Democrat Appellate Judge overturns half billion dollar fine

Vambram · Thursday at 6:16 PM

BCP1928 said:
It's not fraud if you get away with it. OK.

How can it be fraud when the banks did their own appraisal of Trump's real estate in Mar-a-Lago and the banks are completely happy with the repayments of the loan? Therefore, there was not fraud.

durangodawood · Thursday at 6:23 PM

Vambram said:
The progressive left wing liberal judge said he committed fraud. This is yet another example of the weaponization of lawfare during the years of the Biden administration.

What was it about the evidence that was wrong?

Vambram · Thursday at 8:59 PM

durangodawood said:
What was it about the evidence that was wrong?

That has already been discussed ad nauseum. I am not going to repeat myself.

Say it aint so · Thursday at 10:02 PM

Vambram said:
The progressive left wing liberal judge said he committed fraud. This is yet another example of the weaponization of lawfare during the years of the Biden administration.

New York Consolidated Laws, Executive Law - EXC § 63.

12. Whenever any person shall engage in repeated fraudulent or illegal acts or otherwise demonstrate persistent fraud or illegality in the carrying on, conducting or transaction of business, the attorney general may apply, in the name of the people of the state of New York, to the supreme court of the state of New York, on notice of five days, for an order enjoining the continuance of such business activity or of any fraudulent or illegal acts, directing restitution and damages and, in an appropriate case, cancelling any certificate filed under and by virtue of the provisions of section four hundred forty of the former penal law 2 or section one hundred thirty of the general business law, and the court may award the relief applied for or so much thereof as it may deem proper. The word “fraud” or “fraudulent” as used herein shall include any device, scheme or artifice to defraud and any deception, misrepresentation, concealment, suppression, false pretense, false promise or unconscionable contractual provisions. The term “persistent fraud” or “illegality” as used herein shall include continuance or carrying on of any fraudulent or illegal act or conduct. The term “repeated” as used herein shall include repetition of any separate and distinct fraudulent or illegal act, or conduct which affects more than one person. Notwithstanding any law to the contrary, all monies recovered or obtained under this subdivision by a state agency or state official or employee acting in their official capacity shall be subject to subdivision eleven of section four of the state finance law.

Well no, this appellate court let that decision stand. The man was literally cooking his books when inflating his assets for lower rates and premiums, and lowering them for tax purposes.

Vambram · Thursday at 10:57 PM

Say it aint so said:
New York Consolidated Laws, Executive Law - EXC § 63.
12. Whenever any person shall engage in repeated fraudulent or illegal acts or otherwise demonstrate persistent fraud or illegality in the carrying on, conducting or transaction of business, the attorney general may apply, in the name of the people of the state of New York, to the supreme court of the state of New York, on notice of five days, for an order enjoining the continuance of such business activity or of any fraudulent or illegal acts, directing restitution and damages and, in an appropriate case, cancelling any certificate filed under and by virtue of the provisions of section four hundred forty of the former penal law 2 or section one hundred thirty of the general business law, and the court may award the relief applied for or so much thereof as it may deem proper. The word “fraud” or “fraudulent” as used herein shall include any device, scheme or artifice to defraud and any deception, misrepresentation, concealment, suppression, false pretense, false promise or unconscionable contractual provisions. The term “persistent fraud” or “illegality” as used herein shall include continuance or carrying on of any fraudulent or illegal act or conduct. The term “repeated” as used herein shall include repetition of any separate and distinct fraudulent or illegal act, or conduct which affects more than one person. Notwithstanding any law to the contrary, all monies recovered or obtained under this subdivision by a state agency or state official or employee acting in their official capacity shall be subject to subdivision eleven of section four of the state finance law.

Well no, this appellate court let that decision stand. The man was literally cooking his books when inflating his assets for lower rates and premiums, and lowering them for tax purposes.

Trump did not inflate his assets. The banks made their own appraisal of Trump properties and they gladly made those loans to him, and would gladly do so again.

A2SG · Thursday at 11:44 PM

Vambram said:
How can it be fraud when the banks did their own appraisal of Trump's real estate in Mar-a-Lago and the banks are completely happy with the repayments of the loan? Therefore, there was not fraud.

