29 & Never Dated

[DragonFox91]

Getting home from work is a trigger. It just feels so alone. It can take a moment to transition to evening activities.

I am sad. When will it get better?

 

[VCR-2000]

I'm a 28 year old celibate virgin who never dated and who turns 29 in a few weeks. Life isn't too bad.

Maybe when I was younger, I desperately wanted a girlfriend. But a few things have lowered my interest in finding a girlfriend or dating.

Society. If you are a man who does "girly" stuff, then women might not like that. Women might also not like young men or poor men. Women might not like unemployed men. Women might not like short men. Women might not like colored men. Heck, some women declare themselves lesbians and don't like any man. Some of these dislikes could be personal, but some societies also promote these dislikes by portraying these types of men in bad ways or through stereotypes. So if you are a poor man, you have to convince a woman to date you, despite a whole society persuading or teaching her to not date you. It'a a lot of effort compared to a rich white man convincing a woman.

Societal expectations. Once you do date or get a girlfriend, you are likely to have to fulfill a certain role or stereotypical role. You may have to defend the girlfriend, but she doesn't necessarily have to defend you. You may have to get a job or a higher paying job, even though she might not. You may have to compliment her body, which is an issue if you don't like lust. You may have to "compete" for her, though she probably won't be competing for you. Whether these expectations are logical or not, they may seem illogical or too much for some men. And they definitely seem sexist. Some societies may promote these expectations for the sake of society rather than for the sake of the individual. For example, a woman should not be employed but rather stay home and care for a child. Of course children are important. But if dating is a method of grooming men into fathers, then some men might not be initially interested in dating.

Transwomen. I feel transgender women have existed for as long as there have been born intersex. If I do decide to date, then it would ultimately be for procreation, but I believe that most transwomen can not produce offspring. Even fertile transwomen may have a biology that can not safely produce offspring. So I don't have much interest in dating transwomen because I don't date for entertainment.

A transwoman may have been easy to identify in the past (with the exception of intersex who are born with both male and female features.) But nowadays with modern surgery technology, a transwoman can look exactly like a ciswoman. One of the few ways of discerning the difference would be impregnation, but I'd only have sex after marriage. I won't risk marrying a transwoman. Other methods of discerning can be talking with the woman's family or reviewing her medical records. These require less effort but still require above-average effort and complicates my dating experience.

There are even some transwomen who aim to "pass" as ciswomen. They will take many measures to make sure that nobody can discern their transgenderism. They may destroy medical records or have private surgeries in foreign lands. They may live far away from family or not talk about family around dates. And her effort to hide her transgenderism might be greater and stronger than a man's effort to uncover it, simply because the concealment might provide more social acceptance and less endangerment.


Prostitutes and criminals. Some women date solely for survival or profit. They get free food. If they aim for sex after the date, then they also get a free place to sleep for a night. Food and shelter have value: just look at the cost of a night at a hotel. There is no way to discern if a woman is a prostitute, especially if she lives in a society that does not punish prostitution. I would not want to have sex until after marriage, but a prostitute might try to convince or persuade me to have sex, simply for free shelter or to increase the chance of another date night.

Another issue is that some prostitutes commit or facilitate crime. They may lure a man into an unsafe area where he gets robbed. Or a prostitute may steal a man's expensive watch. The chance of crime might increase if she convinces the man to consume alcohol. In places where prostitution is illegal, dating can be a tool to disguise prostitution.

Do you believe that societal expectations are because of God or because of sin?
That sort of sounds like giving up the search something good just because some bad person corrupted it. Just because Satan ruined what God called good, it is now inherently bad?

 

[VCR-2000]

B/c it decreases the size of the pool. When I'm swiping on Tinder & it seems more than half have a Trans or Pride flag or something dumb like that, that's a problem. One of the reasons I don't really bother w/ dating sites anymore, TBH.

The pool is even smaller when you consider that many if not most Christian women are not married-minded anymore, they are having fun and having sex with a boyfriend or two while more of us guys are missing out on it totally.

