Where is "go to heaven" in the Bible?

Dan2255 · Nov 12, 2023

oikonomia said:
Where in the Bible do people get the concept of God wanting the saved to "go to heaven" forever?

I say the degree that people do not see what the church is is indiicated by how strong is
their belief that God wants them to "go to heaven" to be in heaven forever.

Demonstrate that "going to heaven" forever as God's desire for the saved is biblical teaching.

Paul writes this. 2 Corinthians 12 2 I knew a man in Christ above fourteen years ago, (whether in the body, I cannot tell; or whether out of the body, I cannot tell: God knoweth

such an one caught up to the third heaven.
This is where people before Christ and the following are those in Christ. And I knew such a man, (whether in the body, or out of the body, I cannot tell: God knoweth

4 How that he was caught up into paradise, and heard unspeakable words, which it is not lawful for a man to utter.

oikonomia · Nov 12, 2023

Dan2255 said:
Paul writes this. 2 Corinthians 12 2 I knew a man in Christ above fourteen years ago, (whether in the body, I cannot tell; or whether out of the body, I cannot tell: God knoweth such an one caught up to the third heaven.
This is where people before Christ and the following are those in Christ. And I knew such a man, (whether in the body, or out of the body, I cannot tell: God knoweth 4 How that he was caught up into paradise, and heard unspeakable words, which it is not lawful for a man to utter.

This passage does indeed show Paul had some kind of visit and vision of the third heaven.
Do you believe the unspeakable words Paul heard where he went could only be spoken by humans who were there?

I think Paul is referring to two excusions because of the conjunction "And".
I believe he was first, caught away to the third heaven (in or out of his body) AND
he was secondly, caught away to another place, Paradise (in or out of his body).

It is in Paradise the second experience where he heard unspeakable words. I believe that there are presently souls in Paradise.
The only time I can with certainty see raptured humans in heaven is when the corporate and collective man-child is
raptured to the throne of God about three and one half years before the end of the age. (See Revelation 12)

Der Alte · Nov 12, 2023

Dan2255 said:
Paul writes this. 2 Corinthians 12 2 I knew a man in Christ above fourteen years ago, (whether in the body, I cannot tell; or whether out of the body, I cannot tell: God knoweth such an one caught up to the third heaven.
This is where people before Christ and the following are those in Christ. And I knew such a man, (whether in the body, or out of the body, I cannot tell: God knoweth 4 How that he was caught up into paradise, and heard unspeakable words, which it is not lawful for a man to utter.

My understanding of "third heaven" is the abode of God. The first is the immediate atmosphere of the earth and the second the cosmos where the stars are,

oikonomia · Nov 12, 2023

Der Alte said:
My understanding of "third heaven" is the abode of God. The first is the immediate atmosphere of the earth and the second the cosmos where the stars are,

Jesus did tells us of the Father who is in heaven.

You then pray in this way: Our Father who is in the heavens, Your name be sanctified;
Your kingdom come; Your will be done, as in heaven, so also on earth. (Matt. 6:9,10)

For His kingdom to come on earth as it is in heaven, The triune God must dispense
Himself into His redeemed people. So we see the Son and the Father as the divine "We"
making an abode in the lovers of the Son.

Jesus answered and said to him, If anyone loves Me, he will keep My word, and My Father will love him, and We will come to him and make an abode with him. (John 14:23)

Pioneers like the Apostle Paul knew this and preached this- that is the Father is marvelously in all the members of Christ's Body.

One God and Father of all, who is over all and through all and in all. (Eph. 4:6)

Marilyn C · Nov 12, 2023

THE BODY OF CHRIST`S INHERITANCE IS IN HEAVEN.

Our inheritance, our hope, our place, our citizenship, all of which are IN HEAVEN.

