Did Jesus sin by calling himself the savior of the world?

[Clare73]

So by your definition we can only use "all" after Moses? Before Moses there were no Jews and Gentiles, before Abraham there were only Gentiles. The context dictates how the all should be used. Rom 11:32 " For God has committed them all to disobedience, that he might have mercy on all" the same all committed to disobedience is the same all he will give mercy to, it has nothing to do with Jew and Gentile. Jesus is not a sinner but in some traditions that teach most are lost forever, then yes Jesus missed the mark and by definition would be a sinner. Thankfully the Holy Spirit has awakened some to see that when Jesus is called the savior of the world , we understand that as a declaration not a possibility.

Read again the first sentence I stated.

The context of Scripture includes pre-Abraham before there were "Gentiles."

 

[Clare73]

So by your definition we can only use "all" after Moses? Before Moses there were no Jews and Gentiles, before Abraham there were only Gentiles. The context dictates how the all should be used. Rom 11:32 " For God has committed them all to disobedience, that
he might have mercy on all" the same all committed to disobedience is the same all he will give mercy to,

Not quite. . ."might" is not determinative.

 

[Jeff Saunders]

I believe you are looking at this the wrong way. Yes, Jesus Christ of Nazareth claimed and is the Savior of the world. There is no other that can or will take the title, " Savior ". That being said, He fully fullfilled His end of the promise now we need to fulfill our end. Believe and be saved.
Blessings

Let me ask a question- There is a burning building with 100 people in it, one fireman comes and goes in and only gets 10 out because the other 90 did not believe the building was on fire and choose to remain and then burned up all 90 of them died, he could have saved them but chose to do otherwise. Now the same building on fire 100 people inside different fireman goes in 90 people don't believe the building is on fire but he waits till they pass out from heat exhaustion and gets all 100 people out even those who didn't want out. who is the savior of the 100 ?
Only those who are blinded by tradition could say the guy who saved 10 is the true savior over the one who saved all 100.
Its like a dad with his two year old son on a sidewalk off a busy road, and the son darts off toward traffic, and he has the power and means to reach out and grab in and stop him but lets him go get hit by a car and die. Any sane person would not call that a father loving his child. When God does the same thing, seeing his children going toward destruction and sees their will is to destroy themselves and he doesn't stop them but instead torchers them forever, we say, that's ok because Gods ways are higher than ours. Thant's crazy tradition handed down from men, who got it from the enemy so as to make God look like a monster.

 

[Jeff Saunders]

Not quite. . ."might" is not determinative.

"might" is not even in the Greek . The Greek uses hina which means "that, in order that, so that" Go look it up - Biblehub has the Greek .

 

[Clare73]

I believe you are looking at this the wrong way. Yes, Jesus Christ of Nazareth claimed and is the Savior of the world. There is no other that can or will take the title, " Savior ". That being said, He fully fullfilled His end of the promise now we need to fulfill our end. Believe and be saved.
Blessings

Yes, only the born again are saved (Jn 3:3-5), and that rebirth is a decision of the sovereign (as unaccountable as the wind, Jn 3:6-8) Holy Spirit.

 

[JulieB67]

You have the answer in your question- the reason Jesus can say he is reconciling all to him is exactly why he is long suffering,

Again, he's long suffering not willing anyone should perish but that all should come to repentance. That they should come to repentance. They- themselves. It's not up to him at that point. We have to take some responsibility. He's not going to force anyone which is what you seem to imply. I posted that it's stated many don't repent and many will still follow Satan in the end. We've seen the back of the book.

We have verses such this one from Christ's letters to the churches-

Revelation 3:5 "He that overcometh, the same shall be clothed in white raiment; and I will not blot out his name out of the book of life, but I will confess his name before my Father, and before his angels."

There's a condition there. Are you stating Christ is not speaking the truth in this verse? The opposite of life we know is death. And anyone not found in the book of life is thrown into the Lake of Fire. There's not one verse that even implies anyone ever returns from that. God refines people in their lifetimes, not in the Lake of Fire. It is not a refinery. It was prepared for the devil and his angels. And why even have a book of life if what you believe is true? For what purpose if all have life in the end? Again, that makes no sense at all.


