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Do the Ten Commandments still apply under the new covenant today?
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I think you might have a misunderstand of God's covenant. Yes, God made a covenant with Abraham, but there was no Jew before Him, so in essence Abraham was the Father of the Jews who bore Isaac who bore Jacob which God renamed him to Israel, because he wrestled with God. Israel was just a name God gave to represent His people so we know who they are throughout the Bible. It is both literal and metaphorical. Ruth was absolutely grafted in and saved when she accepted God because God does not show partiality Rom 2:11. God choose Abraham because Abraham obeyed My voice and kept My charge, My commandments, My statutes, and My laws. Gen 26:5 He came on the scene right after the tower of Babel and after the flood when God destroyed the earth because the thoughts of his (mens) heart was only evil continually. The majority of people have always been against God and still are, even though some claim to be Christian. Only God knows who are the wheat and tares.
God cares about all men, not just Jew, it is those in Christ, like Ruth. There is no Scripture that says Ruth was not part of the Promise when she accepted God to be her God.
Gal 3:26 For you are all sons of God through faith in Christ Jesus. 27 For as many of you as were baptized into Christ have put on Christ. 28 There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither slave nor free, there is neither male nor female; for you are all one in Christ Jesus. 29 And if you are Christ’s, then you are Abraham’s seed, and heirs according to the promise.
Yes, there is no doubt that God made a covenant with Israel and still does, because Israel represents God's people, not based on nationality. He choose Israel because they walked with God, not because he was partial to Jews over man- God cares about the heart, not about our nationality. Why it says
Rom 9:6 But it is not that the word of God has taken no effect. For they are not all Israel who are of Israel, 7 nor are they all children because they are the seed of Abraham;
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Its not circumcision that is the issue Paul was speaking of, he said circumcision or no circumcision 1 Cor 7:19, what he was correcting that the Jews were teaching they could save themselves apart from Christ by cutting off their skin Acts 15:1 and before hearing the gospel Gal 2:3 this is the works of the law he was correcting, not that there is anything wrong with being circumcised.
Of course its not a work it is resting in Christ. When someone is obeying God's voice and keeping God's Ten Commandments because God has changed our hearts, it is not our work, it is God's Exo 32:16 and what He does in us John 14:15-18. It becomes our work, when we step outside of the work God provides and seek our own righteousness instead of God’s Psa 119:172 our own sanctification, instead of depending on God's Eze 20:12 that is depending on our own works for salvation instead of trusting in God's.
Paul gives us the definition plainly, we can choose to accept or not, that's our choice
Rom 3:19 Now we know that whatever the law says, it says to those who are under the law, that every mouth may be stopped, and all the world may become guilty before God.
Under the law mean under the condemnation of the law that we may be guilty before God. The wages of sin is death, that started from Creation, when Adam and Eve sinned, they died when they were meant to have eternal life. Its why the Father and the Son came up with a plan of salvation to take that curse for us. If all He had to do was take away the law, Jesus would not had to of died. The law stands and does the condemnation of the law, but through the blood of Jesus, He gives us another option that we can also die of self (sin) and be reborn in Christ, leaving the old man behind walking in newness with Christ, obeying His voice and His commandments because we love Him and He is the one doing the work inside us enabling us to keep His commandments and overcome sin John 14:15-18 Rev 14:12 which reconciles us Rev 22:14
Are you referring to the animal sacrifices in the law of Moses that was just a placeholder for Christ. No of course man can't fulfill this, only the blood of Christ can Heb 10:1-22 Heb 9:10-15
Sure we can through Christ. We can keep God's commandments though Christ who strengthens us Phi 4:13 John 14:15-18 Rev 14:12 if we don’t rebel what God placed in our hearts His law Heb 8:10 Rom 8:7-8 Heb 3:12-13
Teaching that not only should we not break the least of these commandments Mat 5:19, we should not even have thoughts that lead us to sin and break them and showing the true intent behind the Ten Commandments which is a changed heart. Why Jesus said when we break the commandments of God quoting from the Ten Commandments and replace with our own laws/traditions He said ones heart is far from Him, Mat 15:3-14 Mark 7:7-13 because people are depending on their own works and righteousness instead of depending on God's Psa 119:172 Isa 56:1-6 which is everlasting Psa 119:142 Rom 7:12 Mat 5:19 and His reconciles Rev 22:14 ours leaves us outside Rev 22:15
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pasifika
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what's in the New covenant? It's the Spirit which is Christ. (2 Corins 3)
Just as the old covenant "letters" written on tablet of stones, the new covenant it's the Spirit written on human hearts. (2Corins 3)
Just as the old covenant law (10C) were put in the Ark, so the new covenant law (Spirit) must put within our "minds". Jer 31 & Heb 8:10
etc....