`...to an inheritance incorruptible and undefiled and that does not fade away, reserved in heaven for you.` (1 Peter 1: 4 )

` ...because of the hope which is laid up for you in heaven, of which you heard before in the word of truth..`(Col. 1: 5)

` ...and raised us up together and made to sit in the heavenly places in Christ Jesus.`(Eph. 2: 6)

` For our citizenship is in heaven, from which we also eagerly await for the saviour, the Lord Jesus Christ.` (Phil. 3: 20)

(New King James)

Marilyn C · Nov 12, 2023

oikonomia · Nov 13, 2023

Marilyn C said:
THE BODY OF CHRIST`S INHERITANCE IS IN HEAVEN.

Our inheritance, our hope, our place, our citizenship, all of which are IN HEAVEN.

`...to an inheritance incorruptible and undefiled and that does not fade away, reserved in heaven for you.` (1 Peter 1: 4 )

Where is "go to heaven forever" in 1 Peter 1:4?

The inheritance is being enjoyed NOW here by some pioneering Christians. That is why Hebrews exhorts us not
to be sluggish but rather be imitators of those who are PRESENTLY inheriting the promises.

That you may not be sluggish, but imitators of those who through faith and long-suffering are inheriting the promises. (Heb. 6:12)

We should not think this means to die and go to heaven so we might be those IN HEAVEN enjoying the inheritance.

And when Jesus promised His disciples "that where I am you also may be" He spoke of where He was at that very time.
He did not say "that where I WILL BE you also may be".

And if I go and prepare a place for you, I am coming again and will receive you to Myself, so that where I am you also may be. (John 14:3)

He went to the cross. He came again in resurrection. He then breathed Himself INTO the disciples as the Spirit receiving them into the
Triune God.

And when He had said this, He showed them His hands and His side. The disciples therefore rejoiced at seeing the Lord.
Then Jesus said to them again, Peace be to you; as the Father has sent Me, I also send you.

And when He had said this, He breathed into them and said to them, Receive the Holy Spirit. (John 20:19-22)

They did not have to wait to be in heaven to enjoy the inheritance of the indwelling Christ.
And after this He ascended to Heaven where He Himself is reserved for us. At the same time
Christ in us is God's inheritance in the saints for His utter enjoyment if we would let Him do so.

The eyes of your heart having been enlightened, that you may know what is the hope of His calling, and what are the riches of the glory of His inheritance in the saints, (Eph. 1:18)

Marilyn C said:
` ...because of the hope which is laid up for you in heaven, of which you heard before in the word of truth..`(Col. 1: 5)

Where is "go to heaven forever" in Col. 1:5?

By living and experiencing Christ we are laying up hope in the heavens.
As the Psalmist said - Whom do I have in heaven but You? And besides You there is nothing I desire on earth.
My flesh and my heart fail, / But God is the rock of my heart and my portion forever. (Psalm 73:25,26)

He has no stock, no hope, no expectation from worldly life. Jehovah in Heaven is ALL his expectation.
His portion is God Himself. Nothing on earth is worthy of his desire.

In the New Testament this Jehovah has become a man, died and rose for eternal redemption, and come INTO
us as our life.

Colossians says the Father has PRESENTLY "qualified you for a share of the portion of the saints in the light." (Col. 1:12)
Colossians says God has already "delivered us out of the authority of darkness."
Colossians says God has PRESENTLY "transferred us into the kingdom of the Son of His love."

Excessive teaching about "going to heaven forever" has the tendency for Christians to postpone to a future date
all the riches of Christ we must be enjoying here on earth.

Concerning the future, Paul in Colossians was concerned to present all he served "full-grown in Christ."

. . . the riches of the glory of this mystery . . . which is Christ in you, the hope of glory,
Whom we announce, admonishing every man and teaching every man
in all wisdom that we may present every man full-grown in Christ; (Col. 1:27,28)

When we stand before Christ, he would us FULL-GROWN - mature, having Christ as life spead and saturate our being.
For this he labored, struggling by God's operation.

Too many dear Christians read "Christ IN YOU the hope of glory" as "going to heaven forever the hope of glory."
You must know that is true. Look up songs on Youtube about Heaven. You'll see quite a lopsided preoccupation with
going to heaven and quite a lack of concern with being "full-grown" in Christ.

