You did not really offer anything substantial in regards to Proverbs 31:4, my friend.
This is very simple.
Jesus is a king (Acts of the Apostles 17:7).
Yet, Proverbs 31:4 says wine is not for kings.
If Jesus drank intoxicating wine that Proverbs 31 talks about it, He would have broken God's Word.
However, that is not possible. Jesus obeyed God the Father and Scripture.
It advises kings
not to drink wine, it does not forbid kings
from drinking wine.
Nothing in God's word contradicts, not a thing. If what you're saying is true, then that means in the verse I linked, that you again have failed to talk about, where God permits us to buy and drink strong drink, and wine (both alcoholic) would be wrong.
So, either the first five books of the bible are wrong, or the passage you're quoting here is wrong. Because understand, that if this verse means as you're saying it does, then there is a contradiction.
Or you're taking it out of context to mean something other than what it means, and that is that it's not wise to be led astray by alcohol, especially if you're a king. Being led astray, doesn't mean simply drinking it. Being led astray, is being constantly under the effect of it, constant drunkenness. Being led astray, is to lack self control, and thereby be enslaved to it. Being led astray is to give up the truth of God, for the lie of walking in darkness, and drunkenness is darkness. You can very easily drink of it with self control, thereby
not being enslaved to it, and not getting drunk.
If you have self-control that is.
More importantly, if Solomon is inferring what you're saying he is, then how can he (one book away) write this -
Ecclesiastes 9:7 - Go thy way, eat thy bread with joy, and drink thy wine with a merry heart; for God now accepteth thy works.
You can't say that it's juice, because again, there's two words referring one to wine, and one to non-alcoholic juice. It's the alcoholic wine that is being used here, and juice never once in the scripture is referenced to make the heart merry or glad. Wine on the other hand, constantly is, in several different verses by several different writers.
Total abstinence from things they got themselves was the point. They did not drink both grape juice (unfermented wine) and intoxicating wine (fermented wine) and bread so as to KNOW that He was the Lord their GOD. Nazarites made a vow that did not allow for them to even have grapes itself. But why? Why would God forbid certain men to not have grapes? Because they were supposed to be holy and set apart. They were a picture or symbol that pointed to the cleansing blood of Jesus. Jesus was the One who could provide us with the pure blood of the grape (i.e. His blood) to cleanse us from sin. Yeast is used in wine making. Yet, in Scripture, "yeast" is a type of sin. So you cannot have Jesus making intoxicating wine, unless you ignore or change the symbols or types that the Bible gives us about yeast and sin.
No. Deuteronomy 32:14 is clear that it is talking about real juice here that they had. Verse 12 says that God led them. Deuteronomy 32:33 is also talking about real wine, as well.
It says, in verses 37-38,
37 "And he shall say, Where are their gods, their rock in whom they trusted,
38 Which did eat the fat of their sacrifices, and drank the wine of their drink offerings? let them rise up and help you, and be your protection."
It's talking about THEIR drink offerings. The bad guys drink offerings of wine offered to their false sacrifices. So it is talking about real wine here.
Not all of God's commands actually hit you over the head in saying that they are a command. Whenever God's Word tells you to do something... that is a command. Sort of like when a father tells his son to go to his room because he was bad. The father did not need to say to his son that it was a command. The very instructions themselves are a command. It would only not be a command if God's Word gave us a following clause or exception saying it was optional. But seeing you have no Scripture that gives us an exception (It is a command).
God's commands, that we're to do, are only given in Torah (the first five books of the bible, or better known as the instruction found in Exodus-Deuteronomy).
All throughout the bible after that, all you really have are people shedding light on the depth and intent of each of these commands, but
nowhere else are there
new commands being given. In Torah God makes it clear, that drinking alcohol is not a sin.
Abusing alcohol, is a sin.
