John 14:1-3 "I will com again" - post-trib, pre-mill, full Rapture, visible

keras · Jul 1, 2021

Spiritual Jew said:
That's not common sense. That's doctrinal bias on your part. You are only ASSUMING that He had not already been sitting on His throne.

Sure; Jesus is in heaven and will be on a Throne.
What defies common sense is the idea that He rules the earth from there.

Jesus HAS been given the authority to rule on earth, but until He Returns; Satan does. This is proved by how Satan offered the kingdoms of the world to Jesus, if He would bow and give homage to him. Matthew 4:8-10

The Amil belief; that we are in the Millennium now, is a crock and plainly wrong to any person with a modicum of common sense.

Marilyn C · Jul 2, 2021

Spiritual Jew said:
What do you mean? It doesn't say that. It only indicates that people won't realize that, according to Jesus, they were feeding Him when they fed the hungry and giving Him something to drink when giving a drink to the thirsty and so on. It does not say they are not aware that they are about to inherit "eternal life" (Matt 25:46) in the kingdom prepared for us from the foundation of the world.

Hi SJ,

So why did the Lord speak of these `sheep,` while on earth, when He tells us after He ascended that His Body was a revelation hidden before He revealed it to the Apostle Paul?

It seems that what Jesus was saying would not make sense to His audience, the Jews if He was referring to the Body of Christ. A group that was not even in existence in those days.

Marilyn.

Marilyn C · Jul 2, 2021

Spiritual Jew said:
He is already on His own throne and on the Father's throne. You are taking this too literally as if it's talking about literal, physical thrones. No, it's talking about His status of being raised to the right hand of the Father in heaven "Far above all principality, and power, and might, and dominion, and every name that is named" (Eph 1:21).

Can you tell me how you interpret this passage (especially verses 20-22):

Ephesians 1:17 That the God of our Lord Jesus Christ, the Father of glory, may give unto you the spirit of wisdom and revelation in the knowledge of him: 18 The eyes of your understanding being enlightened; that ye may know what is the hope of his calling, and what the riches of the glory of his inheritance in the saints, 19 And what is the exceeding greatness of his power to us-ward who believe, according to the working of his mighty power, 20 Which he wrought in Christ, when he raised him from the dead, and set him at his own right hand in the heavenly places, 21 Far above all principality, and power, and might, and dominion, and every name that is named, not only in this world, but also in that which is to come: 22 And hath put all things under his feet, and gave him to be the head over all things to the church, 23 Which is his body, the fulness of him that filleth all in all.

Clearly, the Father put Jesus above all things, so how can you think that He's not already on His throne? Him being on His throne simply means that He is the King of kings and Lord of lords and has authority over all things. Do you think He doesn't currently have authority over all things, even though Paul said He does? If you don't think He does, then tell me something that He does not currently have authority over.

Was Jesus mistaken when He said this:

Matthew 28:16 Then the eleven disciples went away into Galilee, into a mountain where Jesus had appointed them. 17 And when they saw him, they worshipped him: but some doubted. 18 And Jesus came and spake unto them, saying, All power is given unto me in heaven and in earth.

Hi SJ,

Yes we both agree that the `throne` is not a physical seat. God is Spirit. However it does speak of authority and power. Now we do need to distinguish between the Father`s throne, (authority and power) and the Son`s throne, (authority and power). For we, the Body of Christ have been promised to sit with the Lord on His throne. (Rev. 3: 21)

And we will not `sit` on God the Father`s throne, (authority and power), for He is above all. And that is in relation to function. For we know that Jesus is equal, of the same mind and in unity with the Father and the Holy Spirit.

Thus the Son`s throne, as King of Kings and Lord of Lords, is in the visible realm, the angelic realm which is the highest in the created order.

At the moment, we know that Jesus is at the Father`s right hand on the Father`s throne. (Eph. 1:20 & 21). He has been given all authority and power in the created order, under the Father. (1 Cor. 15:28)

In time the Father will send Jesus to gather His Body. (Acts 3: 20 & 21) Together we will witness the inauguration of the Lord Jesus Christ to His own throne, (authority and power) in the angelic realm. (Ps. 2: 6). From there He will rule and reign and begin to put down all rebellious rule and authority. ( 1 Cor. 15: 25).

Marilyn.

keras · Jul 2, 2021

Marilyn C said:
It seems that what Jesus was saying would not make sense to His audience, the Jews if He was referring to the Body of Christ. A group that was not even in existence in those days.