I bet you could locate twenty hymns or contemporary Christian songs about going to heaven and
not too many on wanting to be "full-grown" with the Christ who is in us as the hope of glory.

Colossians says that we presently - "have been made full in Him, who is the Head of all rule and authority." (Col. 2:10)
Are you fighting for "We will be made full when we go to heaven forever?"

Colossians says - When Christ our life is manifested, then you also will be manifested with Him in glory. (Col. 3:4)
Are you stressing that Christ WILL BE our life when we go to Heaven forever?
How about we enter into the apostle's burden that we see that our life is now hidden with Christ in God. (v.3)

This Person who is in us as the hope of glory and as our life is in heaven "sitting at the right hand of God." (v.1)
But He lives in us. And we must set our minds on Him and all His riches - "the the things which are above".

. . . seek the things which are above, where Christ is, sitting at the right hand of God.
Set your mind on the things which are above, not on the things which are on the earth.

For you died, and your life is hidden with Christ in God. (Col. 3:2,3)

When He does appear we want to be full-grown that we may appear with Him in the glorious expression
of God living in us too.

When Christ our life is manifested, then you also will be manifested with Him in glory. (Col. 3:4)

Marilyn C said:
` ...and raised us up together and made to sit in the heavenly places in Christ Jesus.`(Eph. 2: 6)

Notice that He HAS raised us up to sit with Him in heavenly places TODAY.
Do you read into that "He WILL raise us up to sit in Heaven in the future?"

This revelation emphasis that all that Christ has obtained and attained is our history.
We have been crucified with Him.
We have been raised up in resurrection with Him.
We have been made to sit with Him in heavenly places far above all.

These truths we need to stand upon. That is that our legacy, our history is with all that Christ accomplished.

For you died,
you were raised together with Christ,
made to sit in the heavenly places in Christ Jesus.

Marilyn C said:
` For our citizenship is in heaven, from which we also eagerly await for the saviour, the Lord Jesus Christ.` (Phil. 3: 20)

Where does it say "we go to heaven" in Phil. 3:20?

What I read is that FROM there we eagerly await a Savior for the transfiguration of our bodies.

For our commonwealth exists in the heavens, from which also we eagerly await a Savior, the Lord Jesus Christ,

Who will transfigure the body of our humiliation to be conformed to the body of His glory,
according to His operation by which He is able even to subject all things to Himself. (Phil. 3:20,21)

Are you saying that Christ can only subject all things to Himself if we go to Heaven?

Marilyn C · Nov 13, 2023

oikonomia said:
Where is "go to heaven forever" in 1 Peter 1:4?

The inheritance is being enjoyed NOW here by some pioneering Christians. That is why Hebrews exhorts us not
to be sluggish but rather be imitators of those who are PRESENTLY inheriting the promises.

That you may not be sluggish, but imitators of those who through faith and long-suffering are inheriting the promises. (Heb. 6:12)

We should not think this means to die and go to heaven so we might be those IN HEAVEN enjoying the inheritance.

And when Jesus promised His disciples "that where I am you also may be" He spoke of where He was at that very time.
He did not say "that where I WILL BE you also may be".

And if I go and prepare a place for you, I am coming again and will receive you to Myself, so that where I am you also may be. (John 14:3)

He went to the cross. He came again in resurrection. He then breathed Himself INTO the disciples as the Spirit receiving them into the
Triune God.

And when He had said this, He showed them His hands and His side. The disciples therefore rejoiced at seeing the Lord.
Then Jesus said to them again, Peace be to you; as the Father has sent Me, I also send you.

And when He had said this, He breathed into them and said to them, Receive the Holy Spirit. (John 20:19-22)

They did not have to wait to be in heaven to enjoy the inheritance of the indwelling Christ.
And after this He ascended to Heaven where He Himself is reserved for us. At the same time
Christ in us is God's inheritance in the saints for His utter enjoyment if we would let Him do so.

