The misunderstood Book of James & parsing the covenants.

BrotherJJ · Sep 3, 2023

Rom 15:4 For whatsoever things were written aforetime were written for our learning, that we through patience and comfort of the scriptures might have hope.
(MY NOTE: ALL scripture is written for our LEARNING. ALL scripture isn't written for our DOCTRINE. Example related directly to the post: Are NT believers required to be circumcised & keep the OC law of Moses?)

Myles Coverdale; a Bible theologian/translator from the 1500’s. He wrote the Coverdale. Say's don't judge Scripture by what is spoken, or written only.

When dissecting any verse of scripture. Ask yourself, of whom, to whom, with what words, what time, where, to what intent, with what circumstances, considering what is written before and what follows any single verse context.

Abrahamic covenant was based on the UNCONDITIONAL promises from God & cut by Him alone (Gen 15:4-18). Today's New covenant is a partial fulfillment of Abrahamic covenant promises. Today's New covenant was cut & is mediated by God/Christ alone. And requires FAITH ALONE to access it's blessings.

The Mosaic law covenant cut at Sinai, was an CONDITIONAL covenant cut by TWO parties, the people & the Lord (Ex 19:8). It required SELF-WORKS to access God's blessings (Deut 28:1-14) Curses were levied for non-compliance (Deut 28:15-68)

James a teacher of the circumcision (Gal 2:9). He's writing to Israelites still observing Mosaic law, Temple worship, circumcision, daily sacrifices etc. Ja 1:1: Is written to the "twelve tribes" [of Israel] which are scattered abroad.

James was a Mosaic law adherent/Judaizer = Someone that believed in Jesus & believed that you must believe Jesus was Messiah & follow Mosaic law in order to be saved. James sent men to spy on Peter & Barnabas to see if they were eating with Gentiles. (Gal 2:12).

The Acts 15 Council of Jerusalem takes place years after James writes his epistle. This is a key transitional inflection point!

At the Council of Jerusalem James, ALL the Apostles & elders debate & agree. Then send letters (Acts 15:23) to the gentiles churches. Stating gentiles don't have to be circumcised or keep the law of Moses (Acts 15:24) to be SAVED.

The good news of salvation for BOTH gentile & Jew isn't found in James Epistle. The gentile/Jew Body of Christ good news by which NT Body of Christ believers are saved: Is that Christ died for your sins, was buried & rose from the dead (1 Cor 15:1-4).

The gentile/Jew good news has no connection to circumcision or Mosaic law adherence. James writings have ZERO about the NT Body of Christ. You won't find Paul's (one body) Jew & gentile doctrine anywhere in James epistle.

The Body of Christ leadership has Pastors & Deacons (Tim 1 2, & Titus). Good luck finding Pastors & Deacons at the Temple when James is written.

There is a transitional period of time. From aprox 40 Ad until the Temple is destroyed in 70 AD. When BOTH Temple & Church assemblies, are valid & operating.

After the Temple is destroyed one valid message remains, Paul's! No circumcision, no Temple sacrifices, No Mosaic law to adherence needed. This transition began in 51 AD at the Council of Jerusalem. Years after the epistle of James is written.

The RISEN Christ ordains (1 Tim 2:7) Paul. And sends him to minister to the Gentiles (Acts 26:17). Via the gospel of the GRACE of God (Acts 20:24)

Acts 26:
15 Saul said, Who art thou, Lord? And he said, I am Jesus whom thou persecutest.

16 Jesus said; rise, and stand upon thy feet: for I have appeared unto thee for this purpose, to make thee a minister and a witness both of these things which thou hast seen, and of those things in the which I will appear unto thee;

17 Delivering thee from the people, and from the Gentiles, unto whom now I send thee,
(MY NOTE: The RISEN Christ tells Paul. The GENTILES to whom, I NOW SEND YOU!)

18 (A) To open their eyes, (B) and to turn them from darkness to light, (C) and from the power of Satan unto God, (D) that they may receive forgiveness of sins, (E) and inheritance among them which are sanctified by faith that is in me.

(A) To open their eyes: Reveal/expose and introduce the Gentiles to God

(B) and to turn Gentiles from darkness to light: bring them out of an elaborate system of idolatry, false worship paganism to the knowledge and worship of the one true God.

(C) and from the power of Satan (Adamic nature) to the authority of God (Born anew from above (Spiritual Creation) bringing the soul from it's birth state of spiritual darkness. To light and liberty of/in Christ.

(D) that the Gentiles may receive forgiveness of sins: That ALL their sins may be PARDONED. Thru faith placed in the sin atoning sacrifice. Found in death, burial & resurrection of Jesus the Christ

(E) and inheritance among the Gentiles that are sanctified by FAITH that is in CHRIST

Finally see mystery defined below
Eph 3:
4 Whereby, when ye read, ye may understand my knowledge in the mystery of Christ)
(MY NOTE: This is one of many secrets God kept hidden)

5 Which in other ages was not made known unto the sons of men, as it is now revealed unto his holy apostles and prophets by the Spirit;
(MY NOTE: This mystery/secret in other ages was not made known unto the sons of men. IS NOW REVEALED!)

6 That the Gentiles should be fellowheirs, and of the same body, and partakers of his promise in Christ by the gospel:
(MY NOTE: That GENTILES would be FELLOW-HEIRS & of the same (ONE) body. And partakers of God's promised/Eternal life giving Holy Spirit)

Eph mystery is revealed about 25 years after James epistle is written

KJV Dictionary Definition: MYS'TERY, n. L. mysterium; Gr. a secret, hiding or shutting; to shut, to conceal.
1. A profound secret; something wholly unknown or something kept cautiously concealed, and therefore exciting curiosity or wonder.
av1611.com

People are free to believe & promote whatever they choose. Having said that imposing law verses onto today's Body of Christ is unscriptural.

Jn 1:17 For the law was given by Moses, but grace and truth came by Jesus Christ.

Rom 6:14 For sin shall not have dominion over you: for ye are not under the law, but under grace.

HTacianas · Sep 3, 2023

BrotherJJ said:
Rom 15:4 For whatsoever things were written aforetime were written for our learning, that we through patience and comfort of the scriptures might have hope.
(MY NOTE: ALL scripture is written for our LEARNING. ALL scripture isn't written for our DOCTRINE. Example: Are we required to be circumcised?)

Myles Coverdale; a Bible theologian/translator from the 1500’s. He wrote the Coverdale. Say's don't judge Scripture by what is spoken, or written only.

When dissecting any verse of scripture. Ask yourself, of whom, to whom, with what words, what time, where, to what intent, with what circumstances, considering what is written before and what follows any single verse context.

