joy or grief, DO WHAT HE SAYS.

Jesus Says those who DO WHAT HE SAYS are HIS FAMILY.

Those who hear HIM, but are hearers only, and do not DO HIS WORD, are not justified.

 

[yeshuaslavejeff]

Let's keep it serious and not be ridiculous please. Thanks.

.... it got too ridiculous with all the ... well, there's no kind word for it.... ....

 

[Jermayn]

No worries, other than , well, surviving ? Is work a verb, a noun, an adjective, a thought, a belief, an action , all of these ? Some of these ?

Best what Yahuweh Says (since what He Says counts, and is permanent, while what men say is foolish compared to Him, and is temporary - gone in a few minutes now-a-days).

Seek the Father, turn to Yahuweh the Creator, and DO as HE says.

Work or play, fun or sorrow, joy or grief, DO WHAT HE SAYS.

Jesus Says those who DO WHAT HE SAYS are HIS FAMILY.

Those who hear HIM, but are hearers only, and do not DO HIS WORD, are not justified.

2 Thessalonians 3:8 nor did we eat anyone's food without paying for it. On the contrary, we worked night and day, laboring and toiling so that we would not be a burden to any of you.

There's a good starting point in DOING what he says.

 

[Jermayn]

.... it got too ridiculous with all the ... well, there's no kind word for it.... ....

In what? Expecting able bodied men and women to work?

 

[yeshuaslavejeff]

In what? Expecting able bodied men and women to work?

No, that's good. The gist of the thread was bouncing from absurd to good to Scriptural to absurd again.

 

[bekkilyn]

2 Thessalonians 3:8 nor did we eat anyone's food without paying for it. On the contrary, we worked night and day, laboring and toiling so that we would not be a burden to any of you.

How is this telling people to live their normal lives? It literally says the Apostles worked for what they ate. Also, it's fine to get help when you fall on hard times, but after 2 or 3 years, you should have figured out how to fix situation.

You left out verse 9. "This was not because we do not have that right, but in order to give you an example to imitate."

You have to understand the historic and cultural context of what was going on in the Thessalonian church at the time Paul wrote the letter rather than interpret it by using 21st century conservative political ideology.

What do you think would happen if a large proportion of people suddenly dropped everything they were doing...stopped going to work, school, taking care of their households and families, etc.? It would create an emergency situation, and when it happens because people misunderstand something you wrote about Christ's second coming, then maybe you might need to address that problem pretty darn quick!

Until you walk in other people's shoes, you don't know what is going on with them or even if they are "able-bodied". Many people have undiagnosed mental and physical conditions that make it difficult or impossible to get the treatment they need. Some may not want a condition diagnosed as it may make it more difficult to find employment in the first place since there is still much discrimination against the disabled. People who are homeless may not be in a condition to think past surviving that day.

 

[yeshuaslavejeff]

2 Thessalonians 3:8 nor did we eat anyone's food without paying for it. On the contrary, we worked night and day, laboring and toiling so that we would not be a burden to any of you.

There's a good starting point in DOING what he says.

A better starting point might be what you or someone else noted: take care of the poor as Scripture says. This was noted in all the Ekklesia I think.... and noted if they failed to also. Jesus said whoever treats the poor among us badly, treats Him badly.

 

[Jermayn]

No, that's good. The gist of the thread was bouncing from absurd to good to Scriptural to absurd again.

Gotcha.

 

[bekkilyn]

I would submit that Gen. 3:17-19 says the exact opposite about work. As a result of the fall, work isn't a blessing but a curse.

Beyond that, we aren't talking about salvation here we're talking about work here on Earth. We shouldn't confuse the two.

It does not say that work itself was a curse, but that the ground was cursed to not produce anything but thorns and thistles without a huge amount of labor, and that curse was lifted after Noah. Work existed before the fall and God himself works, and neither God nor the garden he created were cursed in any way.

 

[dqhall]

Trump food stamps: Administration tightens SNAP work requirements

tulc(just in time to make Christmas a little bit brighter for all those who face getting kicked off)

Luke 14:12 (WEB)
Then Jesus said to the man who had asked him to come, `When you make a dinner or a feast, do not ask your friends, or your brothers, or the people in your family, or your rich neighbours. They will repay you by making a dinner for you.
13 But when you make a dinner, ask the people who are poor, hurt, lame, or blind.
14 You will be made happy because they cannot pay you. You will be repaid when all good people are raised from death.'

Cutting food stamps for those out of work and not on disability, but government assistance for farmers with million dollar farms down and out due to the trade war. Tax cuts for the ultra wealthy, but over a trillion dollar budget deficit.

Deuteronomy 15 commands people to give to the poor.

Acts 15 and Galatians 2 recorded Peter and the apostles recommended helping the poor as of greater importance than the law of Moses.

 

[Jermayn]

A better starting point might be what you or someone else noted: take care of the poor as Scripture says. This was noted in all the Ekklesia I think.... and noted if they failed to also. Jesus said whoever treats the poor among us badly, treats Him badly.

Agreed. I think we need to identify the poor from the lazy however.

 

[Redwingfan9]

It does not say that work itself was a curse, but that the ground was cursed to not produce anything but thorns and thistles without a huge amount of labor, and that curse was lifted after Noah. Work existed before the fall and God himself works, and neither God nor the garden he created were cursed in any way.

The verse is expansive, it extends to all work. A cursory look at all manner of professions and jobs shows that they all have difficulties, none are really easy. The curse of work was not done away with after Noah. Even if we limit the issue to the ground as you have, a cursory look at farming over the last centuries indicates that it isn't easy and is full of trouble. The dust bowl is a good example from relatively recent history.