The eyes of your heart having been enlightened, that you may know what is the hope of His calling, and what are the riches of the glory of His inheritance in the saints, (Eph. 1:18)

Where is "go to heaven forever" in Col. 1:5?

By living and experiencing Christ we are laying up hope in the heavens.
As the Psalmist said - Whom do I have in heaven but You? And besides You there is nothing I desire on earth.
My flesh and my heart fail, / But God is the rock of my heart and my portion forever. (Psalm 73:25,26)

He has no stock, no hope, no expectation from worldly life. Jehovah in Heaven is ALL his expectation.
His portion is God Himself. Nothing on earth is worthy of his desire.

In the New Testament this Jehovah has become a man, died and rose for eternal redemption, and come INTO
us as our life.

Colossians says the Father has PRESENTLY "qualified you for a share of the portion of the saints in the light." (Col. 1:12)
Colossians says God has already "delivered us out of the authority of darkness."
Colossians says God has PRESENTLY "transferred us into the kingdom of the Son of His love."

Excessive teaching about "going to heaven forever" has the tendency for Christians to postpone to a future date
all the riches of Christ we must be enjoying here on earth.

Concerning the future, Paul in Colossians was concerned to present all he served "full-grown in Christ."

. . . the riches of the glory of this mystery . . . which is Christ in you, the hope of glory,
Whom we announce, admonishing every man and teaching every man
in all wisdom that we may present every man full-grown in Christ; (Col. 1:27,28)

When we stand before Christ, he would us FULL-GROWN - mature, having Christ as life spead and saturate our being.
For this he labored, struggling by God's operation.

Too many dear Christians read "Christ IN YOU the hope of glory" as "going to heaven forever the hope of glory."
You must know that is true. Look up songs on Youtube about Heaven. You'll see quite a lopsided preoccupation with
going to heaven and quite a lack of concern with being "full-grown" in Christ.

I bet you could locate twenty hymns or contemporary Christian songs about going to heaven and
not too many on wanting to be "full-grown" with the Christ who is in us as the hope of glory.

Colossians says that we presently - "have been made full in Him, who is the Head of all rule and authority." (Col. 2:10)
Are you fighting for "We will be made full when we go to heaven forever?"

Colossians says - When Christ our life is manifested, then you also will be manifested with Him in glory. (Col. 3:4)
Are you stressing that Christ WILL BE our life when we go to Heaven forever?
How about we enter into the apostle's burden that we see that our life is now hidden with Christ in God. (v.3)

This Person who is in us as the hope of glory and as our life is in heaven "sitting at the right hand of God." (v.1)
But He lives in us. And we must set our minds on Him and all His riches - "the the things which are above".

. . . seek the things which are above, where Christ is, sitting at the right hand of God.
Set your mind on the things which are above, not on the things which are on the earth.

For you died, and your life is hidden with Christ in God. (Col. 3:2,3)

When He does appear we want to be full-grown that we may appear with Him in the glorious expression
of God living in us too.

When Christ our life is manifested, then you also will be manifested with Him in glory. (Col. 3:4)

Notice that He HAS raised us up to sit with Him in heavenly places TODAY.
Do you read into that "He WILL raise us up to sit in Heaven in the future?"

This revelation emphasis that all that Christ has obtained and attained is our history.
We have been crucified with Him.
We have been raised up in resurrection with Him.
We have been made to sit with Him in heavenly places far above all.

These truths we need to stand upon. That is that our legacy, our history is with all that Christ accomplished.

For you died,
you were raised together with Christ,
made to sit in the heavenly places in Christ Jesus.

Where does it say "we go to heaven" in Phil. 3:20?

What I read is that FROM there we eagerly await a Savior for the transfiguration of our bodies.

For our commonwealth exists in the heavens, from which also we eagerly await a Savior, the Lord Jesus Christ,

Who will transfigure the body of our humiliation to be conformed to the body of His glory,
according to His operation by which He is able even to subject all things to Himself. (Phil. 3:20,21)

Are you saying that Christ can only subject all things to Himself if we go to Heaven?