Abrahamic covenant was based on the UNCONDITIONAL promises from God & cut by Him alone (Gen 15:4-18). Today's New covenant is a partial fulfillment of the the Abrahamic covenant promises. Today's New covenant was cut & mediated by God/Christ alone. And requires FAITH ALONE to access it's blessings.

The Mosaic law covenant cut at Sinai, was an CONDITIONAL covenant cut by TWO parties, the people & the Lord (Ex 19:8). It required SELF-WORKS to access God's blessings (Deut 28:1-14)

The Mosaic law covenant required works in order to access God's blessings (Deut 28:1-14) Curses were levied for non-compliance (Deut 28:15-68)

James a teacher of the circumcision (Gal 2:9). He's writing to Israelites still observing Mosaic law, Temple worship, circumcision, daily sacrifices etc. Ja 1:1: Is written to the "twelve tribes" [of Israel] which are scattered abroad, greeting.

James was a Mosaic law adherent/Judaizer = Someone that believed in Jesus & believed that you must follow the Mosaic law. James sent men to spy on Peter & Barnabas to see if they were eating with Gentiles. (Gal 2:12).

The Acts 15 Council of Jerusalem takes place years after James writes his epistle. This is a key transitional inflection point!

At the Council of Jerusalem James, ALL the Apostles & elders debate & agree. Then send letters to the gentiles churches. Stating gentiles don't have to be circumcised or keep the law of Moses (Acts 15:24) to be SAVED.

The good news of salvation for BOTH gentile & Jew isn't found in James Epistle. The gentile/Jew Body of Christ good news by which we are saved 1 Cor 15:1-4: Is that Christ died for our sins, was buried & rose from the dead.

The gentile/jew good news has no connection to Mosaic law adherence or Temple worship. James writings have ZERO about the NT Body of Christ. You won't find Pauls (one body) Jew & gentile doctrine anywhere in James epistle.

The Body of Christ leadership has Pastors & Deacons (Tim 1 2, & Titus). Good luck finding Pastors & Deacons at the Temple when James is written.

There is a transitional period of time. From aprox 40 Ad until the Temple is destroyed in 70 AD. When BOTH Temple & Church assemblies, are valid & operating.

After the Temple is destroyed one valid message remains, Paul's! No circumcision, no Temple sacrifices, No Mosaic law to adherence needed. This transition began in 51 AD at the Council of Jerusalem. Years after the epistle of James is written.

The RISEN Christ ordained (1 Tim 2:7) Paul. And sends him to minister to the Gentiles (Acts 26:17)

Acts 26:
15 Saul said, Who art thou, Lord? And he said, I am Jesus whom thou persecutest.

16 Jesus said; rise, and stand upon thy feet: for I have appeared unto thee for this purpose, to make thee a minister and a witness both of these things which thou hast seen, and of those things in the which I will appear unto thee;

17 Delivering thee from the people, and from the Gentiles, unto whom now I send thee,
(MY NOTE: The RISEN Christ tells Paul. The Gentiles to whom I now send you.)

18 (A) To open their eyes, (B) and to turn them from darkness to light, (C) and from the power of Satan unto God, (D) that they may receive forgiveness of sins, (E) and inheritance among them which are sanctified by faith that is in me.

(A) To open their eyes: Reveal/expose and introduce the Gentiles to God

(B) and to turn Gentiles from darkness to light: bring then out of an elaborate system of idolatry, false worship paganism to the knowledge and worship of the one true God.

(C) and from the power of Satan (Adamic nature) to the authority of God (A New Spiritaul Creation) bringing the soul from it's birth state of spiritual darkness. To the light and liberty of/in Christ.

(D) that the Gentiles may receive forgiveness of sins: That all their sins may be pardoned. Thru faith placed in the sin atoning sacrifice. Found in death, burial & resurrection of Jesus the Christ

(E) and inheritance among the Gentiles that are sanctified by faith that is in me:

Finally see mystery defined below
Eph 3:
4 Whereby, when ye read, ye may understand my knowledge in the mystery of Christ)
(MY NOTE: This is one of many secrets God kept hidden)

5 Which in other ages was not made known unto the sons of men, as it is now revealed unto his holy apostles and prophets by the Spirit;
(MY NOTE: This mystery/secret in other ages was not made known unto the sons of men. IS NOW REVEALED!)

6 That the Gentiles should be fellowheirs, and of the same body, and partakers of his promise in Christ by the gospel:
(MY NOTE: That gentiles would be fellow heirs, and of the same body, and partakers of his promise/Eternal life giving Holy Spirit)

Eph mystery is revealed about 25 years after James epistle is written

KJV Dictionary Definition: MYS'TERY, n. L. mysterium; Gr. a secret, hiding or shutting; to shut, to conceal.
1. A profound secret; something wholly unknown or something kept cautiously concealed, and therefore exciting curiosity or wonder.
av1611.com

People are free to believe & promote whatever they choose. Having said that imposing law verses onto today's Body of Christ is unscriptural.

Jn 1:17 For the law was given by Moses, but grace and truth came by Jesus Christ.

Rom 6:14 For sin shall not have dominion over you: for ye are not under the law, but under grace.

What law verses would we be imposing onto today's Body of Christ?

Fervent · Sep 3, 2023

BrotherJJ said:
Myles Coverdale; a Bible theologian/translator from the 1500’s. He wrote the Coverdale. Say's don't judge Scripture by what is spoken, or written only.

Why does this kind of thing only come up when people are trying to delete verses from the Bible?

Clare73 · Sep 4, 2023

BrotherJJ said:
Rom 15:4 For whatsoever things were written aforetime were written for our learning, that we through patience and comfort of the scriptures might have hope.
(MY NOTE: ALL scripture is written for our LEARNING. ALL scripture isn't written for our DOCTRINE. Example related directly to the post: Are NT believers required to be circumcised & keep the OC law of Moses?)
Myles Coverdale; a Bible theologian/translator from the 1500’s. He wrote the Coverdale. Say's don't judge Scripture by what is spoken, or written only.
When dissecting any verse of scripture. Ask yourself, of whom, to whom, with what words, what time, where, to what intent, with what circumstances, considering what is written before and what follows any single verse context.

Abrahamic covenant was based on the UNCONDITIONAL promises from God & cut by Him alone (Gen 15:4-18). Today's New covenant is a partial fulfillment of Abrahamic covenant promises.

The unconditional covenant of Ge 15:4-18 was a promise of land, fulfilled under Solomon in its compete possession and occupation
(1 Kgs 4:21, 24-25).
The promise to be their God was the conditional covenant of Ge 17, conditioned on their consecration to God, symbolized by required circumcision.