That's why if I do meet somebody, I would rather have sex sooner than waiting all the way to a hypothetical marriage, do you really blame anyone for that? God has allowed Satan and his army to screw the social dynamic to the point where it is the best deal I can receive at this point, and this current dynamic and state of society is the result of that. If God wants to regulate the biological heterosexual desire in a way that he still expects us of this in light of a turn of the circumstances in an upside-down of society, frankly that is dictator-esque and he created us with something that we can't fulfill.

And the other twist is when it is all over, when you die and go to Heaven, there will be no more sex, relationships and women anymore, and every thought about it would be gone. Sounds like a ghostly existence or being taken to another planet and being lobotomized.

 

[Sketcher]

Why would a Christian man be worried about lesbians, transwomen, and prostitutes if he’s pursuing Christian women?

Well, if you've been very unlucky with women your whole life, your mind is very attuned to the possibility that horrible luck will continue when you think you've met somebody. All three are ways that horrible luck would manifest.

 

[bèlla]

Well, if you've been very unlucky with women your whole life, your mind is very attuned to the possibility that horrible luck will continue when you think you've met somebody. All three are ways that horrible luck would manifest.

An omission of luck doesn’t diminish the parameters God set. None of which are echoed in that statement. That’s the result of paranoia.

 

[Sketcher]

An omission of luck doesn’t diminish the parameters God set. None of which are echoed in that statement. That’s the result of paranoia.

It doesn't diminish God's parameters, but you never know who's going to be coming to church either. A good church will attract people of all walks. You're likelier to meet people in those three categories in very non-Christian situations, but unfortunately God doesn't promise us protection from people who claim to be good Christian women but really aren't.

 

[Will Joseph]

Do you believe that societal expectations are because of God or because of sin?
That sort of sounds like giving up the search something good just because some bad person corrupted it. Just because Satan ruined what God called good, it is now inherently bad?

The bible says that some men need a wife but that some men don't. I don't think I need one, at least not now.

I don't really see much good or bad in the issue. If anything, it's just a matter of preference.

Women are humans and not objects, so a date is not always good. A woman can be having a period during a date, and bite a man's head off. A woman can be scared of the man, where the entire date becomes uncomfortable. A woman can have bad breath during a date, laughing and talking a lot, to the man's detriment. A woman can bring a child along during a date, where the child harasses the man. Or a woman could have a personality where she wants only the most expensive meals and transportation, destroying a man's wallet. Of course there may be good dates, but there are bad dates too. And the bad dates are not a result of sin but rather of women being humans: women are not objects.

If a man needs a date, then he can go for it. But if he doesn't, then he can live a single life.

 

[bèlla]

.

 

[Sketcher]

As a man, you’re unlikely to encounter women—as a norm—who grasp what you’re saying. Most women can’t relate to your previous statement. Nor are they connected with men in the same boat.

For me as a woman, a heterosexual man contemplating those things is odd. Christian or not. It isn’t their forte or on their radar. They don’t worry about being duped.

I talk to a lot of straight men seeking companions. None have ever echoed the same. It never crosses their lips. To be honest it sounds bizarre.

Well, the manifestations vary. I'm honestly a lot more concerned about bringing somebody home only to find out she had a fling with one of my unsanctified relatives than any of those three.

Still, each of those three happens sometimes. I don't envy any of these poor souls who married these truly horrible people:

I was married with 2 kids when I realized I'm gay (opinion) - CNN
Shocked Husband Discovers His Wife was a Man After 19 Years of Marriage
Surgeon divorces model and finds out that she was leading a secret life

When you see someone who has a good chance of being more socially capable than you get victimized like any of these guys, you ask yourself how can you protect yourself. And when you don't know how to do that in a socially advantageous way, I can see how the concern would be compounded. So if a guy fixates on one of these rather than what I'm more concerned about, I can understand that.

 

[bèlla]

Well, the manifestations vary. I'm honestly a lot more concerned about bringing somebody home only to find out she had a fling with one of my unsanctified relatives than any of those three.