Hi oikonomia,

`And all these, having obtained a good testimony through faith, DID NOT receive the promise,...` (Heb. 11: 39)

`And to him who overcomes shall sit with me on My throne,...` (Rev. 3: 21)

oikonomia · Nov 13, 2023

Marilyn C said:
Hi oikonomia,

`And all these, having obtained a good testimony through faith, DID NOT receive the promise,...` (Heb. 11: 39)

Greetings Marilyn.

There is a BECAUSE after that clause.

And these all, having obtained a good testimony through their faith, did not obtain the promise,
Because God has provided something better for us, so that apart from us they would not be made perfect. (Heb. 11:39,40)

You see with the popular belief in heaven going, there IS nothing better. Right?

The something better is what we ALL are headed for - God dispensing His life and nature into His people.

To say some are inheriting the promises does not mean all the promises have been inherited.
The writer is referring to the new testament saints. The writer is not referring to imitating the OT saints.
It says that in New Testament terms that God's life is growing in those with new covenant indwelling of Christ.

We should be in the process of inheriting the New Testament promises about Christ growing in us and'
His church being built up with this growth.

As for the OT saints they are urging us on as a sorrounding cloud of witness.
They cannot be perfected apart from the building of God into new covenant believers.

Marilyn C said:
`And to him who overcomes shall sit with me on My throne,...` (Rev. 3: 21)

This promise should mean the overcomers join Him ON EARTH to shepherd the nations ON EARTH.
And it is erroneous to think Christ will not have a throne on earth.

But when the Son of Man comes in His glory and all the angels with Him, at that time He will sit on the throne of His glory.
And all the nations will be gathered before Him, and He will separate them from one another, just as the shepherd separates the sheep from the goats. (Matt. 25:31,32)

This throne will be in Jerusalem not in heaven unseen and far away.
For then Jerusalem will be called "the city of the great King."

Great is Jehovah, . . . In the city of our God, In His holy mountain.
Beautiful in elevation, The joy of the whole earth, . . . The city of the great King. (Psalm 48:1,2)

We should have no problem understanding that the Messiah's throne in Jerusalem is also His Father's throne.
For the kingdom of the millennium is also called "the kingdom of their Father."

Then the righteous will shine forth like the sun in the kingdom of their Father. (Matt. 13:43)

Marilyn C · Nov 14, 2023

oikonomia said:
Greetings Marilyn.

There is a BECAUSE after that clause.

And these all, having obtained a good testimony through their faith, did not obtain the promise,
Because God has provided something better for us, so that apart from us they would not be made perfect. (Heb. 11:39,40)

`Something better ` in Greek `kreitton from kratos` meaning greater dominion. We, the Body of Christ have an inheritance of a greater dominion than the OT saints, (Heb. 11 people)

Marilyn C · Nov 14, 2023

oikonomia said:
This promise should mean the overcomers join Him ON EARTH to shepherd the nations ON EARTH.
And it is erroneous to think Christ will not have a throne on earth.

But when the Son of Man comes in His glory and all the angels with Him, at that time He will sit on the throne of His glory.
And all the nations will be gathered before Him, and He will separate them from one another, just as the shepherd separates the sheep from the goats. (Matt. 25:31,32)

This throne will be in Jerusalem not in heaven unseen and far away.
For then Jerusalem will be called "the city of the great King."

Great is Jehovah, . . . In the city of our God, In His holy mountain.
Beautiful in elevation, The joy of the whole earth, . . . The city of the great King. (Psalm 48:1,2)

We should have no problem understanding that the Messiah's throne in Jerusalem is also His Father's throne.
For the kingdom of the millennium is also called "the kingdom of their Father."

