Christianity has nothing to offer you while you're alive

Jesse Dornfeld

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Sorry, I don't know what you're saying because I've redacted the majority of what was said.

So you redacted what you were saying about what exactly? I know you said I told you something you didn't know, but I don't know how that relates. Could you explain?
 
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So you redacted what you were saying about what exactly? I know you said I told you something you didn't know, but I don't know how that relates. Could you explain?

I'm saying that you redacted my entire post.
 
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Jesse Dornfeld

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I'm saying that you redacted my entire post.

I quoted the part I found most relevant/concerning. I wanted to know if I was talking with someone who believes it is a fact that religion is false. If that is not the case, then I can try and get back to you tomorrow if you like about this.
 
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I quoted the part I found most relevant/concerning. I wanted to know if I was talking with someone who believes it is a fact that religion is false. If that is not the case, then I can try and get back to you tomorrow if you like about this.

Well actually maybe we could pick this up on the thread you created because I answer the question there.
 
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dóxatotheó

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The promise of eternal life requires that you die. Materially, Christianity offers you absolutely nothing while you're alive. You are, however, pressured into offering time and money to Christianity.

So what does Christianity offer that is immaterial?

Christianity offers hope that things will be better once you die. I don't need Christianity for this. There are many religions that offer the same thing, often with less strings attached.

Christianity offers philosophy. Jesus was a philosopher. However, Christians are compelled to accept as absolute truth everything that Jesus said. Even when Jesus suggested that we don't need to wash our hands before we eat. It has been well established that this is a bad idea. Therefore, it is best to pick and choose from the sayings of Jesus rather than accepting all of them. As an atheist, I pick and choose from religious philosophy all the time. Not only do I not need Christianity to do this, but as a Christian I wouldn't even have the freedom to pick and choose from the sayings of Jesus.

Therefore, Christianity offers nothing materially, and its immaterial offers come at a cost. Christianity restricts your freedoms and wastes your time and money. The little that it does offer can be found elsewhere.
this religion brings more than eternal life also brings change in behavior and helps with depression studies show theism helps more people suffering from mental depression
The Mental Health Benefits of Religion & Spirituality | NAMI: National Alliance on Mental Illness
Religious and Spiritual Factors in Depression: Review and Integration of the Research
 
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this religion brings more than eternal life also brings change in behavior and helps with depression studies show theism helps more people suffering from mental depression
The Mental Health Benefits of Religion & Spirituality | NAMI: National Alliance on Mental Illness
Religious and Spiritual Factors in Depression: Review and Integration of the Research

Any religion could presumably do the same thing, including those who worship a milk jug. What is it about Christianity in particular that helps? I didn't read your sources, so let me know if there's anything in there about Christianity in particular.
 
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Halbhh

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Any religion could presumably do the same thing, including those who worship a milk jug. What is it about Christianity in particular that helps? I didn't read your sources, so let me know if there's anything in there about Christianity in particular.

Religions vary or have significant differences in their instructions, and won't generally all "presumably do the same thing".

It seems like you are relying on ideas like the above you state as if you believe them correct, but they seem kinda ad hoc assertions, and not very sound/reliable, not something to rely on as if factual.

Could I suggest you become more skeptical -- but about your own ideas? It would be beneficial.
 
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dóxatotheó

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Any religion could presumably do the same thing, including those who worship a milk jug. What is it about Christianity in particular that helps? I didn't read your sources, so let me know if there's anything in there about Christianity in particular.
It speaks about Christianity in regards what the faith in Christ does for them. Its how people change from having mental depression to beating there mental change in action. Religious beliefs in particular such as Christianity brings change to people mentally,physically, and emotionally. Also this isn't what your original thread stated.
 
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Eloy Craft

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When we look at Jesus' earthly life it wasn't about what He got but what He gave. His life seemed to end in disaster. But afterwards His life changed everything for the better. The Christian life isn't about self it's about other. Sacrificial love doesn't usually result in immediate benefits. Christian life is a death to life process not visa versa. This is strange to most people of the world.
 
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Religions vary or have significant differences in their instructions, and won't generally all "presumably do the same thing".

It seems like you are relying on ideas like the above you state as if you believe them correct, but they seem kinda ad hoc assertions, and not very sound/reliable, not something to rely on as if factual.

Could I suggest you become more skeptical -- but about your own ideas? It would be beneficial.

You could have just answered the question instead of going on about all of that. You make it look like you don't really have the answer.
 