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well I just want to inform you are following a false doctrine. Christ said very precisely what to do, to Follow the commandments and explained how to have eternal life but few listen.
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CoreyD
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There is nothing here that says Ruth was grafted in to the the Mosaic law covenant.
God made many covenants, and that Abrahamic covenant does benefit people of every nation. Genesis 22:18.
When you say "and still does" what do you mean?
You have read Jeremiah 31:31, 32, haven't you?
31 o“Behold, the days are coming, declares the Lord, when I will make pa new covenant with the house of Israel and the house of Judah, 32 not like the covenant that I made with their fathers on the day when qI took them by the hand to bring them out of the land of Egypt, my covenant that they broke, rthough I was their husband, declares the Lord.
This is a new covenant, and this Israel is not Israel by nationality. It is a 'new nation'.
The former covenants was broken, and what happened to it? You said nothing happened to it.
However, the Bible does not agree with you. Please read Hebrews 8:5-9:1
Speaking of a new covenant, he made the first one obsolete and vanishing away. The former commandment is set aside Hebrews 7:18, 19, and ended Romans 10:4 with the abolishing of the law of commandments. Ephesians 2:11-18
This is not an idea, persons made up. It's actually what the Bible really says.
When was Jeremiah 31:31-34 fulfilled?
The Bible does not say God "choose Israel because they walked with God"?
Where did you read that... or is this what you were told?
To the contrary, it was because of the covenant made with his friend. Deuteronomy 9:4-6;
The nation of Israel was to be the holy nation of priests - a special property. Exodus 19:5, 6
The fulfillment of the Abrahamic covenant depended on their existence. Hence why God did not wipe them out in the wilderness. Even Moses lost out.
The kingdom of priests was to come through the line of Judah, and so, it had to remain.
Yes, God is not like man.
The law is not circumcision, and in the 40+ places in the Bible, where Paul, speaks of the works of the law, he does not refer to circumcision.
That's made clear in Romans 3:19-31; Romans 7:4-20; Galatians 2:15-3:25
Paul even refers to where the law says "Do not covet", and makes reference to his earlier statement in Romans 3:20.
However, you are free to believe what you want.
Why do you ask that question?
I did not ask you about specific laws, or ordinances in the Mosaic law?
I asked about the Mosaic Law. The same one we have been talking about. There is only one.
In case you still don't know what that is. This one. Exodus 21:8; Exodus 34:27, 28; Deuteronomy 31:24-26
It's the same law Jesus spoke of, at John 7:19
Can you please answer that question.
Yes, the Bible says we can fulfill the law of Christ. Galatians 6:2
However, only Christ fulfill the Mosaic law. We all fail. Galatians 3:10-14
Do you disagree?
Would you agree Jesus is teaching the principles of the law, or the spirit of the law? Matthew 12:1-8
I am not quite sure if you did answer my questions.
I didn't see an answer, and I don't want to assume.
What was your answer for...Who were the first Jews chosen, to be part of the new nation - the holy nation - the new covenant - the Israel of God?
Was your answer to the second question - Who were the first Gentiles, to be grafted into this nation? Ruth?
I want to be sure, so that I respond to you, rather than an assumption.
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The Mosaic covenant is different than the covenant with God, the Ten Commandments Exo 34:28 Deut 4:13 that God made to Israel, which represents His people. I will explain this in detail a little later in this post.
Regardless, I beleive Ruth was grafted in through her faith
Ruth 1:16 But Ruth said:
“Entreat me not to leave you,
Or to turn back from following after you;
For wherever you go, I will go;
And wherever you lodge, I will lodge;
Your people shall be my people,
And your God, my God.
Ruth was grafted into God's covenant Promise Gal 3:26-29 through faith. Naomi's people (Israel) became her people and their God became her God. She lived with the Israelites, she married an Israelite, she worshiped the same God and I do not beleive for one minute she was not grafted into the promise. You have no Scripture that says she wasn't, its the same God in the NT as in the OT and He always looks at the heart.
