1050 New Testament Commands vs 613 Old Testament Commands, which do we follow?

[alex2165]

OLD AND NEW TESTAMENTS ARE INSEPARABLE​

Old and New Testaments are inseparable and undividable, they are one continues line, one continues story, one continues history, and one continues life, and there is no any sort of division or differences between them.

Whatever has been declared in the Old Testament, Jesus Christ declared it in His Message of Gospel, and whatever has been set up in the Old Testament, Jesus Christ also set up in His New Message of Gospel.

Jesus announced numerous times that He came not from Himself, and speaks not from Himself, and does miracles not from Himself, but does all of it from His Father. John in his Evangeline quoted these statements of Jesus Christ more than any other Evangeline.

By such statements He also wanted us to know that He came not on His Own accord, but from His Father Who sent Him. In this point view Jesus indeed came from the Old Testament, from the genealogy of Abraham, Isaac, Jacob, Judah, and David, and from the prophets of GOD who prophesied about Him long before His coming.

And Jesus also declared that He did not come to abolish the Law, but came to fulfill it. If the Old Law is obsolete, why then Jesus have to fulfill it? Would it make any sense? Who would spend a large amount of money for the old thing when the decision was made to replace it with a new thing?

The reason is that the Old Law never been obsolete or abolished, it always remains intact and active, and relevant forever for all times and for all generations to come. And even in the last days the Heavenly Temple and the Ark will ascend from Heaven, and the nations will bring their gifts to Jerusalem and will worship the Lord in His Heavenly temple as it was done before.

And as a matter of fact, Jesus Himself never brought with Him anything new, but constantly quoted Old Testament, and urged people of Israel to obey and to fulfill all spiritual commandments of the Law, and even in some instances physical rituals of the Law of Moses, until His physical death on the cross, and 70 years later when the Temple was destroyed and it was impossible to maintain any longer the physical rituals of the Law.

After His death only Spiritual Part (Spiritual Commandments) of the Law of Moses remains active, and become fully activated as the Gospel of Christ. And this Spiritual Part of the Law of Moses and became the Good News, the Evangeline, the Gospel of Christ, and the New Message, as we call it today.

Jesus Christ always has been INSPIRED by the Old Testament, and the INSPIRATION of the Law of Moses and the prophets gave Jesus spiritual boost in all His sermons, speeches, and announcement.

And by this He also proved that it is not hard to fulfill the Law of Moses and the prophets by obeying all their commandments, because He Himself done it in flesh as a mortal human being, and so for the rest of the world it also counts.

And this is the Message of Jesus Christ, to obey spiritual Laws of the Law of Moses and the prophets, and He presented the Law of Moses as improved, refined, and perfected Law, because He presented it as completely Spiritual Law, which is called Gospel, or Evangeline, which means Good News.

But the physical rituals have been abolished except few. So Jesus brought up and gave us not a New different or separated Law or Testament, but improved, refined, and perfected to a higher level Old Law, which is completely Spiritual Law based on the Spiritual commandments of the Law of Moses, which is the Gospel of Christ.

Some people in their arguments presented verses indicating that the glory of the “New Testament” is better than the glory of the Old Testament. And this is true, because glory of the Old Testament is the one special glory which presents physical ritual and spiritual commandments in its context.

And the glory of the Gospel of Christ is the other glory, because it is the Spiritual glory of the Law of Moses presented to us by Jesus Christ in His New Message, the Gospel, and glory of Jesus Christ better, because it is completely Spiritual and based on the spiritually of the Old Testament.
Just like left hand has its own glory, and the right hand has its own glory, but they both attached to the same body.

There is no Old Testament and the New testament, it is One continues Law of GOD, and there is no any difference between Law of Moses and the Gospel of Christ, except that Jesus Christ took only Spiritual Commandments of the Law of Moses and gave it to us, leaving behind the physical ritual which are no longer serve their purpose.

It is the same glory of GOD and His Son Jesus Christ, They Both gave us the Law of Moses and all its spiritual commandments and statutes, and there is nothing else beside it.

 

[LarryP2]

"And this is the Message of Jesus Christ, to obey spiritual Laws of the Law of Moses and the prophets, and He presented the Law of Moses as improved, refined, and perfected Law, because He presented it as completely Spiritual Law, which is called Gospel, or Evangeline, which means Good News.

