1050 New Testament Commands vs 613 Old Testament Commands, which do we follow?

[BobRyan]

I don't read anywhere God calling their destructive cult errors or a Sabbatarian Christian cult good.

God does not use such acrimony and vitriol as is so often used here by those who are at war against God's TEN Commandments. God is not in the business of waging war against His Word. Read Mark 7:6-13 to see what God thinks of the idea of waging war against His Word,

 

[maco]

God does not use such acrimony and vitriol as is so often used here by those who are at war against God's TEN Commandments. God is not in the business of waging war against His Word. Read Mark 7:6-13 to see what God thinks of the idea of waging war against His Word,

Revelation 12:17 And the dragon was enraged with the woman, and he went to make war with the rest of her offspring, who keep the commandments of God and have the testimony of Jesus Christ.

 

[LarryP2]

First Century Christianity NEVER kept the Sabbath. NEVER. Not once do the Apostles tell the Christians they must keep the Sabbath, or any of the other 613 Commandments of Judaism. Sabbath Keeping has never been a part of genuine Christianity. Only quasi-Christian cults emphasize it.

Under Jewish law, circumcision is required before ANY of the Mosaic Laws can be kept. The Council of Jerusalem in AD 50 decided once and for all that the Gentile Christians would not be required to follow the Mosaic Law. Their duties were described in the Book of Acts and are parallel to the Noahide Law.

Seventh Day Adventism has a yearly stampede of 300,000 fleeing their cruel system of cult bondage. EVERY single significant doctrine of SDA has been soundly debunked by their own theologians! Not one of them has held up under scrutiny of their own Bible scholars! It is a cultish house of cards.

SDAs THINK they are keeping the Sabbath and brag loudly about their superiority over other Christians because of it, but in truth they do not keep the Sabbath. What they "keep" is a convenient, Americanized, sanitized, dumbed down, processed cheese-version of the Sabbath that bears absolutely NO resemblance to the Sabbath as kept by Jesus or anyone in the Old Testament. They have no idea of how to keep the Sabbath.

Don't flatter yourself for imagining you have accomplished something you haven't. The only truly honest Sabbath Keepers are the ones who recently began keeping the monthly, yearly and New Moons Sabbaths, all the Jewish feast days and some of them have built the necessary backyard temples to commence animal sacrifices. The honest sabbath keepers have searched out and found the Rabbis necessary to follow the Levitical food laws. If you are going to follow Jesus's example of Sabbath keeping, then you also have to follow all the other Mosaic Laws outlined above. He did.

In the aftermath of SDA's Sabbath Scholar Dr. Samuelle Bachiochi's demolition of the Adventist culture that had developed around the Sabbath over 150 years, honest Adventists have followed his lead and are undertaking the necessary steps to follow ALL of the Jewish laws that are required. Keeping their sanitized Velveeta-version of the 7th Day Sabbath just does not cut it anymore.

Furthermore, they are beginning to see the necessity of rejecting St. Paul as a "False Prophet" and someone who they claim "illegitimately" introduced Greek and Roman thought into Christianity. Notice how advocates of the Sabbatarian cult NEVER cite St. Paul for support for their system of cult bondage. It is obvious they must discredit St. Paul if they are going to keep all of the Jewish Laws, which the honest among them now do teach.

But that has nothing to do with Christianity.

Christianity has NEVER required Sabbath keeping.

 

[alex2165]

Excellent cross reference Bob Ryan, I even copied the places you mentioned for my own reference concerning Sabbath.

I am also presenting another proof of the importance of the Sabbath in our lives, as the evidence that the Sabbath remains very important Day to observe for whole humanity, as a statute given from GOD and not from men.

Paul presented words of GOD about Sabbath Day not only as a Day of rest, but also as a Day of Salvation, and as a place of His habitation.

