6 Biblical Reasons Why Jesus Made Unfermented Wine (Grape Juice).

[unfinishedclay]

OP, I agree with you.

In John 2, how was the wine fermented at one day old?

 

[Bible Highlighter]

plus everyone was drunk so they wouldn't have known the difference

Right. My point exactly. If somebody was drunk, they would not know the difference between good wine or bad wine.

 

[Bible Highlighter]

OP, I agree with you.

In John 2, how was the wine fermented at one day old?

Indeed.
It makes sense to me.
I agree totally!

Anyways, may God bless you in all good you do for the Lord.

 

[faroukfarouk]

I find it hard to be dogmatic about such a subject, while I do indeed deplore alcohol abuse. I don't even drink wine myself. But having lived in several countries where there is no historical background of Prohibition, it is hard to see how worldwide Christians can be expected to be dogmatic when they don't share a US historical background.

 

[Der Alte]

They drank wine type #2 and Jesus made wine type #3. See post #20 for my mention of the three types of wines mentioned in the Bible.

Nonsense. I saw and responded to your previous post. You posted a lot of opinion, assumption and presupposition but no evidence. The wedding guests could not have been drinking unfermented grape juice. They had no way of preserving fresh grape juice for 7-8 months after the previous years grape harvest. So they had to have been drinking and feeling the effects of wine for the man to say "after they are well drunk" Would people feeling the effects of wine consider unfermented grape juice as the best wine?
Someone else has already addressed the Greek word translated "well drunk" it means exactly that "well drunk." How much grape juice does a person have to drink before they can't tell the difference between good grape juice and bad grape juice?

 

[prodromos]

No one can drink more than a couple of glasses of grape juice. It has far too much sugar to be able to comfortably drink more.

 

[Bible Highlighter]

So would this then make all stronger alcoholic beverages sinful?

For the Old Testament saint to drink a strong alcoholic beverage would be sinful because there were many verses that condemned them in drinking such a thing.
For the Old Testmanet saint was restricted in eating unclean animals. We are not restricted in such a way to eat unclean animals for God told Peter to eat them in a vision.

For the New Testament saint to drink a strong alcoholic beverage is not sinful if it is done so moderately and soberly and in privacy (so as not to make their brother to stumble). However, if they were to drink and became drunk, it would be a sin. Also, if a Christian (like myself) who knows the truth about alcohol in how it is a poison that destroys the body and how it is a drug that takes lives every single day and they were to drink it despite these facts with their conscience condemning them, it would be a sin to them. But a Christian does have a liberty to drink alcoholic beverages soberly and responsibly (as long as they do so in a way that does not make their brother to stumble).

The wine the Jews drank at the wedding at Cana (before Jesus arrived) was diluted with water whereby the alcoholic content was low and would not have gotten them drunk like our wines today. The wine that Jesus made was unfermented or freshly squeezed grape juice because it takes time for wine to ferment. Fermentation is a process of decay and death. The wine represents Christ's blood. In wine making, yeast interacts with the sugars of the grape to make wine. Yeast is symbolic of sin in the Bible. However, Jesus's blood was not sinful. It was pure and holy. Something that is sinful or dirty cannot clean anything. So the wine had to be unfermented wine or fresh grape juice.

 

[Bible Highlighter]

Nonsense. I saw and responded to your previous post. You posted a lot of opinion, assumption and presupposition but no evidence. The wedding guests could not have been drinking unfermented grape juice. They had no way of preserving fresh grape juice for 7-8 months after the previous years grape harvest. So they had to have been drinking and feeling the effects of wine for the man to say "after they are well drunk" Would people feeling the effects of wine consider unfermented grape juice as the best wine?
Someone else has already addressed the Greek word translated "well drunk" it means exactly that "well drunk." How much grape juice does a person have to drink before they can't tell the difference between good grape juice and bad grape juice?

Before I take time to address your rebuttal with Scripture and logic (which will have to wait until tomorrow, Lord willing), I have a few quick things to say:

Do you drink alcoholic beverages?
If so, then you would have an invested interest in defending your position.
For me, I believe a Christian can drink alcoholic beverages but they can only do so moderatly and soberly so as to not to make their brother to stumble.
"For the kingdom of God is not meat and drink; but righteousness, and peace, and joy in the Holy Ghost." (Romans 14:17).
For me personally, I cannot drink alcohol because my conscience would condemn me because I know too much about alcohol and how it destroys the body and people's lives. But for other believers, I believe they can drink (because they do not have the same knowledge that I do about alcohol whereby their conscience would condemn them).

Jesus made non-intoxicating wine or unfermented wine (fresh grape juice) because the wine represents His blood. Christ's blood was sinless. So it would be impossible for the wine to have yeast fermenting it because that would symbolize sin. Puffed up bread from yeast = sin. Just as fermented wine from yeast = sin. But Christ's blood was sinless. That should be all the proof you need. But there is more of course.

