A Conversation about EVs & Transport

[Reasonably Sane]

All my city commutes are faster than car or bus. That crowded streets.

Last year, I did 70 miles round trip bike ride with 5,000' of climbing every Saturday. It was nonstop without eating nor hydrating on a heavy bike and wearing casual clothes with temperatures peaking to 110 F.

I don't do those long bike rides anymore. I have substituted it with 10 to 14 hrs of skating each week but I still commute with bicycle. Skating's just purely for exercise within apartment grounds.

no hydrating at 110 degrees?! That's nuts!

BTW, just before the new road to the Mt. St. Helens visitor center was opened after it blew, a friend of mine and I started at the bottom and rode the roughly 20 miles to the top. It was an awesome and very wide two lane highway with wide switchbacks that could be navigated by RV's. But it was closed that day, at least to motor traffic. We rested at the top and then turned around and coasted all the way back, using our legs only as shock absorbers. The speed and silence of the bikes allowed us to sneak up on a few Elk. The switchbacks were large enough radius that we rarely had to slow down. Interestingly, my legs were still exhausted at the bottom since I was pretty much partly standing up on the pedals all the way down. I'll never forget it.

 

[jacorian]

Greetings, fellow tech enthusiasts. Today's post is a companion to a Conversation About Solar Panels, part of a short series on green energy, transportation and the environment, as we are called to be good stewards and caretakers of the Earth. This post will cover EVs and transportation, including the pros and cons of different transport systems. Sources are listed at the bottom of this post.

Electric Cars: Electric cars have been around for over 130 years, since the 1800s. In 1888, a German engineer built the first mainstream electric car, the Flocken Electrowagen. Sadly, petrol cars overtook electric cars in popularity during the early 20th century. Nowadays, Tesla, Chevy and Nissan along with other manufacturers have revived the electric car since the 2010s, helping to reduce emissions over the long run. Electric cars do have their downsides though. First off, cars are still cars, no matter if the vehicle is electrified. Rail, buses and bike paths can carry far more people compared to a car.

Also, EVs have been under the scrutiny for human rights violations, including the use of child labor to mine the minerals for the batteries. Teslas and EVs also weight much more compared to other cars, and therefore can cause +40% more wear and tear on road surfaces compared to gasoline powered brethren. However, even with these drawbacks, an EV is much better choice compared to a gas car.

Hybrids: Hybrid vehicles, which use a combination of an internal combustion engine and an electric motor, can serve as a bridge between traditional gasoline cars and fully electric vehicles. They offer better fuel efficiency and lower emissions than conventional cars but still have the convenience of a gasoline engine for longer trips or in areas where charging infrastructure is limited.

Fuel Cells: Fuel Cell Electric Vehicles (FCEVs), represented by models like the Toyota Mirai, operate via a unique mechanism that generates electricity using hydrogen (H2) and oxygen from the atmosphere. Inside the vehicle, hydrogen is kept under pressure within storage tanks. As the driver accelerates, this hydrogen and ambient air enter the fuel cell stack where an electrochemical reaction takes place. This reaction produces electricity, water vapor, and heat - all harmless waste products. The produced electricity propels an electric motor connected to the driveshaft, enabling movement. Unlike internal combustion engines found in fossil or biofuel powered vehicles, these systems do not emit pollutants like carbon dioxide or nitrogen oxides.

Compared to charging battery-electric vehicles, filling up a FCEV at a hydrogen station takes just about three minutes, making refueling fast and convenient. Maintenance requirements for FCEVs are also reduced since they have fewer moving components than regular automobiles. Additionally, they generally do not require oil changes and necessitate less frequent maintenance overall because of their simplified engine structure. Overall, FCEVs represent a significant step forward towards sustainable transportation solutions with minimal environmental impact.

Public Transport: Public transportation is a staple in European and Asian cities, as well as some cities in the Americas. Cities with a reliable rail or bus network rely less on personal vehicles. Public transportation has lower carbon emissions per person, especially when the buses and trains are run at a reasonable capacity. Rail especially can be easily run on clean electricity. Eurostar, a European rail line is expected to convert to 100% renewable energy by 2030, reducing European railway carbon emissions from low to even lower.

