Revelation and end times clarifications

You are not in the end times, you may not even be close or you might, but what is going on now, is not events that are spoken of in Revelation 7 and beyond.

And Revelation is concerned with the tribulation period (a 7 year period) and what is going on now has nothing to do with the tribulation. It is just lying governments functioning in satans kingdoms

Moonlight sonata said:

Not sure if this is the place, but I’m struggling with questions I have in my mind. So, it seems pretty clear to me we are currently seeing the end of times unfold right in front of our eyes. And it’s clear to me from the bible that God’s will is for all to be saved and that His plan extends to all generations. Yet I don’t know how this fits with the book of Revelation, which seems to me to indicate this last generation is pretty much lost (please correct me if I am wrong). My understanding from reading Revelation is that.. rich, poor, small and great will all be caused to take the mark (again, correct me if I am wrong). If so, where does this leave the children and babies, people with disabilities, elderly and frail of the last generation? And from what I can see from their globalist agendas, it’s going to be one hell of a mission to avoid the mark, especially with children in tow... I feel pretty sure that with the plans that the globalists seem to be trying to propose and implement, that if you try in any way to escape society, they will just drag you back in again (e.g their plans to track every single movement of every single person on every inch of the planet through a global satellite system). I just don’t get it...How is it fair that these evil globalists, truly evil evil people who live to openly and knowingly and willingly serve and worship evil, who know exactly what they are doing and who want to enslave mankind... can drag children and babies into their mess, along with the general population of people who are mostly decent people just trying to peacefully make an honest living on the lands in which they were born.. where is the fairness in all of this?? I feel so saddened by the thought of so many people going to hell, being dragged into a pit and snare by evil evil people. I haven’t decided if I believe in a rapture, and if it is real, whether it’s pre or post tribulation. Obviously this doesn’t help with my confusion here. Please help me understand, thanks.

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I never really thought of what would happen to the children during all of this. If God is going to lift up the church my guess is that the children that are without sin would be taken up also. Anybody left will have to sacrifice their life to earn a spot in heaven. It's going to be a tough time.

Moonlight sonata said:

Not sure if this is the place, but I’m struggling with questions I have in my mind. So, it seems pretty clear to me we are currently seeing the end of times unfold right in front of our eyes. And it’s clear to me from the bible that God’s will is for all to be saved and that His plan extends to all generations. Yet I don’t know how this fits with the book of Revelation, which seems to me to indicate this last generation is pretty much lost (please correct me if I am wrong). My understanding from reading Revelation is that.. rich, poor, small and great will all be caused to take the mark (again, correct me if I am wrong). If so, where does this leave the children and babies, people with disabilities, elderly and frail of the last generation? And from what I can see from their globalist agendas, it’s going to be one hell of a mission to avoid the mark, especially with children in tow... I feel pretty sure that with the plans that the globalists seem to be trying to propose and implement, that if you try in any way to escape society, they will just drag you back in again (e.g their plans to track every single movement of every single person on every inch of the planet through a global satellite system). I just don’t get it...How is it fair that these evil globalists, truly evil evil people who live to openly and knowingly and willingly serve and worship evil, who know exactly what they are doing and who want to enslave mankind... can drag children and babies into their mess, along with the general population of people who are mostly decent people just trying to peacefully make an honest living on the lands in which they were born.. where is the fairness in all of this?? I feel so saddened by the thought of so many people going to hell, being dragged into a pit and snare by evil evil people. I haven’t decided if I believe in a rapture, and if it is real, whether it’s pre or post tribulation. Obviously this doesn’t help with my confusion here. Please help me understand, thanks.

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The fact is that, that the beast is a part of God's plan. He will deceive those who want sin more than God.

2Th 2:9-12 When the wicked one appears, Satan will pretend to work all kinds of miracles, wonders, and signs. Lost people will be fooled by his evil deeds. They could be saved, but they will refuse to love the truth and accept it. So God will make sure that they are fooled into believing a lie. All of them will be punished, because they would rather do evil than believe the truth.

When he comes there will be a choice on the earth, serve the beast, who claims to be God. Or continue to serve Jesus. Those who serve Jesus will gain eternal life. Those who bend the knee to the beast will be spared his wrath on earth, but end up in hell.