But realistically, the likelihood of doing that is small. Why would you cling to it? If you’re plugged in with God how do you end up with someone in the closet? When men approach me He starts talking. He’s warned me about deception, wrong motives, hidden feelings, and shadow things I couldn’t see. I’m not alone in that.

Which suggests bigger problems. Unlike you, I don’t render them poor souls. I believe in owning my mistakes. If I made a poor decision so be it. Blaming the other person doesn’t excuse me from an absence of discernment.

You shouldn’t assume they’re more capable. Many are driven by emotions and dysfunction in matters of the heart. They’re desperate for companionship. When that’s in the drivers seat a crash is likely.

It isn’t about protecting yourself but the necessity of being balanced and sober-minded. A lot of relational mistakes could be prevented if frenzy wasn’t the catalyst. The bible doesn’t call them poor souls. They’re deemed unwise and foolish.

Ownership is a hallmark of maturity. There’s no need to fixate on a minority population with limited representation in Christian circles. I’ve never needed to worry about gay or bisexual men. Neither appeal.

I present all possibilities to the Lord. But I’m not wedded to them. It doesn’t have to work. I don’t force the issue if its the wrong fit. My destiny was already assigned. Everyone who believed I was meant for them was incorrect. God had the final word.

He hasn’t given us a spirit if fear. That’s all this is.

 

[Sketcher]

But realistically, the likelihood of doing that is small. Why would you cling to it?

I wish I could say that with conviction, but I can't. These relatives have high body counts, and we did not grow up in major metropolitan areas. It can be a small world around here. Obviously I'm not going to date anyone that they've taken home for Easter, but that still leaves a lot of people.

If you’re plugged in with God how do you end up with someone in the closet? When men approach me He starts talking. He’s warned me about deception, wrong motives, hidden feelings, and shadow things I couldn’t see. I’m not alone in that.

Good question, the answer is likely similar to why my first college mentor's wife walked out on him. She hasn't said anything about being gay herself, but she outright rebelled against the faith she had converted to. I don't see why he wouldn't have been plugged into God at the time he married her, I was at that wedding. He was a campus ministry leader, who went on to become a pastor. Yet, with all the deep knowledge of what was in her heart and all the foreknowledge God had, and all the means he had at his disposal to warn my mentor that marrying her would be a bad idea, I have no reason to believe that he did it. Similarly, a friend of mine much more recently had gone through a divorce after a few short years of enduring abuse by his wife, he still has physical ailments stemming from that abuse. When it had gotten to the point that I could no longer help them to fix things, I asked him if there was anything in hindsight he should have picked up on before they married. No, she just flipped a switch. And they'd gone through pre-marital counseling by a pastor. Why didn't God, with all the deep knowledge he has of what was in her heart and all his foreknowledge, and the means at his disposal to warn my friend before they got married, warn him?

Which suggests bigger problems. Unlike you, I don’t render them poor souls. I believe in owning my mistakes. If I made a poor decision so be it. Blaming the other person doesn’t excuse me from an absence of discernment.

My issue is that the level of discernment necessary to weed these people out is rare. If most people's discernment is say, at a 5, and the level of deception is at an 8, how can I fault them for that. I would also say that infatuation at the beginning stages of a relationship knocks that discernment down further.

You shouldn’t assume they’re more capable. Many are driven by emotions and dysfunction in matters of the heart. They’re desperate for companionship. When that’s in the drivers seat a crash is likely.

It isn’t about protecting yourself but the necessity of being balanced and sober-minded. A lot of relational mistakes could be prevented if frenzy wasn’t the catalyst. The bible doesn’t call them poor souls. They’re deemed unwise and foolish.

If there were clear reports that these men were sinning or at least not living up to the wisdom of Proverbs in all three stories, I could fully agree, but I don't see that evidence, aside from the man whose third marriage was to the transsexual. He should have stayed single after the first one didn't work out. Besides that, the articles don't tell us where Biblically, these guys messed up. In the case of the doctor and the secret escort, I would say that following God with physical boundaries risks leaving you more open to that kind of cheating. Kiss her on the cheek after the date, go home, and she's free to turn those tricks. This isn't to say that we shouldn't follow God here, but rather bad things can happen to good people who do things right.