Walkable Cities: Some cities in Europe have stores and amenities much closer to each other compared to American cities. For instance, in Spain, it took only 5 minutes for me to walk to the store with my parents on our 2019 trip in Seville. This means that less gas and fuel have to be used for getting food or going to other amenities. A 1989 Japanese concept tower (never built) took this even further, with a height of 1000 m (3300 ft). This Sky City 1000 would have multiple amenities, and be a fully self contained car-free city, where people could walk to other amenities, or take a high speed elevator between almost 200 floors.


Word for Christians (feel free to skip): In 2040, the Euphrates river is expected to dry up, according to the Iraqi Ministry of Water Resources, due to dryer climates from anthropogenic global warming. The Bible says in Revelation that the Euphrates will dry up in the end times. Seems that human caused global warming might be one of those signs of the times that we are living in. So, if we want to delay this river from evaporating, we might want to use cleaner energy. If the river dries up, maybe China could have the capability of sending people or an army over it (Revelation 9:16–18), in order to get natural resources or take over the Middle East. Though, no one knows when the end times will happen (Matthew 24:36), and we as Christians must avoid speculation (James 14:13-15).


Electric horseless carriage (1888)
View attachment 350546

Sky City 1000
View attachment 350572

Sources
Luxembourg buses: Public transport
Tesla human rights issues: https://www.sec.gov/Archives/edgar/data/1318605/000121465920007479/d826200px14a6g.htm
Road wear and tear: Are electric cars too heavy for roads, bridges and car parks?
Hydrogen FCEVs: https://www.caranddriver.com/features/a41103863/hydrogen-cars-fcev/
Sky City 1000: Sky City 1000 - Wikipedia
Public Transport (Bus systems): Better Bus Systems Could Slow Climate Change
Public Transport (Train systems): Post-pandemic, Public Transport Needs to Get Back on Track to Meet Global Climate Goals
Eurostar News: Eurostar Announces 100% Renewable Energy Goal of 2030

Christian Stuff
2040 Euphrates: The Future of the Euphrates River
China Army Potential: https://apps.dtic.mil/sti/pdfs/ADA358007.pdf

We have a free market & one can go buy them but they are not appropriate for everyone. A hybrid is better. Certainly govts can pay for electric buses & such. First EVs are expensive. The politicians really don't want to invest in charging stations. They really want you install in your own garage which is also a formidable expense. Not one EV station that was targeted in the Federal Omnibus Act has been installed. Only those from state or private sectors. There is little glory in a charging station. The fact is you would have to literally blanket the planet with them because don't forget at any rest stop this is an issue of time. You don't charge in 3 minutes. How many people can afford to wait for hours. Think of the visitors who are at national parks, ballgames, college campuses. There would be lines of people. The govt thinks 50 stations would be fine. They simply don't have an appreciation of the number. My biggest concern is traffic jams created by accidents or some natural hazard & people try to seek refuge or even get out of work per order of the governor. On heatwave days this can be a critical health situation as traffic stalls. Ditto in the coldwave situation. Picture a hurricane or better yet earthquake. How could be people reliable evacuate? They can't.

 

[AlexB23]

We have a free market & one can go buy them but they are not appropriate for everyone. A hybrid is better. Certainly govts can pay for electric buses & such. First EVs are expensive. The politicians really don't want to invest in charging stations. They really want you install in your own garage which is also a formidable expense. Not one EV station that was targeted in the Federal Omnibus Act has been installed. Only those from state or private sectors. There is little glory in a charging station. The fact is you would have to literally blanket the planet with them because don't forget at any rest stop this is an issue of time. You don't charge in 3 minutes. How many people can afford to wait for hours. Think of the visitors who are at national parks, ballgames, college campuses. There would be lines of people. The govt thinks 50 stations would be fine. They simply don't have an appreciation of the number. My biggest concern is traffic jams created by accidents or some natural hazard & people try to seek refuge or even get out of work per order of the governor. On heatwave days this can be a critical health situation as traffic stalls. Ditto in the coldwave situation. Picture a hurricane or better yet earthquake. How could be people reliable evacuate? They can't.

I agree. Hybrids are a better choice. EVs need infrastructure which is not out already, and are not feasible for low density countries such as the US, until charging times can be shortened to under 15 minutes.

 

[AlexB23]

This short just showed up in my feed today (the "real story" is in the comments)...

Hot metal roof would ruin efficiency of these flexible panels. Probably some cheap Chinese stuff that gets 5% efficiency or below.