Rev 13:5 -10 The beast was allowed to brag and claim to be God, and for forty-two months it was allowed to rule. The beast cursed God, and it cursed the name of God. It even cursed the place where God lives, as well as everyone who lives in heaven with God. It was allowed to fight against God's people and defeat them. It was also given authority over the people of every tribe, nation, language, and race. The beast was worshiped by everyone whose name wasn't written before the time of creation in the book of the Lamb who was killed. If you have ears, then listen! If you are doomed to be captured, you will be captured. If you are doomed to be killed by a sword, you will be killed by a sword. This means that God's people must learn to endure and be faithful!

As for children, I know many stories of times that God has made himself known to little children. They too will have the choice, listen to Jesus, or rebel and follow the beast. God will make himself know to all. NO one will perish with out the chance or knowledge of God.

People with disabilities will have a hard time, as will the young, and old. But God can minimise the actual suffering. He will not enable any man woman or child to be tested belong what they can cope with. Until that day comes none of us know, what will happen.

Moonlight sonata said:

Not sure if this is the place, but I’m struggling with questions I have in my mind. So, it seems pretty clear to me we are currently seeing the end of times unfold right in front of our eyes. And it’s clear to me from the bible that God’s will is for all to be saved and that His plan extends to all generations. Yet I don’t know how this fits with the book of Revelation, which seems to me to indicate this last generation is pretty much lost (please correct me if I am wrong). My understanding from reading Revelation is that.. rich, poor, small and great will all be caused to take the mark (again, correct me if I am wrong). If so, where does this leave the children and babies, people with disabilities, elderly and frail of the last generation? And from what I can see from their globalist agendas, it’s going to be one hell of a mission to avoid the mark, especially with children in tow... I feel pretty sure that with the plans that the globalists seem to be trying to propose and implement, that if you try in any way to escape society, they will just drag you back in again (e.g their plans to track every single movement of every single person on every inch of the planet through a global satellite system). I just don’t get it...How is it fair that these evil globalists, truly evil evil people who live to openly and knowingly and willingly serve and worship evil, who know exactly what they are doing and who want to enslave mankind... can drag children and babies into their mess, along with the general population of people who are mostly decent people just trying to peacefully make an honest living on the lands in which they were born.. where is the fairness in all of this?? I feel so saddened by the thought of so many people going to hell, being dragged into a pit and snare by evil evil people. I haven’t decided if I believe in a rapture, and if it is real, whether it’s pre or post tribulation. Obviously this doesn’t help with my confusion here. Please help me understand, thanks.

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You might find this forum to be more help.
Eschatology - Endtimes & Prophecy Forum

Moonlight sonata said:

Not sure if this is the place, but I’m struggling with questions I have in my mind. So, it seems pretty clear to me we are currently seeing the end of times unfold right in front of our eyes.

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Agreed.

And it’s clear to me from the bible that God’s will is for all to be saved and that His plan extends to all generations.

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Agreed.

Yet I don’t know how this fits with the book of Revelation, which seems to me to indicate this last generation is pretty much lost (please correct me if I am wrong). My understanding from reading Revelation is that.. rich, poor, small and great will all be caused to take the mark (again, correct me if I am wrong). If so, where does this leave the children and babies, people with disabilities, elderly and frail of the last generation?

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No, Revelation does show there are people who do not take the mark or worship the beast. Notice that making the mark of the beast is coupled with worshiping the beast. There is a major issue of worship that is critical in the last days. Read Revelation 14 and you will see the first angel's message is to worship God and the other 2 angel's messages are to not worship the beast and accept the mark of the beast and what will happen to those who do. And we are shown in verse 12 the characteristics of those who do not.

And from what I can see from their globalist agendas, it’s going to be one hell of a mission to avoid the mark, especially with children in tow... I feel pretty sure that with the plans that the globalists seem to be trying to propose and implement, that if you try in any way to escape society, they will just drag you back in again (e.g their plans to track every single movement of every single person on every inch of the planet through a global satellite system). I just don’t get it...How is it fair that these evil globalists, truly evil evil people who live to openly and knowingly and willingly serve and worship evil, who know exactly what they are doing and who want to enslave mankind... can drag children and babies into their mess, along with the general population of people who are mostly decent people just trying to peacefully make an honest living on the lands in which they were born.. where is the fairness in all of this?? I feel so saddened by the thought of so many people going to hell, being dragged into a pit and snare by evil evil people. I haven’t decided if I believe in a rapture, and if it is real, whether it’s pre or post tribulation. Obviously this doesn’t help with my confusion here. Please help me understand, thanks.