Anyways, may God bless you in all good you do for Him;
And may you be at peace no matter what I say here with God's Word.

 

[friend of]

I'm convinced by OP.

Jesus wouldn't want to get people drunk(er)

I just noticed something though, if the people were already drunk how would they be able to know that the wine was the best wine for last? When people get drunk their appreciation of their senses diminishes. That some of them could appreciate how good the one really was and they were probably really drunk at that time too is really awesome. The wine Christ made was sooo good that even in an inebriated state one could tell the difference.

 

[Ronald]

The story if the wedding at Cana states. He turned the water into wine, the same word used in all the other scriptures you presented.
After tasting the wine Jesus made, the man wondered why they saved the best for last? He claimed the good wine usually is brought out first and them later cheaper wine- after everyone had a few.
A little wine is good for the stomach.
Wine is actually good for you.
The Bible does NOT say don't drink, it says don't get drunk and also stay away from strong liquor.
Jesus uses wine symbolically with his blood sacrifice for the purpose to remember is sacrifice when we take communion. This is my body, symbolic as well. He is the bread life - not made from flour, nor is his hood equated with grape juice. Btw, grapes are not pure, they have impurities in the processing. Nothing is perfect on earth, when you look close enough, you can see the defects. Jesus is perfect.
Mormons believe this about the wine, it just isn't true.

 

[MyGivenNameIsKeith]

You disassemble your verses to permit your argument. While Jesus himself is sinless, I can agree with that. However you used Proverbs 31:4 yet I ask you to go further reading verses 5-7 as well.
4It is not for kings, O Lemuel, it is not for kings to drink wine; nor for princes strong drink:
5Lest they drink, and forget the law, and pervert the judgment of any of the afflicted.
6Give strong drink unto him that is ready to perish, and wine unto those that be of heavy hearts.
7Let him drink, and forget his poverty, and remember his misery no more.
It can be argued that on some occasions he would give intoxicating wine. Because it says so in the scriptures. It is easy to see why they offered it to him while he was on the cross, because it was in the Bible. Bible also says not to be a drunk alcoholic either so it would vary from case to case. As it does seem specific as to the circumstances. Being that they might have all been poor people, it would make sense that he gave them wine so that they would forget their poverty for the time being. They might have all been ready to die. It does say wine. And it doesn't exactly make him look bad for doing so. It still lines up either way you spin it.

 

[Bible Highlighter]

I'm not aware of any translation that says "grape juice" instead of wine.

Jesus drank wine. get over it.

So then you believe Jesus contributed to their drunkeness? Please read John 2:10.

 

[Bible Highlighter]

I'm convinced by OP.

Jesus wouldn't want to get people drunk(er)

Sounds like you agree with me here.

I just noticed something though, if the people were already drunk how would they be able to know that the wine was the best wine for last? When people get drunk their appreciation of their senses diminishes. That some of them could appreciate how good the one really was and they were probably really drunk at that time too is really awesome. The wine Christ made was sooo good that even in an inebriated state one could tell the difference.

Now it sounds like you don't agree with me. So which is it? Did Christ get them even more drunk?

 

[Bible Highlighter]

You disassemble your verses to permit your argument. While Jesus himself is sinless, I can agree with that. However you used Proverbs 31:4 yet I ask you to go further reading verses 5-7 as well.
4It is not for kings, O Lemuel, it is not for kings to drink wine; nor for princes strong drink:
5Lest they drink, and forget the law, and pervert the judgment of any of the afflicted.
6Give strong drink unto him that is ready to perish, and wine unto those that be of heavy hearts.
7Let him drink, and forget his poverty, and remember his misery no more.
It can be argued that on some occasions he would give intoxicating wine. Because it says so in the scriptures. It is easy to see why they offered it to him while he was on the cross, because it was in the Bible. Bible also says not to be a drunk alcoholic either so it would vary from case to case. As it does seem specific as to the circumstances. Being that they might have all been poor people, it would make sense that he gave them wine so that they would forget their poverty for the time being. They might have all been ready to die. It does say wine. And it doesn't exactly make him look bad for doing so. It still lines up either way you spin it.

No. It is impossible for the Scriptures to contradict themselves. It says wine is not for kings. Period. No need to go any farther than that (so as to change it).

As for Jesus on the cross and wine:

Well, Jesus refused to drink the wine mixed with gall (Matthew 27:34). This was obvious in the fact that it was intoxicating wine. Remember, Jesus said to his disciples at the Lord's supper (the night before),

"But I say unto you, I will not drink henceforth of this fruit of the vine, until that day when I drink it new with you in my Father's kingdom." (Matthew 26:29).