 

[Reasonably Sane]

Hot metal roof would ruin efficiency of these flexible panels. Probably some cheap Chinese stuff that gets 5% efficiency or below.

Yep the comments on that video are pretty brutal, and along the lines of what you posted.

 

[AlexB23]

Yep the comments on that video are pretty brutal, and along the lines of what you posted.

Yeah, cos the way the tech was implemented is bad. I looked at the comments also, and agree wholeheartedly with them.

 

[timewerx]

no hydrating at 110 degrees?! That's nuts!

BTW, just before the new road to the Mt. St. Helens visitor center was opened after it blew, a friend of mine and I started at the bottom and rode the roughly 20 miles to the top. It was an awesome and very wide two lane highway with wide switchbacks that could be navigated by RV's. But it was closed that day, at least to motor traffic. We rested at the top and then turned around and coasted all the way back, using our legs only as shock absorbers. The speed and silence of the bikes allowed us to sneak up on a few Elk. The switchbacks were large enough radius that we rarely had to slow down. Interestingly, my legs were still exhausted at the bottom since I was pretty much partly standing up on the pedals all the way down. I'll never forget it.

Sounds fun, I never had a ride with sparse traffic. The mountain roads I travel near the city have relatively heavy traffic even 6am in the weekends.

Heavy braking in the downhill parts due to traffic which really kills my average speed. Good thing I weigh so little or I'll be replacing the brake pads and rotors frequently.

I was experimenting on myself based on metabolic research I read that was performed on animals but never on humans. I progressively reduced my consumption of food and water over a period of several months using same route and distance over the mountains. I waited on the body adaptations to take place before moving on to the next stage. At the end of it, I wasn't eating nor drinking anything on the nonstop, no rest ride in the mountains. I'm enduring dehydration levels that would be fatal to many without ill effects to myself.

During the highest temperatures, I sweat acid and even my blood tasted like acid. It bleached the clothes I wore on rides and made the fabric brittle and corroded the aluminum frame of my bicycle. I got no ill effects otherwise and recovery performance remained excellent. It's really weird. The only animal this occurs naturally are the vultures although they don't sweat but their urine is quite acidic which suggest their blood would be acidic too.

 

[timewerx]

Oh sure, but could you live on Titan without a suit?

The cold will kill me though! I never tried to adapt to cold temperatures though. It's way simpler and easier to store body heat with insulation in a cold environment than getting rid of body heat in a hot and humid environment due to the way the Laws of Thermodynamics work.

 

[timewerx]

The inspiration for my post was the movie of the same name. A guy was genetically modified over time to survive on Titan naked. It was kinda comical. He made it, but he couldn't live on earth.

I watched the film. It made a bit of sense. Artificial life support is prone to failures and requires maintenance and energy.. At least, he won't have to worry those things living for long term in Titan and helps improve mission chance of success.

In a way, I'm also trying to adapt to worsening global warming in advance.

 

[DennisF]

Greetings, fellow tech enthusiasts. Today's post is a companion to a Conversation About Solar Panels, part of a short series on green energy, transportation and the environment, as we are called to be good stewards and caretakers of the Earth. This post will cover EVs and transportation, including the pros and cons of different transport systems. Sources are listed at the bottom of this post.

Electric Cars: Electric cars have been around for over 130 years, since the 1800s. In 1888, a German engineer built the first mainstream electric car, the Flocken Electrowagen. Sadly, petrol cars overtook electric cars in popularity during the early 20th century. Nowadays, Tesla, Chevy and Nissan along with other manufacturers have revived the electric car since the 2010s, helping to reduce emissions over the long run. Electric cars do have their downsides though. First off, cars are still cars, no matter if the vehicle is electrified. Rail, buses and bike paths can carry far more people compared to a car.

Also, EVs have been under the scrutiny for human rights violations, including the use of child labor to mine the minerals for the batteries. Teslas and EVs also weight much more compared to other cars, and therefore can cause +40% more wear and tear on road surfaces compared to gasoline powered brethren. However, even with these drawbacks, an EV is much better choice compared to a gas car.

Hybrids: Hybrid vehicles, which use a combination of an internal combustion engine and an electric motor, can serve as a bridge between traditional gasoline cars and fully electric vehicles. They offer better fuel efficiency and lower emissions than conventional cars but still have the convenience of a gasoline engine for longer trips or in areas where charging infrastructure is limited.

