The revised Old Covenant

SabbathBlessings · Monday at 6:13 AM

Xeno.of.athens said:
Aren't you advocating for the ten commandments being written in Christian's hearts? That would be a revised old covenant, right? Revised by transferring "the Law" from stone tablets to tablets of flesh, right? Same words, same contract/covenant just different tablets.

The Scriptures doesn't say anything about God's law changing, other than the location- written in the heart and mind.

But it does say, the New Covenant is established on better promises on what God does Heb 8:6

Why its still a sin to break God's law in the NC 1 John 3:4 James 2:10-12 Rom 7:7

So the focus should be on what are these better promises that establish the New Covenant.

trophy33 · Monday at 6:23 AM

SabbathBlessings said:
The Scriptures doesn't say anything about God's law changing, other than the location- written in the heart and mind.

It seems to me you pretend to agree with various Christians that the source of what is good or wrong is the renewed heart, mind and love to everybody.

But in practice, you always refer to the Old Testament letter - ink on a paper - arguing with us about what is good. You obviously do not believe Christian hearts and minds are valid sources, when they do not agree with your OT reading.

SabbathBlessings · Monday at 6:26 AM

trophy33 said:
It seems to me you pretend to agree with Christians that the source of what is good or wrong is the renewed heart, mind and love to everybody.

You don't know me, so please do not pretend you know what I think or do.

trophy33 said:
But in practice, you always refer to the Old Testament letter - ink on a paper - arguing with Christians about what is good. You obviously do not believe Christian hearts and minds are valid sources, when they do not agree with your OT reading.

Have you read the New Testament? Where does it say anywhere we can break God's law and sin?

Not something taught all laws from the Old Testament telling us not to break

Rom 7:7 What shall we say then? Is the law sin? Certainly not! On the contrary, I would not have known sin except through the law. For I would not have known covetousness unless the law had said, “You shall not covet.”

1 John 4 Whoever commits sin also commits lawlessness, and sin is lawlessness.

James 2:10 For whoever shall keep the whole law, and yet stumble in one point, he is guilty of all. 11 For He who said, “Do not commit adultery,” also said, “Do not murder.” Now if you do not commit adultery, but you do murder, you have become a transgressor of the law

Mat 15:3 He answered and said to them, “Why do you also transgress the commandment of God because of your tradition? 4 For God commanded, saying, ‘Honor your father and your mother’

Why Jesus taught not to break or teach others to break the least of these commandments

Mat 5: 19 Whoever therefore breaks one of the least of these commandments, and teaches men so, shall be called least in the kingdom of heaven; but whoever does and teaches them, he shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.

trophy33 · Monday at 6:28 AM

SabbathBlessings said:
You don't know me, so please do not pretend you know what I think or do.

I know what you think, because I have been reading a lot of what you are writing, for years. Writing is putting your thoughts forward for other people to see. People can be known from what they say. Don't you believe you know God? And still, you believe know Him from reading the Bible.

SabbathBlessings said:
Have you read the New Testament? Where does it say anywhere we can break God's law and sin?

Manytimes. Why should it say something like that?

Xeno.of.athens · Monday at 6:35 AM

SabbathBlessings said:
The Scriptures doesn't say anything about God's law changing, other than the location- written in the heart and mind.

But it does say, the New Covenant is established on better promises on what God does Heb 8:6

Why its still a sin to break God's law in the NC 1 John 3:4 James 2:10-12 Rom 7:7

So the focus should be on what are these better promises that establish the New Covenant.

I think you read "law" as "the ten commandments"

SabbathBlessings · Monday at 6:42 AM

Xeno.of.athens said:
I think you read "law" as "the ten commandments"

It certainly includes them as God's law according to what Jesus taught. Mat 15:3-14 Mat 5:19-30 Mat 19:17-19 Mark 7:7-13 etc. etc.

JEBofChristTheLord · Monday at 9:43 AM

Xeno.of.athens said:
I think you read "law" as "the ten commandments"

Indeed, she does. She treats all of the rest of the Old Covenant Law as invisible and is untruthful about doing so.