Hebrews 4.4-5.9-10
4.He has thus said somewhere concerning the Seventh Day, "And GOD rested on the Seventh Day from all His works" (Genesis 2.2),

5.and again in this passage, "They shall not enter My rest." (Psalm 95.11)

9.There remains a Sabbath rest for the people of GOD.

10.The one who has entered His rest, has himself also rested from his works, as GOD did from His.

In verses above Paul compared the Sabbath rest of GOD with His everlasting Kingdom, and us as those who labor in our physical world in order to achieve our eternal spiritual rest, which means our everlasting Sabbath! (everlasting life)

According to the verses presented by Bob Ryan, Apostles of Christ never violated Sabbath, and all first Christians always congregated on the Sabbath and observed this Day religiously, until some corrupt people changed it to a Sunday worship, which against the rule of GOD, because no commandments ever been issued by GOD Father to discard Sabbath, nor by Jesus Christ or His Apostles.

And because the word of GOD always prevails against the word of the mortals, Sabbath still remains the Day which must to be observed, and on such Day the worship of GOD must be conducted.

Above all, Jesus Himself never violated the Sabbath Day, and never changed or rejected it in any way, and so, Sabbath still remains as the Day to observed, and according to the verse that Bob Ryan presented Isaiah 66.23, Sabbath will remain as such forever for all times and for all generations to come.

Isaiah 66.23
23.”And it shall be from new moon to new moon, and from Sabbath to Sabbath, all mankind will come to bow down before Me”, says the Lord.

Amen.

 

[LarryP2]

Not until you have wasted 22 years in an utterly soul dead and clinically depressed, Sabbarian cult church can you really appreciate a real live electrifying Christian church.

I am quite entitled to express my opinion on this issue. I have earned that right.

The difference between the miserable Sabbatarian cult church and a real Christian Church is totally beyond belief. It cannot even be described. The best you can do is describe it as night and day. Miserable Sabbatariansm was my long dark depressed night of the soul.

I have now experienced the Resurrection. I am blinded by the Son.

 

[BobRyan]

First Century Christianity NEVER kept the Sabbath. NEVER. Not once do the Apostles tell the Christians they must keep the Sabbath, or any of the other 613 Commandments of Judaism. Sabbath Keeping has never been a part of genuine Christianity. Only quasi-Christian cults emphasize it.

.

1. The SDA denomination is larger than Southern Baptist AND Seventh-day Baptist groups - COMBINED. (Oh no wait - they are cults too in your view??)

2. There are NO "weekday1 after weekday 1" worship services in the entire NT -- not one!

3. Not ONCE do NT Authors ever command the NT saints to keep week-day-1 holy.

4. there are MANY Sabbath after Sabbath worship services attended by NT Christian saints. Acts 13, Acts 17, Acts 18 -- and the Apostolic church of Acts 15 actually "relied on this fact" to resolve their church dispute (see Acts 15).

5. In the New Heavens and new earth long AFTER the cross "From Sabbath to Sabbath shall ALL MANKIND come before Me to Worship" Is 66:23

What is more - even the following Sunday sources themselves argue for the continued binding authority of the Sabbath Commandment for all Christians to this very day. (So then just stating the obvious here).

 

[BobRyan]

Excellent cross reference Bob Ryan, I even copied the places you mentioned for my own reference concerning Sabbath.

I am also presenting another proof of the importance of the Sabbath in our lives, as the evidence that the Sabbath remains very important Day to observe for whole humanity, as a statute given from GOD and not from men.

Paul presented words of GOD about Sabbath Day not only as a Day of rest, but also as a Day of Salvation, and as a place of His habitation.

Hebrews 4.4-5.9-10
4.He has thus said somewhere concerning the Seventh Day, "And GOD rested on the Seventh Day from all His works" (Genesis 2.2),

5.and again in this passage, "They shall not enter My rest." (Psalm 95.11)

9.There remains a Sabbath rest for the people of GOD.

