Worship is the Core Issue as we see in Revelation

[SabbathBlessings]

SabbathBlessings said:

but not to disputes over doubtful things.

The scripture doesn't say that.

Yes ,the scripture does say this verbatim, its how the chapter opens up

14 Receive one who is weak in the faith, but not to disputes over doubtful things.

What I'm persuaded everyday Holy would I be wrong?

Yes, only God can make something holy, we are not God.

Was the Galatians laboring the Law?
Gal 4:8 Howbeit then, when ye knew not God, ye did service unto them which by nature are no gods.
Gal 4:9 But now, after that ye have known God, or rather are known of God, how turn ye again to the weak and beggarly elements, whereunto ye desire again to be in bondage?
Gal 4:10 Ye observe days, and months, and times, and years.
Gal 4:11 I am afraid of you, lest I have bestowed upon you labour in vain.

Again, not one mention of the seventh day Sabbath commandment. You're confusing the annual feast day ordinances with the weekly seventh day Sabbath commandment.

Are you saying Jesus is not God and his teaching to Paul is in error.

Never once said that or even thought it. Paul does not contradict the teachings of Jesus. If you think he does, you might be one of the people Peter is referring to 2 Peter 3:16 because Paul was a servant to Jesus and Jesus commissioned the apostles to teach everything He commanded. Mat 28:18-20 Paul never went away from the teachings of Jesus. Jesus told us not to break the least of these commandments quoting directly from the Ten Mat 5:19-30 and Paul taught what matters is keeping the commandments of God 1 Cor 7:19 so there is many misunderstandings of Paul and the law, but Paul never taught something different than Jesus if read in context.

I don't change scripture and read it plainly not adding or taking away.

Good, we shouldn't, scripture will interpret itself if we allow it to.

One judges one day above another; another judges every day alike. Let each be fully persuaded in his own mind. (Rom. 14:5)

And the Sabbath commandment in all of Romans 14 is not mentioned once, so why add what is not there. What man esteems is not what God esteems. If God was going to do away with one of His commandments it would be just as clear as He wrote and spoke it.

I'm fully persuaded in my mind that every day is alike.

You're free to believe anything you want. I choose to believe God and His every Word. Mat 4:4

Rom 14:6
He that regardeth the day, regardeth it unto the Lord; and he that regardeth not the day, to the Lord he doth not regard it. He that eateth, eateth to the Lord, for he giveth God thanks; and he that eateth not, to the Lord he eateth not, and giveth God thanks.

Yeah, not one mention of food in the Sabbath commandment, thanks for reminding us of the context that its not referring to one of God's commandments and adding in to a chapter that does not once mention the Sabbath I believe is only hurting oneself in the long run as there is no scripture in all of God's Word that we can break one of God's commandments. The Sabbath is a commandment of God kept by God, Jesus, the apostles and His faithful followers. Seems like to group to be in, especially since we are told to follow Jesus as He is our example 1 John 2:6

 

[Gary K]

The scripture doesn't say that. What I'm persuaded everyday Holy would I be wrong?

Was the Galatians laboring the Law?
Gal 4:8 Howbeit then, when ye knew not God, ye did service unto them which by nature are no gods.
Gal 4:9 But now, after that ye have known God, or rather are known of God, how turn ye again to the weak and beggarly elements, whereunto ye desire again to be in bondage?
Gal 4:10 Ye observe days, and months, and times, and years.
Gal 4:11 I am afraid of you, lest I have bestowed upon you labour in vain.

Are you saying Jesus is not God and his teaching to Paul is in error. I don't change scripture and read it plainly not adding or taking away.
One judges one day above another; another judges every day alike. Let each be fully persuaded in his own mind. (Rom. 14:5)


I'm fully persuaded in my mind that every day is alike. Further;
Rom 14:6
He that regardeth the day, regardeth it unto the Lord; and he that regardeth not the day, to the Lord he doth not regard it. He that eateth, eateth to the Lord, for he giveth God thanks; and he that eateth not, to the Lord he eateth not, and giveth God thanks.

You misread Galatians unless you think Paul contradicts himself within the same letter, and thus Romans too.

Galatians 5: 19 Now the works of the flesh are manifest, which are these; Adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lasciviousness,
20 Idolatry, witchcraft, hatred, variance, emulations, wrath, strife, seditions, heresies,
21 Envyings, murders, drunkenness, revellings, and such like: of the which I tell you before, as I have also told you in time past, that they which do such things shall not inherit the kingdom of God.
22 But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith,
23 Meekness, temperance: against such there is no law.

Did you get that? Paul tells us that the fruit of the Spirit in our life violates no law. No law does not exclude the 10 commandments. Thus we can keep the 10 commandments. All 10 of them right down to the letter of the law. He also points out his own 2nd definition of sin is taken care of by the fruit of the Spirit: faith. Whatsoever is not of faith is sin.

Paul takes away all excuses for sinning in Galatians 5 by pointing out that God gives us the power to keep all the commandments. In doing that he removes all excuses for not keeping the Sabbath.

 

[Laodicean60]

14 Receive one who is weak in the faith, but not to disputes over doubtful things.

It's only doubtful when those who bring Old Testament laws to the NT believers. OT was given to the Jews to abide by. I won't be persuaded.
One judges one day above another; another judges every day alike. Let each be fully persuaded in his own mind. (Rom. 14:5)

 

[SabbathBlessings]

It's only doubtful when those who bring Old Testament laws to the NT believers. OT was given to the Jews to abide by.

Where did you find the text that NT laws deletes OT laws? God wrote His laws in our hearts in the NC instead of deleting them. Jesus and the apostles sure didn't teach not to keep God's law.