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What do you consider the mark of the beast to be. That has a lot to do with how your will view this.

Moonlight sonata said:

Not sure if this is the place, but I’m struggling with questions I have in my mind. So, it seems pretty clear to me we are currently seeing the end of times unfold right in front of our eyes. And it’s clear to me from the bible that God’s will is for all to be saved and that His plan extends to all generations. Yet I don’t know how this fits with the book of Revelation, which seems to me to indicate this last generation is pretty much lost (please correct me if I am wrong). My understanding from reading Revelation is that.. rich, poor, small and great will all be caused to take the mark (again, correct me if I am wrong). If so, where does this leave the children and babies, people with disabilities, elderly and frail of the last generation? And from what I can see from their globalist agendas, it’s going to be one hell of a mission to avoid the mark, especially with children in tow... I feel pretty sure that with the plans that the globalists seem to be trying to propose and implement, that if you try in any way to escape society, they will just drag you back in again (e.g their plans to track every single movement of every single person on every inch of the planet through a global satellite system). I just don’t get it...How is it fair that these evil globalists, truly evil evil people who live to openly and knowingly and willingly serve and worship evil, who know exactly what they are doing and who want to enslave mankind... can drag children and babies into their mess, along with the general population of people who are mostly decent people just trying to peacefully make an honest living on the lands in which they were born.. where is the fairness in all of this?? I feel so saddened by the thought of so many people going to hell, being dragged into a pit and snare by evil evil people. I haven’t decided if I believe in a rapture, and if it is real, whether it’s pre or post tribulation. Obviously this doesn’t help with my confusion here. Please help me understand, thanks.

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There's a lot to unpack here, it might be helpful to first understand that there is a diversity of views among Christians concerning that branch of theology we call eschatology. It seems that the view which has influenced you is the rather modern, and unfortunately popular, view known as Dispensationalism. A broad system of reading the Bible that includes ideas such as a seven year tribulation and the rapture.

I mention this, because while popular (in terms of being popularized through books, movies, music, and proponents tending to attracting a lot of attention to themselves) is in fact something that exists only on the fringes of Christianity broadly speaking.

And because of the widespread practice of endless speculation that occurs, just about everything that happens in the world (or which some people simply think is happening due to their own conspiracy theories) ends up being evidence that we are in "the end times".

But here's something important to keep in mind, Scripture consistently talks about us being in the "Last Days" since Jesus' first coming two thousand years ago. The author of the Hebrews says, "but in these last days God has spoken to us through His Son".

When will the end come? Simply put, we don't know. Jesus Himself is abundantly clear that His return is something we will not know, "Of that day and hour no one knows". The Lord will return when we do not expect it. He describes His coming, and the future judgment, by describing it being like the days of Noah before the flood, people getting married, raising families, going to work when suddenly, without warning, the flood came. Some completely misunderstand Jesus' point when they read this, the comparison to the days of Noah is that people had no idea that the flood was coming, not that things will be immeasurably horrible.

The truth is the Lord could return ten minutes from now. Or the Lord could return in ten thousand years from now. We don't know.

As far as "the tribulation" goes, most Christians simply understand that tribulation has been part of Christian life since the beginning. Jesus in fact says, "In this world you will have tribulation, but be courageous, I have conquered the world." Most Christians don't make an attempt to string together disparate and unconnected passages of Scripture in order to create some kind of "end times time table". We simply believe what has been confessed from the beginning, that the Lord will come again one day, the dead will rise, and God will make all things new.

Whatever the future holds, you can trust in God. Jesus tells us not to worry about tomorrow because today has enough evil to worry about. Jesus teaches us in the Parable of the Talents that we shouldn't be idly waiting, but should be investing our time and resources into doing the Lord's work--loving others, caring for one another, clothing the naked, being loving friends, parents, children, siblings, whatever our station in life is in relation to others.

