Do the Ten Commandments still apply under the new covenant today?

[Clare73]

The words of the Covenant is the Ten Commandments Exo 34:28 not what it was established on Exo 19:8, why the New Covenant is not established on new laws according to Scripture, it still has God’s laws, because God keeps His promises Psa 89:34 Deut 4:2 Mat 5:18 why the New Covenant is established on better promises Heb 8:6 on how to keep God’s law that He now wrote in our hearts and minds Heb 8:10 enabling us to keep based on what He will do, through our love and cooperation and His power John 14:15-18

I"m sure you'll understand if my focus is on Jesus' new command of the New Covenant: love one another as I have loved you (Jn 13:34),
rather than on the obsolete (vanishing) Old Covenant (Heb 8:13) Decalogue: do no harm.

 

[SabbathBlessings]

I"m sure you'll understand if my focus is on Jesus' new command of the New Covenant: love one another as I have loved you (Jn 13:34),
rather than on the obsolete Old Covenant (Heb 8:13) Decalogue: do no harm.

It doesn't say that's the what the new covenant was established on Heb 8:6, nor is the New Covenant based on one single command Heb 8:10 or that a new command deletes all the other commandments, Jesus taught much more than this and breaking the Ten Commandments is still sin in the NC 1 John 3:4 James 2:11-12 Mat 5:19-30 Rom 7:7 so hard for it to be obsolete if Jesus taught not to break or teach other to break the least of these commandments affecting our status in heaven Mat 5:19-20 nor is do nor harm obsolete either Rom 13:9-10

Guess we will have to agree to disagree, all will get sorted out soon enough.

 

[Clare73]

It doesn't say that's the what the new covenant was established on Heb 8:6, nor is the New Covenant based on one single command Heb 8:10 or that a new command deletes all the other commandments Jesus taught much more than this and breaking the Ten Commandments is still sin in the NC 1 John 3:4 James 2:11-12 Mat 5:19-30 Rom 7:7 so hard for it to be obsolete if Jesus taught not to break or teach other to break the least of these commandments affecting our status in heaven Mat 5:19-20

Guess we will have to agree to disagree, all will get sorted out soon enough.

Again. . .I"m sure you'll understand if my focus is on Jesus' new command of the New Covenant: love one another as I have loved you (Jn 13:34), rather than on the obsolete (vanishing) Old Covenant (Heb 8:13) Decalogue: do no harm.

 

[JulieB67]

What doctrine is not biblical, I would be happy to defend any of our doctrine through Scripture,

I'm not looking to go down that road of Sunday worship is the mark of the beast and so on. I've seen it all before which eventually pits the SDA's vs the Catholics and so on. Let's just say I don't find it biblical and that's just one.
One can be guided to believe anything. I'd rather be guided by God's Word, not man's. I've been down that road before and was led astray. That was until 25 years ago.

to not derail this one

You're right. I don't want to continue to do that.

 

[SabbathBlessings]

I'm not looking to go down that road of Sunday worship is the mark of the beast and so on. I've seen it all before which eventually pits the SDA's vs the Catholics and so on. Let's just say I don't find it biblical and that's just one.
One can be guided to believe anything. I'd rather be guided by God's Word, not man's. I've been down that road before and was led astray. That was until 25 years ago.

You're right. I don't want to continue to do that.

I would be happy to discuss the mark of the beast from what the Bible says. Basically you don't have anything other than the mark of the beast, but you don't want to go down that road, so basically a baseless accusation.

The SDA's do not take mans word over God, it even says so in our Statement of Beliefs

They also make clear that the Bible is the standard by which all teaching and experience must be tested. (Num. 12:6; 2 Chron. 20:20; Amos 3:7; Joel 2:28, 29; Acts 2:14-21; 2 Tim. 3:16, 17; Heb. 1:1-3; Rev. 12:17; 19:10; 22:8, 9.)What Adventists Believe About the Prophetic Gift

Sadly, you just condemned 23 million people of believing something that's not true. While we believe in the SOP which is Biblical, we believe the standard and what all things must be tested by is the Word of God. Why you will see SDA's mainly only quoting the Scriptures to defend our doctrine.

 

[CoreyD]

No not only the gentiles, Christ came first to his chosen people, the israelites, I thought it was clear, but this is what I meant, When God makes a promise He keeps it God does not change.

Let's spend a little time breaking this down, because without realizing it, you are touching on the 'nitty gritty'.
I'm asking you, why you insist on including the Gentiles in the ones taught by Jesus on how to keep the law covenant.

God keeps his promises, and the promise to the Israelites was this:
Exodus 19:5, 6
5 Now therefore, if ye will obey my voice indeed, and keep my covenant, then ye shall be a peculiar treasure unto me above all people: for all the earth is mine:
6 And ye shall be unto me a kingdom of priests, and an holy nation. These are the words which thou shalt speak unto the children of Israel.


The covenant is the Mosaic Law covenant. "Ye", or "You" refers to the Israelites. Not the Gentiles.
This is what the Bible really says.
Do you agree?
If not, please stay focused on this, and let's address this scripturally, with the view that it is very important to understand what the Bible really says.

I want to know at the end of this discussion, why you insist that Jesus came to teach the Jews, as well as Gentiles how to keep the covenant, when the Bible really does not say that.

Paul is interpreted by everyone differently, but to me Paul is saying the curse of the law is disobedience, not the law itself. it was unprofitable because they followed it without love and compassion.

That's an interesting way to start a response, after saying that it is important to understand what the Bible really says.
Are you saying it boils down to interpretation, because that would render your statement "it is important to understand what the Bible really says", void, and make this discussion pointless, wouldn't it.
So, what are you saying?

Does Paul explain himself clearly, or do we need to interpret his words.
In other words, does Paul interpret his own words, and do we accept what Paul himself says, or do we go with what we interpret Paul to mean?
I would say the former. What do you say?

Here is what the Bible really says - Paul's interpretation of what he said.
Please read Galatians 3:6-14 (reading from verse one would be even better), since I don't want to make this post longer than it needs to be.