 

[Jermayn]

You left out verse 9. "This was not because we do not have that right, but in order to give you an example to imitate."

You have to understand the historic and cultural context of what was going on in the Thessalonian church at the time Paul wrote the letter rather than interpret it by using 21st century conservative political ideology.

What do you think would happen if a large proportion of people suddenly dropped everything they were doing...stopped going to work, school, taking care of their households and families, etc.? It would create an emergency situation, and when it happens because people misunderstand something you wrote about Christ's second coming, then maybe you might need to address that problem pretty darn quick!

Until you walk in other people's shoes, you don't know what is going on with them or even if they are "able-bodied". Many people have undiagnosed mental and physical conditions that make it difficult or impossible to get the treatment they need. Some may not want a condition diagnosed as it may make it more difficult to find employment in the first place since there is still much discrimination against the disabled. People who are homeless may not be in a condition to think past surviving that day.

Ive been in those shoes for most of my life, even with mental health issues. I worked hard to get out of that situation, and I give all the credit to God for that. If someone has a mental health issue that prevents them from working, they would not be considered able bodied.

 

[bekkilyn]

The verse is expansive, it extends to all work. A cursory look at all manner of professions and jobs shows that they all have difficulties, none are really easy. The curse of work was not done away with after Noah. Even if we limit the issue to the ground as you have, a cursory look at farming over the last centuries indicates that it isn't easy and is full of trouble. The dust bowl is a good example from relatively recent history.

It may not be easy, but it's not *cursed* and it is indeed a blessing to be able to work and be productive. Just because some people do not like work does not mean that work in general is not a blessing, and it's not the only blessing which of which humans often lack gratitude.

 

[bekkilyn]

Ive been in those shoes for most of my life, even with mental health issues. I worked hard to get out of that situation, and I give all the credit to God for that. If someone has a mental health issue that prevents them from working, they would not be considered able bodied.

One issue though is that they aren't the ones who are going to get to decide on whether or not they are able-bodied. Someone else is going to decide their abilities for them, and my bet is that it would work similar to how people are determined to qualify for SSI disability, which often requires a lawyer and is typically denied the first time someone submits paperwork.

Yes, there are people who scam the system, but a large number of people who need help are going to be denied it simply because they will be judged by what they appear to be on the outside and/or if they have children.

 

[yeshuaslavejeff]

Agreed. I think we need to identify the poor from the lazy however.

Too often I've seen in person the poor blamed for their 'condition' without the blamer even ever finding out how and why they were poor/ needing help.... etc ... (it is like a routine daily for many teachers even, and groups) to blame the victim ) ....

Then , also, when the good samaritan helped someone, it was obvious they had been beaten and robbed...
and in the assemblies, meeting house to house daily, PEOPLE ALSO KNEW ONE ANOTHER - and almost "automatically", with no hesitation, or spontaneously, or having already given of their substance to the Apostles, elders or deacons - they were set to help, ready to help, and knew who they were helping.... (without neglecting strangers and travelers either - simply) .....

and taking Jesus into 'their'** homes, was not unexpected.... rather they were known for this ... (in places) ....

**they did not consider 'their' homes their own... everything was considered to be Yahuweh's , not just possessions, but their souls, their spirits, their minds, their hands, and feet, their houses, their property, all in all IS YAHUWEH'S (they already KNEW THIS) thus when they give/gave, it is simply Yahuweh's Provision they share with anyone in need, as Yahuweh Directs .... (VERY rare today, yes, VERY RARE).....

 

[Jermayn]

Too often I've seen in person the poor blamed for their 'condition' without the blamer even ever finding out how and why they were poor/ needing help.... etc ... (it is like a routine daily for many teachers even, and groups) to blame the victim ) ....

Then , also, when the good samaritan helped someone, it was obvious they had been beaten and robbed...
and in the assemblies, meeting house to house daily, PEOPLE ALSO KNEW ONE ANOTHER - and almost "automatically", with no hesitation, or spontaneously, or having already given of their substance to the Apostles, elders or deacons - they were set to help, ready to help, and knew who they were helping.... (without neglecting strangers and travelers either - simply) .....

and taking Jesus into 'their'** homes, was not unexpected.... rather they were known for this ... (in places) ....

**they did not consider 'their' homes their own... everything was considered to be Yahuweh's , not just possessions, but their souls, their spirits, their minds, their hands, and feet, their houses, their property, all in all IS YAHUWEH'S (they already KNEW THIS) thus when they give/gave, it is simply Yahuweh's Provision they share with anyone in need, as Yahuweh Directs .... (VERY rare today, yes, VERY RARE).....

This works for the Church. When trying to establish a government on these principles you get socialism and dictators.

 

[Jermayn]

One issue though is that they aren't the ones who are going to get to decide on whether or not they are able-bodied. Someone else is going to decide their abilities for them, and my bet is that it would work similar to how people are determined to qualify for SSI disability, which often requires a lawyer and is typically denied the first time someone submits paperwork.

Yes, there are people who scam the system, but a large number of people who need help are going to be denied it simply because they will be judged by what they appear to be on the outside and/or if they have children.

The real issue then is weeding out the lazy from the poor.

 

[yeshuaslavejeff]

This works for the Church. When trying to establish a government on these principles you get socialism and dictators.

and ..... ?
(the problem with that is what exactly? )

 

[yeshuaslavejeff]

The real issue then is weeding out the lazy from the poor.

Jesus is the Perfect Gardener - THAT IS HIS JOB. Let HIM DO IT !
(let the assembly follow His Instructions Daily - then it is all handled properly)