Plainly; not much of what Jesus said made sense to the Jews.
Jesus and the Apostles had the distant view, they preached to us, the people who have accepted Jesus, though we have not seen Him. 1 Peter 1:8-9

Timtofly · Jul 2, 2021

Spiritual Jew said:
Obviously. How could people in the grave appear before the throne for judgment? Is that how you understand Revelation 20:11-15? If so, that makes no sense.

12 And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works.

13 And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works.

14 And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death.

Looks like they are dead people standing before the throne.

They are not dead people in Mathew 25.

Spiritual Jew said:
They're not. Where does scripture teach such a thing? Give me specific verses.

Matthew 25 points out they are alive and walking around after the Second Coming. Christ sets up His glorious throne and judges people alive and walking around on the earth. Nations is not a term used for dead people in sheol.

Spiritual Jew said:
I have no idea of what you're trying to say here. Can you try again? What is your point?

Matthew 27 indicates all came out of Abraham's bosom, and left the confines of death and sheol.

You claim they died again. How can they be removed from death only to die again? They were already resurrected into incorruptible bodies. They realized the heavenly city, when Jesus ascended with them into Paradise. Hebrews 11 was a done deal with the last day resurrection of Jesus Christ, the Resurrection and the Life. They were the firstfruits of that heavenly city, Paradise.

Spiritual Jew said:
This is the most wrong thing that anyone has ever said about anything. No, unbelievers will not be inheriting eternal life in the kingdom prepared from the foundation of the world. That is not taught anywhere in scripture. Instead, they will be cast into the lake of fire (Matt 25:41, Rev 20:15).

This is complete nonsense and completely unbiblical.

Where are you coming up with this nonsense? You are saying that people can be saved by their works. Scripture makes it very clear that people are saved by grace through faith and NOT by works (Eph 2:8-10). Why are you blatantly contradicting scripture?

Why do you keep twisting my words? You keep claiming my points are not found in Scripture. But the only way to do that is to make them say something they are not saying.

There is life on earth after the Second Coming.

Do you not claim that those in Matthew 25 are chosen for their works? Show me the verse that claims they had faith in God's Atonement as their salvation. This is after the Second Coming while Christ is on the earth. They are alive, and have never experienced death. They are not the church. The church does not inherit eternal life based on works. Joining the body of Christ is a conscious decision where one leaves behind their dead sinful self and accepts the will of the Holy Spirit. Salvation is not an accident, nor because a person did something unconsciously to Jesus Christ by doing it to the "least of these".

sovereigngrace · Jul 2, 2021

Marilyn C said:
Hi sg,

Actually we need to step back a bit further. The heavens are not pure in His sight. (Job 15: 15) and then there is need of the visible rulership in the angelic realm. So rulership in those realms need to be addressed before there is any restoration on the earth.

Also the believer`s inheritance is not the new earth, but with Christ in the third heaven on His throne. (Rev. 3: 21)

Says who? This is all your opinion. It is not demanded in the NT. Christ reigns now with all power in heaven an on earth. You seem to deny that.

The believer`s inheritance is Christ, the new earth, and glorification. There is nothing in the NT that states we are going back to heaven. Romans 8:19-23 states, “For the earnest expectation of the creature waiteth for the manifestation of the sons of God. For the creature was made subject to vanity, not willingly, but by reason of him who hath subjected the same in hope, Because the creature itself also shall be delivered from the bondage of corruption (phthora or decay) into the glorious liberty of the children of God. For we know that the whole creation groaneth and travaileth in pain together until now. And not only they, but ourselves also, which have the firstfruits of the Spirit, even we ourselves groan within ourselves, waiting for the adoption, [to wit], the redemption of our body.”

There is a direct connection between the liberation of “creation” and the liberation of the “sons of God.” Both the creature and creation are waiting for “the adoption, [to wit], the redemption of our body” – or resurrection day. This is the day when both will simultaneously be delivered from the aforementioned “bondage of corruption.” The day of redemption is shown throughout Scripture to be the second coming of Christ. It is there is that man experiences the final part of redemption – the redemption of his body.

Premils have no answer to the fact that Scripture shows the regeneration of the earth, heavens and elements to occur at Christ's return, not after some imaginary future millennial kingdom blighted with sin and sinners, dying and crying, corruption and crime, war and terror of the Premil scenario, including the pointless slaughter of countless innocent animals during that period.

The fact is: sin, death, disease, Satan, the wicked, wickedness and decay corrupt this current age, but are banished from the age to come at the end with the regeneration of the whole cosmos.