• The goal here is being justified as righteous.
• That is impossible by works of law, because no imperfect (sinful) person could perfectly obey the law (the only person could do that was the perfect man, Jesus Christ), since when they broke one, they broke all - Deuteronomy 27:26.
• Hence the law was weak, useless, and unprofitable - Hebrews 7:18, 19, and it put all who would obey it, under a curse, since none could fulfill it...except one, but...
• the law served a purpose, until the perfect one could come and fulfill the law - Galatians 3:19, that is, obey it perfectly, and since he is the one to that by means of his shed blood, give everyone exercising faith in that sacrifice, justification by faith - Galatians 3:8, he removed the curse, by becoming a curse (that's why Jesus had to die by crucifixion - Galatians 3:13).
• Therefore... and many ignore these words, although they are written in the same ink as the rest of the Bible... All who rely on works of the law are under a curse - Galatians 3:10. Imagine there are people that want to be under the curse that Jesus removed - a provision that God made available to all. SMH
• That brings us to the 'nitty gritty' - Abraham. Galatians 3 opens with the words, 'O foolish Galatians!' Let's change that to O foolish ones!, since it applies equally to all who follow their course.
  • those who have faith are sons of Abraham - Galatians 3:7
  • The Scripture foresaw that God would justify the Gentiles by faith, and foretold the gospel to Abraham: “All nations will be blessed through you.” - Galatians 3:8
  • So those who have faith are blessed along with Abraham, the man of faith. - Galatians 3:9
  • All who rely on works of the law are under a curse. For it is written: “Cursed is everyone who does not continue to do everything written in the Book of the Law.” - Galatians 3:10
  • Now it is clear that no one is justified before God by the law, because, “The righteous will live by faith.” - Galatians 3:11
  • The law, however, is not based on faith; on the contrary, “The man who does these things will live by them.” - Galatians 3:12
  • Christ redeemed us from the curse of the law by becoming a curse for us - Galatians 3:13
  • He redeemed us in order that the blessing promised to Abraham would come to the Gentiles in Christ Jesus, so that by faith we might receive the promise of the Spirit - Galatians 3:13
• The scriptures have spoken. I know people on here read them. So, there is no need for me to open their eyes, or beat the words into their head. However, Paul referred to holy ones as senseless, so if they did not grasp this, how much less those living today, who are so far removed from Christianity in the first century.

The point is clear.
The covenant made with Abraham is what includes the Gentiles. That covenant still stand, and the promises will come to all in that covenant, because it is not a bilateral covenant, where two parties had an agreement to keep, in order for those terms to be met.
The terms are met, only if ye will obey my voice indeed, and keep my covenant.

The Abrahamic covenant was not like that. God made the promise. There was no mediator, and there was no agreement on the part of the second party (A mediator is unnecessary, however, for only one party - Galatians 3:20). Hence, the terms of that covenant will be met, regardless.
Please read Galatians 3:15-18, and note what it says...

• The law that came 430 years later does not revoke the covenant previously established by God, so as to nullify the promise. Galatians 3:17
• For if the inheritance depends on the law, then it no longer depends on a promise; but God freely granted it to Abraham through a promise. Galatians 3:18
• Why then the Law? It was added on account of transgressions, until the seed to whom promise has been made should have come Galatians 3:19

Did you notice it there?
The Abrahamic covenant involved the seed, and those that would be blessed... of all nations.
The law's purpose is mentioned in the scriptures. The purpose was fulfilled.
Please forgive me... I decided it was necessary to quote particular verses, because while people read these text, they somehow don't connect them to what is said.
Now before faith came, we were held in custody under the Law, having been locked up until the faith being about to be revealed, - Galatians 3:23
so that the Law has become our trainer unto Christ, so that we might be justified by faith. Galatians 3:24
And faith having come, we are no longer under a trainer [paidagógos: Guardian, Tutor, Instructor]. Galatians 3:25

That word trainer, or tutor... HELPS Word-studies, says...

paidagōgós (from 3816 /país, "a child under development by strict instruction") – properly, a legally appointed overseer, authorized to train (bring) up a child by administering discipline, chastisement, and instruction, i.e. doing what was necessary to promote development.

Thayer's Greek Lexicon says...

παιδαγωγός, παιδαγωγου, ὁ (from παῖς, and ἀγωγός a leader, escort), from Herodotus 8, 75 down; a tutor (Latinpaedagogus) i. e. a guide and guardian of boys. Among the Greeks and Romans the name was applied to trustworthy slaves who were charged with the duty of supervising the life and morals of boys belonging to the better class. The boys were not allowed so much as to step out of the house without them before arriving at the age of manhood; cf.

Interesting that both these recognize how this word conveys the thought of training and disciplining children until the reach manhood.
That is so fitting, because I was thinking of a tricycle.
They use training wheels, and some are detachable, so that once the child has reached the stage where they no longer need them, they can be removed.

This is what the scriptures really say.
The law is no longer needed, since it served the purpose, until the faith arrived. The faith has arrive.
However, if persons want to remain under the tutor, like children on training wheels, I give way to their wishes.
I wanted to make clear what the Bible really says on these matters, and it did a good job... better than any I could do.

The length was necessary for clarity, since I won't need to repeat.

in Heb 7:19 (for the law made nothing perfect), and a better hope is introduced, by which we draw near to God. the better hope is undoubtedly understanding the law through the Holy Spirit that was available after Christ ascension to heaven, is it why we are drawn to GOD and understand better according to the measure of the Spirit given us.

You have many ideas JFF, but I am looking for what the Bible really says.
That's the important thing, isn't it?
What verse says "the better hope is undoubtedly understanding the law through the Holy Spirit"?
Where exactly can I find that?

The reference given in rom 8:3-4 confirms this;
om 8:3 For what the law was powerless to do in that it was weakened by the flesh, God did by sending His own Son in the likeness of sinful man, as an offering for sin. He thus condemned sin in the flesh,

I read there that "what the law was powerless to do in that it was weakened by the flesh, God did by sending His own Son in the likeness of sinful man, as an offering for sin. He thus condemned sin in the flesh".
Does that verse say "the better hope is undoubtedly understanding the law through the Holy Spirit"?
No JFF. That's your interpretation isn't it... although, I can't figure how you see any relation between those two comments.

Here is what the Bible really says...

• So the former commandment is set aside because it was weak and useless Hebrews 7:18
• (for the law made nothing perfect), and a better hope is introduced, by which we draw near to God. Hebrews 7:19

Following that reading, we see "set aside because it was weak and useless" because the law made nothing perfect, and something better introduced. One by which we draw near to God.
Do you accept that?
Then how could you say the better hope is understanding the set aside law through the Holy Spirit?
It was replaced, for something better, wasn't it?

Please read Hebrews 9:1-11:40
I know it's a lot, but I think it would be to do injustice to quote specifics here, and extend this post.
However, when you do read it, take note of the Hebrews 11:40, and see how that links to Hebrews 7:22

Rom 8:4 so that the righteous standard of the law might be fulfilled in us, who do not walk according to the flesh but according to the Spirit.