Fuel Cells: Fuel Cell Electric Vehicles (FCEVs), represented by models like the Toyota Mirai, operate via a unique mechanism that generates electricity using hydrogen (H2) and oxygen from the atmosphere. Inside the vehicle, hydrogen is kept under pressure within storage tanks. As the driver accelerates, this hydrogen and ambient air enter the fuel cell stack where an electrochemical reaction takes place. This reaction produces electricity, water vapor, and heat - all harmless waste products. The produced electricity propels an electric motor connected to the driveshaft, enabling movement. Unlike internal combustion engines found in fossil or biofuel powered vehicles, these systems do not emit pollutants like carbon dioxide or nitrogen oxides.

Compared to charging battery-electric vehicles, filling up a FCEV at a hydrogen station takes just about three minutes, making refueling fast and convenient. Maintenance requirements for FCEVs are also reduced since they have fewer moving components than regular automobiles. Additionally, they generally do not require oil changes and necessitate less frequent maintenance overall because of their simplified engine structure. Overall, FCEVs represent a significant step forward towards sustainable transportation solutions with minimal environmental impact.

Public Transport: Public transportation is a staple in European and Asian cities, as well as some cities in the Americas. Cities with a reliable rail or bus network rely less on personal vehicles. Public transportation has lower carbon emissions per person, especially when the buses and trains are run at a reasonable capacity. Rail especially can be easily run on clean electricity. Eurostar, a European rail line is expected to convert to 100% renewable energy by 2030, reducing European railway carbon emissions from low to even lower.

Walkable Cities: Some cities in Europe have stores and amenities much closer to each other compared to American cities. For instance, in Spain, it took only 5 minutes for me to walk to the store with my parents on our 2019 trip in Seville. This means that less gas and fuel have to be used for getting food or going to other amenities. A 1989 Japanese concept tower (never built) took this even further, with a height of 1000 m (3300 ft). This Sky City 1000 would have multiple amenities, and be a fully self contained car-free city, where people could walk to other amenities, or take a high speed elevator between almost 200 floors.


Word for Christians (feel free to skip): In 2040, the Euphrates river is expected to dry up, according to the Iraqi Ministry of Water Resources, due to dryer climates from anthropogenic global warming. The Bible says in Revelation that the Euphrates will dry up in the end times. Seems that human caused global warming might be one of those signs of the times that we are living in. So, if we want to delay this river from evaporating, we might want to use cleaner energy. If the river dries up, maybe China could have the capability of sending people or an army over it (Revelation 9:16–18), in order to get natural resources or take over the Middle East. Though, no one knows when the end times will happen (Matthew 24:36), and we as Christians must avoid speculation (James 14:13-15).


Electric horseless carriage (1888)
View attachment 350546

Sky City 1000
View attachment 350572

Sources
Luxembourg buses: Public transport
Tesla human rights issues: https://www.sec.gov/Archives/edgar/data/1318605/000121465920007479/d826200px14a6g.htm
Road wear and tear: Are electric cars too heavy for roads, bridges and car parks?
Hydrogen FCEVs: https://www.caranddriver.com/features/a41103863/hydrogen-cars-fcev/
Sky City 1000: Sky City 1000 - Wikipedia
Public Transport (Bus systems): Better Bus Systems Could Slow Climate Change
Public Transport (Train systems): Post-pandemic, Public Transport Needs to Get Back on Track to Meet Global Climate Goals
Eurostar News: Eurostar Announces 100% Renewable Energy Goal of 2030

Christian Stuff
2040 Euphrates: The Future of the Euphrates River
China Army Potential: https://apps.dtic.mil/sti/pdfs/ADA358007.pdf

"Though, no one knows when the end times will happen (Matthew 24:36), and we as Christians must avoid speculation (James 14:13-15)."

While this is true on the face of it, these verses can be overextended to mean that nobody will have a clue as to when the end times are here, and Christians must cease efforts to study biblical eschatology. You probably do not mean to go that far, and careful reading of Matthew 24 says "the day nor the hour", not the month nor the year, no less the century. So what is the point of eschatology? Scripture gives enough detail on "the last days" so that anyone who can read carefully and do some textual and archaeological studies, know important missing aspects of Western history, and understand our times in some depth ("deep state" for instance involves depth) can make progress in unraveling the mystery of biblical eschatology. Step one is to disabuse one's self of a "Bible World" view of scripture, as though it is a different reality than the one we live in, and for Step two, not assume that the translators have done their job correctly. Too often they - nearly all of them - have not.