Y'know, it's said that John Dillinger was so polite and respectful to the bank employees he was robbing that many of them felt he shouldn't have been arrested for the crime at all.

-- A2SG, just a random historical trivia tidbit....

Pommer · Thursday at 11:50 PM

Vambram said:
The progressive left wing liberal judge said he committed fraud. This is yet another example of the weaponization of lawfare during the years of the Biden administration.

~~Two~~ one assertion, is incomplete, and the other perpetuates the “always-the-victim“ motif of Donald Trump and the only proof is that you’ve decided that this is somehow “evidence”?
Sure, why not!?

Vambram · Friday at 12:01 AM

Pommer said:
~~Two~~ one assertion, is incomplete, and the other perpetuates the “always-the-victim“ motif of Donald Trump and the only proof is that you’ve decided that this is somehow “evidence”?
Sure, why not!?

Judge who fined Trump $500M gets the books thrown at him

Judge Arthur Engoron's $500 million fine against Donald Trump was rejected by an appellate court, with no portion of the judgment preserved.

www.foxnews.com

Pommer · Friday at 12:05 AM

Always in His Presence said:
Trump wins major victory: Appeals court overturns NYC civil fraud judgment

The decision came seven months after the Republican returned to the White House. A five-judge panel of New York's Appellate Division concluded that the $515 million judgment—originally set at $355 million plus interest—was "excessive" and unconstitutional under the Eighth Amendment.

There’s (at least) one more round, the State will appeal to the NY Court of Appeals, the final decider, and unless a Constitutional Right was involved, unreviewable by SCOTUS, since State Court rulings are usually sacrosanct.
Oh some lawfare can scape up a rights violation, somewhere, so it’s 50-50 if The Nine will get a say.

Vambram · Friday at 12:47 AM

Judge who fined Trump $500M gets the books thrown at him

Judge Arthur Engoron's $500 million fine against Donald Trump was rejected by an appellate court, with no portion of the judgment preserved.

www.foxnews.com

Vambram · Friday at 12:48 AM

New York defense attorney argues legal system was weaponized against Trump

New York defense attorney and political commentator Arthur Aidala said that President Donald Trump faced a clear weaponization of the legal system against him.

www.foxnews.com

A2SG · Friday at 1:04 AM

Vambram said:
Judge who fined Trump $500M gets the books thrown at him

Judge Arthur Engoron's $500 million fine against Donald Trump was rejected by an appellate court, with no portion of the judgment preserved.

www.foxnews.com

"Gets the book thrown at him"?? Leave it to Fox News to misrepresent what actually happened.

Fact is, the appeals court tossed the amount of the judgment. Period. They did not reverse the verdict. Trump is still guilty of fraud.

Vambram said:
New York defense attorney argues legal system was weaponized against Trump

New York defense attorney and political commentator Arthur Aidala said that President Donald Trump faced a clear weaponization of the legal system against him.

www.foxnews.com

Yeah, defense attorneys say stuff like that all the time. It's notable that no court has ruled that.

-- A2SG, until and unless that happens, Trump remains guilty of fraud.....

DaisyDay · Friday at 8:44 AM

A2SG said:
"Gets the book thrown at him"?? Leave it to Fox News to misrepresent what actually happened.

FoxNews published it as an opinion piece; Jonathan Turley wrote it.

A2SG said:
Fact is, the appeals court tossed the amount of the judgment. Period. They did not reverse the verdict. Trump is still guilty of fraud.

This may be appealed by the plaintiffs at the NY Supreme Court.

A2SG said:
Yeah, defense attorneys say stuff like that all the time. It's notable that no court has ruled that.

-- A2SG, until and unless that happens, Trump remains guilty of fraud.....

He, Arthur L. Aidala, is not just a defense attorney but a political pundit who has his own page on IMDB.

Yes, guilty of fraud on multiple fronts, sexual assault and felonies.

Say it aint so · Friday at 9:39 AM

Vambram said:
Trump did not inflate his assets. The banks made their own appraisal of Trump properties and they gladly made those loans to him, and would gladly do so again.