10.The one who has entered His rest, has himself also rested from his works, as GOD did from His.

In verses above Paul compared the Sabbath rest of GOD with His everlasting Kingdom, and us as those who labor in our physical world in order to achieve our eternal spiritual rest, which means our everlasting Sabbath! (everlasting life)

According to the verses presented by Bob Ryan, Apostles of Christ never violated Sabbath, and all first Christians always congregated on the Sabbath and observed this Day religiously, ...

Good points ALL - thanks for sharing with us!

Blessings -

BobRyan

 

[from scratch]

God does not use such acrimony and vitriol as is so often used here by those who are at war against God's TEN Commandments. God is not in the business of waging war against His Word. Read Mark 7:6-13 to see what God thinks of the idea of waging war against His Word,

I find it very interesting that you should use such language and attack against a person. I neither attack nor am at war with God's law or the Ten Commandments. What you're doing is nothing more than a manipulative ploy to enforce a false doctrine.

 

[from scratch]

Revelation 12:17 And the dragon was enraged with the woman, and he went to make war with the rest of her offspring, who keep the commandments of God and have the testimony of Jesus Christ.

You don't keep them so what's the beef? You claim keeping them is a requirement of salvation. If that's not true you are offering nothing more than religion and nothing about a relationship with God. God can't be obligated by mere men. I know many who try.

 

[from scratch]

Excellent cross reference Bob Ryan, I even copied the places you mentioned for my own reference concerning Sabbath.

I am also presenting another proof of the importance of the Sabbath in our lives, as the evidence that the Sabbath remains very important Day to observe for whole humanity, as a statute given from GOD and not from men.

Paul presented words of GOD about Sabbath Day not only as a Day of rest, but also as a Day of Salvation, and as a place of His habitation.

Hebrews 4.4-5.9-10
4.He has thus said somewhere concerning the Seventh Day, "And GOD rested on the Seventh Day from all His works" (Genesis 2.2),

5.and again in this passage, "They shall not enter My rest." (Psalm 95.11)

9.There remains a Sabbath rest for the people of GOD.

10.The one who has entered His rest, has himself also rested from his works, as GOD did from His.

In verses above Paul compared the Sabbath rest of GOD with His everlasting Kingdom, and us as those who labor in our physical world in order to achieve our eternal spiritual rest, which means our everlasting Sabbath! (everlasting life)

According to the verses presented by Bob Ryan, Apostles of Christ never violated Sabbath, and all first Christians always congregated on the Sabbath and observed this Day religiously, until some corrupt people changed it to a Sunday worship, which against the rule of GOD, because no commandments ever been issued by GOD Father to discard Sabbath, nor by Jesus Christ or His Apostles.

And because the word of GOD always prevails against the word of the mortals, Sabbath still remains the Day which must to be observed, and on such Day the worship of GOD must be conducted.

Above all, Jesus Himself never violated the Sabbath Day, and never changed or rejected it in any way, and so, Sabbath still remains as the Day to observed, and according to the verse that Bob Ryan presented Isaiah 66.23, Sabbath will remain as such forever for all times and for all generations to come.

Isaiah 66.23
23.”And it shall be from new moon to new moon, and from Sabbath to Sabbath, all mankind will come to bow down before Me”, says the Lord.

Amen.

I'll ask you the same question I've asked Bob. Where does your verse Isa 66:23 say anything about on? There's absolutely nothing in that verse about the Sabbath.

 

[from scratch]

1. The SDA denomination is larger than Southern Baptist AND Seventh-day Baptist groups - COMBINED. (Oh no wait - they are cults too in your view??)

2. There are NO "weekday1 after weekday 1" worship services in the entire NT -- not one!

3. Not ONCE do NT Authors ever command the NT saints to keep week-day-1 holy.

4. there are MANY Sabbath after Sabbath worship services attended by NT Christian saints. Acts 13, Acts 17, Acts 18 -- and the Apostolic church of Acts 15 actually "relied on this fact" to resolve their church dispute (see Acts 15).