Anyone who tries to sell you a narrative about how the world will end, and that it is right around the corner, is a snake oil salesman with nothing to offer. The Lord Himself says not to believe those who say, "He is over there" or "He is here". The Lord will return when He returns. Kingdoms will rise and kingdoms will fall, nations will go to war. Governments come and governments fail. Disease, earthquakes, and people being awful to one another is nothing new, it's been going on longer than history even records. So don't let those things convince you the end is around the corner, because these aren't signs of the end, they're just the birth pangs of a world that is perishing, and has been perishing for a long time. But God, in His mercy, is the God of our salvation, and indeed, who will one day make all things new.

As for right now, go and love your neighbor.

-CryptoLutheran

This is the best series on Revelation bible studies i've heard so far. The preacher has just finished it with his last and 7th study.

Newtownabbey Free Presbyterian Church

I may lean a little different on this one, yet.
But if I cast out demons by the finger of God, then the kingdom of God *has come upon you.*
(Has - Meaning already, past tense) Luke 11:20
The Law and the Prophets were proclaimed until John. Since that time, the good news of the kingdom of God is being preached, and everyone is **forcing their way into it.** (It must be attainable now, and has been... You can't force your way into something that isn't made ready yet.) Luke 16:16

Especially this one:
“The kingdom of God is not coming with **signs to be observed;** nor will they say, ‘Look, here it is!’ or, ‘There it is!’ For behold, the kingdom of God is in your midst.”

I'm genuinely growing more and more in my belief that the Kingdom of God has came, is present and available. It isn't observable, much like the wind.. You can't see it but you can see the effects of it.

This may be abstract though, maybe not. I've had pretty strong conviction over the last few months that the Kingdom of God is something that "came near" when Jesus sent out 2x2 disciples, the Kingdom of God was also in their midst while he walked the earth, then post resurrection; lastly the forcing their way into it. It must be present or complete if some are forcing their way into it.

Lastly:
Now in those days John the Baptist *came, preaching in the wilderness of Judea, saying, “Repent, for the **kingdom of heaven is at hand.”** That was John giving prophecy in the desert... Matthew 3:1

I don't believe it is readily or yet observeable as what we think of "observeable"; but its the Spirit that convicts us to this truth. Its also like how we're likened unto Jesus as the "Bride" for Him, yet many of us are men. Would that be odd for men to be united with man? Not necessarily; I believe these things are present and current but not completed (since we can't see it yet). Though through my personal relationship i've "seen" it, similar to those of us who "Hear" God but we don't actually hear an audible voice.

So I believe the Kingdom of God was established when Jesus came, and has been since.

PROPHECYKID said:

Agreed.


Agreed.



No, Revelation does show there are people who do not take the mark or worship the beast. Notice that making the mark of the beast is coupled with worshiping the beast. There is a major issue of worship that is critical in the last days. Read Revelation 14 and you will see the first angel's message is to worship God and the other 2 angel's messages are to not worship the beast and accept the mark of the beast and what will happen to those who do. And we are shown in verse 12 the characteristics of those who do not.



What do you consider the mark of the beast to be. That has a lot to do with how your will view this.

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The beast has to be the television, nothing but lies, lewdness, deceit and utter death spewing from it. If you were 2000 years ago and saw the TV or a theater it could be a beast sure... But the real key for me was the "mark of the beast".

The mark of the beast, to me... Is cell phones. It's why we're told to "look up, for the Kingdom of God is at hand" because we're constantly looking down. I mean seeing someone stand far off with a small version attached to your wrist (hand) is obviously the mark, one wouldn't be able to see a microchip in the wrist.

I've since removed both from my life, I realized how much more I've gleaned in life from it. Those two really offered Zero benefit to life.

Plus the image of the beast can be manipulated to anything now and people can't discern the difference. For example with COVID... If no one had a TV no one would know of this corona virus thing.. Its all perpetuated via media, tv and such..

Hence the "Seals on their forehead" for Revelations; I agree the seal may not be visible as the image and the mark will be... Since it indicates the Kingdom of Heaven which we now have access too.

Also we're choosing to wantonly disregard the creation and world he gave us, for a much lesser and one with deceit. "consider the lilies of the field, they neither toil nor spin..." and Solomon's "Consider the ant" in proverbs.