This does not negate the law it confirms it!

What do you mean by that statement - "confirms the law"?
Do you mean confirms that the Mosaic law is a requirement for us to keep?

If so, please look at the text again, from verse 1.

1. There is therefore now no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus.
2. For the law of the Spirit of life has set you free in Christ Jesus from the law of sin and death.
3. For God has done what the law, weakened by the flesh, could not do. By sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh and for sin, he condemned sin in the flesh,
4. in order that the righteous requirement of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not according to the flesh but according to the Spirit.

Did you get what the Bible says there?

1. There is therefore now no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus. Why? Remember, they were condemned because they could not keep the law without stumbling - thus being under the curse of the law. James 2:10; Deuteronomy 27:26; Galatians 3:10
2. However, the law of the Spirit of life has set you free. From the curse. How? Romans 3:28 - For we maintain that a man is justified by faith apart from works of the law. Not by works of law.
3. Thus, God has done what the law, weakened by the flesh, could not do. By sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh and for sin, he condemned sin in the flesh. How? Romans 3:30 - God is the One who will justify the circumcision by faith and the uncircumcision through the same faith. Faith, in Jesus Christ allows for God justifying people as righteous. Not by works of law.
4. So that the righteous requirement of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not according to the flesh but according to the Spirit. How? Romans 3:31 - Do we then overthrow the law by this faith? By no means! On the contrary, we uphold the law.

Imagine if you, at age four, could ride a bike without the training wheels. That would be great, wouldn't it.
That's basically what Paul is here saying. The righteous requirements of the law are being fulfilled in those who belong to Christ, not because of works of law - the training wheels, but the law of faith Romans 3:27, which is governed by the law of love, which is the law of Christ (fulfill the law of Christ - Galatians 6:2) Romans 13:10.
This is what the Christian upholds or fulfills.

Is the law of Christ the ten commandments?
No. The law (Mosaic Law) was not capable of bringing anyone to that point.

 

[CoreyD]

yes correct, and nothing happened to the covenant, the non israelites were grafted in!

Jhn 15:1 “I am the true vine, and My Father is the keeper of the vineyard.
Jhn 15:2 He cuts off every branch in Me that bears no fruit, and every branch that does bear fruit, He prunes to make it even more fruitful.
Jhn 15:3 You are already clean because of the word I have spoken to you.
Jhn 15:4 Remain in Me, and I will remain in you. Just as no branch can bear fruit by itself unless it remains in the vine, neither can you bear fruit unless you remain in Me.
Jhn 15:5 I am the vine and you are the branches. The one who remains in Me, and I in him, will bear much fruit. For apart from Me you can do nothing.
Jhn 15:6 If anyone does not remain in Me, he is like a branch that is thrown away and withers. Such branches are gathered up, thrown into the fire, and burned.
Jhn 15:7 If you remain in Me and My words remain in you, ask whatever you wish, and it will be done for you.
Jhn 15:8 This is to My Father’s glory, that you bear much fruit, proving yourselves to be My disciples.
Jhn 15:9 As the Father has loved Me, so have I loved you. Remain in My love.

Are you saying there is no old covenant and new covenant?
Are you saying the old covenant is joined with the new covenant?
Are you saying the new nation - the Israel of God, is in the old covenant?
What exactly are you saying? Please clarify.

 

[JesusFollowerForever]

Let's spend a little time breaking this down, because without realizing it, you are touching on the 'nitty gritty'.
I'm asking you, why you insist on including the Gentiles in the ones taught by Jesus on how to keep the law covenant.

God keeps his promises, and the promise to the Israelites was this:
Exodus 19:5, 6
5 Now therefore, if ye will obey my voice indeed, and keep my covenant, then ye shall be a peculiar treasure unto me above all people: for all the earth is mine:
6 And ye shall be unto me a kingdom of priests, and an holy nation. These are the words which thou shalt speak unto the children of Israel.


The covenant is the Mosaic Law covenant. "Ye", or "You" refers to the Israelites. Not the Gentiles.
This is what the Bible really says.
Do you agree?
If not, please stay focused on this, and let's address this scripturally, with the view that it is very important to understand what the Bible really says.

I want to know at the end of this discussion, why you insist that Jesus came to teach the Jews, as well as Gentiles how to keep the covenant, when the Bible really does not say that.


That's an interesting way to start a response, after saying that it is important to understand what the Bible really says.
Are you saying it boils down to interpretation, because that would render your statement "it is important to understand what the Bible really says", void, and make this discussion pointless, wouldn't it.
So, what are you saying?

Does Paul explain himself clearly, or do we need to interpret his words.
In other words, does Paul interpret his own words, and do we accept what Paul himself says, or do we go with what we interpret Paul to mean?
I would say the former. What do you say?

Here is what the Bible really says - Paul's interpretation of what he said.
Please read Galatians 3:6-14 (reading from verse one would be even better), since I don't want to make this post longer than it needs to be.

• The goal here is being justified as righteous.
• That is impossible by works of law, because no imperfect (sinful) person could perfectly obey the law (the only person could do that was the perfect man, Jesus Christ), since when they broke one, they broke all - Deuteronomy 27:26.
• Hence the law was weak, useless, and unprofitable - Hebrews 7:18, 19, and it put all who would obey it, under a curse, since none could fulfill it...except one, but...
• the law served a purpose, until the perfect one could come and fulfill the law - Galatians 3:19, that is, obey it perfectly, and since he is the one to that by means of his shed blood, give everyone exercising faith in that sacrifice, justification by faith - Galatians 3:8, he removed the curse, by becoming a curse (that's why Jesus had to die by crucifixion - Galatians 3:13).
• Therefore... and many ignore these words, although they are written in the same ink as the rest of the Bible... All who rely on works of the law are under a curse - Galatians 3:10. Imagine there are people that want to be under the curse that Jesus removed - a provision that God made available to all. SMH
• That brings us to the 'nitty gritty' - Abraham. Galatians 3 opens with the words, 'O foolish Galatians!' Let's change that to O foolish ones!, since it applies equally to all who follow their course.
  • those who have faith are sons of Abraham - Galatians 3:7
  • The Scripture foresaw that God would justify the Gentiles by faith, and foretold the gospel to Abraham: “All nations will be blessed through you.” - Galatians 3:8
  • So those who have faith are blessed along with Abraham, the man of faith. - Galatians 3:9
  • All who rely on works of the law are under a curse. For it is written: “Cursed is everyone who does not continue to do everything written in the Book of the Law.” - Galatians 3:10
  • Now it is clear that no one is justified before God by the law, because, “The righteous will live by faith.” - Galatians 3:11
  • The law, however, is not based on faith; on the contrary, “The man who does these things will live by them.” - Galatians 3:12
  • Christ redeemed us from the curse of the law by becoming a curse for us - Galatians 3:13
  • He redeemed us in order that the blessing promised to Abraham would come to the Gentiles in Christ Jesus, so that by faith we might receive the promise of the Spirit - Galatians 3:13
• The scriptures have spoken. I know people on here read them. So, there is no need for me to open their eyes, or beat the words into their head. However, Paul referred to holy ones as senseless, so if they did not grasp this, how much less those living today, who are so far removed from Christianity in the first century.