5. In the New Heavens and new earth long AFTER the cross "From Sabbath to Sabbath shall ALL MANKIND come before Me to Worship" Is 66:23

What is more - even the following Sunday sources themselves argue for the continued binding authority of the Sabbath Commandment for all Christians to this very day. (So then just stating the obvious here).

Really? You must be kidding yourself. Well at least in my communities they aren't. There isn't a single SDA congregation packing in a 1,000 (probably safe to say even 250) or more in my state. I've seen their facilities. So lift up your proud countenance and boast. It doesn't even get a dull reflection here.

 

[alex2165]

Isaiah 66.23 is recorder in KSB and NRSV, exactly as Bob and I presented it, word to word.

In GNB it is written this way:
“On every New Moon Festival and every Sabbath people of every nation will come to worship Me here in Jerusalem.”

In Gideons Bible as this:
“And it shall come to pass that from one New Moon to another, and from one Sabbath to another, all flesh shall come to worship before Me.” Says the Lord.

I also read some arguments concerning the beginning of the Sabbath and when it became a Law to observe.

I believe that the Sabbath as the Holy Day for whole humanity to observe started with the Law of Moses. If Law prescribed to observe Sabbath, and not observance of it is punishable by death, it means that the Sabbath is among the most important Holy Days of the Law.

I also think that from the time of Adam and Eve, and to the time of Moses, in this period of time people did not observe Sabbath, because were no Law from GOD given to anyone to observe it, or anything else for that matter.

I am not even sure that in this particular period of time between Adam and Moses people even knew about the Sabbath of GOD, until the Law of Moses.

Because first five Books of Moses have been written at least three thousand years after the Great Flood, not mentioning the time period from Flood to Adam and Eve.

And so, no body at that period of time can possibly knew about Sabbath, unless GOD revealed to some. So because of it, people did not observe Sabbath until the Law of Moses.

At the time of Adam and Eve and all the way to the time of the Law of Moses, people have been driven by the Law of their own Conscience, which they inherited from Adam and Eve, who received it directly from the Tree of Good and Evil.

But later at the time of Moses, the direct Law of GOD enhances and improves the Law of Conscience as the higher standard of the Conscience, which becomes much better and much perfected and higher quality of our morality for all human beings.

Comparing issue of the Sabbath to the ritual of sacrifices to GOD, this type of ritual even without any Law, started from Abel and Cain, and has been performed with or without GOD’S command, all the way to the Law of Moses.

This means that for more sophisticated and deeply meaningful ritual as Sabbath, GOD made a certain delay, in order to give humanity enough time to be morally, consciously, and spiritually ready for it.

But the sacrifices of animals to GOD do not require such high standards of conscience and spirituality, and I think because of it, they started from the very beginning.

 

[LarryP2]

The Apostles roundly blasted the ludicrous Sabbatarian Ebionite heresy of the First Century, ridiculing them as "Judaizers" with their pathetic and dismal arguments that the dead hand of Mosaic laws applied to Christians. Ebionites - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia Of course, the early Ebionites - long forgotten until the present cultish Ebionites came slinking back in the 1800s - fizzled out quickly compared to Christianity, which thrived with the born again Gentiles.

Of course, the Ebionites, like today's even MORE pathetic Sabbatarians, quickly eliminated the Apostle Paul from the Biblical Canon knowing that he is incompatible with their Ebionite heretical views, much like "Historic Adventists" and "Last Generation Theologists" reject St. Paul today. Sabbatarians who do not rip the Epistles of St. Paul out of the Canon are being dishonest.

Christianity has never kept the Sabbath, which is why it quickly became the world's biggest religion in the early centuries of the church. The Ebionites, dead to the Law like today's Sabbatarians - where no match for the vibrant Christianity of the Apostles.