Where does it say "New Nation" anywhere in the verse you quoted. Why add what's not there, something we are warned not to do. Pro 30:5-6 it does say the covenant is still made with the house of Israel and house of Judah. We are grafted in through faith, not by nationality but by faith. Jews have to be grafted in as well. Rom 9:6
I never said nothing happened to it, not sure where that came from
I have many, many times, lets look at the Old Covenant first and than look at the promise of God, who doesn't break His promises and than look at the New Covenant in its proper light.
Exo 34:28 So he was there with the Lord forty days and forty nights; he neither ate bread nor drank water. And He wrote on the tablets the words of the covenant, the Ten Commandments.
Deut 4:13 So He declared to you His covenant which He commanded you to perform, the Ten Commandments; and He wrote them on two tablets of stone.
The old covenant was the Ten Commandments- God's law written on stone for its eternal nature written by the God of the Universe His personal Testimony
Exo 31:18 And when He had made an end of speaking with him on Mount Sinai, He gave Moses two tablets of the Testimony, tablets of stone, written with the finger of God.
No more was added, this is a stand alone unit Deut 5:22, that God in His own Words claimed as "My commandments" Exo 20:6 So we don't need to guess what they are when we see this written throughout our Bibles because God defined His own law, both written and spoken by God and what sits under His mercy seat also revealed in heaven Heb 8:1-5 Rev 11:19
What did God promise about His covenant
Psa 89:34 My covenant I will not break,
Nor alter the word that has gone out of My lips.
Because we can't make something perfect for converting our soul Psa 19:7, written by our perfect Savior more perfect
God said He would not have made a second agreement had the Israelites not broke it, but THEY did not continue in it. You can read this in the verses you sited.
So God in His longsuffering for mankind, instead of destroying His people, He writes a New Covenant. Not like the one He gave to their fathers, but this one will be ESTABLISHED on better promises Heb 8:6. not new laws as most teach, keeping His promise to not alter His words, not a jot or tittle Mat 5:18
So God writes His laws (Exo 20:6) from written on stone to now written in our hearts and minds of His covenant people, so we internalizes them, they become part of who we are. He doesn't write His laws on stony hearts who rebel against His law Rom 8:7-8, but He gives us a new spirit Eze 36:26 and He is the one doing in the New Covenant Heb 8:10 as the old one was established on what the people would do Exo 19:8 so its a much better promise that we can obey God's law through our love and faith when we cooperate with the Spirit and He is the one enabling us to keep John 14:15-18 Acts 5:32
Agreed
This in context is referring to the old priesthood. The law that had to change was the priesthood because it said priests had to come from the tribe of Levi and in order for Jesus to be our High Priest in the New Covenant the necessity of the law (of the priesthood ) had to change because Jesus came from the tribe of Judah.
It doesn't say the law ended here- how does this reconcile with what Jesus taught Mat 7:23 Rev 22:14 and even Paul 1 Cor 7:19. I think there is some misunderstandings with what Paul is teaching here.
It doesn't say law of commandments either
It says the commandments contained in ordinances Eph 2:15- see Neh 9:13
Which were the animal sacrifices for sin because Jesus took that penalty
Heb 9: 10 concerned only with foods and drinks, various washings, and fleshly ordinances imposed until the time of reformation.
11 But Christ came as High Priest of the good things [c]to come, with the greater and more perfect tabernacle not made with hands, that is, not of this creation. 12 Not with the blood of goats and calves, but with His own blood He entered the Most Holy Place once for all, having obtained eternal redemption. 13 For if the blood of bulls and goats and the ashes of a heifer, sprinkling the unclean, [d]sanctifies for the [e]purifying of the flesh, 14 how much more shall the blood of Christ, who through the eternal Spirit offered Himself without [f]spot to God, cleanse your conscience from dead works to serve the living God? 15 And for this reason He is the Mediator of the new covenant, by means of death, for the redemption of the transgressions under the first covenant, that those who are called may receive the promise of the eternal inheritance.
Why sin is still the same in the New Covenant breaking God's law, breaking one we break them all.
1 John 3:4 Whoever commits sin also commits lawlessness, and sin is lawlessness.
James 2:11 For He who said, “Do not commit adultery,” also said, “Do not murder.” Now if you do not commit adultery, but you do murder, you have become a transgressor of the law.