BrotherJJ said:
Today's New covenant was cut & is mediated by God/Christ alone. And requires FAITH ALONE to access it's blessings.
The Mosaic law covenant cut at Sinai, was an CONDITIONAL covenant cut by TWO parties, the people & the Lord (Ex 19:8). It required SELF-WORKS to access God's blessings (Deut 28:1-14) Curses were levied for non-compliance (Deut 28:15-68)

The Mosaic Covenant was a temporary addition until Christ (Gal 3:19) to the Abrahamic unconditional covenant of Ge 17.

BrotherJJ said:
James a teacher of the circumcision (Gal 2:9). He's writing to Israelites still observing Mosaic law, Temple worship, circumcision, daily sacrifices etc. Ja 1:1: Is written to the "twelve tribes" [of Israel] which are scattered abroad.
James was a Mosaic law adherent/Judaizer = Someone that believed in Jesus & believed that you must believe Jesus was Messiah & follow Mosaic law in order to be saved. James sent men to spy on Peter & Barnabas to see if they were eating with Gentiles. (Gal 2:12).
The Acts 15 Council of Jerusalem takes place years after James writes his epistle. This is a key transitional inflection point!
At the Council of Jerusalem James, ALL the Apostles & elders debate & agree. Then send letters (Acts 15:23) to the gentiles churches. Stating gentiles don't have to be circumcised or keep the law of Moses (Acts 15:24) to be SAVED.
The good news of salvation for BOTH gentile & Jew isn't found in James Epistle. The gentile/Jew Body of Christ good news by which NT Body of Christ believers are saved: Is that Christ died for your sins, was buried & rose from the dead (1 Cor 15:1-4).
The gentile/Jew good news has no connection to circumcision or Mosaic law adherence. James writings have ZERO about the NT Body of Christ. You won't find Paul's (one body) Jew & gentile doctrine anywhere in James epistle.
The Body of Christ leadership has Pastors & Deacons (Tim 1 2, & Titus). Good luck finding Pastors & Deacons at the Temple when James is written.

There is a transitional period of time. From aprox 40 Ad until the Temple is destroyed in 70 AD. When BOTH Temple & Church assemblies, are valid & operating.

However, circumcision as necessary for salvation was never valid, no matter what James said.

BrotherJJ said:
After the Temple is destroyed one valid message remains, Paul's! No circumcision, no Temple sacrifices, No Mosaic law to adherence needed. This transition began in 51 AD at the Council of Jerusalem. Years after the epistle of James is written.

That's 20 years before the Temple was destroyed.

BrotherJJ said:
The RISEN Christ ordains (1 Tim 2:7) Paul. And sends him to minister to the Gentiles (Acts 26:17). Vis the gospel of the GRACE of God (Acts 20:24)

Paul ministered to the Gentiles in Ac 13, around 50 AD.

BrotherJJ said:
Acts 26:
15 Saul said, Who art thou, Lord? And he said, I am Jesus whom thou persecutest

Did you miss Ac 9, before 40 A.D.?

BrotherJJ said:
16 Jesus said; rise, and stand upon thy feet: for I have appeared unto thee for this purpose, to make thee a minister and a witness both of these things which thou hast seen, and of those things in the which I will appear unto thee;
17 Delivering thee from the people, and from the Gentiles, unto whom now I send thee,
(MY NOTE: The RISEN Christ tells Paul. The Gentiles to whom ""I SEND YOU"".)
18 (A) To open their eyes, (B) and to turn them from darkness to light, (C) and from the power of Satan unto God, (D) that they may receive forgiveness of sins, (E) and inheritance among them which are sanctified by faith that is in me.
(A) To open their eyes: Reveal/expose and introduce the Gentiles to God
(B) and to turn Gentiles from darkness to light: bring them out of an elaborate system of idolatry, false worship paganism to the knowledge and worship of the one true God.
(C) and from the power of Satan (Adamic nature) to the authority of God (A New Born from Above Spiritual Creation) bringing the soul from it's birth state of spiritual darkness. To light and liberty of/in Christ.
(D) that the Gentiles may receive forgiveness of sins: That ALL their sins may be PARDONED. Thru faith placed in the sin atoning sacrifice. Found in death, burial & resurrection of Jesus the Christ
(E) and inheritance among the Gentiles that are sanctified by FAITH that is in CHRIST

Finally see mystery defined below
Eph 3:
4 Whereby, when ye read, ye may understand my knowledge in the mystery of Christ)
(MY NOTE: This is one of many secrets God kept hidden)

Mystery simply means never before revealed, because atonement had to be accomplished first.

BrotherJJ said:
5 Which in other ages was not made known unto the sons of men, as it is now revealed unto his holy apostles and prophets by the Spirit;
(MY NOTE: This mystery/secret in other ages was not made known unto the sons of men. IS NOW REVEALED!)
6 That the Gentiles should be fellowheirs, and of the same body, and partakers of his promise in Christ by the gospel:
(MY NOTE: That GENTILES would be FELLOW-HEIRS & of the same (ONE) body. And partakers of God's promised/Eternal life giving Holy Spirit)
Eph mystery is revealed about 25 years after James epistle is written

The Eph mystery was put in writing about 25 years after the crucifixion.
However, the doctrine was preached from Jerusalem to Rome during that time frame in three missionary journeys.

BrotherJJ said:
KJV Dictionary Definition: MYS'TERY, n. L. mysterium; Gr. a secret, hiding or shutting; to shut, to conceal.
1. A profound secret; something wholly unknown or something kept cautiously concealed, and therefore exciting curiosity or wonder.
av1611.com
People are free to believe & promote whatever they choose. Having said that imposing law verses onto today's Body of Christ is unscriptural.
Jn 1:17 For the law was given by Moses, but grace and truth came by Jesus Christ.
Rom 6:14 For sin shall not have dominion over you: for ye are not under the law, but under grace.

com7fy8 · Sep 4, 2023

BrotherJJ said:
Rom 15:4 For whatsoever things were written aforetime were written for our learning, that we through patience and comfort of the scriptures might have hope.
(MY NOTE: ALL scripture is written for our LEARNING. ALL scripture isn't written for our DOCTRINE.

Jesus says, "learn from Me, for I am gentle and lowly in heart, and you will find rest for your souls." (in Matthew 11:29)

Jesus can have us learn what He has for us, using any scripture.

I personally am finding that God is able to use any scripture to help me learn how to live in submission to God in His peace and learn how to love.

And I keep discovering how our Canon writers Paul and James agree in doctrine about spiritual reality and in the love meaning of their writings.

But yes there are ones who claim Paul and James do not agree. But I keep finding how they agree, plus how each can help to improve our understanding of the other, for finding out how to become conformed to the image of Jesus and how to walk in His love for any and all people.

com7fy8 · Sep 4, 2023

For example, Paul says we need "faith working through love," in Galatians 5:6. So, it is clear that true faith works . . . does works of God's love.