Ownership is a hallmark of maturity.

I won't disagree with that generally, but when the mistakes that these guys made in determining whether or not to date and marry these people are not apparent (again, this is least so in the case of the man with the transsexual), how can really take ownership of that in a social way? When the mistakes are clear, you can take ownership and make a plan of defense. When they're not, you can't really do that unless you're going to claim the mistake is trusting people. You can take ownership of that and choose to not trust anyone, but that's not a social way to do it. That's how people end up like me so far.

There’s no need to fixate on a minority population with limited representation in Christian circles. I’ve never needed to worry about gay or bisexual men. Neither appeal.

You might have good gaydar. Not everyone does.

He hasn’t given us a spirit if fear. That’s all this is.

But we still need to be aware. The male character in Proverbs 7:6-27 didn't have fear either, but look where that got him.

 

[bèlla]

The pool is even smaller when you consider that many if not most Christian women are not married-minded anymore, they are having fun and having sex with a boyfriend or two while more of us guys are missing out on it totally.

Christian men do the same. The only difference is women aren’t complaining about the absence of virginal men. That’s a male thing.

You bring this up a lot. It’s like you’re upset she’s doing something you can’t. I suspect the bigger issue is the one you won’t admit. The majority don’t expect virginity in men your age and it doesn’t lessen their chances. That bothers you.

The reason it bugs you is because it’s tied to a reward. You feel deserving of a wife because you waited. Not because it’s the right thing to do. That’s the wrong mindset.

 

[bèlla]

Good question, the answer is likely similar to why my first college mentor's wife walked out on him.

Religious people have the greatest blindspots. They rely on their knowledge, training, etc. and can’t see the forest for the trees. Look how many gasp in shock when a well-known person falls from grace. It isn’t surprising. They’re human. They have failings and sins like the rest. But people forget that. They praise them like they’re demigods and hang on their words. Deception usually follows.

My issue is that the level of discernment necessary to weed these people out is rare. If most people's discernment is say, at a 5, and the level of deception is at an 8, how can I fault them for that. I would also say that infatuation at the beginning stages of a relationship knocks that discernment down further.

Liking someone doesn’t make you dumb or clueless. Being desperate to find a husband or wife and gravitating to the ‘sure thing’ will. A lot of Christians are afraid of being alone. When you operate from that place you make a lot of mistakes. You’re led by your feelings.

But when the spirit is in the drivers seat you see the things people camouflage or deny. I’ve never been abused or bled dry. I’m determined to see what’s in front of me. That begins with telling the truth and not making excuses.

Everyone has weaknesses. Just because you believe in God doesn’t mean you’re wise or discriminating. A lot of people lack commonsense and fewer possess wisdom or discernment. When you have all three in tow your life reflects it.

You think I haven’t had men try to pull the wool over my eyes? They say she’s nice and proper. Let me throw this spiel her way. Some try the Casanova route, mister cool, the good Christian guy, and so on. I see through all of them. Want to know why?

I know my sex. If he was God’s gift to women someone would have snagged him. He’s available for a reason. He won’t tell me the truth. I pay attention to what he says and doesn’t say. The way he responds reveals his experience, desirability, and the caliber of women he dates.

It doesn’t take long to size him up or pinpoint the kind of woman he’d attract. If he’s unaccustomed to women like me it shows. If he’s trying to level up that’s evident. If he’s eager or desperate it spills out. Conversation is frequently their stumbling block. The second is lifestyle. My analysis is swift. I usually know immediately or within a day or two.

I don’t give men the access they receive from other women. I cut to the chase. Nor do I allow them to beat around the bush. We’re not conversing for weeks. I give time to viable candidates. Not maybes. That’s how I avoid problems.