Again, you seem to have a misunderstanding of the Ten Commandments, which God said consisted of Ten Commandments and no more was added Deut 4:13 this is a standalone unit what defines what sin is 1 John 3:4 James 2:10-12 Rom 7:7 Mat 5:19-30 and what all man will be judged by Ecc 12:13-14 James 2:11-12 Mat 5:19-30 Rev 22:14-15, regardless if we accept this or not, why we see it revealed at the last trumpet before the Second Coming of Jesus Christ Rev 11:18-19. God didn't leave it up to man to write His holy and perfect commandments, He did, He numbered them by design to be 10, not 9 or 1 and told us not to edit them Deut 4:2 Psa 89:34 Mat 5:18 because how could man possibly re-write something God Himself wrote- sadly most do not see the gravity of this- God's perfect law and Testimony Exo 31:18 and going away from it we are warned Isa 8:20
The law of Moses which some call the Mosaic law, which included everything that is not in Exo 20:1-17 as this is God's Law. The law of Moses was handwritten by Moses placed beside the ark (outside) written on paper, because paper fades and set outside as a witness against and contained all the curses and blessing for breaking God's law the Ten Commandments Deut 31:24-26,
The law of Moses includes the Ten Commandments, because all of God's people keep God's commandments from the beginning of time Rev 14:12 Exo 20:11, in the Ten Commandments is where God placed His seal. If we do not have God's seal by default, we will be marked by another. No one will ever be able to convince me, that someone in Christ is ok to worship other gods, or vain His holy name, or steal or murder and why Jesus said in plain words- I did not come to destroy the law but fulfill, meaning like when one fulfills their wedding vows, does that mean they can commit adultery? Not to someone who is faithful, why Jesus said heaven and earth would pass before one jot or tittle fails, heaven and earth are still here and all is not fulfilled until Jesus comes again, why breaking the least of these commandments and teaching other to break, which so many people do despite His clear warning, will be least in heaven and if we read the next verse means one won't be there, Jesus went on to quote two of the commandments to know what He was referring to right from the Ten Commandments saying not to literally commit murder or adultery as some teach He is, but not have the thoughts that lead to breaking these two commandments which is sin and one would be in fear of Judgement. Mat 5:17-30 Rev 11:18-19
How do we have faith in and of Jesus but not His teachings? or following His example.
Guess all will get sorted out, not sure I will continue responding as its getting too long and not sure if people are trying to harmonize the Scriptures or beleive the promise of God Psa 89:34
One of the last verses of the Bible right before the Second Coming of Jesus Christ says this
Rev 22:14 Blessed are those who do His commandments, that they may have the right to the tree of life, and may enter through the gates into the city.
Sin separated us from God Isa 59:2 following that same path of disobedience is not how one is reconciled. Rom 6:16
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ARBITER01
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I wanted to come back to this.
I've been with The Lord Jesus since 3:36 AM January 3 1992 when I gave my life to Him on the back of a Naval ship. My introduction to Jesus was very much like Paul's, filled with major experiences, and has been ever since that morning.
If I was doing things wrongly since then, He would have already told me about it years ago. You see, i don't have a relationship with my bible, I have a day to day relationship with the risen Lord. We talk all the time.
He's no made mention to me about needing to follow the law of Moses instead of the leading of The Holy Spirit, and until He does, your personal suggestions on here will continue to be disregarded.
He comes first in my life, not you or anyone else.
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CoreyD
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Please do, because that statement is false.
You believe because of that statement.
You are SDA, and in my experience SDAs have ways of reasoning unique to them.
Though the scriptures do not say something SDAs reasoning allow them to see what's not there.
The captives, that were made slaves, including the Gibeonites kept the festivals, and Sabbaths. Do you know why, they had to, according to the scriptures?
Interesting twist.
You have no scripture to support your claim, but I am to have a scripture to prove your assertion false...
I do.
The Bible refutes your claim.
Only, I usually let SDAs provide the scriptural answers.
That way, they cannot deny what they see, and say.
So, after you.
Thank you.
According to Romans 11:24 "if you were cut from what is by nature a wild olive tree, and grafted, contrary to nature, into a cultivated olive tree, how much more will these, the natural branches, be grafted back into their own olive tree."
I see a new nation in Acts 15:14
Just as God chose Israel, and put his name on them, he chose a new nation to do the same.