SabbathBlessings · Monday at 9:45 AM

JEBofChristTheLord said:
Indeed, she does. She treats all of the rest of the Old Covenant Law as invisible and is untruthful about doing so.

Can you prove this please? Accusations are easy to make, but its another to prove it. I would first like you to prove that the "law" doesn't include the Ten Commandments.

JEBofChristTheLord · Monday at 10:04 AM

SabbathBlessings said:
Can you prove this please? Accusations are easy to make, but its another to prove it.

Read your own posts. Read the Law of the Old Testament.

SabbathBlessings said:
I would first like you to prove that the "law" doesn't include the Ten Commandments.

You have made another vague request, as you have done before, susceptible to the confusions of terms that you have been repeating over and over again, and containing a suggestion that I do not consider the Ten Commandments to be within the Law of the Old Covenant. Therefore, no, I am not concerned with what you like.

SabbathBlessings · Monday at 10:07 AM

JEBofChristTheLord said:
Read your own posts. Read the Law of the Old Testament.

I have many times. I am asking you to prove your accusation. You claimed I was being untruthful about the OT law and it being invisible, so I am asking you to prove this. Making accusations you can't substantiate, its the same as false testimony. We are all accountable for what we say Ecc 12:13-14 Matthew 12:36

JEBofChristTheLord said:
You have made another vague request, as you have done before, susceptible to the confusions of terms that you have been repeating over and over again, containing a suggestion that I do not consider the Ten Commandments to be within the Law of the Old Covenant. Therefore, no, I am not concerned with what you like.

I am asking you to prove the Ten Commandments is not God's law in the New Covenant. Not part of the law God wrote in the hearts of His NC covenant believers. I am not seeing anything vague about this.

JEBofChristTheLord · Monday at 12:18 PM

SabbathBlessings said:
I have many times. I am asking you to prove your accusation. You claimed I was being untruthful about the OT law and it being invisible, so I am asking you to prove this. Making accusations you can't substantiate, its the same as false testimony. We are all accountable for what we say Ecc 12:13-14 Matthew 12:36

When asked about nearly all of the Law of the Old Covenant, you have pretended that the questions and the answers do not exist.

SabbathBlessings said:
I am asking you to prove the Ten Commandments is not God's law in the New Covenant. Not part of the law God wrote in the hearts of His NC covenant believers. I am not seeing anything vague about this.

Yes, you are not seeing.

SabbathBlessings · Monday at 1:56 PM

JEBofChristTheLord said:
When asked about nearly all of the Law of the Old Covenant, you have pretended that the questions and the answers do not exist.

Yet you have once again produced no proof, just repeated the accusation.

JEBofChristTheLord said:
Yes, you are not seeing.

Yet, not one Scripture to support your statement. I think we need to seriously start believing the Testimony of Jesus Christ and the apostles on this matter Mat 15:3-14 Mark 7:7-13 Mat 5:19-30 Mat 19:17-19 John 14:15 John 15:10 1 John 2:6 Rom 7:7 Rom 2:21-23 James 2:10-12 etc. etc. etc. etc.

JEBofChristTheLord · Monday at 3:29 PM

When asked about nearly all of the Law of the Old Covenant, you have pretended that the questions and the answers do not exist.

SabbathBlessings said:
Yet you have once again produced no proof, just repeated the accusation.

Let's produce some proof. I'm asking about the vast majority of the Law of the Old Covenant. For instance, I'm asking how many murderers and adulterers you have helped stone to death, as I have asked before. And I think that, as before, you will pretend that this question and its answers do not exist. But let's see, it will be nice fresh proof. How about it?

SabbathBlessings · Monday at 3:37 PM

JEBofChristTheLord said:
Let's produce some proof. I'm asking about the vast majority of the Law of the Old Covenant. For instance, I'm asking how many murderers and adulterers you have helped stone to death, as I have asked before. And I think that, as before, you will pretend that this question and its answers do not exist. But let's see, it will be nice fresh proof. How about it?

So, that's not how accusations work. You made a serious accusation about me and I asked for proof, so instead of producing one shred of evidence, you want to ask me questions so you think you can "produce proof". Its like locking someone up for a crime and looking for evidence after. Not a honest way to deal with things.