DavidPT · Jul 2, 2021

Spiritual Jew said:
That's not common sense. That's doctrinal bias on your part. You are only ASSUMING that He had not already been sitting on His throne. The difference here is that He will be sitting on His throne to JUDGE at His second coming which He will have not previously done yet up to that point.

First of all, none of that involving Him sitting on His throne to judge has a thing to do with any of the following, yet all of the following is meaning post the sheep and goats judgment, not during it instead---That ye may eat and drink at my table in my kingdom, and sit on thrones judging the twelve tribes of Israel(Luke 22:30). All of those things take place during the regeneration, that according to Matthew 19:28. No one would already be eating and drinking at His table in His kingdom, in any sense, during the time of the sheep and goats judgment. No one would already be sitting on thrones judging the 12 tribes of Israel, in any sense, during the time of the sheep and goats judgment. That judgment doesn't involve any of that.

As to my remarks about common sense, you are somewhat twisting what I meant, though I don't think you are doing it on purpose, but that you are doing it unknowingly, apparently.

What did I say common sense says? Did I not say that the 'then' in the following verse---When the Son of man shall come in his glory, and all the holy angels with him, then shall he sit upon the throne of his glory(Matthew 25:31)---indicates that Jesus isn't already sitting in His own throne, and won't be until the following happens first---When the Son of man shall come in His glory, and all the holy angels with Him? How is that not common sense? Why should it instead take a rocket scientist to figure out what Jesus is meaning here?

2 weeks from today will be John's next birthday, then he will be 45 years old.

Who in their right frame of mind would argue that the 'then' is not actually meaning once that time arrives, but is instead already meaning before that time arrives, that John is already literally 45 years old before his next birthday takes place 2 weeks from today? No one in their right frame of mind would argue something like that, and the reason why is because it defies common sense, obviously. Why wouldn't the same logic apply with the 'then' in Matthew 25:31, that it's not until first the Son of man shall come in his glory, and all the holy angels with him, THEN shall he sit upon the throne of his glory? How can He already be sitting upon the throne of His glory, in any sense, before He even returns first?

sovereigngrace · Jul 2, 2021

DavidPT said:
First of all, none of that involving Him sitting on His throne to judge has a thing to do with any of the following, yet all of the following is meaning post the sheep and goats judgment, not during it instead---That ye may eat and drink at my table in my kingdom, and sit on thrones judging the twelve tribes of Israel(Luke 22:30). All of those things take place during the regeneration, that according to Matthew 19:28. No one would already be eating and drinking at His table in His kingdom, in any sense, during the time of the sheep and goats judgment. No one would already be sitting on thrones judging the 12 tribes of Israel, in any sense, during the time of the sheep and goats judgment. That judgment doesn't involve any of that.

As to my remarks about common sense, you are somewhat twisting what I meant, though I don't think you are doing it on purpose, but that you are doing it unknowingly, apparently.

What did I say common sense says? Did I not say that the 'then' in the following verse---When the Son of man shall come in his glory, and all the holy angels with him, then shall he sit upon the throne of his glory(Matthew 25:31)---indicates that Jesus isn't already sitting in His own throne, and won't be until the following happens first---When the Son of man shall come in His glory, and all the holy angels with Him? How is that not common sense? Why should it instead take a rocket scientist to figure out what Jesus is meaning here?

2 weeks from today will be John's next birthday, then he will be 45 years old.

Who in their right frame of mind would argue that the 'then' is not actually meaning once that time arrives, but is instead already meaning before that time arrives, that John is already literally 45 years old before his next birthday takes place 2 weeks from today? No one in their right frame of mind would argue something like that, and the reason why is because it defies common sense, obviously. Why wouldn't the same logic apply with the 'then' in Matthew 25:31, that it's not until first the Son of man shall come in his glory, and all the holy angels with him, THEN shall he sit upon the throne of his glory? How can He already be sitting upon the throne of His glory, in any sense, before He even returns first?

Jesus is definitely alluding to His climactic return in Matthew 25:31-34, 41, 46. He says, “When the son of man shall come in his glory, and all the holy angels with him, then shall he sit upon the throne of his glory: and before him shall be gathered all nations: and he shall separate them one from another, as a shepherd divideth his sheep from the goats: and he shall set the sheep on his right hand, but the goats on the left. Then shall the King say unto them on his right hand, Come, ye blessed of my Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world … then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels … and these shall go away into everlasting punishment: but the righteous into life eternal."