The point is clear.
The covenant made with Abraham is what includes the Gentiles. That covenant still stand, and the promises will come to all in that covenant, because it is not a bilateral covenant, where two parties had an agreement to keep, in order for those terms to be met.
The terms are met, only if ye will obey my voice indeed, and keep my covenant.

The Abrahamic covenant was not like that. God made the promise. There was no mediator, and there was no agreement on the part of the second party (A mediator is unnecessary, however, for only one party - Galatians 3:20). Hence, the terms of that covenant will be met, regardless.
Please read Galatians 3:15-18, and note what it says...

• The law that came 430 years later does not revoke the covenant previously established by God, so as to nullify the promise. Galatians 3:17
• For if the inheritance depends on the law, then it no longer depends on a promise; but God freely granted it to Abraham through a promise. Galatians 3:18
• Why then the Law? It was added on account of transgressions, until the seed to whom promise has been made should have come Galatians 3:19

Did you notice it there?
The Abrahamic covenant involved the seed, and those that would be blessed... of all nations.
The law's purpose is mentioned in the scriptures. The purpose was fulfilled.
Please forgive me... I decided it was necessary to quote particular verses, because while people read these text, they somehow don't connect them to what is said.
Now before faith came, we were held in custody under the Law, having been locked up until the faith being about to be revealed, - Galatians 3:23
so that the Law has become our trainer unto Christ, so that we might be justified by faith. Galatians 3:24
And faith having come, we are no longer under a trainer [paidagógos: Guardian, Tutor, Instructor]. Galatians 3:25

That word trainer, or tutor... HELPS Word-studies, says...


Thayer's Greek Lexicon says...


Interesting that both these recognize how this word conveys the thought of training and disciplining children until the reach manhood.
That is so fitting, because I was thinking of a tricycle.
They use training wheels, and some are detachable, so that once the child has reached the stage where they no longer need them, they can be removed.

This is what the scriptures really say.
The law is no longer needed, since it served the purpose, until the faith arrived. The faith has arrive.
However, if persons want to remain under the tutor, like children on training wheels, I give way to their wishes.
I wanted to make clear what the Bible really says on these matters, and it did a good job... better than any I could do.

The length was necessary for clarity, since I won't need to repeat.


You have many ideas JFF, but I am looking for what the Bible really says.
That's the important thing, isn't it?
What verse says "the better hope is undoubtedly understanding the law through the Holy Spirit"?
Where exactly can I find that?


I read there that "what the law was powerless to do in that it was weakened by the flesh, God did by sending His own Son in the likeness of sinful man, as an offering for sin. He thus condemned sin in the flesh".
Does that verse say "the better hope is undoubtedly understanding the law through the Holy Spirit"?
No JFF. That's your interpretation isn't it... although, I can't figure how you see any relation between those two comments.

Here is what the Bible really says...

• So the former commandment is set aside because it was weak and useless Hebrews 7:18
• (for the law made nothing perfect), and a better hope is introduced, by which we draw near to God. Hebrews 7:19

Following that reading, we see "set aside because it was weak and useless" because the law made nothing perfect, and something better introduced. One by which we draw near to God.
Do you accept that?
Then how could you say the better hope is understanding the set aside law through the Holy Spirit?
It was replaced, for something better, wasn't it?

Please read Hebrews 9:1-11:40
I know it's a lot, but I think it would be to do injustice to quote specifics here, and extend this post.
However, when you do read it, take note of the Hebrews 11:40, and see how that links to Hebrews 7:22


What do you mean by that statement - "confirms the law"?
Do you mean confirms that the Mosaic law is a requirement for us to keep?

If so, please look at the text again, from verse 1.

1. There is therefore now no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus.
2. For the law of the Spirit of life has set you free in Christ Jesus from the law of sin and death.
3. For God has done what the law, weakened by the flesh, could not do. By sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh and for sin, he condemned sin in the flesh,
4. in order that the righteous requirement of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not according to the flesh but according to the Spirit.

Did you get what the Bible says there?

1. There is therefore now no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus. Why? Remember, they were condemned because they could not keep the law without stumbling - thus being under the curse of the law. James 2:10; Deuteronomy 27:26; Galatians 3:10
2. However, the law of the Spirit of life has set you free. From the curse. How? Romans 3:28 - For we maintain that a man is justified by faith apart from works of the law. Not by works of law.
3. Thus, God has done what the law, weakened by the flesh, could not do. By sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh and for sin, he condemned sin in the flesh. How? Romans 3:30 - God is the One who will justify the circumcision by faith and the uncircumcision through the same faith. Faith, in Jesus Christ allows for God justifying people as righteous. Not by works of law.
4. So that the righteous requirement of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not according to the flesh but according to the Spirit. How? Romans 3:31 - Do we then overthrow the law by this faith? By no means! On the contrary, we uphold the law.

Imagine if you, at age four, could ride a bike without the training wheels. That would be great, wouldn't it.
That's basically what Paul is here saying. The righteous requirements of the law are being fulfilled in those who belong to Christ, not because of works of law - the training wheels, but the law of faith Romans 3:27, which is governed by the law of love, which is the law of Christ (fulfill the law of Christ - Galatians 6:2) Romans 13:10.
This is what the Christian upholds or fulfills.

Is the law of Christ the ten commandments?
No. The law (Mosaic Law) was not capable of bringing anyone to that point.

your post was much too long, impossible To reply to this, please condense and choose 2 or 3 questions at most then I will answer, as it it I would need 50-100 post length to answer what is there.