Then the righteous will shine forth like the sun in the kingdom of their Father. (Matt. 13:43)

Yes, I agree that the Lord has a throne on earth, It represents His rulership, but is not the seat of His power. The Father set His Son on the heavenly Mount Zion, (Ps. 2: 6) in the highest. (Eph. 1: 20 & 21)

oikonomia · Nov 14, 2023

Marilyn C said:
`Something better ` in Greek `kreitton from kratos` meaning greater dominion. We, the Body of Christ have an inheritance of a greater dominion than the OT saints, (Heb. 11 people)

I am aware of kreitton and how is used in the book of Hebrews.

It means stronger, more powerful, nobler, and greater:, therefore it can be translated in English as "better."
It is used thirteen times in Hebrews:
the better Christ (1:4)
better things (6:9)
the better hope (7:19)
a better covenant (7:22; 8:6)
better promises (8:6)
better sacrifices (9:23)
a better possesion (10:35)
a better country (11:16)
a better resurrection (11:35)
something better (11:40)
a better speaking (12:24)

The other time is in 7:7, where it is translated "greater" (KJV, NKJV, NASB, NIV, NLT, Amplified) and others.
"superior" in (ESV, CSB, HCSB, NRSV) and others.
"more important" (ISV, Weymouth NT)

All these instances are the fulfillment and reality of the things which the OT saints had in type, figures, and shadows.
God's eternal purpose is exceedingly profound and was unveiled in progressive stages over time.
What God had in view at that time of the OT was the things to come in the new covenant concerning us Christians.
In Christ we have the true and real things in God being incarnated, redeeming death and resurrection and life imparting into us.

So the things of the new covenant are stronger, more powerful,nobler, and greater than thier types, figures, and shadows.
The Old Testament saints, who had only the shadows, need us the New Testament saints for thier perfection that they may share the real things of the new covenant with us. Hebrews is also arguing that new covenant saints should not leave the real things and turn
to the shadows of the old covenant.

Rather we should be perfected in the real things of Christ imparted into us that the OT saints may benefit from
the iving "organic" city being "built" and they may join us - a habitation of God in spirit. (Eph. 2:22)

cont. below

oikonomia · Nov 14, 2023

Marilyn C said:
`Something better ` in Greek `kreitton from kratos` meaning greater dominion. We, the Body of Christ have an inheritance of a greater dominion than the OT saints, (Heb. 11 people)

God has one all important building which He is building.
In the new covenant age it is the church.
Eventually that enlarged, expanded building is the New Jerusalem of Rev. 21,22.

During the millennial kingdom the overcomers of both ages share together
the New Jerusalem.

These seems to cause some Christians problems.
It seems the national promises that God will keep to Israel (they think) somehow
make it unlikely that those Israelites cannot also be participating in New Jerusalem.

I don't see why that causes some an issue.
In the Body of Christ you have many members who performs different functions.

But there are distinctions of gifts, but the same Spirit;
And there are distinctions of ministries, yet the same Lord;
And there are distinctions of operations, but the same God, who operates all things in all (1 Cor. 12:5-6)

If the foot should say, Because I am not a hand, I am not of the body, it is not that because of this it is not of the body.
And if the ear should say, Because I am not an eye, I am not of the body, it is not that because of this it is not of the body.
If the whole body were an eye, where would the hearing be? If the whole were the hearing, where would the smelling be? (vs. 15-17)

Different functions performed by OT overcomers from NT overcomers in the millennium I don't see as
precluding that they cannot be consitituents of New Jerusalem that have specific responsibilities
related to age old promises to national Israel.

Explain in a few more words to me why kings and priests for example, performing different functions
cannot both be consituents of the holy city New Jerusalem right after Christ's second coming.
Then I will consider that analysis, if I might be mistaken.

oikonomia · Nov 14, 2023

Marilyn C said:
Yes, I agree that the Lord has a throne on earth, It represents His rulership, but is not the seat of His power. The Father set His Son on the heavenly Mount Zion, (Ps. 2: 6) in the highest. (Eph. 1: 20 & 21)

I am sorry. This does not make too good sense to me.
A throne, a rulership, set by His Father, which is somehow NOT "the seat of His power?"

