Christianity has nothing to offer you while you're alive

[AV1611VET]

Did antebellum southern christians and pastors use the bible to justify slavery to their congregants.

Yes or no will do fine.

TBH I don't know.

But I'll take a guess and say YES.

 

[Ed1wolf]

This is a joke, right?

No, I am serious. It is a historical fact.

 

[zoidar]

I appreciate the tone you are taking. Too often, we non-believers are accused of being lazy, just wanting to sin, etc. If you actually think we are taking the easy road, you've nicely avoiding saying and it this point I'd agree you aren't even implying it. (Please don't prove me wrong.)

I was a believer for 44 years. (Others on this platform have similar stories.) When I left the faith, I was an elder in my church, married to a Christian woman (still) who is now the Children's minister at that church. I had raised my children to be Christian. I hosted and taught a Bible study in my home for about 6 or 7 years before I left the faith

Leading up to that point involved shedding of many tears. "Lord, I believe help thou mine unbelief." Any indication of God's existence would have done to keep me. But there was no still small voice; there was no rushing wind; there were no miracles; there was only silence. There are only so many times one can write a letter to the girl, far, far way, you assure me loves me who yet won't be bothered to write back.

Either the Christian god doesn't exist; or it doesn't want me. In any case, there may be a girl in Canada (I'm in the southern US), but I can't be bothered to believe her intermediary anymore.

When I left the faith, I called each elder separately and came out. I took the pastor out to dinner and explained. I approached each member of my home group (Bible study) who, I say this modestly, looked to me for spiritual guidance. In many case there were tears. I took my wife out to dinner (prior to aforementioned) allowing for the possibility she might leave me but hoping she wouldn't. (She didn't. We're still together now totaling 36 years.) As we drove home, I struggled to drive through my tears of relief. (Should've pulled over and let her drive.)

Then I gathered my children on the couch (sofa). I explained that I no longer believed in God and that I wouldn't be going to church, etc. They listened quietly. Then the eldest said, "Is it all right if we cry now?"

I was raised in this. My early days would accurately be described as fundamentalist, later, evangelical. I studied, taught, memorized scripture. I even had a hand in leading some "to the lord". I laid hands on people for healing. (None were.)

I broke the hearts of no few people and in doing so broke my own.

In the early days of my non-belief, at work I feared I could lose my job. To be fair, I was probably just nervous (southern US, as I said). But, 13 years on, while I don't make my position a secret, I still don't make my position explicitly obvious.

No, none of this was the easy way out.

44 years as a believer, that's a long time. I've been a believer for 11 years. I don't think your choice or road was easy, and as you say yourself it wasn't, I'm not to argue with that.

I started out as a Buddhist or spiritual seeker some 25 years ago, but I didn't find the answer in Buddhism. I had as a child a belief in God, maybe not that much in Jesus, but I respected him. So I asked God if Buddhism was the right way. All these things started to happen in my life, showing me I was on the wrong path. Like one day I prayed and the seconds after looking at an open newspaper, the article had the title "You are being tricked!". I took it as a sign that Buddhism was wrong. This is like one out of hundreds of things like this happening.

After having resisted what I believe was God calling me for many years, I finally started to believe. After work one day I gave my life to Jesus, and at that moment I experienced what the Bible say the new birth. It was an inward cleansing. I could not even take a bad word in my mouth anymore, I felt like a new born baby, like I've never done anything wrong my whole life. And I had a tremendeous peace in my heart, my seeking for meaning just instantly died. I had found or I was found. And now I love Jesus.

So the main reason you left faith was because you didn't see answered prayers?

 

[AV1611VET]

You have a good testimony, zoidar!

 

[Tinker Grey]

44 years as a believer, that's a long time. I've been a believer for 11 years. I don't think your choice or road was easy, and as you say yourself it wasn't, I'm not to argue with that.

I started out as a Buddhist or spiritual seeker some 25 years ago, but I didn't find the answer in Buddhism. I had as a child a belief in God, maybe not that much in Jesus, but I respected him. So I asked God if Buddhism was the right way. All these things started to happen in my life, showing me I was on the wrong path. Like one day I prayed and the seconds after looking at an open newspaper, the article had the title "You are being tricked!". I took it as a sign that Buddhism was wrong. This is like one out of hundreds of things like this happening.