Sorry to use the expression, though.
I wasn't thinking there would be objections to it, since I assumed persons understood the concept was there, even though not explicitly stated.
Similar to how persons use the word Trinity, even though you don't find the word in the Bible.
You don't ask them why add, do you?
My memory isn't 100%, but it's not that bad.
yes correct, and nothing happened to the covenant, the non israelites were grafted in!
Does that mean you are changing your answer?
Thanks for bringing me back to this., though. There was a follow up question.
Please read Exodus 12:43-49; Numbers 9:14; (Numbers 15:16
My question is this:
Were these foreigners now a holy nation of priests simply on the basis that they had to obey God's laws while dwelling with Israel, and if that is the case, why are these words in the Bible - Ephesians 2:11-18... Does circumcision of the flesh make the foreigner one with Israel, or the blood of Christ, and exercising faith in it?
You have stated your belief, that the old covenant was the ten commandments.
I have two questions:
If the ten commandments is the old covenant, why do you keep it, when the Bible says what it does at Jeremiah 31:31, 32?
What did the Bible say the Israelites agreed to, at Exodus 19:5-9; Exodus 24:1-12; Hebrews 9:18-20... the ten commandments or all the words that God commanded them?
Another question...
What words did Moses write down... the ten commandments alone, or all the words God commanded in Exodus 34:1-28?
Which covenant... the one God said the nation of Israel broke Leviticus 26:14, 15, or the one God was referring to in that Psalm - his covenant with David.
Did you read the verses before? Please do.
Be careful not to mix the covenants up, because there were more than one.
The law written on hearts is not the same law written on stone.
Read Jeremiah 31:31-34 again, and consider the scriptures given to you earlier... including what you quoted a few lines up.
Romans 3:20; Romans 8:3, 4; and Hebrews 7:18, 19 refer to the same law.
Where do you see old priesthood in those verses?
Since the law was only temporary, and it would be replaced, when the faith arrived, the shadow of things would also be replaced by the reality.
Of course, Paul let's his fellow brothers understand the scope of this.
It's not just the law. It involves the entire purpose of God. See Ephesians 1:6-10
Christ is the end of the law does not mean Christ is the end of the law?
How does Matthew 7:23... not sure why you referred to that... Revelation 22:14... not sure why you referred to that either... and 1 Corinthians 7:19 change that fact?
This is according to SDAs reasoning.
They separate the law into ceremonial and other, to arrive at part being dispose, and the other part remaining.
However, this not scriptural. It is "special pleading"...
When you show me from the Bible, that this unique way of reasoning, is actually scriptural, we can talk about it.
As it stands currently, though, the Bible does not separate the law.
In fact, the Israelites agreed to, to the entire law - Exodus 19:5-9; Exodus 24:1-12; Hebrews 9:18-20. Not just part.
The law of commandments is the same Paul refers to at Romans 7:1-12, where he refers to one of the ten - You must not covet.
That statement... "not sure I will continue responding as its getting too long and not sure if people are trying to harmonize the Scriptures or beleive the promise of God"
You are the second person... rather, third, since @JesusFollowerForever made the second, who complain about things getting long after making it long.
You wouldn't happen to be wanting to have the say on what is, without it being shown otherwise, or opening an escape hatch, and inching towards it, would you, because that's the message I get from persons on a debate forum, having their say... sometimes quite long... until they are asked pointed questions that require pointed scriptural answers.
The scriptures do have that effect on the vast majority, but there is no need to be in that situation.
If the Jews had listened to Stephen, instead of trying to close their ears, they would have benefited themselves.
The Bible says, they could not withstand the wisdom and the Spirit with which he was speaking, and so they cried out with a loud voice and stopped their ears and rushed together at him
I've had a lot of experience with SDA, and I have learned that questioning them on scripture, and letting them provide the scriptural answer, makes them uncomfortable, because they are eventually going to see that the scriptures do not support their belief, but rather, the opposite.
I met one who was humble enough to let the scripture lead them, and with that, they changed their religion.
The scriptures are too powerful to go against. That why they couldn't withstand the wisdom and the Spirit with which Stephen was speaking.
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Usually when one focuses on someone's denomination instead of the Scriptures at hand, its because they don't have a Biblical argument.
For example, we can go through this...