Works, then, are not a condition of salvation, but an ongoing product of faith which does works of God's love.

And James is clear how "faith without works is dead" (in James 2:20). And James in chapter two gives three examples of works of faith which are works of love > helping a person who has no food and clothing, Abraham putting God first by offering up Isaac, and Rahab helping God's servants.

This is an example of how both writers agree with one another, plus each one's message can be used as commentary on the other.

com7fy8 · Sep 4, 2023

And in the letter of James we have a description of "the wisdom that is from above" > "first pure, then peaceable, gentle, willing to yield, full of mercy and good fruits, without partiality and without hypocrisy." (in James 3:17)

I would say this is a description of how Jesus is. And Paul says Jesus is "the wisdom of God", in 1 Corinthians 1:24.

So, I would say James is telling us how we need to become in our character so we are conformed to the image of Jesus. And this certainly is not for Jews only, then. Paul, also, says God wants to conform us to the image of Jesus > Romans 8:29

Plus, James' description of wisdom is a match with Paul's description of love, in 1 Corinthians 13. The descriptions match each other, plus each gives things which can supplement the other . . . being commentary on each other.

Together, they help give how the character of Jesus is, and we can feed on these in order to become conformed to the image of Christ and love the way God has us loving any and all people, feeding people with our example of the love meaning of what Paul and James say about Heaven's love and wisdom.

BrotherJJ · Sep 5, 2023

com7fy8 said:
For example, Paul says we need "faith working through love," in Galatians 5:6. So, it is clear that true faith works . . . does works of God's love.

Works, then, are not a condition of salvation, but an ongoing product of faith which does works of God's love.

And James is clear how "faith without works is dead" (in James 2:20). And James in chapter two gives three examples of works of faith which are works of love > helping a person who has no food and clothing, Abraham putting God first by offering up Isaac, and Rahab helping God's servants.

This is an example of how both writers agree with one another, plus each one's message can be used as commentary on the other.

The OP doesn't claim James epistle isn't God breathed scripture.

The OP points out there are 2 different covenant assembly/dispensational applications.

1st assembly: The 12 Tribes/Jews Only. James epistle is written to Mosaic law adherents, that believed Jesus was Messiah.

2nd, assembly: The Body of Christ (not found in James) believers that weren't/AREN'T under Mosaic law mandates.

One assembly (Jews only) required faith + works to access God's blessings. The other assembly (Jew of Gentile) requires faith alone to access God's blessings.

I would agree we can find writings where James & Paul harmonize. We can also find writings where they don't:

Rom 3:28 Therefore we conclude that a ""man is JUSTIFIED by FAITH"" ""without the deeds of the law"".

Gal 3:8 And the scripture, foreseeing that ""God would JUSTIFY the heathen through FAITH"", preached before the gospel unto Abraham, saying, In thee shall all nations be blessed.

Gal 2:16 Knowing that a ""MAN is NOT JUSTIFIED"" ""by the works of the law"", ""but by the FAITH of Jesus Christ"", even ""we have believed in Jesus Christ, that we might be JUSTIFIED by the FAITH of Christ"", and ""not by the works of the law"": for ""by the works of the law"" shall ""no flesh be justified"".

Rom 4:
1 What shall we say then that Abraham our father, as pertaining to the flesh, hath found?

2 For if Abraham were justified by works, he hath whereof to glory; but not before God.

3 For what saith the scripture? Abraham believed God, and it was counted unto him for righteousness.

9 Cometh this blessedness then upon the circumcision only, or upon the uncircumcision also? for we say that faith was reckoned to Abraham for righteousness.

13 For the promise, that he should be the heir of the world, was not to Abraham, or to his seed, through the law, but through the righteousness of faith.

16 Therefore it is of faith, that it might be by grace; to the end the promise might be sure to all the seed; not to that only which is of the law, but to that also which is of the faith of Abraham; who is the father of us all,

Gal 3:
26 For ye are all the children of God by faith in Christ Jesus.

29 And if ye be Christ's, then are ye Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise.

Eph 2:
8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:
(MY NOTE: By God's unearned favor/GRACE thru FAITH placed in Jesus sin atoning work salvation is accessed)

9 Not of works, lest any man should boast.
(MY NOTE: NO! Self-works allowed!)

Posted in the OP:
Rom 15:4 For whatsoever things were written aforetime were written for our learning, that we through patience and comfort of the scriptures might have hope.
(MY NOTE: ALL scripture is written for our LEARNING. ALL scripture isn't written for our DOCTRINE. Example related directly to the post: Are NT believers required to be circumcised & keep the OC law of Moses?)

People are free to believe & promote whatever they choose. Having said that, imposing self-works onto today's Body of Christ in order to receive God's blessing/salvation is unscriptural.

Soyeong · Sep 5, 2023

BrotherJJ said:
Rom 15:4 For whatsoever things were written aforetime were written for our learning, that we through patience and comfort of the scriptures might have hope.
(MY NOTE: ALL scripture is written for our LEARNING. ALL scripture isn't written for our DOCTRINE. Example related directly to the post: Are NT believers required to be circumcised & keep the OC law of Moses?)

There is no point in learning something if it has affect on the way that we live our lives. In Romans 15:18-19, Paul's Gospel fulfilled the Gospel by bringing Gentiles to obedience to it in word and in deed.

BrotherJJ said:
Myles Coverdale; a Bible theologian/translator from the 1500’s. He wrote the Coverdale. Say's don't judge Scripture by what is spoken, or written only.

When dissecting any verse of scripture. Ask yourself, of whom, to whom, with what words, what time, where, to what intent, with what circumstances, considering what is written before and what follows any single verse context.

Abrahamic covenant was based on the UNCONDITIONAL promises from God & cut by Him alone (Gen 15:4-18). Today's New covenant is a partial fulfillment of Abrahamic covenant promises. Today's New covenant was cut & is mediated by God/Christ alone

In Genesis 18:19, Genesis 26:4-5, and Deuteronomy 30:16, the promise was made to Abraham and brought about because he walked in God's way in obedience to His law, he taught his children and those of his household to do that, and because they did that.

BrotherJJ said:
. And requires FAITH ALONE to access it's blessings.

In Proverbs 3:5-7, we have a choice between leaning on our own understanding of right and wrong by doing what is right in our own eyes or trusting in God with all of our heart to correctly divide between right and wrong through obeying what He has instructed in all of our ways an he will make our way straight, and this is what it means to have faith alone.

BrotherJJ said:
The Mosaic law covenant cut at Sinai, was an CONDITIONAL covenant cut by TWO parties, the people & the Lord (Ex 19:8). It required SELF-WORKS to access God's blessings (Deut 28:1-14) Curses were levied for non-compliance (Deut 28:15-68)

Self-worlls do not involve relying on anyone else, so it is contradictory to think that it is self works to trust God with all of our heart to guide us in how to rightly live. God is trustworthy, therefore His law is also trustworthy (Psalms 19:7), so obediently trusting in what God has instructed is the way to trust in God and it is contradictory to think that we should trust in God, but not in what He has instructed.