You keep cherry picking verses to prop up your doctrine but it does not stand up when we take the Bible as a whole. Yes, Christ is the savior for the world. He came to be that sacrifice and he was successful. He beat death and became our one an all time atonement. But many will not accept him or his words and our Father will not force them.

 

[Clare73]

"might" is not even in the Greek . The Greek uses hina which means "that, in order that, so that" Go look it up - Biblehub has the Greek .

I'm not referring to hina, I'm referring to eleese (he may show mercy).

 

[Strong in Him]

Sin is missing the mark, its a archery term meaning that you did not hit what you were aiming for. John 12:47 says Jesus came to save the cosmos not judge it, /
Luke 19:10 For the Son of man came to seek and save the lost. John 4:42 Jesus is the Christ the savior of the world.
If you believe that most of the people that God creates will be in torcher forever or annihilated then Jesus did not hit the mark.
Even if one person is not saved in the end that would mean that Jesus did not hit the mark, so would that make Jesus a sinner?

No.
If Jesus had sinned, he could not have died for our sins.
Jesus' sacrifice is for all - not all will accept it.

 

[NBB]

Yes you must believe . That is why scripture says " Every knee will bow and every tongue will confess that Jesus is Lord" the Greek word for confess Exomologeo - to acknowledge, openly and joyfully, to celebrate, to give praise without reservations. This will happen in the end ad 1 Cor15:28 says " God will be all in all " No place in scripture says that you can't repent after the death of the mortal body. Do those who repent after death lose their inheritance, yes, but they dont burn forever. God is not a monster but a loving Father in whom there is no darkness.

Jesus said the path to perdition is wide and many enter it, he also said God 'doesn't want any of this little ones for them to get lost'
For is appointed that men die one time and after that judgment.
Those who did good are going to inherit eternal life, but those who do evil and did not believe will have eternal perdition.

 

[Strong in Him]

Those who did good are going to inherit eternal life, but those who do evil and did not believe will have eternal perdition.

Jesus saves, not good deeds.
Someone can do good all their life but not accept Jesus - they are not saved.
Someone can be a criminal, spend time in jail, become a Christian but die before they can do anything. They have eternal life. I've heard of murderers on death row who have done just that. And Jesus told the thief on the cross that he would be with him in paradise.

 

[d taylor]

So are you saying that it is not a sin to reject Jesus ?

-
​

It is a sin to not believe God and believe in Jesus, but that sin has been forgiven.

 

[NBB]

Jesus saves, not good deeds.
Someone can do good all their life but not accept Jesus - they are not saved.
Someone can be a criminal, spend time in jail, become a Christian but die before they can do anything. They have eternal life. I've heard of murderers on death row who have done just that. And Jesus told the thief on the cross that he would be with him in paradise.

7 Some people live for God’s glory, for honor, and for life that cannot be destroyed. They live for those things by always continuing to do good. God will give eternal life to them. 8 But others are selfish and refuse to follow truth. They follow evil. God will show his anger and punish them. 9 He will give trouble and suffering to everyone who does evil—to the Jews first and also to those who are not Jews.

 

[RDKirk]

So by your definition we can only use "all" after Moses? Before Moses there were no Jews and Gentiles, before Abraham there were only Gentiles. The context dictates how the all should be used. Rom 11:32 " For God has committed them all to disobedience, that he might have mercy on all" the same all committed to disobedience is the same all he will give mercy to, it has nothing to do with Jew and Gentile. Jesus is not a sinner but in some traditions that teach most are lost forever, then yes Jesus missed the mark and by definition would be a sinner. Thankfully the Holy Spirit has awakened some to see that when Jesus is called the savior of the world , we understand that as a declaration not a possibility.

In Paul's context, "all" still means "no distinction between Gentile and Jew" not "every individual."

Are you trying in a provocatively roundabout way to prove universalism?

 

[Maria Billingsley]

Let me ask a question- There is a burning building with 100 people in it, one fireman comes and goes in and only gets 10 out because the other 90 did not believe the building was on fire and choose to remain and then burned up all 90 of them died, he could have saved them but chose to do otherwise. Now the same building on fire 100 people inside different fireman goes in 90 people don't believe the building is on fire but he waits till they pass out from heat exhaustion and gets all 100 people out even those who didn't want out. who is the savior of the 100 ?
Only those who are blinded by tradition could say the guy who saved 10 is the true savior over the one who saved all 100.
Its like a dad with his two year old son on a sidewalk off a busy road, and the son darts off toward traffic, and he has the power and means to reach out and grab in and stop him but lets him go get hit by a car and die. Any sane person would not call that a father loving his child. When God does the same thing, seeing his children going toward destruction and sees their will is to destroy themselves and he doesn't stop them but instead torchers them forever, we say, that's ok because Gods ways are higher than ours. Thant's crazy tradition handed down from men, who got it from the enemy so as to make God look like a monster.