The same one Lev 26:14 ‘But if you do not obey Me, and do not observe all these commandments,
God's commandments that He defined, He wrote, He spoke said were "My" Exo 20:6 are for God's people Rev14:12 Rev 22:14. Why Jesus said "Whoever" breaks the least of these commandments and teaches others to break will be least in heaven Mat 5:19-30 Why would anyone want to worship other gods, vain His holy name, not keep His holy Sabbath day, covet, murder our neighbor, I find it exceedingly hard to believe that said Christians argue so much against obeying God's law that the God of the Universe personally wrote as if there is anyone greater than He.
Yes, I did. . .
Psa 89:30 “If his sons forsake My law
And do not walk in My judgments,
31 If they [f]break My statutes
And do not keep My commandments,
32 Then I will punish their transgression with the rod,
And their iniquity with stripes.
33 Nevertheless My lovingkindness I will not [g]utterly take from him,
Nor [h]allow My faithfulness to fail.
34 My covenant I will not break,
Nor alter the word that has gone out of My lips.
If we can't believe the Testimony of God what the entire Bible is about, the testimony of Jesus Christ through the prophets and apostles, but sadly when it comes to God's own Testimony written in stone Exo 31:18 Psa 89:34 Mat 5:18 than written in our hearts 1 Cor 3:3 Heb 8:10 who He said changes not, few believe. 2 Tim 4:3 Isa 8:20
Guess all will get sorted out soon enough. Be well.
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CoreyD
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According to the Bible...
To say otherwise... for example, to claim Ruth as party to the new covenant, is to annul these scriptures.
- The first Jews in the new covenant - Matthew 26:28; Luke 22:19, 20; Romans 8:29, 30; Romans 8:23; Romans 8:28-30;Ephesians 1:6-14 Those who accepted the Messiah after his arrival.
- The first Gentiles grafted into the Israel of God, and the new covenant - Acts 10:1-48 Cornelius and those of his household.
To say otherwise... for example, to claim Ruth as party to the new covenant, is to annul these scriptures.
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Still doesn't say, that Gentiles with faith in the OT such as Ruth could not be grafted in. Same merciful God in the OT as it is in the NT.
Why in the covenant God said He wrote it for everyone
Exo 20:8 “Remember the Sabbath day, to keep it holy. 9 Six days you shall labor and do all your work, 10 but the seventh day is the Sabbath of the Lord your God. In it you shall do no work: you, nor your son, nor your daughter, nor your male servant, nor your female servant, nor your cattle, nor your stranger who is within your gates. 11 For in six days the Lord made the heavens and the earth, the sea, and all that is in them, and rested the seventh day. Therefore the Lord blessed the Sabbath day and hallowed it.
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CoreyD
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As an SDA, it is expected that you would say something like this.
It is not a matter of focusing on your religion, rather than scripture, as that expression suggests that I am not using scripture, which everyone reading this thread can see. is to the contrary.
If you said focusing on your religion while using scripture, that might be more acceptable, because it is following Jesus' example, when he repeatedly said "the Scribes and Pharisees" - focusing on the religion, rather than John Jacobs, or Paul James, while using scripture to show that it was the religion that caused the individuals actions.
Even Paul said that his zeal as a Pharisee - the religion, was responsible for his former behavior.
So, it's important... for the benefit of humble readers, that they understand the connection between the religion, and the response against the scriptures.
If anyone wants to deny Peter's words, and the rest of the apostles, they are free to do so.
For those who would be humble, James said this:
Simeon [Peter] hath declared how God at the first did visit the Gentiles, to take out of them a people for his name. And to this agree the words of the prophets; as it is written, After this I will return, and will build again the tabernacle of David, which is fallen down; and I will build again the ruins thereof, and I will set it up: That the residue of men might seek after the Lord, and all the Gentiles, upon whom my name is called, saith the Lord, who doeth all these things.
Acts 15:14-17This bit of information was enough to put the circumcision issue to rest, and it is enough to put this issue to rest.
Yes, Peter had the vision from God that showed him that now the way was open for the Gentiles to come in.. at the first
God first visited the Gentiles to take from them a people for himself, in the year 36 CE, when humble Cornelius and those of his household became the first to be grafted in.
It is one thing to annul the scriptures by ones traditions, or doctrines, but calling the one given the keys to the kingdom a liar... well that just closes the door to the kingdom on us, doesn't it.
This, again, is for those humble ones reading this thread.