I have read it in full, we can discuss but cannot discuss the whole bible you have to choose

 

[SabbathBlessings]

Let's spend a little time breaking this down, because without realizing it, you are touching on the 'nitty gritty'.
I'm asking you, why you insist on including the Gentiles in the ones taught by Jesus on how to keep the law covenant.

God keeps his promises, and the promise to the Israelites was this:
Exodus 19:5, 6
5 Now therefore, if ye will obey my voice indeed, and keep my covenant, then ye shall be a peculiar treasure unto me above all people: for all the earth is mine:
6 And ye shall be unto me a kingdom of priests, and an holy nation. These are the words which thou shalt speak unto the children of Israel.


The covenant is the Mosaic Law covenant. "Ye", or "You" refers to the Israelites. Not the Gentiles.
This is what the Bible really says.
Do you agree?
If not, please stay focused on this, and let's address this scripturally, with the view that it is very important to understand what the Bible really says.

Israel is just a name God gave to His people, it was never just for literal Israel, its always been those who were grafted in by faith. Think of the story of Ruth, she was grafted in when she accepted Naomi's God, which is the God of the universe Ruth 1:16 Just like the New Covenant is still made with Israel, still has God's las Heb 8:10 and we are grafted in not by nationality, but through faith Gal 3:26-29 and we can still be part of the Promise given to Israel such as:

1 Peter 2:9 But ye are a chosen generation, a royal priesthood, an holy nation, a peculiar people; that ye should shew forth the praises of him who hath called you out of darkness into his marvellous light:

 

[SabbathBlessings]

Please read Galatians 3:6-14 (reading from verse one would be even better), since I don't want to make this post longer than it needs to be.

• The goal here is being justified as righteous.
• That is impossible by works of law, because no imperfect (sinful) person could perfectly obey the law (the only person could do that was the perfect man, Jesus Christ), since when they broke one, they broke all - Deuteronomy 27:26.
• Hence the law was weak, useless, and unprofitable - Hebrews 7:18, 19, and it put all who would obey it, under a curse, since none could fulfill it...except one, but...
• the law served a purpose, until the perfect one could come and fulfill the law - Galatians 3:19, that is, obey it perfectly, and since he is the one to that by means of his shed blood, give everyone exercising faith in that sacrifice, justification by faith - Galatians 3:8, he removed the curse, by becoming a curse (that's why Jesus had to die by crucifixion - Galatians 3:13).
• Therefore... and many ignore these words, although they are written in the same ink as the rest of the Bible... All who rely on works of the law are under a curse - Galatians 3:10. Imagine there are people that want to be under the curse that Jesus removed - a provision that God made available to all. SMH
• That brings us to the 'nitty gritty' - Abraham. Galatians 3 opens with the words, 'O foolish Galatians!' Let's change that to O foolish ones!, since it applies equally to all who follow their course.
  • those who have faith are sons of Abraham - Galatians 3:7
  • The Scripture foresaw that God would justify the Gentiles by faith, and foretold the gospel to Abraham: “All nations will be blessed through you.” - Galatians 3:8
  • So those who have faith are blessed along with Abraham, the man of faith. - Galatians 3:9
  • All who rely on works of the law are under a curse. For it is written: “Cursed is everyone who does not continue to do everything written in the Book of the Law.” - Galatians 3:10
  • Now it is clear that no one is justified before God by the law, because, “The righteous will live by faith.” - Galatians 3:11
  • The law, however, is not based on faith; on the contrary, “The man who does these things will live by them.” - Galatians 3:12
  • Christ redeemed us from the curse of the law by becoming a curse for us - Galatians 3:13
  • He redeemed us in order that the blessing promised to Abraham would come to the Gentiles in Christ Jesus, so that by faith we might receive the promise of the Spirit - Galatians 3:13

Lets look a little deeper in which law Paul is referring to in Galatians. The main law He keeps bringing up is circumcision because the Jews were requiring new Gentile converts to get circumcised in order to be saved Acts 15:1 and before they could hear the gospel Gal 2:3. This is the works of the law he was referring to because the Jews thoughts they could save themselves by getting circumcised and they no longer needed Jesus. Paul was not teaching people it is okay to dishonor God by breaking God's law Rom 2:21-23 and okay to sin Rom 7:7 and be an enmity to God by walking in the flesh Rom 8:7-8 (sin- breaking God's law 1 John 3:4 James 2:11-12) Paul said circumcision no circumcision, either is okay, but keeping the commandments of God is what matters 1 Cor 7:19

I also think we need to bring in more context of what it means to be under the law or under the curse of the law. The wages of sin is death Rom 6:23 (curse) Sin is breaking God's law 1 John 3:4 James 2:11-12 Mat 5:19-30 . There is no curse if keeping God's law, just blessings Isa 56:2 Rev 22:14 we have the same choices as the Isralites Deut 30:15-19 Rev 22:14-15


Rom 3:19 Now we know that whatever the law says, it says to those who are under the law, that every mouth may be stopped, and all the world may become guilty before God.

It doesn't mean, if I don't keep God's law I am not under the curse, its the opposite. All you have to do is read the last chapter of Revelation, one of the last verses in the Bible before the Revelation of Jesus Christ to know this is not so Rev 22:14-15 same as what Jesus said at His Second Coming Mat 7:21-23

20 Therefore by the deeds of the law no flesh will be justified in His sight, for by the law is the knowledge of sin.

God's law can't save us, it just shows us our sins, like a mirror, so we can see when we are dirty and sin and go to Jesus who has the solution who can change our heart, which means change our direction when we go to Him sorry we broke His law and ask for His forgiveness and He is so faithful to cleanse us of all sin and unrighteousness and when He heals He says go and sin no more, because no one is saved in our sins Heb 10:26-30, He came to save us from sin Mat 1:21 we need a complete transformation in Christ.

Here is another example where being under the law doesn't mean we don't have to keep

Gal 5:16 I say then: Walk in the Spirit, and you shall not fulfill the lust of the flesh. 17 For the flesh lusts against the Spirit, and the Spirit against the flesh; and these are contrary to one another, so that you do not do the things that you wish. 18 But if you are led by the Spirit, you are not under the law. (under the condemnation - that those who practice such things will not inherit the kingdom of God.)

19 Now the works of the flesh are evident, which are: adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lewdness, 20 idolatry, sorcery, hatred, contentions, jealousies, outbursts of wrath, selfish ambitions, dissensions, heresies, 21 envy, murders, drunkenness, revelries, and the like; of which I tell you beforehand, just as I also told you in time past, that those who practice such things will not inherit the kingdom of God.

