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An Ant-sy Solution to Hydrogen Storage

Tuur

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From Science Daily: New catalyst turns carbon dioxide into clean fuel.

New catalyst turns carbon dioxide into clean fuel source

The gist of it is that manganese, as a catalyst, can be used to make formate, the precursor to formic acid. Formate has the chemical formula of HCO2. Formic acid is HCO2H. The idea is to use manganese to make formate, which in turn can chemically store hydrogen.

First thought: the ants are really going to love this one: they are attracted to formic acid. Second: thought: What is the cost in efficiency in making formic acid, then using it to produce hydrogen. Third thought: this may be safer than dealing with H2, but what kind of bulk are we looking at? One mole of formate can hold one mole of hydrogen, but what is that bulk-wise? As a liquid, formic acid should be right at incompressible. Formic acid has a density of 1.22 g/ ml. Molar weight is 46.0254 g / mole, which should be 37.7257 ml to hold 1 mole of hydrogen. I don’t know how usable that is.

It’s interesting because that might be a safer and cheaper form of energy storage that lithium batteries. If it’s practical, it could address the energy storage problems that inhibit solar and wind electricity generation.
 
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Hans Blaster

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From Science Daily: New catalyst turns carbon dioxide into clean fuel.

New catalyst turns carbon dioxide into clean fuel source

The gist of it is that manganese, as a catalyst, can be used to make formate, the precursor to formic acid. Formate has the chemical formula of HCO2. Formic acid is HCO2H. The idea is to use manganese to make formate, which in turn can chemically store hydrogen.

First thought: the ants are really going to love this one: they are attracted to formic acid. Second: thought: What is the cost in efficiency in making formic acid, then using it to produce hydrogen. Third thought: this may be safer than dealing with H2, but what kind of bulk are we looking at? One mole of formate can hold one mole of hydrogen, but what is that bulk-wise? As a liquid, formic acid should be right at incompressible. Formic acid has a density of 1.22 g/ ml. Molar weight is 46.0254 g / mole, which should be 37.7257 ml to hold 1 mole of hydrogen. I don’t know how usable that is.

It’s interesting because that might be a safer and cheaper form of energy storage that lithium batteries. If it’s practical, it could address the energy storage problems that inhibit solar and wind electricity generation.
Because liberating the hydrogen from formate for a fuel would return the CO2 to the atmosphere, I'm not sure the "green benefit" relative to other H2 storage mechanisms. What does seem more promising is changing the industrial formic acid production from fossil fuels to CO2 from the atmosphere.
 
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Tuur

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Because liberating the hydrogen from formate for a fuel would return the CO2 to the atmosphere, I'm not sure the "green benefit" relative to other H2 storage mechanisms. What does seem more promising is changing the industrial formic acid production from fossil fuels to CO2 from the atmosphere.
It would with formic acid fuel cells. My chemistry is so old I can't remember if a mole of hydrogen is H or H2. Do recall we looked at some gases a combo, like O2 (not noble gasses, of course), but no longer sure why.

Oh: found formic acid fuel cells existed looking for more info on energy density. I assumed that the process would go from formate to formic acid and back again without releasing CO2. But assuming that's the process doesn't make it so. For all know, formate could be unstable or there's no easy way to decompose HCO2H to HCO + H.

FWIW, formic acid has a energy density of 2.13 KWh/L, but that's going from HCO2H to CO2 + H2.

If going from CO2 to HCO2 to HCO2H is what they are addressing, I'm more concerned by the extra step that CO2 going back into the atmosphere since it's not adding to CO2. It's not sequestering it, but that might not be the point. What's really grabbed my interest is that it might be a good way to store solar and wind produced electricity. But that extra step would have to cut into energy efficiency; by how much I have no idea.

Just looked at lithium battery capacity. By volume it may be from 0.3 to 0.7 KWh/L, which is surprising to me.
 
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