BrotherJJ said:
James a teacher of the circumcision (Gal 2:9). He's writing to Israelites still observing Mosaic law, Temple worship, circumcision, daily sacrifices etc. Ja 1:1: Is written to the "twelve tribes" [of Israel] which are scattered abroad.

James was a Mosaic law adherent/Judaizer = Someone that believed in Jesus & believed that you must believe Jesus was Messiah & follow Mosaic law in order to be saved. James sent men to spy on Peter & Barnabas to see if they were eating with Gentiles. (Gal 2:12).

Our salvation is from sin (Matthew 1:21) and and it is by the Mosaic Law that we have knowledge of sin (Romans 3:20), so while we do not earn our salvation as the result of obeying it, living in obedience to it through faith in Jesus is nevertheless intrinsically part of the concept of him saving us from not living in obedience to it.

BrotherJJ said:
The Acts 15 Council of Jerusalem takes place years after James writes his epistle. This is a key transitional inflection point!

At the Council of Jerusalem James, ALL the Apostles & elders debate & agree. Then send letters (Acts 15:23) to the gentiles churches. Stating gentiles don't have to be circumcised or keep the law of Moses (Acts 15:24) to be SAVED.

God's law was never given as a way of becoming saved, but that doesn't mean that we aren't required to obey it for the purposes for which it was given. The Jerusalem Council did not have the authority to countermand God, so they should not be interpreted as ruling against obeying what He has commanded.

BrotherJJ said:
The good news of salvation for BOTH gentile & Jew isn't found in James Epistle. The gentile/Jew Body of Christ good news by which NT Body of Christ believers are saved: Is that Christ died for your sins, was buried & rose from the dead (1 Cor 15:1-4).

The gentile/Jew good news has no connection to circumcision or Mosaic law adherence. James writings have ZERO about the NT Body of Christ. You won't find Paul's (one body) Jew & gentile doctrine anywhere in James epistle.

In Titus 2:14, Jesus gave himself to redeem us from all lawlessness and to purify for himself a people of his own possession who are zealous for doing good works, so the way to believe in what Jesus accomplished in 1 Corinthians 15:1-4 is by becoming zealous for doing good works in obedience to the Mosaic Law (Acts 21:20).

BrotherJJ said:
The Body of Christ leadership has Pastors & Deacons (Tim 1 2, & Titus). Good luck finding Pastors & Deacons at the Temple when James is written.

There is a transitional period of time. From aprox 40 Ad until the Temple is destroyed in 70 AD. When BOTH Temple & Church assemblies, are valid & operating.

After the Temple is destroyed one valid message remains, Paul's! No circumcision, no Temple sacrifices, No Mosaic law to adherence needed. This transition began in 51 AD at the Council of Jerusalem. Years after the epistle of James is written.

Paul was a servant of God who did not have the authority to countermand Him, so he should not be interpreted as doing that and should not be followed instead of God even if that was what he was trying to do.

BrotherJJ said:
The RISEN Christ ordains (1 Tim 2:7) Paul. And sends him to minister to the Gentiles (Acts 26:17). Vis the gospel of the GRACE of God (Acts 20:24)

Acts 26:
15 Saul said, Who art thou, Lord? And he said, I am Jesus whom thou persecutest.

16 Jesus said; rise, and stand upon thy feet: for I have appeared unto thee for this purpose, to make thee a minister and a witness both of these things which thou hast seen, and of those things in the which I will appear unto thee;

17 Delivering thee from the people, and from the Gentiles, unto whom now I send thee,
(MY NOTE: The RISEN Christ tells Paul. The Gentiles to whom ""I SEND YOU"".)

18 (A) To open their eyes, (B) and to turn them from darkness to light, (C) and from the power of Satan unto God, (D) that they may receive forgiveness of sins, (E) and inheritance among them which are sanctified by faith that is in me.

(A) To open their eyes: Reveal/expose and introduce the Gentiles to God

The way to introduce God to Gentiles is through what He has commanded. For example, by doing doing good works we are testifying to Gentiles about the goodness of our God, which is why our good works bring glory to Him (Matthew 5:16). If someone introduced their God as commanding His people to commit adultery, then they would be introducing a very different sort of God than the one who commanded against adultery.

BrotherJJ said:
(B) and to turn Gentiles from darkness to light: bring them out of an elaborate system of idolatry, false worship paganism to the knowledge and worship of the one true God.

God's law is His instructions for how to worship Him through testifying about who He is.

BrotherJJ said:
(C) and from the power of Satan (Adamic nature) to the authority of God (A New Born from Above Spiritual Creation) bringing the soul from it's birth state of spiritual darkness. To light and liberty of/in Christ.

(D) that the Gentiles may receive forgiveness of sins: That ALL their sins may be PARDONED. Thru faith placed in the sin atoning sacrifice. Found in death, burial & resurrection of Jesus the Christ

(E) and inheritance among the Gentiles that are sanctified by FAITH that is in CHRIST

Finally see mystery defined below
Eph 3:
4 Whereby, when ye read, ye may understand my knowledge in the mystery of Christ)
(MY NOTE: This is one of many secrets God kept hidden)

5 Which in other ages was not made known unto the sons of men, as it is now revealed unto his holy apostles and prophets by the Spirit;
(MY NOTE: This mystery/secret in other ages was not made known unto the sons of men. IS NOW REVEALED!)

6 That the Gentiles should be fellowheirs, and of the same body, and partakers of his promise in Christ by the gospel:
(MY NOTE: That GENTILES would be FELLOW-HEIRS & of the same (ONE) body. And partakers of God's promised/Eternal life giving Holy Spirit)

Eph mystery is revealed about 25 years after James epistle is written

There is no point win wanting to be heirs of the promise while rejecting its connection to living in obedience to God's law. In 1 John 2:6, those who are in Christ are obligated to wall in the same way he walked, so those who refuse to walk in obedience to the Mosaic Law should not consider themselves to be in Christ and should not consider verses that speak about those who are in Christ to be speaking about them.

BrotherJJ said:
KJV Dictionary Definition: MYS'TERY, n. L. mysterium; Gr. a secret, hiding or shutting; to shut, to conceal.
1. A profound secret; something wholly unknown or something kept cautiously concealed, and therefore exciting curiosity or wonder.
av1611.com

The mystery refers to the sod level of interpretation.

BrotherJJ said:
People are free to believe & promote whatever they choose. Having said that imposing law verses onto today's Body of Christ is unscriptural.