Jesus is also our Priest until the resurrection. He's before God right now, He offered up Himself, and now He's mediating for us to God. My point is, He's before God in the heavenly tabernacle. He cannot drink wine right now according to Torah, because the priests that did so, were to be destroyed by God. It's something that makes them unclean ceremonially. It's why Jesus said He won't drink of it, until He comes back. Why? Because, He'll no longer be in the tabernacle before God, mediating for us. We'll be the priests ourselves, and then we can no longer drink so long as we're in the tabernacle.
If what you're saying is true, then it implies that sin is something to be avoided, until we get into the 1000 year millennial reign. It's saying that Jesus thinks alcohol is a sin, and should be avoided. Until after His kingdom is established on earth, then it's free to sin. No, He's referencing the law that I just described that God gave to Aaron.
Deuteronomy 14:26 is talking about intoxicating drink. They surely were allowed to buy and store intoxicating beverages. But that is a whole another matter in what they did with it. I believe the Israelites mixed or diluted the wine so as to drink it. They used the undiluted wine to ease pain from war wounds, to help upset stomachs, etc. Only barbarians would drink strong intoxciating wine or beverages. The Israelites diluted their wine with water in order to drink it.
Wine mixed (diluted) with Water Verses:
Revelation 14:10 says,
“The same shall drink of the wine of the wrath of God, which is poured out without mixture into the cup of his indignation; and he shall be tormented with fire and brimstone in the presence of the holy angels, and in the presence of the Lamb”
(Contrast this with Psalms 75:8)
1 Timothy 5:23 says,
"Drink no longer water, but use a little wine for thy stomach's sake and thine often infirmities."
Proverbs 9:2 (NIV) says,
"She has prepared her meat and mixed her wine; she has also set her table."
Proverbs 23:31 - Do not look at wine when it is red.
John 19:34 - Blood and water mingled together from Christ's side; And Scripture essentially says the wine in the Lord's supper is representative of Jesus's blood (See Matthew 26:27-29).
Isaiah 1:22 NIV
“Your silver has become dross, your choice wine is diluted with water.”
your silver has become dross (your beauty is now ugly, your valuables have become tainted.) it's a reference to their goodness being made wicked of. Their goodness being tainted, just as when good wine is diluted.
Dross is what you purge
from the metal before you cast it into coins or bars, etc. It's not as you're implying below this text. It's the impurities that build up. It's the things that have to be removed before the metal is purified enough to need to be mixed for strength to be cast into bars or coins. It's the garbage. This verse is pointing out how what was redeemable, has become unredeemable. How what was once beautiful, has now been reduced to worthlessness. Just as choice wine, that they
once evidently had, that is now mixed with water, and is diluted. Note how also, that this choice wine, that is mixed with something to water it down is equated to
worthlessness. Meaning that they placed value on the wine
not diluted.
Pure silver, which would be too soft to be durable, is mixed with 5-20% copper in an alloy known as sterling silver.
How silver is made - material, making, history, used, processing, industry
If one were to take note: One has to mix copper in silver in order for it to be durable so as to be used. Just as one must use water in their mixture of wine to use it.
So the idea here is that the silver (mixed with copper) they use has become so dross (or watered down it is then cheap. Just as the wine (mixed with water) is diluted even more whereby it is cheap wine (for the times).
Wine could be carried in an undiluted state within leather skin like bottles and then later mixed with water for use. Timothy was told to use a little wine in his water because of the infirmities in his stomach. Paul was telling him to use Biblical wine so as to resolve a medical issue.
Extra Biblical Sources on how wine was mixed with water:
Are you kidding me? You used the talmud? ...
Read what that book says about you, and read what that book says about Jesus. The talmud is a worthless resource. That proves that you are not reading your scriptures, and are scouring the internet for verses that support your perspective. Look, I will respond to the rest of the post I didn't but I've got to go help a family friend move something. I'll get back to you soon though. We may never agree, but you've got to stop typing in to google "bible verses against alcohol."[/quote]
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