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It speaks about Christianity in regards what the faith in Christ does for them. Its how people change from having mental depression to beating there mental change in action. Religious beliefs in particular such as Christianity brings change to people mentally,physically, and emotionally. Also this isn't what your original thread stated.

Correct, this was not in the original post. This notion was parsed out in the thread as it evolved. I didn't spring it on you here just now.

I don't see how your answer does much of anything.
 
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Ed1wolf

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The promise of eternal life requires that you die. Materially, Christianity offers you absolutely nothing while you're alive. You are, however, pressured into offering time and money to Christianity.

So what does Christianity offer that is immaterial?

Christianity offers hope that things will be better once you die. I don't need Christianity for this. There are many religions that offer the same thing, often with less strings attached.

Christianity offers philosophy. Jesus was a philosopher. However, Christians are compelled to accept as absolute truth everything that Jesus said. Even when Jesus suggested that we don't need to wash our hands before we eat. It has been well established that this is a bad idea. Therefore, it is best to pick and choose from the sayings of Jesus rather than accepting all of them. As an atheist, I pick and choose from religious philosophy all the time. Not only do I not need Christianity to do this, but as a Christian I wouldn't even have the freedom to pick and choose from the sayings of Jesus.

Therefore, Christianity offers nothing materially, and its immaterial offers come at a cost. Christianity restricts your freedoms and wastes your time and money. The little that it does offer can be found elsewhere.
It offers many things in this world as well as the next. Gods moral law has been shown by science to produce happier and healthier lives for people as compared to other moral systems. Christianity has also provided most of the best principles for Western society, such as human equality and human rights.
 
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Neogaia777

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The promise of eternal life requires that you die. Materially, Christianity offers you absolutely nothing while you're alive. You are, however, pressured into offering time and money to Christianity.

So what does Christianity offer that is immaterial?

Christianity offers hope that things will be better once you die. I don't need Christianity for this. There are many religions that offer the same thing, often with less strings attached.

Christianity offers philosophy. Jesus was a philosopher. However, Christians are compelled to accept as absolute truth everything that Jesus said. Even when Jesus suggested that we don't need to wash our hands before we eat. It has been well established that this is a bad idea. Therefore, it is best to pick and choose from the sayings of Jesus rather than accepting all of them. As an atheist, I pick and choose from religious philosophy all the time. Not only do I not need Christianity to do this, but as a Christian I wouldn't even have the freedom to pick and choose from the sayings of Jesus.

Therefore, Christianity offers nothing materially, and its immaterial offers come at a cost. Christianity restricts your freedoms and wastes your time and money. The little that it does offer can be found elsewhere.
If you don't repent of most of your sins in this life, then your going to have a very bad time in this life before you die, etc...

And that is part of what Christianity teaches, etc...

That is taught both in the here and now and about this life right now, etc...

And if that "fact", and it is or should be a proven "fact" by now, etc; has not become very apparent to very many yet, etc, then people are still very dumb and stupid/ignorant/arrogant, etc...

Might still get into heaven maybe, "maybe", but if you don't ever repent, at least of some of your sins in this life, if not almost all of them during your time here in this life, etc, then your going to have a very, very bad time in this life, before you finally get there, to heaven, etc, if you finally do in the end, etc...

And you certainly will not be called "great" there (in Heaven) if you don't ever either, (repent of most of them here, etc), if you do still get there, or do still wind up there in or by the end, etc...

Oh, and you see it as "taking away from some of your freedoms", etc...?

Well, the only reason I think that you probably think that, is only if, A: you still want to sin and see it as enjoyable but don't realize that it will only bring you a lot of suffering and misery in the end, and in or by the end of "this life" in the end, etc, or B: you look at a lot of "church people" and see how miserable many of them still are, etc, and your judgments are still only just based on that only, etc...

And in the case of "B", then that is only because most church people either still have not repented yet, but are playing the hypocrite, etc, or they have deceived themselves into thinking they have, but have just only become just only more like the Pharisees only in reality, etc, and is why they are all still very miserable still, etc...

Or another possibility is that they are still just exactly still like the rest of the people of the world still yet also, and still have not been separated from all of those sinful desires yet, etc...

But true repentance, of both and/or any or all of these kinds of sins, etc, can only bring real and true joy and happiness ever only, etc, and that is in this life here before you die, etc, and it will carry over into the next also, etc, and in which case, you will be way ahead of others there when you get there, etc, which can be of great advantage, etc...