 

[Tutorman]

The Jesus-didn't-drink-wine crowd act like clowns. The idea of adults partying with grape juice is laughable. The idea of serving grape juice after alcohol is laughable. The idea of someone saying that later served grape juice is the better wine is laughable. Another laughable thing is, many anti-wine people are hypocrites enough to know why the good wine would be served first.

Hypocrites? Sorry, I mean their drinking experiences before they were "saved".... not.

They just want everyone to be as miserable as they are

 

[friend of]

Did Christ get them even more drunk?

No. I'm saying that, even in their intoxicated state, they were able to appreciate what Jesus had made.

When somebody is really drunk, taking another shot can be almost unnoticeable. It doesn't taste nearly as strong as when one began drinking.

So for them to notice the quality of the wine while in a state of inebriation, when they shouldn't have been able to distinguish the quality of any beverage on their palate wine to their state of mind, I think k it says something about what Jesus made for them.

It was noticeably a good wine. but I agree with you that it didn't have any further alcohol content , but when they drank it they had a clarity of mind to appreciate how good the gift was.

 

[Bible Highlighter]

The story if the wedding at Cana states. He turned the water into wine, the same word used in all the other scriptures you presented.
After tasting the wine Jesus made, the man wondered why they saved the best for last? He claimed the good wine usually is brought out first and them later cheaper wine- after everyone had a few.
A little wine is good for the stomach.
Wine is actually good for you.
The Bible does NOT say don't drink, it says don't get drunk and also stay away from strong liquor.
Jesus uses wine symbolically with his blood sacrifice for the purpose to remember is sacrifice when we take communion. This is my body, symbolic as well. He is the bread life - not made from flour, nor is his hood equated with grape juice. Btw, grapes are not pure, they have impurities in the processing. Nothing is perfect on earth, when you look close enough, you can see the defects. Jesus is perfect.
Mormons believe this about the wine, it just isn't true.

Okay, first off, I am not a Mormon. For truth is not determined by association of a particular religion. Catholics believe in the Trinity, but that does not mean the Trinity is not true just because they believe in it. Second, the word "wine" is defined at Dictionary.com as unfermented wine or fermented wine. Knowing which one is which makes all the difference in the world when you read your Bible. Three, in John 2:10, the guests were "...well drunk..." with the good wine at the wedding. So if they drank well of whatever substance they had at the wedding and it was intoxicating, then they would either be tipsy or drunk. Jesus making even more intoxicating wine would have definitely made them drunk and that would have been a sin. For drunkenness is condemned in the New Testament.

As for the symbol of Christ's blood being like wine: I did not make that up. The Scripture tells us that his blood is symbolic of the wine and that his body is symbolic of the bread in the last supper. Yeast in bread puffs up the bread. Yeast is a type of sin. This is in your Bible, as well. Also, yeast ferments wine. Again, yeast is a type of sin. The wine is symbolic of Christ's blood that cleanses us from sin. Nothing dirty can clean anything. So Christ's blood had to be pure. Scripture says there is a "pure blood of the grape." These are types or symbols or parallels. Jesus says the Scriptures testify of Him. I believe Him.

As for wine being good for you:

This is only a LITTLE bit of wine for stomach problems.
They did not have the luxury of buying purified bottled water at the local store.
Actually if you were to take alcohol and pour it into a dish that had dirty penny in it, the alcohol would clean the penny. Now, if you pour alcohol into your body, it does not know whether it is outside the body or inside the body. It seeks to destroy and that is what it does. It kills brain cells and effects judgment. There is no food value in wine or alcoholic beverages. Try reading the label next time. It is technically a poison that the body can simply fight off. Your immune system can tolerate this kind of mild poison. Also, it is highly addictive, as well. This can lead to drinking one more and then another and then another leading to drunkenness (Which is a sin). People die from alcohol every day. Drinking and driving is a big killer here in the States.

 

[friend of]

And guys just because Jesus made it instantaneously without fermentation does not mean that it has to be common grape juice either.

It was neither alcoholic wine nor was it the common grape juice that they drank rather, it was something new. A drink that Jesus made.

 

[friend of]

Jesus did come to serve not to be served, and this miracle proved that!

 

[Bible Highlighter]

No. I'm saying that, even in their intoxicated state, they were able to appreciate what Jesus had made.

When somebody is really drunk, taking another shot can be almost unnoticeable. It doesn't taste nearly as strong as when one began drinking.

So for them to notice the quality of the wine while in a state of inebriation, when they shouldn't have been able to distinguish the quality of any beverage on their palate wine to their state of mind, I think k it says something about what Jesus made for them.

It was noticeably a good wine. but I agree with you that it didn't have any further alcohol content , but when they drank it they had a clarity of mind to appreciate how good the gift was.

So were they in an intoxicated state when they drank Christ's wine or not?
I am not sure what you mean here.