It should not make sense to you to think that it is unscriptural that followers of God should follow what God has commanded in accordance with the example that Christ set for us to follow.

BrotherJJ said:
Jn 1:17 For the law was given by Moses, but grace and truth came by Jesus Christ.

In John 1:16, is says grace upon grace, so it is speaking about one example of grace being added upon another, and there is no "but" in verse 17, so it is not making a contrast, but rather it is using two parallel statements to express the same thought. In Psalms 119:29, he wanted God to be gracious to him by teaching him to obey the Mosaic Law, and in Psalms 119:142, the Mosaic Law is truth, so grace and truth came through Jesus because he spent his ministry teaching his followers to obey it by word and by example.

BrotherJJ said:
Rom 6:14 For sin shall not have dominion over you: for ye are not under the law, but under grace.

That verse describes the law that we are not under as being a law where sin had dominion over us, which does not describe the Mosaic Law, which is a law where holiness, righteousness, and goodness have dominion over us (Romans 7:12), but rather it is the law of sin where sin had dominion over us. In Romans 6:15, being under grace does not mean that we are permitted to sin, and 1 John 3:4, sin is the transgression of the Mosaic Law, so we are still under it and are obligated to obey it. In Psalms 119:29, God graciously teaching us to obey the Mosaic Law is what it means to be under grace. Moreover, everyone else in Romans 6 speaks in favor of obedience to the Mosaic Law and against sin.

OldAbramBrown · Sep 6, 2023

Soyeong said:
The way to introduce God to Gentiles is through what He has commanded. For example, by doing good works we are testifying to Gentiles about the goodness of our God, which is why our good works bring glory to Him (Matthew 5:16). If someone introduced their God as commanding His people to commit adultery, then they would be introducing a very different sort of God than the one who commanded against adultery.

I agree with those who say there is agreement between Paul and James. To allow someone something they need is to accept their exercise of their spiritual gifts unvetoed (which is normally not during assembly times - it may be through family relating and friendship) (as well as material needs literally of course).

For spiritual leaders to look down their noses at believers they don't think "of their class", is spiritual adultery.

Doesn't the OT say "collect enough for him who has none". One day even the wise virgins didn't have enough for their peers (because those who lack are those who have also).

BrotherJJ · Sep 6, 2023

I see once again the law promoters have descended. Attempting to put new covenant believers under Mosaic laws. Ex this, Deut that (all written to Israel ONLY) Citing Acts 21:20 out of context of course. That verse and what (context) follows. Completely support the OP.

The OP points out James is written to believing Mosaic law adherent JEWS!

Acts 20:21 takes place after the Council of Jerusalem. Where letters were written by Church leadership under the guidance of God's Holy Spirt. Making it clear Gentiles believers didn't need to be circumcised or keep the law of Moses (Acts 15:24).

Context following Acts 21:20

Acts 21:
24 take these men and purify yourself along with them, and pay their expenses [for the temple offerings] so that they may shave their heads. Then everyone will know that there is nothing to the things they have been told about you, but that you yourself also follow and keep the Law.
(MY NOTE: Because Paul has been with gentiles (deemed unclean by Mosaic law) Paul must purify (Jewish rituals) before entering the Temple. Any NT believers have to do this to get into Church today?)

25 “But with regard to the Gentiles who have believed [in Christ], we have sent them a letter with our decision that they should abstain from meat sacrificed to idols and from [consuming] blood and from [the meat of] what has been strangled and from sexual immorality.”
(MY NOTE: This verse reiterates Gentiles believers didn't need to be circumcised or keep the law of Moses (Acts 15:24).

26 Then Paul took the [four] men, and the next day he purified himself along with them [by submitting to the ritual]. He went into the temple to give notice of [the time] when the days of purification [ending each vow] would be fulfilled and the usual offering could be presented on behalf of each one.
(MY NOTE: Paul purifies)

Paul Seized in the Temple
27 When the seven days [required to complete the ritual] were almost over, [some] Jews from [the province of] Asia [Minor], caught sight of him in the temple, and began to stir up the crowd, and they seized him,
(MY NOTE: Find here these Acts 21:20 thousands of Christ believing Jews, ALL enthusiastic supporters of the Law of Moses)

28 shouting, “Men of Israel, help us! This is the man who teaches all men everywhere against our people and the Law and this place. And besides, he has brought Greeks into the temple and has defiled this holy place.”
(MY NOTE: For those that place gentiles a John's Baptism's or on the Temple Mt Acts 2 Pentecost, think again)

29 For they had previously seen Trophimus the Ephesian in the city with Paul, and they assumed that he had brought the man into the temple [beyond the court of the Gentiles].
(MY NOTE: The gentile court at the Temple. Warnings were posted in Latin & Greek. Any foreign uncircumcised person caught crossing into another courtyard was punishable by DEATH!)

30 Then the whole city was provoked and confused, and the people rushed together. They seized Paul and dragged him out of the temple, and immediately the gates were closed.
(MY NOTE: These Acts 21:20 enthusiastic Christ believing supporters of the Law of Moses. Drag Paul out of the temple!)

31 Now while they were trying to kill him, word came to the commander of the [Roman] garrison that all Jerusalem was in a state of upheaval.
(MY NOTE: These are Mosaic law adherents like James is writing to. They want to KILL Paul because they disagree with his message. That the RISEN Lord Jesus gave him)

32 So he immediately took soldiers and centurions and ran down among them. When the people saw the commander and the soldiers, they stopped beating Paul.

33 Then the commander came up and arrested Paul, and ordered that he be bound with two chains. Then he asked who he was and what he had done.

34 But some in the crowd were shouting one thing and others something else; and since he could not determine the facts because of the uproar, he ordered that Paul be taken to the barracks [in the tower of Antonia].

35 When Paul got to the steps, he was carried by the soldiers because of the violence of the mob;

36 for the majority of the people kept following them, shouting, “Away with him! [Kill him!]”
(MY NOTE: These enthusiastic Christ believing Mosaic law adherents would have KILLED Paul, just like they did Stephen if the Roman soldiers hadn't intervened)

James & Paul are written to completely different audiences.

Jesus came to fulfill the law. Anyone that say's He didn't, is claiming Jesus/God (Tit 2:13, Rom 9:5) failed at His mission.

When He fulfilled the law He retired the old Mosaic law covenant (Matt 27:51, Heb 8:6,13, 9:15).

Time to move onto the NEW BETTER COVENANT HE MEDIATES.

Eph 2:
8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:
(MY NOTE: By God's unearned favor/GRACE thru FAITH placed in Jesus sin atoning work salvation is accessed)

9 Not of works, lest any man should boast.
(MY NOTE: NO! Self-works allowed!)

Ps 75:4 (A & C) “I said to the arrogant, ‘Do not boast;’ ‘Do not lift up the horn [of self-glorification].