It seems to me that those who chose to burn just didn't believe a FIREMAN was there to save them no matter what the situation. Let us reason.
Blessings
-

 

[BelieveItOarKnot]

I do not know how firefighters are trained but I has to become a life guard at our summer camp and in the training we were taught that sometimes drowning victims were so afraid that they would fight the very person trying to save them, and they showed us how to overcome their resistance. No lifeguard would just say ok go ahead and drown, rather they would give their life to save another. If human lifeguards are like that do think that they are better than Jesus ? The only person who would not want to be saved is the one who has mental issues and is not thinking with a truly free will, they are deceived and not thinking as a whole normal human, made in Gods image.

IF I remember my training for the drowning person, it was to give them a good hard whack in the head. They may have modified the arrangements since. It was 5 plus decades ago

 

[BelieveItOarKnot]

It seems to me that those who chose to burn just didn't believe a FIREMAN was there to save them no matter what the situation. Let us reason.
Blessings
-

I generally reject any notions of God in Christ being invalidated because someone didn't "choose" to make Him valid. That's a pretty strange approach, that God could save someone if only they choose to make God valid.

God is not in need of the choices of anyone. And let's face the fact that we all chose both good and evil. It's never a one side only deal for any of us.

I've witnessed thousands of times to just about everyone I've met in a very simple and personally understood way.

You know that warmth you feel in your heart when you do good or you love? That's the spirit of God in Christ, regardless of what brand of Jesus you might choose to paint over it. God Is Love. Plain and simple. And those who LOVE know God and are born of God. 1 John 4:7

No sense making things difficult and put up barriers.

It's time to bring in everyone. Rev. 5:13

 

[BelieveItOarKnot]

In Paul's context, "all" still means "no distinction between Gentile and Jew" not "every individual."

Are you trying in a provocatively roundabout way to prove universalism?

Jew and Gentile pretty much covers the entire spectrum of people.

And even "universalism" has distinctions. For example some universalists believe that the devil and his messengers, universally, will be in the LoF at the end of this current exercise/age.

I'd suggest almost every Christian sect is universal in this way. Devils are "universally" only disobediently evil. That's how this system is set up by God.

Some universalists stretch the point to include Satanic salvation. That seems a bit of an unjustifiable stretch to me.

 

[Maria Billingsley]

God is not in need of the choices of anyone....

This is the core of Calvinist theology in which I do not adhere to.
Thanks for sharing.
Blessings

 

[Jeff Saunders]

Read again the first sentence I stated.

The context of Scripture includes pre-Abraham before there were "Gentiles."

Are we not supposed to get the definition from context and not context from the definition? Here is an example- The Greek word Soso , the definition is to be saved from harm or death, physical ailment , and the Christians used it for what we call salvation. Jesus used sozo after healing someone, that's not saved as in trusting Jesus for aionion life, its physically back to health, or when the disciples were in the boat and thought they were going to drown they asked Jesus to sozo them. It was also used to mean following Jesus as Lord for aionion life. The context of the verse tells the definition of the word, when the disciples thought they were going to drown they said sozo us and they were not asking for aionion sozo but they were afraid of drowning and wanted Jesus to sozo them.

 

[Jeff Saunders]

It seems to me that those who chose to burn just didn't believe a FIREMAN was there to save them no matter what the situation. Let us reason.
Blessings
-

Yes there are those who don't know they need saving and will fight the first responder, but as trained lifesavers you deny their free will and do whatever you have to to save that person even if it means you give up your life in the process. If mortal humans can save, even those who don't wont to be saved or even know they need saving, do you not think our creator is lesser than mortal humans? Reason says that an all loving creator, who wants all to be saved, and has all the power and will to do it, will make a way to get the job done. And he has, that's why scripture says "every knee will bow and every tongue will confess that Jesus is Lord" Jesus is the truest first responder who will save all his creation.