As for the transportation problem, the more basic problem is the energy problem. Where does it come from? EVs and FCEVs both require electricity: EVs directly, stored in batteries, and FCEVs in the electrolysis of water to obtain hydrogen, an energy-intensive process, even with more recent refinements. The energy for both of these and for internal-combustion engines comes from underground hydrocarbons. The real problem is to find a viable alternative to them, and the most likely solution is new-generation nuclear using thorium fuel and maybe even low-temperature fusion. The Chinese are building a thorium nuclear facility and the nuclear research facility in Idaho, west of ID Falls, is also working on it. Fast-flux fission reactors are as advanced over the WWII-era slow-flux nuclear as solid-state electronics is over electron tubes. The new nuclear technology solves all of the major problems (radioactive waste, nuclear explosions, maybe even power control). Unless or until it is discovered how to tap energy from the vacuum, nuclear schemes are the feasible way forward.

 

[AlexB23]

"Though, no one knows when the end times will happen (Matthew 24:36), and we as Christians must avoid speculation (James 14:13-15)."

While this is true on the face of it, these verses can be overextended to mean that nobody will have a clue as to when the end times are here, and Christians must cease efforts to study biblical eschatology. You probably do not mean to go that far, and careful reading of Matthew 24 says "the day nor the hour", not the month nor the year, no less the century. So what is the point of eschatology? Scripture gives enough detail on "the last days" so that anyone who can read carefully and do some textual and archaeological studies, know important missing aspects of Western history, and understand our times in some depth ("deep state" for instance involves depth) can make progress in unraveling the mystery of biblical eschatology. Step one is to disabuse one's self of a "Bible World" view of scripture, as though it is a different reality than the one we live in, and for Step two, not assume that the translators have done their job correctly. Too often they - nearly all of them - have not.

As for the transportation problem, the more basic problem is the energy problem. Where does it come from? EVs and FCEVs both require electricity: EVs directly, stored in batteries, and FCEVs in the electrolysis of water to obtain hydrogen, an energy-intensive process, even with more recent refinements. The energy for both of these and for internal-combustion engines comes from underground hydrocarbons. The real problem is to find a viable alternative to them, and the most likely solution is new-generation nuclear using thorium fuel and maybe even low-temperature fusion. The Chinese are building a thorium nuclear facility and the nuclear research facility in Idaho, west of ID Falls, is also working on it. Fast-flux fission reactors are as advanced over the WWII-era slow-flux nuclear as solid-state electronics is over electron tubes. The new nuclear technology solves all of the major problems (radioactive waste, nuclear explosions, maybe even power control). Unless or until it is discovered how to tap energy from the vacuum, nuclear schemes are the feasible way forward.

Yep, I remember those verses, and have made a devotional on avoiding speculation.

Energy is a problem for transport, so nuclear technology would be a good idea. Imagine a walkable city powered by nuclear reactors. Then, one could no longer have to rely on fossil fuels. The United States has fallen behind China with technology, so the US, and the Western world itself needs to band together to increase technological innovation before China leaves us in the dust.

 

[timewerx]

Unless or until it is discovered how to tap energy from the vacuum, nuclear schemes are the feasible way forward.

It's mentally simpler to just try to figure out how to tap energy from individual kinetic energy of air molecules with room temperature air than quantum vacuum fluctuations.

It's been done already and fundamental and applied science passing peer-reviewed studies. Ironically, the principles are similar between statistical mechanics and quantum mechanics.

It's only a matter of ramping up the power output which seems to be the hardest part to figure out at the moment.

This is the energy source that produce the least pollution. It may not even require special materials (could possibly be made with only common alloys like stainless steel, aluminum alloys, etc). It doesn't produce any waste heat but the opposite.

I'm particularly interested with this solution with my interest in cryptocurrencies. Crypto mining requires lots of energy and produces lots of waste heat. Put these two together and theoretically it can reduce energy consumption of crypto mining close to zero by recycling the waste heat back into electricity.