God's law and Testimony Exo 31:18 is not against God's Spirit. It was the Holy Spirit of Truth that wrote God's law on Stone and than wrote His law on a better surface our hearts and minds

No wonder why Jesus taught not to break or teach others to break the least of these commandments Mat 5:19-30 quoting from Exo 20:1-17.

If we are submitting to the Spirit, Gods commandments would be kept and we would be abiding in Him

1 John 3:24 Now he who keeps His commandments abides in Him, and He in him. And by this we know that He abides in us, by the Spirit whom He has given us.

 

[SabbathBlessings]

your post was much too long, impossible To reply to this, please condense and choose 2 or 3 questions at most then I will answer, as it it I would need 50-100 post length to answer what is there.

I have read it in full, we can discuss but cannot discuss the whole bible you have to choose

Hope you don't mind if responded to a couple quick things.

 

[JesusFollowerForever]

Are you saying there is no old covenant and new covenant?

at this time for gentiles there is only the new covenant, that is the ten commandments as defined from GOD himself in 2 different verses in the first few books of the bible. Jeremiah stated that the New covenant would be put in our hearts and minds, it never mentions new laws!

Are you saying the old covenant is joined with the new covenant?

The answer is Jeremiah 31:31-34 (KJV)
Jer 31:31 Behold, the days are coming, declares the LORD, when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah.
Jer 31:32 It will not be like the covenant I made with their fathers when I took them by the hand to lead them out of the land of Egypt— a covenant they broke, though I was a husband to them,” declares the LORD.
Jer 31:33 “But this is the covenant I will make with the house of Israel after those days, declares the LORD. I will put My law in their minds and inscribe it on their hearts. And I will be their God, and they will be My people.
Jer 31:34 No longer will each man teach his neighbor or his brother, saying, ‘Know the LORD,’ because they will all know Me, from the least of them to the greatest, declares the LORD. For I will forgive their iniquities and will remember their sins no more.”

do you think you are under the new covenant if you refuse the laws within the covenant?

Are you saying the new nation - the Israel of God, is in the old covenant?

Never crossed my mind, don't know what you mean by this.

What exactly are you saying? Please clarify.

the New covenant as I wrote to you before is for Israel and gentiles, Jesus sent the 11 to preach to all nations, all he did ans was teaching to all in full view! including this teaching;

Matthew 19:16 Now behold, one came and said to Him, “Good[a] Teacher, what good thing shall I do that I may have eternal life?”


17 So He said to him, [b]“Why do you call Me good? [c]No one is good but One, that is, God. But if you want to enter into life, keep the commandments.”

18 He said to Him, “Which ones?”

Jesus said, “‘You shall not murder,’ ‘You shall not commit adultery,’ ‘You shall not steal,’ ‘You shall not bear false witness,’ 19 ‘Honor your father and your mother,’ and, ‘You shall love your neighbor as yourself.’ ”


Jesus said clearly; But if you want to enter into life, keep the commandments.” and then next sentence enumerated the commandments did he not? yes or no? this is clear and requires no interpretation or explanation from anyone!

Are 10 commandments too hard to remember, are the teachings of Jesus on how to apply the commandments from Love and compassion and not by the letters and rigidity of these imposed by the pharisees too difficult also?

do you know the father in Heaven on the day of Jesus baptism said from heaven ;

Mat 3:16 As soon as Jesus was baptized, He went up out of the water. Suddenly the heavens were opened, and He saw the Spirit of God descending like a dove and resting on Him.
Mat 3:17 And a voice from heaven said, “This is My beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased!”

And during Jesus transfiguration;

Luk 9:34 While Peter was speaking, a cloud appeared and enveloped them, and they were afraid as they entered the cloud.
Luk 9:35 And a voice came from the cloud, saying, “This is My Son, whom I have chosen. Listen to Him!”

Yes, Jesus is the son of God, to whom all authority in earth and heaven was given told us how to enter life

But if you want to enter into life, keep the commandments.

Mat 28:18 Then Jesus came to them and said, “All authority in heaven and on earth has been given to Me.

Mat 28:19 Therefore go and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Spirit,

Mat 28:20 and teaching them to obey all that I have commanded you. And surely I am with you always, even to the end of the age.”

 

[JesusFollowerForever]

Hope you don't mind if responded to a couple quick things.

No on the contrary you understand Paul better then I, thank you for taking the time to do this.

 

[JesusFollowerForever]

signing off , good night everyone.

 

[CoreyD]

your post was much too long, impossible To reply to this, please condense and choose 2 or 3 questions at most then I will answer, as it it I would need 50-100 post length to answer what is there.

I checked, and my longest response to one of your comments is 58 lines 6954 characters. That's just 500 characters longer than your response, which was 27 lines 6454 characters.
Considering that the lines in my response are longer, because I list points, using bullet points, or numbers, I'd say reading 500 characters more, is really a tiny bit, especially considering that I posted a couple references.

In fact, those references, are 5 lines... 816 characters.
That means excluding 5 tiny lines of references, my response is actually shorter than your response... By 316 characters.

Someone did this to me a few months back.
They claimed my post was too long for them to respond to, after they made some enormously long posts, and then they lied about the reason they ignored the post.

It seems to be a trend here, but we know this isn't something new.
Jesus met the same pattern, back in his day.
Matthew 21:23-27

23 zAnd when he entered the temple, the chief priests and the elders of the people came up to him aas he was teaching, and said, b“By what authority are you doing these things, and who gave you this authority?” 24 Jesus answered them, “I also will ask you one question, and if you tell me the answer, then I also will tell you by what authority I do these things. 25 The baptism of John, cfrom where did it come? dFrom heaven or from man?” And they discussed it among themselves, saying, “If we say, ‘From heaven,’ he will say to us, e‘Why then did you not believe him?’ 26 But if we say, ‘From man,’ fwe are afraid of the crowd, for they all hold that John was ga prophet.” 27 So they answered Jesus, “We do not know.” And he said to them, “Neither will I tell you by what authority I do these things.​

Luke 20;26
So familiar was Jesus, with that pattern, when the chief priest and scribes said to Jesus, “If you are the Christ, tell us.” He said to them, “If I tell you, you will not believe, and if I ask you, you will not answer."

For me personally, I would rather make one post, than break each response into separate posts, and have like 10 comments to the same person, post after post.
I get lost when people do that, and sometimes I miss a post, and have to go back, because other users are also posting in the thread, which not only makes it confusing, but hard to follow... for me.