This is the triune nature of God. One lives in the other in mutual coinherance.

oikonomia · Nov 14, 2023

Marilyn C said:
Yes, I agree that the Lord has a throne on earth, It represents His rulership, but is not the seat of His power. The Father set His Son on the heavenly Mount Zion, (Ps. 2: 6) in the highest. (Eph. 1: 20 & 21)

Consider Ephesians 1:20,21.

Which He caused to operate in Christ in raising Him from the dead and seating Him at His right hand in the heavenlies,
Far above all rule and authority and power and lordship and every name that is named not only in this age but also in that which is to come;

This is now the church age. In this age Who has the highest name? Jesus Christ.
The next age to come is the millennial kingdom age. In that age Who has the highest name? Still it is Jesus Christ.
Far above all rule and authority and power and lordship and every name that is named not only in this age but also in that which is to come;

In the next age as well as in this age His authority and power is above all power and lordship and that of every name.
Psalm 2:6 cannot contradict this. It affirms it because God is Three-One - the Triune God.

Postvieww · Nov 28, 2023

oikonomia said:
What verse would you point to to demonstrate that now, today any people are in the 3rd Heaven?

2 Corinthians 5:6 Therefore we are always confident, knowing that, whilst we are at home in the body, we are absent from the Lord:

7 (For we walk by faith, not by sight

8 We are confident, I say, and willing rather to be absent from the body, and to be present with the Lord.

I agree with you we are not going to spend eternity in heaven but I do believe that the believer who dies goes in soul, spirit to be with the Lord.

From what I understand you are saying there is no pre-trib rapture to heaven. If that is your position I do agree with that.

To further support the fact that the dead in Christ do go to heaven to be with the Lord until he returns I offer the passages below.

Revelation 6:9 And when he had opened the fifth seal, I saw under the altar the souls of them that were slain for the word of God, and for the testimony which they held:

10 And they cried with a loud voice, saying, How long, O Lord, holy and true, dost thou not judge and avenge our blood on them that dwell on the earth?

These souls are in heaven.

1 Thessalonians 4:13 But I would not have you to be ignorant, brethren, concerning them which are asleep, that ye sorrow not, even as others which have no hope.

14 For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so them also which sleep in Jesus will God bring with him.

When Jesus returns He will bring with Him all of the dead in Christ up until that point.

Zechariah 14:5 And ye shall flee to the valley of the mountains; for the valley of the mountains shall reach unto Azal: yea, ye shall flee, like as ye fled from before the earthquake in the days of Uzziah king of Judah: and the Lord my God shall come, and all the saints with thee.

Jude14 And Enoch also, the seventh from Adam, prophesied of these, saying, Behold, the Lord cometh with ten thousands of his saints,

Dan Perez · Nov 28, 2023

Postvieww said:
2 Corinthians 5:6 Therefore we are always confident, knowing that, whilst we are at home in the body, we are absent from the Lord:

7 (For we walk by faith, not by sight

8 We are confident, I say, and willing rather to be absent from the body, and to be present with the Lord.

I agree with you we are not going to spend eternity in heaven but I do believe that the believer who dies goes in soul, spirit to be with the Lord.

From what I understand you are saying there is no pre-trib rapture to heaven. If that is your position I do agree with that.

To further support the fact that the dead in Christ do go to heaven to be with the Lord until he returns I offer the passages below.

Revelation 6:9 And when he had opened the fifth seal, I saw under the altar the souls of them that were slain for the word of God, and for the testimony which they held:

10 And they cried with a loud voice, saying, How long, O Lord, holy and true, dost thou not judge and avenge our blood on them that dwell on the earth?

These souls are in heaven.

1 Thessalonians 4:13 But I would not have you to be ignorant, brethren, concerning them which are asleep, that ye sorrow not, even as others which have no hope.

14 For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so them also which sleep in Jesus will God bring with him.

When Jesus returns He will bring with Him all of the dead in Christ up until that point.

