Los Angeles is shutting down its largest natural gas power plant — and replacing it with an unproven hydrogen project

[essentialsaltes]

A small-time municipality like LADWP

The Los Angeles Department of Water and Power (LADWP) is the largest municipal utility in the United States with 8,100 megawatts of electric generating capacity (2021-2022) and delivering an average of 435 million gallons of water per day (487,000 acre-ft per year) to more than four million residents and local businesses in the City of Los Angeles

would be wise to simply buy power from the much more advanced, and much larger SoCal Edison.

SCE is ~4 times larger, yes, in terms of customers and total electricity delivery. But LA DWP is sizable enough to carry out large scale projects.

 

[Whyayeman]

This is exactly what I've read about the differences between the US and Oz in regards to solar. I didn't even need local council permission. No permits, no fees, no delays. Just get some quotes (and there are websites specifically set up to help you make a selection), make your selection and they'll install within a week in less than a day. I see solar being installed everywhere. It won't be long before it's considered unusual not to have it.

It is the same in the UK. No red tape at all. Ours were installed in less than a day the week after I accepted the quote.

 

[Whyayeman]

skeptics say it could ultimately emit more planet-warming carbon.

Yes, but it is not the case.

Once the plant is up and running carbon does not come into it.

To make hydrogen for cells or as a fuel: electrolyse water; that is pass an electric current derived from solar or wind power through water with an electrolyte dissolved in it - seawater is the easiest option. Collect the hydrogen. Release or bottle the oxygen.

We did this in the lab at school when I was twelve.

 

[DaisyDay]

This is exactly what I've read about the differences between the US and Oz in regards to solar. I didn't even need local council permission. No permits, no fees, no delays. Just get some quotes (and there are websites specifically set up to help you make a selection), make your selection and they'll install within a week in less than a day. I see solar being installed everywhere. It won't be long before it's considered unusual not to have it.

I wish it were that way here but for five years we have been trying to get solar but we live in a historic district and so far we have been refused.

Small city in western New York.

 

[Bradskii]

I wish it were that way here but for five years we have been trying to get solar but we live in a historic district and so far we have been refused.

Small city in western New York.

That's frustrating. My place is in a conservation area as well. So there are limits on what I can and cannot do. So I might not have been allowed to put them on the front of the roof. But it was more convenient to have them on the sides anyway.

 

[Whyayeman]

That's frustrating. My place is in a conservation area as well. So there are limits on what I can and cannot do. So I might not have been allowed to put them on the front of the roof. But it was more convenient to have them on the sides anyway.

Same here. Ours are round the back.

 

[ThatRobGuy]

I wish it were that way here but for five years we have been trying to get solar but we live in a historic district and so far we have been refused.

Small city in western New York.

I'm not sure if New York is the same as Cali in this regard, but in many cases in Cali, it seems like "red tape" (permitting fees, licensing fees, etc...) are a way to supplement or offset unsustainable spending policies in other areas, which is unfortunate.

On a large scale, I still don't think that solar is a viable option in terms of power generation at a "public utility" level in a lot of places, but it's certainly a good investment for some people. (my relatives in Canada who put it in actually cover their power needs, and generate enough extra that the local "hydro" branch as they call it, gives them a little bit of money every month to be able to tap into it for the excess...not a life changing amount, but free electricity for the rest of your life for yourself plus a $90 check in the mail every month isn't a bad thing for people who have the cash for the upfront investment)

It's a disincentive for people if their local and state governments are basically fleecing them for an extra $2800 in permitting fees in order to offset them being "in the red" on other spending programs and trying to compensate for it by milking people (who are well intentioned)

 

[Bradskii]

It's a disincentive for people if their local and state governments are basically fleecing them for an extra $2800 in permitting fees in order to offset them being "in the red" on other spending programs and trying to compensate for it by milking people (who are well intentioned)

That dollar figure isn't far off the federal rebate we got for installing ours. Rather than the government charging us to put it in, they actually give us money to encourage us to do so.

And we've got the same system whereby we feed unused power back into the system. My electricity supplier now pays me more for the electricity I sell to them than I pay for the electricity that they sell to me.

 

[ThatRobGuy]

That dollar figure isn't far off the federal rebate we got for installing ours. Rather than the government charging us to put it in, they actually give us money to encourage us to do so.

And we've got the same system whereby we feed unused power back into the system. My electricity supplier now pays me more for the electricity I sell to them than I pay for the electricity that they sell to me.

"Certain" states are like what you're describing here...unfortunately, there are more that see these things as a "new revenue stream" than the means to accomplish an unrelated goal.

Once I get back off of my "on the road camper life", I'll have to look into how easy vs. PITA it is with regards to Ohio rules, and how good of an ROI it would be.

I imagine down in Australia, you probably have a much more "solar friendly climate"

Ohio isn't exactly in the "sweet spot" in terms of getting a good return on investment with regards to going the solar route, so I'll have to crunch some numbers

Looks like Australia is much more conducive for it:

 

[Bradskii]

Looks like Australia is much more conducive for it:

But is that temp or hours sunshine? Checking Columbus, they get 2183 hours of sunshine per annum. And Sydney gets 2592. So that's 84%. Not a huge difference.

 

[ThatRobGuy]

But is that temp or hours sunshine? Checking Columbus, they get 2183 hours of sunshine per annum. And Sydney gets 2592. So that's 84%. Not a huge difference.

It maybe an "ohio thing" to know this lol, but the weather difference between Columbus and Northeast Ohio is quite drastic

Cleveland is the closest major city to where my "official residence" is.

Yeah yeah...I know I should relocate to somewhere better lol

 

[Whyayeman]

It maybe an "ohio thing" to know this lol, but the weather difference between Columbus and Northeast Ohio is quite drastic

Cleveland is the closest major city to where my "official residence" is.

View attachment 337776

Yeah yeah...I know I should relocate to somewhere better lol

Solar panels work better the more light there is, true. But if there is light, they generate. So day length is a factor as well as hours of direct sunshine.

Commercial scale solar farms are profitable - more so since the hike in other energy prices. In the UK there are two national grids connecting almost all household and commercial premises. Solar farms plug into the electricity grid, so there are few or no transport problems. Locality is not an issue.

Hydrogen production from off-peak electricity is easy for the same reason. Use excess electricity to produce hydrogen and pump it directly into the gas network. Modern gas fittings will cope with a proportion of hydrogen and most will work on pure hydrogen.

What's not to like?