Using these in transport would eliminate the use of batteries that are made from toxic materials that are also a major fire hazard in a crash and a very serious fire hazard for air transport both during normal operations and during a crash.

 

[DennisF]

Yep, I remember those verses, and have made a devotional on avoiding speculation.

Energy is a problem for transport, so nuclear technology would be a good idea. Imagine a walkable city powered by nuclear reactors. Then, one could no longer have to rely on fossil fuels. The United States has fallen behind China with technology, so the US, and the Western world itself needs to band together to increase technological innovation before China leaves us in the dust.

China, Russia, India - in short, the BRICS countries - will leave the West in the dust only because the West is infected with the attitude of hostile superiority over the rest of the world. Those at the heart of the conflict in the West are the psychopathic narcissists who have taken control of Western institutions and the minds of its people.

 

[AlexB23]

China, Russia, India - in short, the BRICS countries - will leave the West in the dust only because the West is infected with the attitude of hostile superiority over the rest of the world. Those at the heart of the conflict in the West are the psychopathic narcissists who have taken control of Western institutions and the minds of its people.

The West also focuses too much on profit, and not on long term sustainability.

 

[AlexB23]

Guys, I am an old-soul here who enjoys modern stuff as well, so this article about a 1923 electric car might be interesting to y'all. Goes to show that EVs were possible back then, and did not require any cobalt back then. Also, from a different article, a Chinese washer company built an electric race car that uses front load washing machine motors to drive the wheels in 2019.

1923 Detroit Electric:

https://www.hemmings.com/stories/the-1923-detroit-electric-model-90-was-the-tesla-of-its-day/

Haier used washing machine motors in a car (2019):

Global Racing Team Builds Formula Race Car With A Washing Machine Motor, Finally - Jalopnik

If you’re like most people, you wake up most mornings and immediately check your Telex machine to see if there’s been any announcements that someone has finally built an open-wheeled formula race car that is powered by the motor from a washing machine. Most mornings end in bitter disappointment...

jalopnik.com

Detroit Electric Article Summary:
The article was published by Hemmings on February 14, 2024. In the piece, Mark J. McCourt discusses how electric vehicles have gained broad acceptance over the past decade and mentions that sales in the U.S market are expected to exceed one million units when final 2023 figures are tallied. The article also shares historical information about the Detroit Electric cars of a century ago, which were popular among well-to-do city dwellers and famous personalities like Thomas A. Edison. These vehicles featured centrally mounted DC motors and ran on nickel-iron batteries, offering low-effort transportation with quiet operation compared to contemporary automobiles. The steep cost of the Model 90 Detroit Electric car kept demand low during its production in the early 1920s. By 1926, production had mostly stopped due to a shift towards internal combustion engines. Approximately 13,500 Detroit Electrics were built before the company's closure in 1939, and few remain today. The article notes that classic.com lists only six sales of Detroit Electric cars since 2015.

Racing Team Car with Washing Machine Motors Summary:
Hong Kong-based Craft Bamboo developed the Formula Haier car around the direct-drive washing machine motor, which makes 660 W of power. This car uses appliance motors to generate 45 Nm of torque. Also, someone in the comments section of the article said "[The car is] fast enough to make a clean getaway, not so fast you soil yourself". Man, I love dad jokes and puns.

 

[DennisF]

Guys, I am an old-soul here who enjoys modern stuff as well, so this article about a 1923 electric car might be interesting to y'all. Goes to show that EVs were possible back then, and did not require any cobalt back then. Also, from a different article, a Chinese washer company built an electric race car that uses front load washing machine motors to drive the wheels in 2019.

1923 Detroit Electric:

https://www.hemmings.com/stories/the-1923-detroit-electric-model-90-was-the-tesla-of-its-day/

Haier used washing machine motors in a car (2019):

Global Racing Team Builds Formula Race Car With A Washing Machine Motor, Finally - Jalopnik

If you’re like most people, you wake up most mornings and immediately check your Telex machine to see if there’s been any announcements that someone has finally built an open-wheeled formula race car that is powered by the motor from a washing machine. Most mornings end in bitter disappointment...