Judaizing Sabbatarians eventually - if they are honest - get around to rejecting the divinity of Christ, much like Seventh Day Adventists held to heretical Arian views for about their first 100 years. So we see that Ebionite Sabbatarians with their emphasis on the Dead Law of Moses is completely fundamentally incompatible with the vibrant followers of Christianity.

 

[BobRyan]

I'll ask you the same question I've asked Bob. Where does your verse Isa 66:23 say anything about on? .

The obvious solution to the supposed riddle is that;

1. both the weekly and the monthly cylce are listed in Is 66. You only get meaning from both 'cycles' if you preserve the cycle - otherwise you make jibberish of the text.

2. NO TEXT in all of scripture uses "from Sabbath to Sabbath AND from New Moon to New Moon" to mean "every day" or "daily".

There are many OT texts that DO mention "daily" and NONE of them do what from-scratch appears to suggest.

So having no text as a reference - I think he simply prefers an any-ol-exvuse-will-do solution. And of course he is free to resort to that if he wishes.

in Christ,

Bob

 

[BobRyan]

The Apostles roundly blasted the ludicrous Sabbatarian Ebionite....

Christ roundly condemns the Sabbatarian Priests and Pharisees in Mark 7:6-13 for trying to sidestep the Law of God, the Commandments of God -- with their bogus man-made traditions.

Christ kept the Sabbath and so also did His disciples.

in Christ,

Bob

 

[BobRyan]

Isaiah 66.23 is recorder in KSB and NRSV, exactly as Bob and I presented it, word to word.

In GNB it is written this way:
“On every New Moon Festival and every Sabbath people of every nation will come to worship Me here in Jerusalem.”

In Gideons Bible as this:
“And it shall come to pass that from one New Moon to another, and from one Sabbath to another, all flesh shall come to worship before Me.” Says the Lord.

I also read some arguments concerning the beginning of the Sabbath and when it became a Law to observe.

I believe that the Sabbath as the Holy Day for whole humanity to observe started with the Law of Moses.

There are a number of Sunday Sources listed below that argue that the Sabbath for all mankind - begins in Gen 2:1-3 and was the seventh-day of the week.

I think they get that part right.

in Christ,

Bob

 

[BobRyan]

1. The SDA denomination is larger than Southern Baptist AND Seventh-day Baptist groups - COMBINED. (Oh no wait - they are cults too in your view??)

2. There are NO "weekday1 after weekday 1" worship services in the entire NT -- not one!

3. Not ONCE do NT Authors ever command the NT saints to keep week-day-1 holy.

4. there are MANY Sabbath after Sabbath worship services attended by NT Christian saints. Acts 13, Acts 17, Acts 18 -- and the Apostolic church of Acts 15 actually "relied on this fact" to resolve their church dispute (see Acts 15).

5. In the New Heavens and new earth long AFTER the cross "From Sabbath to Sabbath shall ALL MANKIND come before Me to Worship" Is 66:23

What is more - even the following Sunday sources themselves argue for the continued binding authority of the Sabbath Commandment for all Christians to this very day. (So then just stating the obvious here).

Really? You must be kidding yourself. Well at least in my communities they aren't.

You need to get out more.

Look the denominations up in places like "Adherents" -- get outside of your local community on this one because the World is a big place - as it turns out and "God so loved the WORLD that He gave..." not just from-scratch's 'local community".

I think we both knew that.

in Christ,

Bob

 

[alex2165]

Yes, I was puzzled little bit by his question, and I think that you understood him right, and your reply in this case is correct.

 

[from scratch]

Isaiah 66.23 is recorder in KSB and NRSV, exactly as Bob and I presented it, word to word.

If I remember correctly I agree. Now what? There is absolutely nothing in the verse concerning the Sabbath.

In GNB it is written this way:

So the GNB is personal opinion and not true to the original language.

“On every New Moon Festival and every Sabbath people of every nation will come to worship Me here in Jerusalem.”