The glorified Christ is coming in all His glory to glorify His people and glorify the earth. This same glorified Christ and His glorified Church will then inherit a glorified earth - forever - which is sin-free goat-free curse-free. What happens then? A general judgment. This demolished the Premil theory of 2 separate judgment days. This passage describes how "the Son of man shall come in his glory" and will bring "all the holy angels with him." Then we shall all see Him and He will finally "sit upon the throne of his glory."

How could anyone deny that Christ is now glorified and that when He returns it is in power and glory? Christ announced to His disciples after the resurrection: “All power is given unto me in heaven and in earth” (Matthew 28:18). We cannot divest Christ of His rightful power and glory by delaying this great all-consummating event for well over 1,000 yrs after His return. By suspending His Coming in power and glory for 1,000 yrs, Premils dilute the majesty and actual purpose of His appearing.

This passage describes how "the Son of man shall come in his glory" and will bring "all the holy angels with him." Then we shall all see Him and He will finally "sit upon the throne of his glory." The glorified Christis coming

jeffweedaman · Jul 2, 2021

Amen SG

Jude

　14 It was also about these men that Enoch, in the seventh generation from Adam, prophesied, saying, “Behold, the Lord came with many thousands of His holy ones, 15 to execute judgment upon all, and to convict all the ungodly of all their ungodly deeds which they have done in an ungodly way, and of all the harsh things which ungodly sinners have spoken against Him.”

Matt 16
Jesus said...,
27 For the Son of Man is going to come in the glory of His Father with His angels, and will then repay every man according to his deeds.

2Thess 1

This is a plain indication of God’s righteous judgment so that you will be considered worthy of the kingdom of God, for which indeed you are suffering. 6 For after all it is only just for God to repay with affliction those who afflict you, 7 and to give relief to you who are afflicted and to us as well when the Lord Jesus will be revealed from heaven with His mighty angels in flaming fire, 8 dealing out retribution to those who do not know God and to those who do not obey the gospel of our Lord Jesus. 9 These will pay the penalty of eternal destruction, away from the presence of the Lord and from the glory of His power, 10 when He comes to be glorified in His saints on that day, and to be marveled at among all who have believed—for our testimony to you was believed.

That makes 4 scriptures all dealing with full and final judgment.

Amill united 4 v premill wanderers 0.... :amen:

Marilyn C · Jul 2, 2021

keras said:
Plainly; not much of what Jesus said made sense to the Jews.
Jesus and the Apostles had the distant view, they preached to us, the people who have accepted Jesus, though we have not seen Him. 1 Peter 1:8-9

Hi keras,

Jesus was telling the Jews their future.

As to the 12 disciples, they knew NOTHING of the Body of Christ. Remember they asked Jesus when He was going to restore Israel`s rulership. Also Peter was trying to get the Gentiles to act like Jews. So they didn`t have the revelation of the Body of Christ. They knew that Jesus was Lord and the Christ and that they would rule over the 12 tribes of Israel. That was their inheritance.

The Lord Jesus revealed more of His purposes to the Apostle Paul, regarding the Body of Christ.

Marilyn.

(BTW I didn`t think it was good to be sarcastic to Douggg on the other thread. Since we know the truth then it behoves us to be gracious to those who haven`t received it yet.)

Marilyn C · Jul 2, 2021

sovereigngrace said:
Says who? This is all your opinion. It is not demanded in the NT. Christ reigns now with all power in heaven an on earth. You seem to deny that.

The believer`s inheritance is Christ, the new earth, and glorification. There is nothing in the NT that states we are going back to heaven.....

Hi sg,

It is the Father who is actively bringing the nations to His son`s footstool for judgment.

`The Lord, (Father) said to my Lord, (Jesus), "Sit at my right hand TILL I make your enemies your footstool." (Ps. 110: 1)

This obviously is still in the process!

Also the believers in the Body of Christ have the inheritance of sitting on Christ`s own throne, (authority and power) in the angelic realm. (Rev. 3: 21) We never come back to earth. That is not for us.

Marilyn.

Marilyn C · Jul 2, 2021

sovereigngrace said:
The glorified Christ is coming in all His glory to glorify His people and glorify the earth. This same glorified Christ and His glorified Church will then inherit a glorified earth

Hi sg,

And where does God`s word say that we, the believers in Christ inherit the earth?

Marilyn.

keras · Jul 2, 2021

Those who believe that the Return of Jesus will result in the new heavens and the new earth, fail to properly read Revelation 19 to 22.