If you prefer to respond in bits, that's fine.
If you start from the top, and work your way down, that's okay... so long as you don't do like some do, and detach parts that are connected, and important.
Some do that when they want to ignore points they don't want to address, as well.
It's up to you.

I hope that was not too long.

I have read it in full, we can discuss but cannot discuss the whole bible you have to choose

Thank you for reading.
Sorry you "are not able to" respond.

 

[pasifika]

Many today question whether the Ten Commandments still apply under the new covenant. Some believe they were temporary, pointing to writings that describe the law as a ministry that brought death and condemnation. But when we look deeper into the words of Jesus and the prophets, we find a different truth—one filled with life, purpose, and enduring glory.

The prophet Jeremiah gave a clear promise from God:
“I will make a new covenant… I will put My law in their minds, and write it on their hearts; and I will be their God, and they shall be My people.” (Jeremiah 31:31–33)

This promise was not about removing the law but placing it where it was always meant to be—inside the heart. The commandments, once written on stone, would now be written in living hearts through the Spirit of God. But like any true covenant, it only works when both sides agree. God remains faithful, but His people must accept it, cherish it, and allow His Spirit to plant it deep within them.

Jesus never set the commandments aside. He honored the law and taught its fullness. When He healed on the Sabbath or defended His disciples for picking grain, He wasn’t breaking the law—He was showing its true purpose. He said, “It is lawful to do good on the Sabbath.” (Matthew 12:12) The Sabbath was made for man—not man for the Sabbath. Jesus reminded the people that the heart of the law is love, mercy, and goodness, not cold rituals.

He also taught that not even the smallest part of the law would pass away until all is fulfilled:
“Do not think that I came to destroy the Law or the Prophets. I did not come to destroy but to fulfill… till heaven and earth pass away, one jot or one tittle will by no means pass from the law.” (Matthew 5:17–18) Jesus taught from the law and lived by it. He deepened its meaning. He showed that anger leads to murder, and lust is already adultery in the heart. His teachings didn’t cancel the law—they raised it to its true spiritual level.

So why does it seem today that God's law is not written in the hearts of many? The answer lies in the covenant relationship. If one party refuses the covenant, it cannot be fulfilled. The Spirit cannot write in a heart that is closed. Many call Jesus Lord but do not walk in His ways. As He said, “Why do you call Me ‘Lord, Lord,’ and not do the things which I say?” (Luke 6:46)

The commandments remain—not as a list of rules, but as a path to life. The law of God is perfect, converting the soul. The problem was never with the law, but with the hearts of people. The old covenant failed because the people broke it, not because the law was faulty.

The new covenant is not the removal of God’s law but its renewal—inside us. The Spirit does not lead us away from the commandments but gives us the power to live them. Jesus said the Spirit will guide us into all truth. The law and the Spirit are not enemies—they work together when the heart is willing. In the end, the new covenant fulfills the old by making it alive. The law that once condemned now becomes a light. But for this to happen, the covenant must be embraced, and the heart must be softened. God's law in the heart is a sign of His people. It is how we love Him and love our neighbor.

The commandments are not heavy when written in love. They are eternal because they reflect the character of God Himself. They are still standing, still holy, and still waiting for hearts that will receive them—not in stone, but in spirit and truth.

A complement to this post can be found below;

The Mustard Seed and the Growth of God's Kingdom

Jesus gave many parables to help us understand the ways of God, and among the most powerful is the parable of the mustard seed. Though short in words, it carries a deep truth about the kingdom of heaven, the work of the Spirit, and the new covenant God promised through the prophets. Jesus said...

www.christianforums.com

In regards to our salvation the 10 commandments (old covenant law) is No use.

The new covenant is Not the same as the old covenant.

 

[CoreyD]

Israel is just a name God gave to His people, it was never just for literal Israel, its always been those who were grafted in by faith. Think of the story of Ruth, she was grafted in when she accepted Naomi's God, which is the God of the universe Ruth 1:16 Just like the New Covenant is still made with Israel, still has God's las Heb 8:10 and we are grafted in not by nationality, but through faith Gal 3:26-29 and we can still be part of the Promise given to Israel such as:

Was Ruth grafted into the Covenant?
Not according to the scriptures.

The covenant was specifically made with Israel. That's in the first part of my post. I thank you for responding to at least part of it.
According to Exodus 19:5, 6, this was a special privilege conferred on the nation of Israel - Jacobs offspring,
The promise was made to Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob.

What does the Bible tell us about this grafting. Please read Romans 11:17-24.
I'll avoid quoting, to avoid issues with its length.

In order for any grafting to take place, what had to happen? Please read Romans 10:1-21.
Israel had to be unfaithful, and break the covenant. Please read Matthew 23:1-39; Matthew 21:42-44
Was this planned?
No, but God foresaw it. How do we know?
It's written throughout the scriptures about this new nation, which would be made up of those Jews, who accepted the Messiah, and Gentiles who did likewise. Please read Romans 1:16; Romans 3:1-3

Please read Romans 9:1-13, and I have two questions for you.
Who were the first Jews chosen, to be part of the new nation - the holy nation - the new covenant - the Israel of God?
Who were the first Gentiles, to be grafted into this nation?
Please answer using scripture, because the scriptures provide a clear answer.

Thanks. ..and thanks again for at least attempting to address my post.

1 Peter 2:9 But ye are a chosen generation, a royal priesthood, an holy nation, a peculiar people; that ye should shew forth the praises of him who hath called you out of darkness into his marvellous light:

Thank you for quoting this scripture.
You saved me one text , and it might be one of the scriptures to help with your answers to the questions.

 

[CoreyD]

Lets look a little deeper in which law Paul is referring to in Galatians. The main law He keeps bringing up is circumcision because the Jews were requiring new Gentile converts to get circumcised in order to be saved Acts 15:1 and before they could hear the gospel Gal 2:3. This is the works of the law he was referring to because the Jews thoughts they could save themselves by getting circumcised and they no longer needed Jesus. Paul was not teaching people it is okay to dishonor God by breaking God's law Rom 2:21-23 and okay to sin Rom 7:7 and be an enmity to God by walking in the flesh Rom 8:7-8 (sin- breaking God's law 1 John 3:4 James 2:11-12) Paul said circumcision no circumcision, either is okay, but keeping the commandments of God is what matters 1 Cor 7:19

Are you saying, you conclude that "works of the law" is circumcision?
Are you saying that keeping the Sabbath is not a work of the law?
If this is what you are saying, can you please give one good reason why one should accept that?