In Gideons Bible as this:
“And it shall come to pass that from one New Moon to another, and from one Sabbath to another, all flesh shall come to worship before Me.” Says the Lord.

I also read some arguments concerning the beginning of the Sabbath and when it became a Law to observe.

I believe that the Sabbath as the Holy Day for whole humanity to observe started with the Law of Moses. If Law prescribed to observe Sabbath, and not observance of it is punishable by death, it means that the Sabbath is among the most important Holy Days of the Law.

And it ended when the Seed came - Gal 3:19, John 1:1:17, LK 16:16. I don't even need Paul to say Now we are delivered from the law shown to be the Ten Commandments in the next verse by quote which is called the covenant by Moses in Deut 4:13.

I also think that from the time of Adam and Eve, and to the time of Moses, in this period of time people did not observe Sabbath, because were no Law from GOD given to anyone to observe it, or anything else for that matter.

I am not even sure that in this particular period of time between Adam and Moses people even knew about the Sabbath of GOD, until the Law of Moses.

Because first five Books of Moses have been written at least three thousand years after the Great Flood, not mentioning the time period from Flood to Adam and Eve.

And so, no body at that period of time can possibly knew about Sabbath, unless GOD revealed to some. So because of it, people did not observe Sabbath until the Law of Moses.

At the time of Adam and Eve and all the way to the time of the Law of Moses, people have been driven by the Law of their own Conscience, which they inherited from Adam and Eve, who received it directly from the Tree of Good and Evil.

But later at the time of Moses, the direct Law of GOD enhances and improves the Law of Conscience as the higher standard of the Conscience, which becomes much better and much perfected and higher quality of our morality for all human beings.

Comparing issue of the Sabbath to the ritual of sacrifices to GOD, this type of ritual even without any Law, started from Abel and Cain, and has been performed with or without GOD’S command, all the way to the Law of Moses.

This means that for more sophisticated and deeply meaningful ritual as Sabbath, GOD made a certain delay, in order to give humanity enough time to be morally, consciously, and spiritually ready for it.

But the sacrifices of animals to GOD do not require such high standards of conscience and spirituality, and I think because of it, they started from the very beginning.

None of which has anything to do with Christianity in a direct way meaning we're obligated.

Helpful posting hint - go to your edit feature on your profile and change the type style and size to be automatically what ever you wish.

 

[from scratch]

The Apostles roundly blasted the ludicrous Sabbatarian Ebionite heresy of the First Century, ridiculing them as "Judaizers" with their pathetic and dismal arguments that the dead hand of Mosaic laws applied to Christians. Ebionites - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia Of course, the early Ebionites - long forgotten until the present cultish Ebionites came slinking back in the 1800s - fizzled out quickly compared to Christianity, which thrived with the born again Gentiles.

Of course, the Ebionites, like today's even MORE pathetic Sabbatarians, quickly eliminated the Apostle Paul from the Biblical Canon knowing that he is incompatible with their Ebionite heretical views, much like "Historic Adventists" and "Last Generation Theologists" reject St. Paul today. Sabbatarians who do not rip the Epistles of St. Paul out of the Canon are being dishonest.

Christianity has never kept the Sabbath, which is why it quickly became the world's biggest religion in the early centuries of the church. The Ebionites, dead to the Law like today's Sabbatarians - where no match for the vibrant Christianity of the Apostles.

Judaizing Sabbatarians eventually - if they are honest - get around to rejecting the divinity of Christ, much like Seventh Day Adventists held to heretical Arian views for about their first 100 years. So we see that Ebionite Sabbatarians with their emphasis on the Dead Law of Moses is completely fundamentally incompatible with the vibrant followers of Christianity.

Yes the SDA Jesus can sin. He inherited His nature from God, His Father and not Adam (man). They simply don't understand God and place Him on the level of man. I'm not the slightest bit interested in their god who can sin.