There is a very easy answer to your new question, one I have answered many times, but you have not answered my questions through Scripture like I asked, so it doesn't appear you are interested in a real discussion about Scripture, but just want to throw around accusations you can't back up. This is not a discussion I am interested in pursuing further. So take care and be well.

JEBofChristTheLord · Monday at 4:05 PM

Oh, it's a question you don't wish to answer! Light dawns. Have a great day!

BobRyan · Monday at 6:31 PM

JEBofChristTheLord said:
Let's produce some proof. I'm asking about the vast majority of the Law of the Old Covenant. For instance, I'm asking how many murderers and adulterers you have helped stone to death, as I have asked before. And I think that, as before, you will pretend that this question and its answers do not exist. But let's see, it will be nice fresh proof. How about it?

The answer has been given by almost all Christian denominations --

Notice that both the Baptist Confession of Faith section 19
AND the Westminster Confession of Faith section 19 --
they explain why it is that civil penalties under the OT Theocracy don't apply outside of it

BOTH answer your question about the laws of a theocracy ending when that theocracy ends.

It is not as though "do not murder" has been deleted from "God's commandments" - as we all know
IT is not as though "honor your father and mother" has been deleted from "God's Commandments"

But the civil penalties under that theocracy (which are what your post chooses to focus on) can't apply under a theocracy. Hence even in Christian Churches children that disobey parents are not stoned to death.

So far - stating the obvious.
But as Paul says in Eph 6:1-3 "honor your father and mother" applies as moral law to Christians EVEN THOUGH they are not under a theocracy that would have a civil penalty for that sin.

How interesting that many Christian denominations admit to this fact.

SabbathBlessings · Monday at 6:55 PM

BobRyan said:
The answer has been given by almost all Christian denominations --

Notice that both the Baptist Confession of Faith section 19
AND the Westminster Confession of Faith section 19 --
they explain why it is that civil penalties under the OT Theocracy don't apply outside of it

BOTH answer your question about the laws of a theocracy ending when that theocracy ends.

It is not as though "do not murder" has been deleted from "God's commandments" - as we all know
IT is not as though "honor your father and mother" has been deleted from "God's Commandments"

But the civil penalties under that theocracy (which are what your post chooses to focus on) can't apply under a theocracy. Hence even in Christian Churches children that disobey parents are not stoned to death.

So far - stating the obvious.
But as Paul says in Eph 6:1-3 "honor your father and mother" applies as moral law to Christians EVEN THOUGH they are not under a theocracy that would have a civil penalty for that sin.

How interesting that many Christian denominations admit to this fact.

That's right and in the NC committing murder is still a sin, just like worshipping other gods or breaking the least of these commandments Mat 5:19-30 1 John 3:4 James 2:10-12 but judgment is with Jesus Christ that He will give at His soon return, either eternal life or death. If we abide in Him, we would not want to break any of His commandments, but follow Him as He showed us the righteous way one should live. John 15:10 1 John 2:6

JEBofChristTheLord · Monday at 10:50 PM

Here is more of the Law of God of the Old Testament that Jesus did not do, that He has not and will not cause to be written upon our hearts. He did not obey this Law, did not consider it true, when a woman unclean according to it, touched His garment.

25 And if a woman have an issue of her blood many days out of the time of her separation, or if it run beyond the time of her separation; all the days of the issue of her uncleanness shall be as the days of her separation: she shall be unclean. 26 Every bed whereon she lieth all the days of her issue shall be unto her as the bed of her separation: and whatsoever she sitteth upon shall be unclean, as the uncleanness of her separation. 27 And whosoever toucheth those things shall be unclean, and shall wash his clothes, and bathe himself in water, and be unclean until the even. 28 But if she be cleansed of her issue, then she shall number to herself seven days, and after that she shall be clean.
Leviticus 15:25-28

Christ the Lord could and did make people clean with a touch. He did not obey any of the Laws of God of the Old Covenant, concerning cleanliness. He fulfilled those Laws of God, even before the Crucifixion.

The revised Old Covenant

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