Jesus does NOT destroy everything at His Return and after the 1000 years of His earthly reign have ended, THEN the NH,NE will come and all those whose names were in the Book of Life will be with God for Eternity.

keras · Jul 2, 2021

Marilyn C said:
Hi sg,

And where does God`s word say that we, the believers in Christ inherit the earth?
Marilyn.

Our heritage; the promises of God:

Ephesians 1:11-14 In Christ we have been given our share in the heritage, as was decreed in His design …for it was God’s will that we, who were the first to set our hope on Jesus and to praise His glory.

And, in Christ, you Christians also, once you believed and received the Holy Spirit, the promise of the inheritance that will be ours, when God has redeemed all of His own, to His glory and praise.

Ephesians 3:6 Through the Gospel, the Gentiles are joint heirs with the Jews, part of the same body, sharers together in the promises made through Jesus.

Romans 8:16-17 The Spirit of God affirms that we are His children and if children, then also the heirs of God and fellow heirs with Jesus, but we must share His suffering if we are to share His glory.

Romans 8:19 The Created universe is waiting with eager expectation for God’s sons to be revealed.

Our greatest hope as born again Christians, is the promise of eternal life. John 3:16,Titus 3:5-7, +

But we also inherit the Land promises, Psalms 37:29, Ezekiel 36:8-12, Ezekiel 34:11-31 It is we Christians, from every tribe, race, nation and language, that are the vast multitude seen waving palm branches in Jerusalem. Revelation 7:9

We are the ones who have passed thru the great ordeal of the Sixth Seal disaster and have earned the white garments by standing firm in our faith. Revelation 7:14

Note: in Romans 8:19, that God’s true children are not yet made known, Jesus will come with His winnowing fork and sift the wheat from the chaff. Matthew 3:12

Those Christians who stood strong in their faith when He comes in fire, Luke 12:49, 2 Thessalonians 1:7-8, are the wheat that will be gathered into the granary of the holy Land. The chaff of the ungodly peoples will be as ashes under our feet. Isaiah 66:17, Malachi 4:3, 2 Peter 3:7

Marilyn C · Jul 2, 2021

keras said:
Our heritage; the promises of God:

Ephesians 1:11-14 In Christ we have been given our share in the heritage, as was decreed in His design …for it was God’s will that we, who were the first to set our hope on Jesus and to praise His glory.

And, in Christ, you Christians also, once you believed and received the Holy Spirit, the promise of the inheritance that will be ours, when God has redeemed all of His own, to His glory and praise.

Ephesians 3:6 Through the Gospel, the Gentiles are joint heirs with the Jews, part of the same body, sharers together in the promises made through Jesus.

Romans 8:16-17 The Spirit of God affirms that we are His children and if children, then also the heirs of God and fellow heirs with Jesus, but we must share His suffering if we are to share His glory.

Romans 8:19 The Created universe is waiting with eager expectation for God’s sons to be revealed.

Our greatest hope as born again Christians, is the promise of eternal life. John 3:16,Titus 3:5-7, +

But we also inherit the Land promises, Psalms 37:29, Ezekiel 36:8-12, Ezekiel 34:11-31 It is we Christians, from every tribe, race, nation and language, that are the vast multitude seen waving palm branches in Jerusalem. Revelation 7:9

We are the ones who have passed thru the great ordeal of the Sixth Seal disaster and have earned the white garments by standing firm in our faith. Revelation 7:14

Note: in Romans 8:19, that God’s true children are not yet made known, Jesus will come with His winnowing fork and sift the wheat from the chaff. Matthew 3:12

Those Christians who stood strong in their faith when He comes in fire, Luke 12:49, 2 Thessalonians 1:7-8, are the wheat that will be gathered into the granary of the holy Land. The chaff of the ungodly peoples will be as ashes under our feet. Isaiah 66:17, Malachi 4:3, 2 Peter 3:7

Hi keras,

Yes God`s promises TO US & NOT TO OTHERS.

One of the first rules we learn when reading is `Who is talking to whom.`

I think you need to revisit that.

Marilyn.

sovereigngrace · Jul 2, 2021

Marilyn C said:
Hi sg,

And where does God`s word say that we, the believers in Christ inherit the earth?

Marilyn.

Christ confirmed this in Matthew 5:5 saying, "Blessed are the meek: for they shall inherit the earth."