John 8:36 When the Son make's you free, you're free indeed.

Soyeong · Sep 6, 2023

BrotherJJ said:
I see once again the law promoters have descended. Attempting to put new covenant believers under Mosaic laws. Ex this, Deut that (all written to Israel ONLY)

In Jeremiah 31:31-33, it says that the New Covenant is only made with the house of Judah and the house of Israel and that it involves God putting the Mosaic Law in our minds and writing it on our hearts.

BrotherJJ said:
Citing Acts 21:20 out of context of course. That verse and what (context) follows. Completely support the OP.

Acts 21:20 is an example of Jews correctly believing in what Jesus accomplished in Titus 2:14, so I did not take that out of context.

BrotherJJ said:
The OP points out James is written to believing Mosaic law adherent JEWS!

Acts 20:21 takes place after the Council of Jerusalem. Where letters were written by Church leadership under the guidance of God's Holy Spirt. Making it clear Gentiles believers didn't need to be circumcised or keep the law of Moses (Acts 15:24).

Jesus set a sinless example for how to follow of how to walk in obedience to the Mosaic Law (1 Peter 2:21-22) and Acts 15 should not be interpreted ruling that Gentiles shouldn't follow Christ. The Jerusalem Council did not have the authority to countermand God, so they should not be interpreted as trying to do that, and even if that is what they were doing, then we should follow God rather than them because the bottom line is that we must obey God rather than man.

BrotherJJ said:
Context following Acts 21:20

Acts 21:
24 take these men and purify yourself along with them, and pay their expenses [for the temple offerings] so that they may shave their heads. Then everyone will know that there is nothing to the things they have been told about you, but that you yourself also follow and keep the Law.
(MY NOTE: Because Paul has been with gentiles (deemed unclean by Mosaic law) Paul must purify (Jewish rituals) before entering the Temple. Any NT believers have to do this to get into Church today?)

A church building is not the Temple.

BrotherJJ said:
25 “But with regard to the Gentiles who have believed [in Christ], we have sent them a letter with our decision that they should abstain from meat sacrificed to idols and from [consuming] blood and from [the meat of] what has been strangled and from sexual immorality.”
(MY NOTE: This verse reiterates Gentiles believers didn't need to be circumcised or keep the law of Moses (Acts 15:24).

Either Acts 15:19-21 contains an exhaustive list of everything that would ever be required of a mature Gentile believe or it does not, so it is contradictory to treat is as being a exhaustive list to limit which laws Gentiles should follow while also treating it as being a non-exhaustive list by saying that there are other commandments that Gentiles should obviously follow, such as the greatest two commandments. Moreover, Jesus said in Matthew 22:36-40, that all of the other commandments hang on the greatest two, which means that they are all connected, so if you think that Gentiles should obey the greatest two commandments, then you should also think that Gentiles should obey the commandments than hang on them.

BrotherJJ said:
26 Then Paul took the [four] men, and the next day he purified himself along with them [by submitting to the ritual]. He went into the temple to give notice of [the time] when the days of purification [ending each vow] would be fulfilled and the usual offering could be presented on behalf of each one.
(MY NOTE: Paul purifies)

Paul Seized in the Temple
27 When the seven days [required to complete the ritual] were almost over, [some] Jews from [the province of] Asia [Minor], caught sight of him in the temple, and began to stir up the crowd, and they seized him,
(MY NOTE: Find here these Acts 21:20 thousands of Christ believing Jews, ALL enthusiastic supporters of the Law of Moses)

28 shouting, “Men of Israel, help us! This is the man who teaches all men everywhere against our people and the Law and this place. And besides, he has brought Greeks into the temple and has defiled this holy place.”
(MY NOTE: For those that place gentiles a John's Baptism's or on the Temple Mt Acts 2 Pentecost, think again)

29 For they had previously seen Trophimus the Ephesian in the city with Paul, and they assumed that he had brought the man into the temple [beyond the court of the Gentiles].
(MY NOTE: The gentile court at the Temple. Warnings were posted in Latin & Greek. Any foreign uncircumcised person caught crossing into another courtyard was punishable by DEATH!)

30 Then the whole city was provoked and confused, and the people rushed together. They seized Paul and dragged him out of the temple, and immediately the gates were closed.
(MY NOTE: These Acts 21:20 enthusiastic Christ believing supporters of the Law of Moses. Drag Paul out of the temple!)

31 Now while they were trying to kill him, word came to the commander of the [Roman] garrison that all Jerusalem was in a state of upheaval.
(MY NOTE: These are Mosaic law adherents like James is writing to. They want to KILL Paul because they disagree with his message. That the RISEN Lord Jesus gave him)

32 So he immediately took soldiers and centurions and ran down among them. When the people saw the commander and the soldiers, they stopped beating Paul.

33 Then the commander came up and arrested Paul, and ordered that he be bound with two chains. Then he asked who he was and what he had done.

34 But some in the crowd were shouting one thing and others something else; and since he could not determine the facts because of the uproar, he ordered that Paul be taken to the barracks [in the tower of Antonia].

35 When Paul got to the steps, he was carried by the soldiers because of the violence of the mob;

36 for the majority of the people kept following them, shouting, “Away with him! [Kill him!]”
(MY NOTE: These enthusiastic Christ believing Mosaic law adherents would have KILLED Paul, just like they did Stephen if the Roman soldiers hadn't intervened)

Acts 6:12-14 And they stirred up the people and the elders and the scribes, and they came upon him and seized him and brought him before the council, 13 and they set up false witnesses who said, “This man never ceases to speak words against this holy place and the law, 14 for we have heard him say that this Jesus of Nazareth will destroy this place and will change the customs that Moses delivered to us.”

Note that those words are in the mouths of false witnesses.

BrotherJJ said:
James & Paul are written to completely different audiences.

Jesus came to fulfill the law. Anyone that say's He didn't, is claiming Jesus/God (Tit 2:13, Rom 9:5) failed at His mission.

To fulfill the law means "to cause God's will (as made known in His law) to be obeyed as it should be" (NAS Greek Lexicon: pleroo). Jesus fulfill the Modish Law by spending his ministry training his followers how correctly to obey it by word and by example.

BrotherJJ said:
When He fulfilled the law He retired the old Mosaic law covenant (Matt 27:51, Heb 8:6,13, 9:15).

Time to move onto the NEW BETTER COVENANT HE MEDIATES.

The New Covenant still involves following the Mosaic Law (Hebrews 8:10).

BrotherJJ said:
Eph 2:
8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:
(MY NOTE: By God's unearned favor/GRACE thru FAITH placed in Jesus sin atoning work salvation is accessed)

9 Not of works, lest any man should boast.
(MY NOTE: NO! Self-works allowed!)

In Ephesians 2:10, we have been made new creations in Christ to do good works, so while we do not earn our salvation as the result of our obedience to it, doing good works in obedience to it is nevertheless intrinsically part of our salvation.