But the physical rituals have been abolished except few. So Jesus brought up and gave us not a New different or separated Law or Testament, but improved, refined, and perfected to a higher level Old Law, which is completely Spiritual Law based on the Spiritual commandments of the Law of Moses, which is the Gospel of Christ."

Any argument that Christians must keep any part of the Mosaic Law is just dishonest about the Old Testament law, and indicates a severe misunderstanding about its applications. There are 613 Commandments, all of which are equally important, and all of them must be kept. Or none of them. There is NO distinction in the Mosaic Law between "ritualistic" and "moral" law. Sabbattarian Christians make that distinction purely out of convenience. They have picked a few of the 613 Commandments at random, based on the ones that happen to tickle their fancy. That is dishonest.

Out of the mandatory 613 Mosaic laws, Sabbattarians pick and choose a handful that happily coincide with their overall goals of preening self-righteousness over other Christians. If you understand the way the Mosaic law works, all they have merely done is make themselves looks foolish. The Apostles repeatedly denounced such behavior as "Judaizing." The Apostles were experts on the Mosaic Law. Sabbattarians are not.

For Christians, Colossians 2:16-17 means what it says.

For Christians, the AD 50 Council of Jerusalem means what it says: Gentile Christians shall not be bound by the Mosaic law.

Christians began worshiping on Sunday no later than 1 week after the Resurrection. Christ then Ascended on a Sunday. The Day of Pentecost, the Church's Birthday was on a Sunday. It would have been BIZARRE if the early Christians had continued to keep the Sabbath, given the impact those three events clearly would have had on them.

The argument for keeping just one commandment out of the 613 of the Mosaic Law simply denigrates the obvious meaning of the crucifixion, the Resurrection, the Ascension and the Day of Pentecost. It is a theory of "Partial Atonement." It is an argument that one must keep the Mosaic Law, because Christ is not enough.

If you want to keep the Sabbath and have some integrity, you need to go through the full-scale conversion to Judaism that is required. For an unconverted Gentile to keep the Sabbath is such a serious offense, it requires the imposition of the Death Penalty.

 

[alex2165]

SABBATH DAY


Genesis 2.2-3
2.And by the Seventh Day GOD completed His work which He had done, and He rested on the Seventh Day from all His work which He had done.

3.The GOD blessed the Seventh Day and sanctified it, because in it He rested from all His work which GOD had created and made.

Concerning Sabbath, I believe that according to the verse above, Sabbath is the universal ritual and holiday for all humanity to observe.

GOD Himself rested on it, blessed it, and sanctified it, which means made it holy. And it was done even before humans were created, and long before the Law of Moses, and because of it, Sabbath should be the Day of Rest and the Day of Holy congregation to all human beings who believe and respect their GOD, their Creator.

Of course we can also and observe Sunday, and while there is no such law or commandment to congregate on Sunday in memory of Christ’s resurrection, we still can give our respect and to the Son of GOD by having Sunday’s worship. Above all, we can honor Christ at any day of the week if we want it and congregate in His name at any time, but I think that the Sabbath shall be observe first. Jesus Christ Himself observed and never violated it.

Are we the spiritual children of Abraham? Yes we are.

To Galatians 3.29
29.And if you belong to Christ, then you are Abraham’s offspring, heirs according to the promise.

And if we are spiritual children of Abraham, this means we are his descendants as the physical Jews, but in spiritual term. And like the physical descendants of Abraham received the Law concerning Sabbath, same Law as an exception applies and to us, just like Passover of Christ, and like Baptism of John and Christ, so and the Sabbath also belongs and to us.

We cannot honor Christ and dishonor His Father, They Both observe Their Sabbath.

 

[LarryP2]

"Concerning Sabbath, I believe that according to the verse above, Sabbath is the universal ritual and holiday for all humanity to observe."

That point of view, unfortunately for you, was unequivocally rejected by the Apostles at the AD 50 Council of Jerusalem.

 

[alex2165]

Where you found this concil of Apostles who rejected the Sabbath Day? If it in the Bible please present the place.

 

[Hentenza]

Where you found this concil of Apostles who rejected the Sabbath Day? If it in the Bible please present the place.