The meek alone possess the new earth - those that have been redeemed by His precious blood. This is assuredly talking about a new glorified earth, not this current corrupt arrangement that they have just departed. Their inheritance is not another period of corruption, rebellion and despair. They have just escaped that. The promised earth in view is actually depicted as a reward for the faithful. It cannot therefore be shared with the wicked.

2 Peter 3:3-13 tells us: “there shall come in the last days scoffers, walking after their own lusts, And saying, Where is the promise of his coming (parousia)? for since the fathers fell asleep, all things continue as they were from the beginning of the creation. For this they willingly are ignorant of, that by the word of God the heavens were of old, and the earth standing out of the water and in the water: Whereby the world that then was, being overflowed with water, perished: But the heavens and the earth, which are now, by the same word are kept in store, reserved unto fire against the day of judgment and perdition of ungodly men. But, beloved, be not ignorant of this one thing, that one day is with the Lord as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day. The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance. But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up. Seeing then that all these things shall be dissolved, what manner of persons ought ye to be in all holy conversation and godliness, Looking for and hasting unto the coming of the day of God, wherein the heavens being on fire shall be dissolved, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat? Nevertheless we, according to his promise, look for new heavens and a new earth, wherein dwelleth righteousness.”

The destruction of our current earth coincides with the fiery judgment of the wicked at the Lord’s return. The purpose of this current earth being destroyed by fire at the same time as the wicked is to purge this earth of every vestige of the bondage of corruption and purify it of all sin and unrighteousness. It will indeed be a perfect glorified state. The new earth is a place that is completely liberated from all unrighteousness.

We see the last of three references to God’s “promise” in verse 13. In it Peter describes the events that accompany Christ’s return as a thief. Whilst this day brings terror to the wicked, he reassures the believer that Christ’s coming is a day that we should anticipate with hope, as “we, according to his promise (“the promise of his coming”), look for new heavens and a new earth, wherein dwelleth righteousness.” God’s people “according to His promise” are going to be ushered unto the new perfected earth when He appears – a hope that should bring joy and comfort to the heart of every believer.

If the curse continued on the new earth then the earth would be corrupt, but it isn't. The reason we need glorified is because the earth needs glorified. The new earth ushers in the eternal state. Romans 8 tells us it is free from the bondage of corruption [all the fruit of the fall]. It is for glorified (incorruptible) beings only.

The coming of Christ is not to high-five sin and mollycoddle sinners. It is to judge sinners and banish sin from the earth forever. He is not coming to save sinners but judge them. Premil ushers countless mortal rebels unto the new earth, but Scripture shows they are all totally destroyed. The new earth is incorrupt! Only the incorrupt can possess it. Your argument conflicts with clear and repeated Scripture.

1 Corinthians 15:50 clearly states, “flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; neither doth corruption inherit incorruption.” This reading makes plain, “flesh and blood” or mortal believers cannot inherit a glorified earth that has been purified by fire of every last vestige of the curse. Man in his sinful corruptible state cannot inherit an incorruptible regenerated earth. Nothing could be plainer. The “unrighteous shall not inherit” this “kingdom” (1 Corinthians 6:9).

Psalms 37:9-11 says, "For evildoers shall be cut off: but those that wait upon the LORD, they shall inherit the earth. For yet a little while, and the wicked shall not be: yea, thou shalt diligently consider his place, and it shall not be. But the meek shall inherit the earth; and shall delight themselves in the abundance of peace."

Here "evildoers" and "the wicked" are synonymous titles that refer to the unrighteous whereas the designations "those that wait upon the LORD" and "the meek" refer to the righteous. The meek are the glorified believers. They are the antithesis of the wicked. Can you not see that? There are only ever 2 peoples.

Marilyn C · Jul 2, 2021

sovereigngrace said:
Christ confirmed this in Matthew 5:5 saying, "Blessed are the meek: for they shall inherit the earth."

The meek alone possess the new earth - those that have been redeemed by His precious blood. This is assuredly talking about a new glorified earth, not this current corrupt arrangement that they have just departed. Their inheritance is not another period of corruption, rebellion and despair. They have just escaped that. The promised earth in view is actually depicted as a reward for the faithful. It cannot therefore be shared with the wicked.

.

Hi sg,

Now remember the rule when reading God`s word or any writing - `Who is talking to whom.`

Thus we see that Jesus was talking to the people of Israel who were promised the earth as an inheritance. They were promised that they would rule the nations of the earth.

The Body of Christ revelation was NOT known at that time for the Lord HAD NOT revealed that purpose then.