I also think we need to bring in more context of what it means to be under the law or under the curse of the law. The wages of sin is death Rom 6:23 (curse) Sin is breaking God's law 1 John 3:4 James 2:11-12 Mat 5:19-30 . There is no curse if keeping God's law, just blessings Isa 56:2 Rev 22:14 we have the same choices as the Isralites Deut 30:15-19 Rev 22:14-15

If you read my post, you will see that the scriptures do not support that idea, but instead clearly says what 'under the curse of the law' refers to, going all the way back to Deuteronomy, where it was first stated.

Rom 3:19 Now we know that whatever the law says, it says to those who are under the law, that every mouth may be stopped, and all the world may become guilty before God.

It doesn't mean, if I don't keep God's law I am not under the curse, its the opposite. All you have to do is read the last chapter of Revelation, one of the last verses in the Bible before the Revelation of Jesus Christ to know this is not so Rev 22:14-15 same as what Jesus said at His Second Coming Mat 7:21-23

20 Therefore by the deeds of the law no flesh will be justified in His sight, for by the law is the knowledge of sin.

God's law can't save us, it just shows us our sins, like a mirror, so we can see when we are dirty and sin and go to Jesus who has the solution who can change our heart, which means change our direction when we go to Him sorry we broke His law and ask for His forgiveness and He is so faithful to cleanse us of all sin and unrighteousness and when He heals He says go and sin no more, because no one is saved in our sins Heb 10:26-30, He came to save us from sin Mat 1:21 we need a complete transformation in Christ.

Thank you.
So, can any man fulfill the Mosaic Law?
Can any man fulfill the Law of Christ?

Here is another example where being under the law doesn't mean we don't have to keep

Gal 5:16 I say then: Walk in the Spirit, and you shall not fulfill the lust of the flesh. 17 For the flesh lusts against the Spirit, and the Spirit against the flesh; and these are contrary to one another, so that you do not do the things that you wish. 18 But if you are led by the Spirit, you are not under the law. (under the condemnation - that those who practice such things will not inherit the kingdom of God.)

19 Now the works of the flesh are evident, which are: adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lewdness, 20 idolatry, sorcery, hatred, contentions, jealousies, outbursts of wrath, selfish ambitions, dissensions, heresies, 21 envy, murders, drunkenness, revelries, and the like; of which I tell you beforehand, just as I also told you in time past, that those who practice such things will not inherit the kingdom of God.

God's law and Testimony Exo 31:18 is not against God's Spirit. It was the Holy Spirit of Truth that wrote God's law on Stone and than wrote His law on a better surface our hearts and minds

No wonder why Jesus taught not to break or teach others to break the least of these commandments Mat 5:19-30 quoting from Exo 20:1-17.

If we are submitting to the Spirit, Gods commandments would be kept and we would be abiding in Him

1 John 3:24 Now he who keeps His commandments abides in Him, and He in him. And by this we know that He abides in us, by the Spirit whom He has given us.

You are referring to Jews.
They were under the Mosaic Law. Even Jesus himself, and so, we expect Jesus to teach this to the lost children of Israel, to whom he came.
So, are you not using the old, in argument for the new?

What was Jesus teaching, when he said, "You heard that it was said..., but I say to you..."? Please read Matthew 5:21-48, before answering. Thanks.

 

[JesusFollowerForever]

I checked, and my longest response to one of your comments is 58 lines 6954 characters. That's just 500 characters longer than your response, which was 27 lines 6454 characters.
Considering that the lines in my response are longer, because I list points, using bullet points, or numbers, I'd say reading 500 characters more, is really a tiny bit, especially considering that I posted a couple references.

In fact, those references, are 5 lines... 816 characters.
That means excluding 5 tiny lines of references, my response is actually shorter than your response... By 316 characters.

Someone did this to me a few months back.
They claimed my post was too long for them to respond to, after they made some enormously long posts, and then they lied about the reason they ignored the post.

It seems to be a trend here, but we know this isn't something new.
Jesus met the same pattern, back in his day.
Matthew 21:23-27

23 zAnd when he entered the temple, the chief priests and the elders of the people came up to him aas he was teaching, and said, b“By what authority are you doing these things, and who gave you this authority?” 24 Jesus answered them, “I also will ask you one question, and if you tell me the answer, then I also will tell you by what authority I do these things. 25 The baptism of John, cfrom where did it come? dFrom heaven or from man?” And they discussed it among themselves, saying, “If we say, ‘From heaven,’ he will say to us, e‘Why then did you not believe him?’ 26 But if we say, ‘From man,’ fwe are afraid of the crowd, for they all hold that John was ga prophet.” 27 So they answered Jesus, “We do not know.” And he said to them, “Neither will I tell you by what authority I do these things.​

Luke 20;26
So familiar was Jesus, with that pattern, when the chief priest and scribes said to Jesus, “If you are the Christ, tell us.” He said to them, “If I tell you, you will not believe, and if I ask you, you will not answer."

For me personally, I would rather make one post, than break each response into separate posts, and have like 10 comments to the same person, post after post.
I get lost when people do that, and sometimes I miss a post, and have to go back, because other users are also posting in the thread, which not only makes it confusing, but hard to follow... for me.

If you prefer to respond in bits, that's fine.
If you start from the top, and work your way down, that's okay... so long as you don't do like some do, and detach parts that are connected, and important.
Some do that when they want to ignore points they don't want to address, as well.
It's up to you.

I hope that was not too long.

Thank you for reading.
Sorry you "are not able to" respond.

you are not easy to talk to, always a reprimand, know that when you reply to a reply from someone, the original text is lost and not visible it is why it is difficult to do a second reply if the text was long, you constantly have to switch back and forth between posts...

so you realize this full post of yours only use is nothing less but to accuse me of not wanting to answer. is is you in fact that will not reply because you cannot! and you dont like that!

Lets get to the point! define the new covenant give me the scripture describing the content of the new covenant. I am trying to help to not prove you wrong!

 

[JesusFollowerForever]

In regards to our salvation the 10 commandments (old covenant law) is No use.

The new covenant is Not the same as the old covenant.

Pasifica, I ask you then the same questions I ask others what defines the New covenant what is in it please show me the scripture that defines what it is, it is easy to say they are different, we know from scripture the old covenant was defined by God, as the ten commandments that were placed in the Ark of the covenant, what is the New covenant? it is not a trick question I assure you.