Acts 15
4 When they arrived at Jerusalem, they were received by the church and the apostles and the elders, and they reported all that God had done with them. 5 But some of the sect of the Pharisees who had believed stood up, saying, “It is necessary to circumcise them and to direct them to observe the Law of Moses.”

Acts 15
10 Now therefore why do you put God to the test by placing upon the neck of the disciples a yoke which neither our fathers nor we have been able to bear? 11 But we believe that we are saved through the grace of the Lord Jesus, in the same way as they also are.”

Acts 15
19 Therefore it is my judgment that we do not trouble those who are turning to God from among the Gentiles,

Acts 15
10 Now therefore why do you put God to the test by placing upon the neck of the disciples a yoke which neither our fathers nor we have been able to bear? 11 But we believe that we are saved through the grace of the Lord Jesus, in the same way as they also are.”

The Jewish Sabbath is part of the Jewish law which IS the yoke that neither their fathers nor the apostles were able to bear. None of the law is prescribed for the Christian, including the Sabbath.

 

[LarryP2]

"Where you found this concil of Apostles who rejected the Sabbath Day? If it in the Bible please present the place?"

Google "Council of Jerusalem AD 50" and you will find it.

This is rudimentary history of the First Century Church.

Modern Sabbath "Keepers" ignorantly flatter themselves by thinking they are "keeping the Sabbath," when in reality they are not. You cannot "keep the Sabbath" unless you are circumcised and converted to Judaism first.

 

[from scratch]

OLD AND NEW TESTAMENTS ARE INSEPARABLE​

Old and New Testaments are inseparable and undividable, they are one continues line, one continues story, one continues history, and one continues life, and there is no any sort of division or differences between them.

Whatever has been declared in the Old Testament, Jesus Christ declared it in His Message of Gospel, and whatever has been set up in the Old Testament, Jesus Christ also set up in His New Message of Gospel.

Jesus announced numerous times that He came not from Himself, and speaks not from Himself, and does miracles not from Himself, but does all of it from His Father. John in his Evangeline quoted these statements of Jesus Christ more than any other Evangeline.

By such statements He also wanted us to know that He came not on His Own accord, but from His Father Who sent Him. In this point view Jesus indeed came from the Old Testament, from the genealogy of Abraham, Isaac, Jacob, Judah, and David, and from the prophets of GOD who prophesied about Him long before His coming.

And Jesus also declared that He did not come to abolish the Law, but came to fulfill it. If the Old Law is obsolete, why then Jesus have to fulfill it? Would it make any sense? Who would spend a large amount of money for the old thing when the decision was made to replace it with a new thing?

The reason is that the Old Law never been obsolete or abolished, it always remains intact and active, and relevant forever for all times and for all generations to come. And even in the last days the Heavenly Temple and the Ark will ascend from Heaven, and the nations will bring their gifts to Jerusalem and will worship the Lord in His Heavenly temple as it was done before.

And as a matter of fact, Jesus Himself never brought with Him anything new, but constantly quoted Old Testament, and urged people of Israel to obey and to fulfill all spiritual commandments of the Law, and even in some instances physical rituals of the Law of Moses, until His physical death on the cross, and 70 years later when the Temple was destroyed and it was impossible to maintain any longer the physical rituals of the Law.

After His death only Spiritual Part (Spiritual Commandments) of the Law of Moses remains active, and become fully activated as the Gospel of Christ. And this Spiritual Part of the Law of Moses and became the Good News, the Evangeline, the Gospel of Christ, and the New Message, as we call it today.

Jesus Christ always has been INSPIRED by the Old Testament, and the INSPIRATION of the Law of Moses and the prophets gave Jesus spiritual boost in all His sermons, speeches, and announcement.

And by this He also proved that it is not hard to fulfill the Law of Moses and the prophets by obeying all their commandments, because He Himself done it in flesh as a mortal human being, and so for the rest of the world it also counts.

And this is the Message of Jesus Christ, to obey spiritual Laws of the Law of Moses and the prophets, and He presented the Law of Moses as improved, refined, and perfected Law, because He presented it as completely Spiritual Law, which is called Gospel, or Evangeline, which means Good News.