After having resisted what I believe was God calling me for many years, I finally started to believe. After work one day I gave my life to Jesus, and at that moment I experienced what the Bible say the new birth. It was an inward cleansing. I could not even take a bad word in my mouth anymore, I felt like a new born baby, like I've never done anything wrong my whole life. And I had a tremendeous peace in my heart, my seeking for meaning just instantly died. I had found or I was found. And now I love Jesus.

So the main reason you left faith was because you didn't see answered prayers?

No. The main reason I left was that the evidence did not support my beliefs.

 

[zoidar]

No. The main reason I left was that the evidence did not support my beliefs.

Which were?

 

[Tinker Grey]

Which were?

??

All of it.

 

[AV1611VET]

No. The main reason I left was that the evidence did not support my beliefs.

The evidence doesn't support mine, either.

 

[zoidar]

??

All of it.

Can you be more specific?

 

[HitchSlap]

Can you be more specific?

For me, I applied ‘the outsiders test’ and realized Christianity was no different than all the other religions I already knew were false.

 

[zoidar]

For me, I applied ‘the outsiders test’ and realized Christianity was no different than all the other religions I already knew were false.

I don't know what 'the outsiders test' is. How did you know or how do you know all other religions are false?

 

[AV1611VET]

For me, I applied ‘the outsiders test’ and realized Christianity was no different than all the other religions I already knew were false.

When you 'went outside,' did ...

1. ... they lock you out?
2. ... you get lost?
3. ... you decided you liked it better where you were?

After all, one can only take so much joy of their salvation, tasting and seeing that the LORD is good, being enlightened, being partakers of the Holy Ghost, tasting the powers of the world to come, and having a Father in Heaven, a mansion, a family.

Forget that. If Theodore Kaczynski can go solo, so can I!

Right?

 

[Tinker Grey]

Can you be more specific?

No. Not really. I've heard probably close to all the arguments. Shoot, I've made most of the arguments. Though I've been on these boards for nearing 20 years the only thing that surprises me is how often apologists retreat to bad arguments.

 

[zoidar]

No. Not really. I've heard probably close to all the arguments. Shoot, I've made most of the arguments. Though I've been on these boards for nearing 20 years the only thing that surprises me is how often apologists retreat to bad arguments.

I don't really know where to start since I don't know what evidense you have of Christianity being false. But I guess you have heard of the moral argument for God?

 

[AV1611VET]

I don't know what 'the outsiders test' is.

If time will let one or not?

 

[HitchSlap]

I don't know what 'the outsiders test' is. How did you know or how do you know all other religions are false?

Outsiders test is using the same criteria that you judged other faiths to judge your own.

 

[Tinker Grey]

I don't know what 'the outsiders test' is. How did you know or how do you know all other religions are false?

I believe John Loftus first proposed it. He called it the "outsider's test for belief". As a Christian, you are an outsider to Islam. The apologetics of that faith is not convincing. You don't believe Mohammed flew to heaven on a winged horse, for example. As an outsider, you aren't really even tempted to try to believe it. It's just silly...because you're an outsider.

Now the OTB is for you imagine standing outside your faith and hearing apologetics. Can you really believe that?

I imagine you wouldn't find this convincing since you say you were outside and are now inside.

 

[Tinker Grey]

I don't really know where to start since I don't know what evidense you have of Christianity being false. But I guess you have heard of the moral argument for God?

Yes, of course. What do think is convincing about it?

 

[HitchSlap]

When you 'went outside,' did ...

1. ... they lock you out?
2. ... you get lost?
3. ... you decided you liked it better where you were?

After all, one can only take so much joy of their salvation, tasting and seeing that the LORD is good, being enlightened, being partakers of the Holy Ghost, tasting the powers of the world to come, and having a Father in Heaven, a mansion, a family.

Forget that. If Theodore Kaczynski can go solo, so can I!

Right?

Nah, nothing like that. I just became enlightened.

 

[HitchSlap]

I don't really know where to start since I don't know what evidense you have of Christianity being false. But I guess you have heard of the moral argument for God?

Sure. What’s so convincing about it to you?