But bottom line of what true Christianity truly teaches about this life, etc, is that true repentance of as many kinds of sins, or as many kinds of sinful and evil and wicked desires as you can in this life, etc, can only ever bring, immediate and in this life, only true joy and/or happiness in this life while you are here in this life, etc...

And will get you a "little bit ahead" of everybody else in the next life also, etc...

Anyway,

God Bless!
 
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mindlight

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The promise of eternal life requires that you die. Materially, Christianity offers you absolutely nothing while you're alive. You are, however, pressured into offering time and money to Christianity.

So what does Christianity offer that is immaterial?

Christianity offers hope that things will be better once you die. I don't need Christianity for this. There are many religions that offer the same thing, often with less strings attached.

Christianity offers philosophy. Jesus was a philosopher. However, Christians are compelled to accept as absolute truth everything that Jesus said. Even when Jesus suggested that we don't need to wash our hands before we eat. It has been well established that this is a bad idea. Therefore, it is best to pick and choose from the sayings of Jesus rather than accepting all of them. As an atheist, I pick and choose from religious philosophy all the time. Not only do I not need Christianity to do this, but as a Christian I wouldn't even have the freedom to pick and choose from the sayings of Jesus.

Therefore, Christianity offers nothing materially, and its immaterial offers come at a cost. Christianity restricts your freedoms and wastes your time and money. The little that it does offer can be found elsewhere.

Most of my friends and family are Christians. Many of these I would never have met without the Christian connection. This morning I spoke for about an hour with a man from Rwanda in a conversation that had a Christian framework crossing boundaries of race, experience, and upbringing. Outside of work those kinds of conversations rarely take place among most atheists I know. The fruit of the Spirit: love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, gentleness, and self-control are all obvious benefits that add value to my life and make the people I hang around with more pleasant company. Statistically, the nations that have been most heavily influenced by Christianity are better off than any other religious grouping, produce more Nobel prize winners, and are more innovative generally. Migration patterns are from non-Christian to Christian nations generally. Atheists generally thrive in the ruins of churches.

The main benefit is definitely in the life to come but I think that the world is also better off for the immediate impacts of Christians and Christian motivated agendas. For instance, the abolition of slavery, child working laws, welfare states, etc all have strong Christian roots.
 
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Most of my friends and family are Christians. Many of these I would never have met without the Christian connection. This morning I spoke for about an hour with a man from Rwanda in a conversation that had a Christian framework crossing boundaries of race, experience, and upbringing. Outside of work those kinds of conversations rarely take place among most atheists I know.

If you were not a Christian you'd have different friends. Well, obviously. So what?

The fruit of the Spirit: love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, gentleness, and self-control are all obvious benefits that add value to my life and make the people I hang around with more pleasant company.

Huh. Strange. Maybe you've just been very lucky. My experience with Christians has been nothing like that.

As a Christian you are obligated to love your enemies. At the time that was written, it was referring to people who literally wanted to remove your eyeballs from your skull. Imagine loving such a person after experiencing that. Now consider that nearly all Christians I talk to cannot even express agape love for me, some guy who rattles their religion on the internet.

Tell your circle of friends you've lost your faith and become a stout atheist. Some will persist with agape love and friendship, and others will turn on you immediately.

Statistically, the nations that have been most heavily influenced by Christianity are better off than any other religious grouping, produce more Nobel prize winners, and are more innovative generally.

I thought secular nations were doing much better. Source?

Migration patterns are from non-Christian to Christian nations generally. Atheists generally thrive in the ruins of churches.

So you're admitting that atheists thrive without the church.

The main benefit is definitely in the life to come but I think that the world is also better off for the immediate impacts of Christians and Christian motivated agendas. For instance, the abolition of slavery, child working laws, welfare states, etc all have strong Christian roots.

Lol, what a joke. Slavery? The Bible condones slavery and never condemns it. Paul only makes a plea for one specific Christian to release his Christian slave because he could be "useful." The American civil war was Christians vs Christians. Child working laws and welfare states? Lol, those are progressive ideas, not Christian ones.
 
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The promise of eternal life requires that you die. Materially, Christianity offers you absolutely nothing while you're alive. You are, however, pressured into offering time and money to Christianity.

So what does Christianity offer that is immaterial?

Christianity offers hope that things will be better once you die. I don't need Christianity for this. There are many religions that offer the same thing, often with less strings attached.