But the physical rituals have been abolished except few. So Jesus brought up and gave us not a New different or separated Law or Testament, but improved, refined, and perfected to a higher level Old Law, which is completely Spiritual Law based on the Spiritual commandments of the Law of Moses, which is the Gospel of Christ.

Some people in their arguments presented verses indicating that the glory of the “New Testament” is better than the glory of the Old Testament. And this is true, because glory of the Old Testament is the one special glory which presents physical ritual and spiritual commandments in its context.

And the glory of the Gospel of Christ is the other glory, because it is the Spiritual glory of the Law of Moses presented to us by Jesus Christ in His New Message, the Gospel, and glory of Jesus Christ better, because it is completely Spiritual and based on the spiritually of the Old Testament.
Just like left hand has its own glory, and the right hand has its own glory, but they both attached to the same body.

There is no Old Testament and the New testament, it is One continues Law of GOD, and there is no any difference between Law of Moses and the Gospel of Christ, except that Jesus Christ took only Spiritual Commandments of the Law of Moses and gave it to us, leaving behind the physical ritual which are no longer serve their purpose.

It is the same glory of GOD and His Son Jesus Christ, They Both gave us the Law of Moses and all its spiritual commandments and statutes, and there is nothing else beside it.

You really expect us to accept this?
some of us have actually read the whole Bible.

 

[from scratch]

"If not one thing in the law can change, that means all the OT law still stands, so Matt 5:17 cant be used to try to justify Sabbath observance or you can just admit that Jesus fulfilled the law and changes have been made."

Sabbath Keepers really do not really believe what they propose. They are brazenly dishonest with their claims. If they really believed in what they are claiming, they would be following all 613 Commandments of the Mosaic law. The Sabbath is merely one of 613. There is NO distinction in the Mosaic law between "Moral" and "Ceremonial" laws. You keep them all or none. They come as a package. Picking and choosing among them is not allowed. Gentiles cannot keep any of them until they fully convert to Judaism.

If they are serious about keeping the Law, they need to get busy and build themselves a Temple and start sacrificing animals, following the monthly, New Moons and yearly Sabbaths and all of the rest of the Mosaic law. Merely keeping the 4th Commandments is just dishonest. That plainly is not allowed under Mosaic law.

Until then, they should not be taken seriously.

Most of us here don't. Their arguments are to full of huge gaping holes ignoring way to much Bible.

 

[LarryP2]

Well I am just trying to do my part to discourage gullible Christians from falling into their destructive cult errors. I was born into one of those sick Sabbatarian Christian cults and wasn't able to escape until I was 22. It has taken me another 30 years to recover from the emotional and mental destruction those devious cults inflict.

Anyone that argues that Christians have to keep any part of the Mosaic Law are incredibly evil human beings.

 

[from scratch]

SABBATH DAY


Genesis 2.2-3
2.And by the Seventh Day GOD completed His work which He had done, and He rested on the Seventh Day from all His work which He had done.

3.The GOD blessed the Seventh Day and sanctified it, because in it He rested from all His work which GOD had created and made.

Concerning Sabbath, I believe that according to the verse above, Sabbath is the universal ritual and holiday for all humanity to observe.

GOD Himself rested on it, blessed it, and sanctified it, which means made it holy. And it was done even before humans were created, and long before the Law of Moses, and because of it, Sabbath should be the Day of Rest and the Day of Holy congregation to all human beings who believe and respect their GOD, their Creator.

Of course we can also and observe Sunday, and while there is no such law or commandment to congregate on Sunday in memory of Christ’s resurrection, we still can give our respect and to the Son of GOD by having Sunday’s worship. Above all, we can honor Christ at any day of the week if we want it and congregate in His name at any time, but I think that the Sabbath shall be observe first. Jesus Christ Himself observed and never violated it.

Are we the spiritual children of Abraham? Yes we are.

To Galatians 3.29
29.And if you belong to Christ, then you are Abraham’s offspring, heirs according to the promise.

And if we are spiritual children of Abraham, this means we are his descendants as the physical Jews, but in spiritual term. And like the physical descendants of Abraham received the Law concerning Sabbath, same Law as an exception applies and to us, just like Passover of Christ, and like Baptism of John and Christ, so and the Sabbath also belongs and to us.

We cannot honor Christ and dishonor His Father, They Both observe Their Sabbath.