jalopnik.com

Detroit Electric Article Summary:
The article was published by Hemmings on February 14, 2024. In the piece, Mark J. McCourt discusses how electric vehicles have gained broad acceptance over the past decade and mentions that sales in the U.S market are expected to exceed one million units when final 2023 figures are tallied. The article also shares historical information about the Detroit Electric cars of a century ago, which were popular among well-to-do city dwellers and famous personalities like Thomas A. Edison. These vehicles featured centrally mounted DC motors and ran on nickel-iron batteries, offering low-effort transportation with quiet operation compared to contemporary automobiles. The steep cost of the Model 90 Detroit Electric car kept demand low during its production in the early 1920s. By 1926, production had mostly stopped due to a shift towards internal combustion engines. Approximately 13,500 Detroit Electrics were built before the company's closure in 1939, and few remain today. The article notes that classic.com lists only six sales of Detroit Electric cars since 2015.

Racing Team Car with Washing Machine Motors Summary:
Hong Kong-based Craft Bamboo developed the Formula Haier car around the direct-drive washing machine motor, which makes 660 W of power. This car uses appliance motors to generate 45 Nm of torque. Also, someone in the comments section of the article said "[The car is] fast enough to make a clean getaway, not so fast you soil yourself". Man, I love dad jokes and puns.

It is a shame that NiFe batteries are not manufactured in the USA for general commercial use. They are the optimal battery chemistry for off-grid power because they have longer than a human lifetime which is not degraded much by undercharge or overcharge, and the electrolyte is KOH and LiOH which is a safe, not flammable, electrolyte. They cost a little more than lead-acid batteries, but that mainly depends on the relative prices of nickel and lead. On the downside for vehicles, they are suboptimal, having much lower specific energy and energy density. That is not an important parameter for stationary, off-grid systems where the volume and weight of the battery bank does not matter much. But it does in a vehicle.

 

[AlexB23]

It is a shame that NiFe batteries are not manufactured in the USA for general commercial use. They are the optimal battery chemistry for off-grid power because they have longer than a human lifetime which is not degraded much by undercharge or overcharge, and the electrolyte is KOH and LiOH which is a safe, not flammable, electrolyte. They cost a little more than lead-acid batteries, but that mainly depends on the relative prices of nickel and lead. On the downside for vehicles, they are suboptimal, having much lower specific energy and energy density. That is not an important parameter for stationary, off-grid systems where the volume and weight of the battery bank does not matter much. But it does in a vehicle.

Agreed.

 

[Bob Crowley]

I'm hoping that by the time we buy our next car (a few years away obviously), and assuming we can still afford it as we're both retired and getting on in years, that there is sufficient infrastructure for hydrogen cars (FCEVs) to be a reality where I live (South East Queensland in Ausralia).

Fuel Cells: Fuel Cell Electric Vehicles (FCEVs), represented by models like the Toyota Mirai, operate via a unique mechanism that generates electricity using hydrogen (H2) and oxygen from the atmosphere. Inside the vehicle, hydrogen is kept under pressure within storage tanks. As the driver accelerates, this hydrogen and ambient air enter the fuel cell stack where an electrochemical reaction takes place. This reaction produces electricity, water vapor, and heat - all harmless waste products. The produced electricity propels an electric motor connected to the driveshaft, enabling movement. Unlike internal combustion engines found in fossil or biofuel powered vehicles, these systems do not emit pollutants like carbon dioxide or nitrogen oxides.

Compared to charging battery-electric vehicles, filling up a FCEV at a hydrogen station takes just about three minutes, making refueling fast and convenient. Maintenance requirements for FCEVs are also reduced since they have fewer moving components than regular automobiles. Additionally, they generally do not require oil changes and necessitate less frequent maintenance overall because of their simplified engine structure. Overall, FCEVs represent a significant step forward towards sustainable transportation solutions with minimal environmental impact.

It's going to be a while though. The hypothetical emphasis in the early stages will be on heavy transport. There is an agreement between 3 states - NSW, Victoria and Queensland - to promote a heavy vehicle network up the east coast of Australia.

Qld, NSW, Vic reach interstate hydrogen highway agreement

The three eastern seaboard states have made a start on a project to build a “renewable hydrogen” highway, with the state governments of Queensland, New South Wales, and Victoria signing an agreement to develop hydrogen refueling infrastructure for heavy trucking. The memorandum of understanding...

www.innovationaus.com

That agreement, if implemented, would go from Melbourne to Brisbane via the Hume and Pacific Highway, and/or the Newell highwey further west.