Zechariah 14:5 And ye shall flee to the valley of the mountains; for the valley of the mountains shall reach unto Azal: yea, ye shall flee, like as ye fled from before the earthquake in the days of Uzziah king of Judah: and the Lord my God shall come, and all the saints with thee.

Jude14 And Enoch also, the seventh from Adam, prophesied of these, saying, Behold, the Lord cometh with ten thousands of his saints,

For one we are going to spend ETERNITY in heaven and 1 Cor 6:2 we are going to GOVERN the UNIVERSE and in verse 3 we will be GOVERN ANGELS ..

Then INIVERSE has to be bigger than the THIRD HEAVEN .

Since we know that there is Abraham BOSOM and GREAT GULF where HELL is , Luke 16:19-31 is where the SOUL is .

The BODY goes to the GRAVE .

The SPIRIT goes tp the THRID HEAVEN as written in 2 Cor 12:1-4 the THIRD HEAVEN , which many call the Intermediate State .

If anyone has a better explanation , be happy to share that verse .

If anyone trys to use 2 Cor 5:6 OR 8 , there would have to a RESURRECTION .

dan p

CoreyD · Nov 29, 2023

Dan Perez said:
For one we are going to spend ETERNITY in heaven and 1 Cor 6:2 we are going to GOVERN the UNIVERSE and in verse 3 we will be GOVERN ANGELS ..

Then INIVERSE has to be bigger than the THIRD HEAVEN .

Since we know that there is Abraham BOSOM and GREAT GULF where HELL is , Luke 16:19-31 is where the SOUL is .

The BODY goes to the GRAVE .

The SPIRIT goes tp the THRID HEAVEN as written in 2 Cor 12:1-4 the THIRD HEAVEN , which many call the Intermediate State .

If anyone has a better explanation , be happy to share that verse .

If anyone trys to use 2 Cor 5:6 OR 8 , there would have to a RESURRECTION .

dan p

I'm just wondering if we are going to spend ETERNITY in heaven and are going to GOVERN the UNIVERSE and we will be GOVERN ANGELS... Does that mean there will be no humans around to govern?

Postvieww · Nov 29, 2023

Dan Perez said:
For one we are going to spend ETERNITY in heaven and 1 Cor 6:2 we are going to GOVERN the UNIVERSE and in verse 3 we will be GOVERN ANGELS ..

I see you provided a scripture to support us governing the universe ( actually says judge the world) but no scripture to support spending eternity in heaven where God now dwells.

No we are not going to spend eternity in heaven where God now dwells reread my post with provided scripture and see if you can find one to support your notion.

1 Thessalonians 4:13 But I would not have you to be ignorant, brethren, concerning them which are asleep, that ye sorrow not, even as others which have no hope.

14 For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so them also which sleep in Jesus will God bring with him.

When Jesus returns He will bring with Him all of the dead in Christ up until that point.

Zechariah 14:5 And ye shall flee to the valley of the mountains; for the valley of the mountains shall reach unto Azal: yea, ye shall flee, like as ye fled from before the earthquake in the days of Uzziah king of Judah: and the Lord my God shall come, and all the saints with thee.

Jude14 And Enoch also, the seventh from Adam, prophesied of these, saying, Behold, the Lord cometh with ten thousands of his saints,

Read Revelation Chapter 21!

parousia70 · Dec 14, 2023

Hebrews 11:13-16
13 These all died in faith, not having received the promises, but having seen them afar off were assured of them, embraced them and confessed that they were strangers and pilgrims on the earth. 14 For those who say such things declare plainly that they seek a homeland. 15 And truly if they had called to mind that country from which they had come out, they would have had opportunity to return. 16 But now they desire a better, that is, a heavenly country. Therefore God is not ashamed to be called their God, for He has prepared a city for them.

Where is "go to heaven" in the Bible?

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This is me about 1 yr. old. when FDR was president

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Pre-tribulation.

Pre-tribulation.

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Pre-tribulation.

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Pre-tribulation.

Pre-tribulation.

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Believer

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Believer

Livin' in yesterday's tomorrow

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