You're entitled to believe anything you wish.

All descendants of Abraham aren't necessarily descendants of Israel. Read your Bible.

 

[from scratch]

Well I am just trying to do my part to discourage gullible Christians from falling into their destructive cult errors. I was born into one of those sick Sabbatarian Christian cults and wasn't able to escape until I was 22. It has taken me another 30 years to recover from the emotional and mental destruction those devious cults inflict.

Anyone that argues that Christians have to keep any part of the Mosaic Law are incredibly evil human beings.

Hey I'm thrilled to have you on board and in CF. We need more like you. Please be careful. We've come a long way here in the last 3 years. I see more improvements coming. Just takes time.

 

[maco]

Well I am just trying to do my part to discourage gullible Christians from falling into their destructive cult errors. I was born into one of those sick Sabbatarian Christian cults and wasn't able to escape until I was 22. It has taken me another 30 years to recover from the emotional and mental destruction those devious cults inflict.

Anyone that argues that Christians have to keep any part of the Mosaic Law are incredibly evil human beings.

WOW! Such hatred for something that God called very good. What next?

 

[maco]

Hey I'm thrilled to have you on board and in CF. We need more like you. Please be careful. We've come a long way here in the last 3 years. I see more improvements coming. Just takes time.

Birds of a feather...

 

[alex2165]

Law and Sabbath

To Henteza
You presented 4 verses, but none of them related to Sabbath and not even mentioned it. At the bottom of your post you wrote your opinion concerning Law and Sabbath, and you call it as yoke.

If indeed it is so hard to observe Sabbath by avoiding any work on it, and to have holy congregation on, and if it’s such yoke to do, so according to this the entire Law of GOD is yoke.

And the Lord GOD Who gave the Law to keep people holy before His Majesty, and to be acceptable for Him, is a burden for us because of His Law. I respect all opinions and yours as well.

And I imagine, if the Sabbath is so hard for us to observe in respect to our Creator, and it is such a burden for us, then how much more for the deep and concrete spiritual statutes of Jesus Christ can be possibly fulfilled by those who cannot even keep the simplicity of the Sabbath?

Is the keeping of the Sabbath much harder than to love your enemies? Or Sabbath is much harder than to take your cross, leave your father, and mother, and children, and friends, and all your possessions, and follow the Christ? If you cannot fulfill so little, how then you cannot fulfill more difficult things?

To Larry
Larry, Google is not the word of GOD, or any other historical source for that matter, that have no physical proof (tablet, script, scroll, book, written by participants or witnesses).

To Scratch
If you believe that it is possible to be the spiritual child of Abraham but not of Israel (Jacob), you may be forgotten that the promise of GOD of all the goodness to Abraham was actually is not for him but for his descendants.

It is Abraham’s descendants who actually possessed the Promised Land and subsequently inherited the promises of GOD given to Abraham, and not the Abraham himself. This means that those who consider themselves the spiritual children of Abraham but do not considered themselves to be the spiritual children of his descendants, in this case such people cannot inherit the promises of GOD, and the Galatians 3.29 specifies exactly that.

I am not trying you to accept anything, I just express my point of view and my opinion just like any of you. And I also know that all of you read the Bible.

But I believe that reading Bible far is not enough, because Bible is not the literature, it must be studied, and only then a person can get the right perspective and understanding of the Holy Scripture. It just my believe.

Respectfully

Alex

 

[Hentenza]

Law and Sabbath

To Henteza
You presented 4 verses, but none of them related to Sabbath and not even mentioned it. At the bottom of your post you wrote your opinion concerning Law and Sabbath, and you call it as yoke.

If indeed it is so hard to observe Sabbath by avoiding any work on it, and to have holy congregation on, and if it’s such yoke to do, so according to this the entire Law of GOD is yoke.

And the Lord GOD Who gave the Law to keep people holy before His Majesty, and to be acceptable for Him, is a burden for us because of His Law. I respect all opinions and yours as well.

And I imagine, if the Sabbath is so hard for us to observe in respect to our Creator, and it is such a burden for us, then how much more for the deep and concrete spiritual statutes of Jesus Christ can be possibly fulfilled by those who cannot even keep the simplicity of the Sabbath?