There are some among all religions, including SDAs, who will allow the scriptures to lead them, as I have seen in my experience.
I was so happy for that individual.
Yes, we can know who is humble. Their actions and responses to scripture reveals that.
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CoreyD
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That is true.
Only, for those who do not know the truth, their "sorting out" would be their final breath. 2 Thessalonians 2:11, 12
Any "sorting out" needs to be done before Jesus comes with all his angels. Matthew 25:31
Take care.
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There is nothing that says God left Gentiles with faith in the cold in the OC, In God's covenant in His own words gave provision for them
SDA did not write these words, God did with His own finger, the Holy Spirit of Truth.
Exo 20:8 “Remember the Sabbath day, to keep it holy. 9 Six days you shall labor and do all your work, 10 but the seventh day is the Sabbath of the Lord your God. In it you shall do no work: you, nor your son, nor your daughter, nor your male servant, nor your female servant, nor your cattle, nor your stranger who is within your gates. 11 For in six days the Lord made the heavens and the earth, the sea, and all that is in them, and rested the seventh day. Therefore the Lord blessed the Sabbath day and hallowed it.
Jesus condemned "the Scribes and Pharisees" for keeping their own laws and traditions instead of obeying the commandments of God quoting from this same unit of Ten.
Mat 15:1 Then the scribes and Pharisees who were from Jerusalem came to Jesus, saying, 2 “Why do Your disciples transgress the tradition of the elders? For they do not wash their hands when they eat bread.”
3 He answered and said to them, “Why do you also transgress the commandment of God because of your tradition? 4 For God commanded, saying, ‘Honor your father and your mother’; quoting Exo 20:12 in the Ten Commandments and, ‘He who curses father or mother, let him be put to death.’ 5 But you say, ‘Whoever says to his father or mother, “Whatever profit you might have received from me is a gift to God”— 6 then he need not honor his father [a]or mother.’ Thus you have made the [b]commandment of God of no effect by your tradition. 7 Hypocrites! Well did Isaiah prophesy about you, saying:
8 ‘These people [c]draw near to Me with their mouth,
And honor Me with their lips,
But their heart is far from Me.
9 And in vain they worship Me,
Teaching as doctrines the commandments of men.’ ”
Rev 14:12 Here is the patience of the saints; here are those who keep the commandments of God and the faith of Jesus.
So if we are wanting to be like Jesus we would keep the commandments and the Sabbath abiding in Him Luke 4:16 John 15:10 following in His example 1 John 2:6 and follow what He taught and beleive when He said 19 Whoever therefore breaks one of the least of these commandments, and teaches men so, shall be called least in the kingdom of heaven; but whoever does and teaches them, he shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven. because God keeps His promises Mat 5:18 Psa 89:34 and His Testimony Exo 31:18 Heb 8:10 Rev 11:19 Isa 8:20
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CoreyD
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Hi JFF.
I just wanted to share this tip with you, which I find useful.
When I want to know what comment a poster is responding to, what I do, is, when responding to their post, I right click on the Reply button, and select 'Open in a new tab'.
That way, I just have to switch tabs to see what comment is being replied to.
I hope that's useful.
Take care.
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KevinT
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When Paul was establishing his churches, he would lay hands on the members, and they would be filled with the Holy Spirit. And yet, when writing back to the church at Corinth, he had to call out a situation where a man was sleeping with his stepmother (1 cor 5). Why did he, Paul, have to provide external input to these people? Why hadn’t they already been instructed in this by the Spirit, which had come on them with Paul’s laying of hands?
Likewise, Jesus said
(Matt 18:15) `If your brother does something wrong to you, go to him. Talk alone to him and tell him what he has done. If he listens to you, you have kept your brother as a friend.
16 But if he does not listen to you, take one or two others with you to talk to him. Then two or three people will hear every word and can prove what was said.
17 If he does not listen to them, tell the church. If he does not listen to the church, treat him as one who does not believe in God and as bad as a tax collector.
So @ARBITER01, I disagree with what I hear you saying, namely, that there is no role for external guidance among God’s people. Yes, there is the old testament prophecy that the spirit will tell us “this is the way, walk in it“, but that doesn’t preclude the Biblical role we have of helping and correcting our fellow believers.
Proverbs 27:17 As iron sharpens iron,
so one person sharpens another
Best wishes,
Kevin
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