Christianity offers philosophy. Jesus was a philosopher. However, Christians are compelled to accept as absolute truth everything that Jesus said. Even when Jesus suggested that we don't need to wash our hands before we eat. It has been well established that this is a bad idea. Therefore, it is best to pick and choose from the sayings of Jesus rather than accepting all of them. As an atheist, I pick and choose from religious philosophy all the time. Not only do I not need Christianity to do this, but as a Christian I wouldn't even have the freedom to pick and choose from the sayings of Jesus.

Therefore, Christianity offers nothing materially, and its immaterial offers come at a cost. Christianity restricts your freedoms and wastes your time and money. The little that it does offer can be found elsewhere.

Have you had true peace in your heart, where every burden just falls off? That's how it is to receive Jesus. As time goes by things can disturb our peace, as life always do, but the knowing in your heart you have peace with God, offers us something no other thing in the world can. Faith in Christ also gives us a sense of purpose, belonging and meaning. Suddenly the matter you were so troubled by before, doesn't mean a thing. You also experience love, you love Jesus, it's like falling in love, Jesus becomes the answer to our deepest desire.
 
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Have you had true peace in your heart, where every burden just falls off?
What you need to understand is that many of us non-believers were once believers. Have I had true peace? Yeah, ever since I gave up on the idea that there is an unknowable unsatisfyable jerk who may or may not have elected me to join in him in eternal terror. (And given that it is an entity outside at time, it may or may not do both at once.)

That's how it is to receive Jesus.
Yeah, no.
As time goes by things can disturb our peace, as life always do, but the knowing in your heart you have peace with God, offers us something no other thing in the world can.
You can say this as much as you want, but PLEASE understand, we don't believe you. There is no one, no god, with whom I must want to have peace with! As such, I AM at peace.
Faith in Christ also gives us a sense of purpose, belonging and meaning. Suddenly the matter you were so troubled by before, doesn't mean a thing. You also experience love, you love Jesus, it's like falling in love, Jesus becomes the answer to our deepest desire.
Asking, ‘If there is no God, what is the purpose of life?’ is like asking, ‘If there is no master, whose slave will I be?’ If your purpose of life is to submit as a slave, then your meaning comes from flattering the ego of a person whom you should detest.
~ Dan Barker (The Good Atheist)​

I neither need nor want someone to give me purpose. I'll make my own, thank you very much.
 
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zoidar

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What you need to understand is that many of us non-believers were once believers. Have I had true peace? Yeah, ever since I gave up on the idea that there is an unknowable unsatisfyable jerk who may or may not have elected me to join in him in eternal terror. (And given that it is an entity outside at time, it may or may not do both at once.)

Yeah, no. You can say this as much as you want, but PLEASE understand, we don't believe you. There is no one, no god, with whom I must want to have peace with! As such, I AM at peace.
Asking, ‘If there is no God, what is the purpose of life?’ is like asking, ‘If there is no master, whose slave will I be?’ If your purpose of life is to submit as a slave, then your meaning comes from flattering the ego of a person whom you should detest.
~ Dan Barker (The Good Atheist)​

I neither need nor want someone to give me purpose. I'll make my own, thank you very much.

I know some Christians have strong concepts of election. I understand if such a concept is burdensome. I believe I became of the elect when I received Christ. If you receive Christ you too will be of the elect. There is a difference between being a religious "Christian" and being born again. Maybe you never were born again?
 
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I know some Christians have strong concepts of election. I understand if such a concept is burdensome. I believe I became of the elect when I received Christ. If you receive Christ you too will be of the elect. There is a difference between being a religious "Christian" and being born again. Maybe you never were born again?
I don't know if you are new to these discussions or not, so please forgive me for any ELI5 tone.

I DON'T believe in your god. I don't think any of it is real. I don't think the evidence allows for the conclusion that there is a god.

So, then what should I say about salvation, being born-again, etc.? Care to guess? Since I don't think it is real not only was I not born again, but you AREN'T born again. It isn't real.

If by the question you mean to ask whether I really did believe. Well, then, yes. I really did believe. I examined my beliefs and came to the conclusion that the evidence didn't warrant acceptance of the premises, the tenets, of Christianity, nor, indeed, of any religion.

I am more at peace now than when I was a Christian. I am more at rest and contentment without the idea of celestial being who wants to inform my footsteps. I have no desire for any gods and certainly not the Christian one.
 
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