I’m not into chances. I mate for fit. We must fit each other well. I don’t care about potential or what’s underway to some degree. I care about what he’s done up until the point we met. I scrutinize as-is. That’s what you’re agreeing to.

I’m not making a vow to God for someone I don’t believe in. If I need to convince myself he’s the wrong one. I should have certainty. That doesn’t mean I don’t like him or lack feelings. But that isn’t how I choose. My scrutiny isn’t emotional. That isn’t true for most.

It isn’t merely a question of gaydar. It’s knowing when to pull the plug. People stay in sinking ships too long. They equate wishful thinking with faith. The majority have signs before the altar not to go forward. But they’ve invested time and don’t want to start again. So they stay put.

The notion that lesbians, prostitutes, and transwomen are concerns for Christian men is indicative of limited engagement with the opposite sex and experience. If you’re in the habit of interacting with women in the Christian pool you’d realize it isn’t an issue. We’re not overrun with either.

Someone’s calamity doesn’t spell doom for the rest unless you believe it. There’s numerous examples on the site of people who shouldn’t be in relationships. But the heart is deceitful. They won’t admit their lack of readiness, problems, instability, or need to heal. That yields a better relationship and prospects.

 

[bèlla]

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[DragonFox91]

This morning started out rough. I listened to some sermons during work & that helped. I pray God works soon.

The local fish star says my water doesn't have anything toxic in it anymore & I can add fish now. I think having a fish will help this period in the evening when I come home from work & it just feels so empty. Yes, I have a snail right now & I really like having it, but bettas are receptive to their owners, my snail really isn't.

The pool is even smaller when you consider that many if not most Christian women are not married-minded anymore, they are having fun and having sex with a boyfriend or two while more of us guys are missing out on it totally.

That's why if I do meet somebody, I would rather have sex sooner than waiting all the way to a hypothetical marriage, do you really blame anyone for that? God has allowed Satan and his army to screw the social dynamic to the point where it is the best deal I can receive at this point, and this current dynamic and state of society is the result of that. If God wants to regulate the biological heterosexual desire in a way that he still expects us of this in light of a turn of the circumstances in an upside-down of society, frankly that is dictator-esque and he created us with something that we can't fulfill.

And the other twist is when it is all over, when you die and go to Heaven, there will be no more sex, relationships and women anymore, and every thought about it would be gone. Sounds like a ghostly existence or being taken to another planet and being lobotomized.

Paragraph 1: agree x1000
Paragraph 2: So you want to be part of what you apparently don't like? That seems 2 face to me. Stand true to your values & your morals (& God's too!) I won't lie, I have similar thoughts, but when I think about it, I could never forgive myself. You can't change it once it happens (tho some people are convinced by this 'born again virgin' nonsense 'hey if I sin Jesus can just make it better!')
Paragraph 3: As I've pointed out in the past, there's a good discussion/debate thread on this in the Mature or Divorced section (don't remember which).

No thoughts on this from anyone? Unfortunately I didn't see her at all today ( ), tho her car was there. Very frustrating.

Most people chose not to return to office. I wonder why she chose not to....

No car there today. She must work from the office some days, work from home the other days like a lot of people. Very frustrating. Apparently asking to say 'hi' to a girl is too much to ask for.......

 

[DragonFox91]

I feel awful right now. When will it change? It's never changed.

Something must be wrong w/ me.

I failed.

 

[bèlla]

.

 

[DragonFox91]

Why are you frustrated when you know nothing about her? You don’t even know if she’s a believer. You heard she was single and works in your office. That’s not a lot to go on.

You’re doing the same thing you did with the girl at church. Getting upset because you didn’t see her. Relax. Everything isn’t do or die.

B/c I'm not even meeting singles so at least it's someone to try talking to.

Also I haven't forgotten about that girl at church......

 

[bèlla]

.

 

[DragonFox91]

I am sad

You’ll calm down if you’re interacting even if goes nowhere?

What's nowhere? A friendship would be huge. (Most recent real female friendship w/ a woman my age was long-distance & ended a couple years ago. Even that helped a lot)