False.

Larson, a real estate brokerage executive and certified appraiser, assessed Trump properties for lenders. He was taken aback when told on the stand that he was repeatedly cited as an outside expert in former Trump Organization controller Jeffrey McConney ’s valuation spreadsheets.

“It’s inappropriate and inaccurate,” Larson testified. “I should have been told, and an appraisal should have been ordered.”

Yeshua HaDerekh · Friday at 10:30 AM

Say it aint so said:
False.

Larson, a real estate brokerage executive and certified appraiser, assessed Trump properties for lenders. He was taken aback when told on the stand that he was repeatedly cited as an outside expert in former Trump Organization controller Jeffrey McConney ’s valuation spreadsheets.

“It’s inappropriate and inaccurate,” Larson testified. “I should have been told, and an appraisal should have been ordered.”

Are you saying the banks never appraised anything and just loaned him the money? None of the banks said he defrauded them. They all got paid, right? James ran on "I am going to get Trump"...

Say it aint so · Friday at 10:53 AM

Yeshua HaDerekh said:
Are you saying the banks never appraised anything and just loaned him the money? None of the banks said he defrauded them. They all got paid, right? James ran on "I am going to get Trump"...

“It’s inappropriate and inaccurate,” Larson testified. “I should have been told, and an appraisal should have been ordered.”

This is how it works. The state of NY has rules. That NY statute I noted. It is there so all citizens of NY have a level playing field when comes to the lucrative and competitive market of NY real estate. If one entity is lying about their assets in light of cheaper interest rates and premiums while lying about their tax liabilities, they are literally defrauding the other citizens of NY who do those same kind of investments. The NY AG is the representative of the people of NY, which why the indictment was filed. With that said, if for example Trump as with is past six bankruptcies had to file again and defaulted on those loan(s), then yes that bank would have sure fire took Trump to court for inflating his assets.

rambot · Friday at 11:09 AM

1. He still did it.
2. He still broke the law

But listening to him speek you'd think he was exonerated.

But there's no inherent racism in the system. It's classist. Or maybe both but likely.

Rich white guys break the law all the time (in fact it was one of the arguments in defence of trump). Sooo often that the prosecution of Trump was characterized as targeted.

A black guy sells after market cigarettes and ends up getting killed by the police.

rambot · Friday at 11:10 AM

Yeshua HaDerekh said:
Are you saying the banks never appraised anything and just loaned him the money? None of the banks said he defrauded them. They all got paid, right? James ran on "I am going to get Trump"...

Bad faith argument.

If you don't understand how Trump broke the law read the court documents. It is not rhe obligation of posters here to inform you of such basic information.

Yeshua HaDerekh · Friday at 11:16 AM

Say it aint so said:
“It’s inappropriate and inaccurate,” Larson testified. “I should have been told, and an appraisal should have been ordered.”

This is how it works. The state of NY has rules. That NY statute I noted. It is there so all citizens of NY have a level playing field when comes to the lucrative and competitive market of NY real estate. If one entity is lying about their assets in light of cheaper interest rates and premiums while lying about their tax liabilities, they are literally defrauding the other citizens of NY who do those same kind of investments. The NY AG is the representative of the people of NY, which why the indictment was filed. With that said, if for example Trump as with is past six bankruptcies had to file again and defaulted on those loan(s), then yes that bank would have sure fire took Trump to court for inflating his assets.

And if all do it but James singles out Trump, that is just fine right? Also banks do NOT loan based on what an applicant tells them, they do their own appraisals...otherwise they would go under really quickly lol

Yeshua HaDerekh · Friday at 11:17 AM

rambot said:
Bad faith argument.

If you don't understand how Trump broke the law read the court documents. It is not rhe obligation of posters here to inform you of such basic information.

No it isn't. I understand how he was railroaded.

Democrat Appellate Judge overturns half billion dollar fine

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New York Consolidated Laws, Executive Law - EXC § 63.​

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Trump wins major victory: Appeals court overturns NYC civil fraud judgment​

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