Is the keeping of the Sabbath much harder than to love your enemies? Or Sabbath is much harder than to take your cross, leave your father, and mother, and children, and friends, and all your possessions, and follow the Christ? If you cannot fulfill so little, how then you cannot fulfill more difficult things?

The yoke is the law, Alex. It includes ALL of the law, including the Sabbath. You cannot divorce the Sabbath from the law; it is an intricate part of the law. The council of 50ad, depicted in Acts 15, made it clear that the Christian is NOT under the law, including the Sabbath.

 

[from scratch]

WOW! Such hatred for something that God called very good. What next?

I don't read anywhere God calling their destructive cult errors or a Sabbatarian Christian cult good. Maybe you were referring to something else not in the post. That would be very normal.

 

[from scratch]

Law and Sabbath

To Henteza
You presented 4 verses, but none of them related to Sabbath and not even mentioned it. At the bottom of your post you wrote your opinion concerning Law and Sabbath, and you call it as yoke.

If indeed it is so hard to observe Sabbath by avoiding any work on it, and to have holy congregation on, and if it’s such yoke to do, so according to this the entire Law of GOD is yoke.

And the Lord GOD Who gave the Law to keep people holy before His Majesty, and to be acceptable for Him, is a burden for us because of His Law. I respect all opinions and yours as well.

And I imagine, if the Sabbath is so hard for us to observe in respect to our Creator, and it is such a burden for us, then how much more for the deep and concrete spiritual statutes of Jesus Christ can be possibly fulfilled by those who cannot even keep the simplicity of the Sabbath?

Is the keeping of the Sabbath much harder than to love your enemies? Or Sabbath is much harder than to take your cross, leave your father, and mother, and children, and friends, and all your possessions, and follow the Christ? If you cannot fulfill so little, how then you cannot fulfill more difficult things?

To Larry
Larry, Google is not the word of GOD, or any other historical source for that matter, that have no physical proof (tablet, script, scroll, book, written by participants or witnesses).

To Scratch
If you believe that it is possible to be the spiritual child of Abraham but not of Israel (Jacob), you may be forgotten that the promise of GOD of all the goodness to Abraham was actually is not for him but for his descendants.

It is Abraham’s descendants who actually possessed the Promised Land and subsequently inherited the promises of GOD given to Abraham, and not the Abraham himself. This means that those who consider themselves the spiritual children of Abraham but do not considered themselves to be the spiritual children of his descendants, in this case such people cannot inherit the promises of GOD, and the Galatians 3.29 specifies exactly that.

I am not trying you to accept anything, I just express my point of view and my opinion just like any of you. And I also know that all of you read the Bible.

But I believe that reading Bible far is not enough, because Bible is not the literature, it must be studied, and only then a person can get the right perspective and understanding of the Holy Scripture. It just my believe.

Respectfully

Alex

Alex, kind sir you need to read both my post and the Bible. Your response shows me you either haven't read the Bible and are using proof texts or are out to deceive.

 

[BobRyan]

"Where you found this concil of Apostles who rejected the Sabbath Day? If it in the Bible please present the place?"

Google "Council of Jerusalem AD 50" and you will find it.

This is rudimentary history of the First Century Church.

In Acts 15 they rely on the fact that the both Jewish Christians and Gentile Christians hear the word of God preached "every Sabbath" just as we see in Acts 13, in Acts 17 and in Acts 18.

But more than this Is 66:23 say "from Sabbath to Sabbath shall ALL MANKIND come before Me to worship" and of course this last point is so obvious that "even" the Sunday sources list below "get the point".

 

[BobRyan]

Law and Sabbath

To Henteza
You presented 4 verses, but none of them related to Sabbath and not even mentioned it. At the bottom of your post you wrote your opinion concerning Law and Sabbath, and you call it as yoke.

If indeed it is so hard to observe Sabbath by avoiding any work on it, and to have holy congregation on, and if it’s such yoke to do, so according to this the entire Law of GOD is yoke.

...

Respectfully

Alex

Good point.

By contrast 1John 5 says that for the saints the Law of God is NOT a burden.

And Heb 8 says that under the NEW Covenant the Jer 31:31-33 LAW of God is "written on the heart". A point about the TEN Commandments that even the list of pro-Sunday Sources listed below - quickly affirm.