For it to have much impact in Queensland it would need to to extend 1700 more kilometers to cover the Bruce Highway from Brisbane to Cairns (distance 1696 kms) with refuelling stations in the major regional centres (heading north) of Rockhampton (and nearby Gladstone which is not on the highway), Mackay, Townsville and Cairns.

There is an H2 hub being built in stages in Gladstone

H2-Hub Gladstone

www.statedevelopment.qld.gov.au

I think there would need to be another station around or near Childers about halfway to Rockhampton. This would also be within reach of what we call the Wide Bay area.

But it hasn't gone far. There is a bloke in this link who has a security business in Melbourne and he's using hydrogen cars. There is also a regional bus company moving towards hydrogen buses. It's particularly suitable for buses which do a fixed route each day and then can refuel back at base with a home base hydrogen producing plant.

Just six hydrogen cars were sold here last year — we tracked down their owners to ask why and how

The world's biggest automobile maker is pushing hydrogen cars. Some energy economists say Toyota's bet isn't paying off and Australia shouldn't waste money on fuelling infrastructure that might become "stranded assets".

www.abc.net.au

How rainwater is fuelling this fleet of green hydrogen coaches

A regional transport service in central Queensland has opted to switch its fleet of diesel-powered buses to hydrogen fuel cell electric ones in a move it says is an Australian-first for a private company.

www.abc.net.au

The infrastructure is in its infancy in Australia, whereas electric cars can refuel almost anywhere there is a power point.

 

[AlexB23]

I'm hoping that by the time we buy our next car (a few years away obviously), and assuming we can still afford it as we're both retired and getting on in years, that there is sufficient infrastructure for hydrogen cars (FCEVs) to be a reality where I live (South East Queensland in Ausralia).


It's going to be a while though. The hypothetical emphasis in the early stages will be on heavy transport. There is an agreement between 3 states - NSW, Victoria and Queensland - to promote a heavy vehicle network up the east coast of Australia.

Qld, NSW, Vic reach interstate hydrogen highway agreement

The three eastern seaboard states have made a start on a project to build a “renewable hydrogen” highway, with the state governments of Queensland, New South Wales, and Victoria signing an agreement to develop hydrogen refueling infrastructure for heavy trucking. The memorandum of understanding...

www.innovationaus.com

That agreement, if implemented, would go from Melbourne to Brisbane via the Hume and Pacific Highway, and/or the Newell highwey further west.

For it to have much impact in Queensland it would need to to extend 1700 more kilometers to cover the Bruce Highway from Brisbane to Cairns (distance 1696 kms) with refuelling stations in the major regional centres (heading north) of Rockhampton (and nearby Gladstone which is not on the highway), Mackay, Townsville and Cairns.

There is an H2 hub being built in stages in Gladstone

H2-Hub Gladstone

www.statedevelopment.qld.gov.au

I think there would need to be another station around or near Childers about halfway to Rockhampton. This would also be within reach of what we call the Wide Bay area.

But it hasn't gone far. There is a bloke in this link who has a security business in Melbourne and he's using hydrogen cars. There is also a regional bus company moving towards hydrogen buses. It's particularly suitable for buses which do a fixed route each day and then can refuel back at base with a home base hydrogen producing plant.

Just six hydrogen cars were sold here last year — we tracked down their owners to ask why and how

The world's biggest automobile maker is pushing hydrogen cars. Some energy economists say Toyota's bet isn't paying off and Australia shouldn't waste money on fuelling infrastructure that might become "stranded assets".

www.abc.net.au

How rainwater is fuelling this fleet of green hydrogen coaches

A regional transport service in central Queensland has opted to switch its fleet of diesel-powered buses to hydrogen fuel cell electric ones in a move it says is an Australian-first for a private company.

www.abc.net.au

The infrastructure is in its infancy in Australia, whereas electric cars can refuel almost anywhere there is a power point.

I think it is best for where you live that a hybrid would meet your needs while still being green. Hydrogen fuel cells would work better for semi trucks (lorries) and heavy machinery. It is cool that Australia is trying to work on H2 infrastructure. When will this highway be completed?

 

[Bob Crowley]

We have had a hybrid for about a year plus a 13:year old small petrol car. I'm thinking down the track when we trade in the older car

Intention would be to use H2 vehicle locally and hybrid for longer trips if need be. That's the theory anyway.