BrotherJJ said:
Ps 75:4 (A & C) “I said to the arrogant, ‘Do not boast;’ ‘Do not lift up the horn [of self-glorification].

God's law was never given so that we could have something to boast in ourselves about.

BrotherJJ said:
John 8:36 When the Son make's you free, you're free indeed.

In Psalms 119:142, the Mosaic Law is truth, and in John 8:31-36, it is sin in transgression of the Mosaic Law while it is the truth that sets us free, so your posts in this thread are opposed to following truth and are leading people into bondage.

BrotherJJ · Sep 6, 2023

More of the same OT Jeremiah verses written to whom? > The house of Judah & the house of Israel! Not gentiles! More out of context misrepresentations. Of course the Acts 15 cited stops short of the FACTS!

Acts 15:24 Forasmuch as we have heard, that certain which went out from us have troubled you with words, subverting your souls, saying, Ye must be circumcised, and keep the law: to whom we gave no such commandment:
(MY NOTE: Mosaic Law adherents made false claims that gentiles needed to get circumcised & keep Mosaic law. The verse is CLEAR: THERE WAS NEVER ANY SUCH COMMANDMENT GIVEN TO THEM!)

Mosaic law Israel ONLY!

Ex 19:
3 God, spoke to Moses saying, Thus shalt thou "say to the house of Jacob" "and tell the children of Israel";
(MY NOTE: God tells Moses, say to: The house of Jacob/children of Israel! Gentiles had/have NO PART in this law covenant)

7 And Moses came and called for the elders of the people, and laid before their faces all these words which the Lord commanded him.
(MY NOTE: The Law of Moses was given to: The house of Jacob/children of Israel ONLY (reread vs 3)

8 And all the people answered together, and said, All that the Lord hath spoken we will do. And Moses returned the words of the people unto the Lord.
(MY NOTE: When Moses gives the law : To the house of Jacob/children of Israel ONLY: They ALL AGREED, to the words the Lord had spoken)

Gentiles never were & aren't now, under Mosaic law

Col 2:
13 And you, being dead in your sins and the uncircumcision of your flesh, hath he quickened together with him, having forgiven you all trespasses;
(MY NOTE: Dead in sin & uncircumcised. Yet, Quickened/made spiritually alive, born from above by FAITH having ALL sins FORGIVEN!)

14 Blotting out the handwriting of ordinances that was against us, which was contrary to us, and took it out of the way, nailing it to his cross;
(MY NOTE: The handwriting of ordinances = Is the law: "Do this and thou shalt live", "the soul that sinneth, shall die". Sin & its judgment is the failure to do our part that "stands against us". A penalty & payment is required for the failure.

Written to believers (Col 1:2). Verse 14 states Christ's once for all time, sin atoning God blood payment: Blotted out the handwriting of ordinances that was against us [blotted out, took away the legal penalties/judgments contained/required/levied for sin & nailed to His cross! < Past Tense/DONE DEAL!

By paying sins required price/DEATH & blotting out the handwriting of ordinances. The believers burden to pay sin debt owed has been lifted/removed/PAID in full. Solely on the merit of Jesus one time sin payment. Every believer receives a full sin pardon. Jesus took all their judgment bought & paid for every sin they owed, death included.

Guojing · Sep 6, 2023

BrotherJJ said:
The OP doesn't claim James epistle isn't God breathed scripture.

The OP points out there are 2 different covenant assemblies/dispensational applications.

1st, written to one assembly: The 12 Tribes/Jews Only. When James epistle is written were Mosaic law adherents.

2nd, written to the of assembly: The Body of Christ (not found in James) that weren't/AREN'T under Mosaic law mandates.

One assembly (Jews only) required faith + works to access God's blessings. The other assembly (Jew of Gentile) requires faith alone to access God's blessings.

Generally, Christians are taught that there is only one gospel message taught after the cross.

Since they are also taught that that one gospel is salvation by faith alone in Christ death burial resurrection without works, they then read everything post cross as preaching that.

Thus, they do all kinds of spiritualizing post cross scripture, to make James and Paul say the same thing.

OldAbramBrown · Sep 7, 2023

Paul and James wrote to overlapping audiences: wholly synagogue attenders or partly synagogue attenders. Jesus constantly reminded those around Him (mostly Hebrews) that they also had the same chance to be grafted in as the gentiles: as did the prophets.

BrotherJJ · Sep 8, 2023

OldAbramBrown said:
Paul and James wrote to overlapping audiences: wholly synagogue attenders or partly synagogue attenders. Jesus constantly reminded those around Him (mostly Hebrews) that they also had the same chance to be grafted in as the gentiles: as did the prophets.

Any scriptures that support Jesus making statements about grafting in gentiles would be appreciated.

Clare73 · Sep 9, 2023

BrotherJJ said:
Any scriptures that support Jesus making statements about grafting in gentiles would be appreciated.

That's one of the mysteries (secrets of the kingdom, not before revealed) given to Paul (Eph 3:3-6).

BrotherJJ · Sep 9, 2023

Clare73 said:
That's one of the mysteries (secrets of the kingdom, not before revealed) given to Paul (Eph 3:3-6).

Agreed I shared that mystery in post #1. My question was directed to post #15.

Der Alte · Sep 9, 2023

BrotherJJ said:
Any scriptures that support Jesus making statements about grafting in gentiles would be appreciated.

Rom 11:13 For I speak to you Gentiles, inasmuch as I am the apostle of the Gentiles, I magnify mine office: ...
Rom 11:17 And if some of the branches be broken off, and thou, [gentiles vs. 13] being a wild olive tree, wert graffed in among them, and with them partakest of the root and fatness of the olive tree;
Rom 11:19 Thou wilt say then, The branches were broken off, that I might be graffed in.
Rom 11:23 And they also, if they abide not still in unbelief, shall be graffed in: for God is able to graff them in again.
Rom 11:24 For if thou wert cut out of the olive tree which is wild by nature, and wert graffed contrary to nature into a good olive tree: how much more shall these, which be the natural branches, be graffed into their own olive tree?

Clare73 · Sep 9, 2023

BrotherJJ said:
Agreed I shared that mystery in post #1. My question was directed to post #15.

Jesus doesn't use the word "graft" in regard to the kingdom that is here now (Mt 12:28, Lk 11:20) being taken away from the Jews and given to another people (Mt 21:43); i.e., the Gentiles. But that is what Paul is referring to in Ro 11:16-23.

The misunderstood Book of James & parsing the covenants.

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This is me about 1 yr. old. when FDR was president

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