Now we, the Body of Christ have been promised a greater inheritance -

`To him who overcomes I will grant to sit with Me on My throne...` (Rev. 3: 21)

Marilyn.

sovereigngrace · Jul 2, 2021

Marilyn C said:
Hi sg,

Now remember the rule when reading God`s word or any writing - `Who is talking to whom.`

Thus we see that Jesus was talking to the people of Israel who were promised the earth as an inheritance. They were promised that they would rule the nations of the earth.

The Body of Christ revelation was NOT known at that time for the Lord HAD NOT revealed that purpose then.

Now we, the Body of Christ have been promised a greater inheritance -

`To him who overcomes I will grant to sit with Me on My throne...` (Rev. 3: 21)

Marilyn.

Once again, you totally avoided the various Scriptures and arguments above. That is your form! Notwithstanding, it is very frustrating engaging with you. You duck around every text that forbids your beliefs. Dispys must do that.

The reality is: God rejects the ethnic apartheid you promote. There is nothing more unbiblical in this new covenant period than trying to divide up the people of God on the grounds of ethnicity. That is spiritual apartheid. It runs completely to the New Testament plan of God to bring Jew and Gentile together equally in Christ. The whole mission of Jesus Christ in introducing the new covenant was to unite Jew and Gentile in salvation. Nothing could be clearer in the New Testament!

The New Testament makes clear; there is only one elect people. There is only one good olive tree, not two; one body, not two; one bride, not two; one spiritual temple, not two; one people of God, not two; one household of faith, not two; one fold, not two; one man, not “twain,” and one elect of God throughout time.

There is also one Gospel, not 2 as Dispies teach. Jesus was indeed the “hope of Israel” – the only hope. Those among this privileged nation that were given the Gospel and ordinances of God who took a hold of the covenant promises – by faith – entered into a relationship with God and experienced personal salvation.

Christ is the unifying factor among all believers throughout time

God does not separate His elect up, He unites them together in Christ. There is nothing more unbiblical in this new covenant period than trying to divide up the people of God on the grounds of ethnicity. That is spiritual apartheid, and runs completely against the New Testament plan of God to bring Jew and Gentile together equally in Christ. The whole mission of Jesus Christ in introducing the new covenant was to unite Jew and Gentile in salvation. Nothing could be clearer in the New Testament!

Paul reminds the Jews what Israel did with their king, in Acts 13:27-30, saying, “For they that dwell at Jerusalem, and their rulers, because they knew him not, nor yet the voices of the prophets which are read every sabbath day, they have fulfilled them in condemning him. And though they found no cause of death in him, yet desired they Pilate that he should be slain. And when they had fulfilled all that was written of him, they took him down from the tree, and laid him in a sepulchre. But God raised him from the dead.”

Here we see the preordained plan unfolding in precise detail according to the divine blueprint.

Paul explained to the Jews that he said “none other things than those which the prophets and Moses did say should come: That Christ should suffer, and that he should be the first that should rise from the dead, and should shew light unto the people, and to the Gentiles” (Acts 26:22-23).

God knew full-well that man would fall. He knew full-well that man could not redeem Himself. Thus, in God's grace, mercy and love, He provided an escape for sin before there was ever sin or a sinner.

Revelation 13:8 tells us that Christ was “the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world.” He was predestined to come into this world as a substitutionary sacrifice, without which no man could be saved. 1 Peter 1:19 confirms that Christ was “a lamb without blemish and without spot: Who verily was foreordained before the foundation of the world, but was manifest in these last times for you.” There was a predetermined blueprint that Christ had to fulfil – He did perfectly.

Calvary was an important part of God's Sovereign plan for fallen-man. Our salvation was secured in eternity because God lives and works in eternity. It was experientially realized in time, because man is born and lives in time. Christ performed the Father's will for our lives - by dying for us. The Holy Spirit applied the Father's will to our lives – by convicting us and regenerating us.

Marilyn C · Jul 2, 2021

sovereigngrace said:
Once again, you totally avoided the various Scriptures and arguments above. That is your form! Notwithstanding, it is very frustrating engaging with you. You duck around every text that forbids your beliefs. Dispys must do that.

The reality is: God rejects the ethnic apartheid you promote. There is nothing more unbiblical in this new covenant period than trying to divide up the people of God on the grounds of ethnicity. That is spiritual apartheid. It runs completely to the New Testament plan of God to bring Jew and Gentile together equally in Christ. The whole mission of Jesus Christ in introducing the new covenant was to unite Jew and Gentile in salvation. Nothing could be clearer in the New Testament!

The New Testament makes clear; there is only one elect people. There is only one good olive tree, not two; one body, not two; one bride, not two; one spiritual temple, not two; one people of God, not two; one household of faith, not two; one fold, not two; one man, not “twain,” and one elect of God throughout time.

There is also one Gospel, not 2 as Dispies teach. Jesus was indeed the “hope of Israel” – the only hope. Those among this privileged nation that were given the Gospel and ordinances of God who took a hold of the covenant promises – by faith – entered into a relationship with God and experienced personal salvation.

Christ is the unifying factor among all believers throughout time

God does not separate His elect up, He unites them together in Christ. There is nothing more unbiblical in this new covenant period than trying to divide up the people of God on the grounds of ethnicity. That is spiritual apartheid, and runs completely against the New Testament plan of God to bring Jew and Gentile together equally in Christ. The whole mission of Jesus Christ in introducing the new covenant was to unite Jew and Gentile in salvation. Nothing could be clearer in the New Testament!

Paul reminds the Jews what Israel did with their king, in Acts 13:27-30, saying, “For they that dwell at Jerusalem, and their rulers, because they knew him not, nor yet the voices of the prophets which are read every sabbath day, they have fulfilled them in condemning him. And though they found no cause of death in him, yet desired they Pilate that he should be slain. And when they had fulfilled all that was written of him, they took him down from the tree, and laid him in a sepulchre. But God raised him from the dead.”

Here we see the preordained plan unfolding in precise detail according to the divine blueprint.

Paul explained to the Jews that he said “none other things than those which the prophets and Moses did say should come: That Christ should suffer, and that he should be the first that should rise from the dead, and should shew light unto the people, and to the Gentiles” (Acts 26:22-23).

God knew full-well that man would fall. He knew full-well that man could not redeem Himself. Thus, in God's grace, mercy and love, He provided an escape for sin before there was ever sin or a sinner.

Revelation 13:8 tells us that Christ was “the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world.” He was predestined to come into this world as a substitutionary sacrifice, without which no man could be saved. 1 Peter 1:19 confirms that Christ was “a lamb without blemish and without spot: Who verily was foreordained before the foundation of the world, but was manifest in these last times for you.” There was a predetermined blueprint that Christ had to fulfil – He did perfectly.

Calvary was an important part of God's Sovereign plan for fallen-man. Our salvation was secured in eternity because God lives and works in eternity. It was experientially realized in time, because man is born and lives in time. Christ performed the Father's will for our lives - by dying for us. The Holy Spirit applied the Father's will to our lives – by convicting us and regenerating us.

Hi sg,

I don`t go through all your scriptures for the first point needs to be discussed. When you reply to THAT one point then we can go on to others.

The basis of your argument is that we are all in the Body of Christ. That is NOT held up by scripture.

Who are the `nations of the saved?` on the new earth?
Who are in the New Jerusalem?
Who are in the angelic realm on Christ`s own throne?

Yes we, the Body of Christ are one together, but there is more to God`s purposes than just US!

Marilyn.

jeffweedaman · Jul 2, 2021

1Cor 12

12 For just as the body is one and yet has many parts, and all the parts of the body, though they are many, are one body, so also is Christ. 13 For by one Spirit we were all baptized into one body, whether Jews or Greeks, whether slaves or free, and we were all made to drink of one Spirit.

14 For the body is not one part, but many. 15 If the foot says, “Because I am not a hand, I am not a part of the body,” it is not for this reason any less a part of the body. 16 And if the ear says, “Because I am not an eye, I am not a part of the body,” it is not for this reason any less a part of the body. 17 If the whole body were an eye, where would the hearing be? If the whole body were hearing, where would the sense of smell be? 18 But now God has arranged the parts, each one of them in the body, just as He desired. 19 If they were all one part, where would the body be? 20 But now there are many parts, but one body. 21 And the eye cannot say to the hand, “I have no need of you”; or again, the head to the feet, “I have no need of you.” 22 On the contrary, it is much truer that the parts of the body which seem to be weaker are necessary; 23 and those parts of the body which we consider less honorable, on these we bestow greater honor, and our less presentable parts become much more presentable, 24 whereas our more presentable parts have no need of it. But God has so composed the body, giving more abundant honor to that part which lacked, 25 so that there may be no division in the body, but that the parts may have the same care for one another. 26 And if one part of the body suffers, all the parts suffer with it; if a part is honored, all the parts rejoice with it.

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