Just a few of many examples...

Jesus speaking
Math 15: 3 He answered and said to them, “Why do you also transgress the commandment of God because of your tradition? 4 For God commanded, saying, ‘Honor your father and your mother’ (direct quote from the Ten Commandments Exo 20:12); and, ‘He who curses father or mother, let him be put to death.’ 5 But you say, ‘Whoever says to his father or mother, “Whatever profit you might have received from me is a gift to God”— 6 then he need not honor his father [a]or mother.’ Thus you have made the [b]commandment of God of no effect by your tradition. 7 Hypocrites! Well did Isaiah prophesy about you, saying:

8 ‘These people [c]draw near to Me with their mouth,
And honor Me with their lips,
But their heart is far from Me.
9 And in vain they worship Me,
Teaching as doctrines the commandments of men.’ ”

Paul speaking

Romans 7:7 What shall we say then? Is the law sin? Certainly not! On the contrary, I would not have known sin except through the law. For I would not have known covetousness unless the law had said, “You shall not covet.” Again taken directly from the Ten Commandments

Luke speaking

Luke 23:56 Then they returned and prepared spices and fragrant oils. And they rested on the Sabbath according to the commandment.

James speaking

James 2:10 For whoever shall keep the whole law, and yet stumble in one point, he is guilty of all. 11 For He who said, “Do not commit adultery,” also said, “Do not murder.” Now if you do not commit adultery, but you do murder, you have become a transgressor of the law. 12 So speak and so do as those who will be judged by the law of liberty. Again quoting from the Ten-breaking one is like breaking them all

John speaking

One of the law scriptures of the bible...

Revelation 22:14 Blessed are those who do His commandments, that they may have the right to the tree of life, and may enter through the gates into the city. 15 But outside are dogs and sorcerers (Breaking commandment #1 Exodus 20:3) and sexually immoral (breaking commandment #7 Exodus 20:14) and murderers (breaking commandment #6 Exodus 20:13) and idolaters (breaking commandment #2 Exodus 20:4-6), and whoever loves and practices a lie (breaking # 9 Exodus 20:16 or any of the commandments 1 John 2:4

This is just a small sample of how not all the OT laws have been deleted in the NT according to the very Words of Jesus who also warns us not to break or teach others to break the least of these commandments Mat 5:19-30

I would sure hate to be wrong about something God deemed so important.

 

[Leaf473]

About the opening of Romans 14, the Greek can be translated various ways. Here's the New Living Translation's take on it

Bible Gateway passage: Romans 14:1 - New Living Translation

The Danger of Criticism - Accept other believers who are weak in faith, and don’t argue with them about what they think is right or wrong.

www.biblegateway.com

 

[oikonomia]

I never feel uneasy keeping the Sabbath. It's joy to me. I love going to church on Sabbath.

That's wondeful.
Let each be persuaded in his own mind.

. . . Let each be fully persuaded in his own mind.
He who regards that day, regards it to the Lord; . . . (vs. 5b,6a)

Isn't Romans chapter 14 wonderful and practical too?

For none of us lives to himself, and none dies to himself;
For whether we live, we live to the Lord, and whether we die,
we die to the Lord. Therefore whether we live or we die, we are the Lord’s. (vs. 7,8)

 

[Laodicean60]

James 2:10 For whoever shall keep the whole law, and yet stumble in one point, he is guilty of all. 11 For He who said, “Do not commit adultery,” also said, “Do not murder.” Now if you do not commit adultery, but you do murder, you have become a transgressor of the law. 12 So speak and so do as those who will be judged by the law of liberty. Again quoting from the Ten-breaking one is like breaking them all

I know the guys in your church follows the WHOLE law.

Gal 3:6
Even as Abraham believed God, and it was accounted to him for righteousness.

Gal 3:7
Know ye therefore that they which are of faith, the same are the children of Abraham.

Gal 3:8
And the scripture, foreseeing that God would justify the heathen through faith, preached before the gospel unto Abraham, saying, In thee shall all nations be blessed.

Gal 3:9
So then they which be of faith are blessed with faithful Abraham.

Gal 3:10
For as many as are of the works of the law are under the curse: for it is written, Cursed is every one that continueth not in all things which are written in the book of the law to do them.

Gal 3:11
But that no man is justified by the law in the sight of God, it is evident: for, The just shall live by faith.

Gal 3:12
And the law is not of faith: but, The man that doeth them shall live in them.

Gal 3:13
Christ hath redeemed us from the curse of the law, being made a curse for us: for it is written, Cursed is every one that hangeth on a tree:

 

[SabbathBlessings]

I know the guys in your church follows the WHOLE law.

Gal 3:6
Even as Abraham believed God, and it was accounted to him for righteousness.

Gal 3:7
Know ye therefore that they which are of faith, the same are the children of Abraham.

Gal 3:8
And the scripture, foreseeing that God would justify the heathen through faith, preached before the gospel unto Abraham, saying, In thee shall all nations be blessed.

Gal 3:9
So then they which be of faith are blessed with faithful Abraham.

Gal 3:10
For as many as are of the works of the law are under the curse: for it is written, Cursed is every one that continueth not in all things which are written in the book of the law to do them.

Gal 3:11
But that no man is justified by the law in the sight of God, it is evident: for, The just shall live by faith.

Gal 3:12
And the law is not of faith: but, The man that doeth them shall live in them.

Gal 3:13
Christ hath redeemed us from the curse of the law, being made a curse for us: for it is written, Cursed is every one that hangeth on a tree:

The curse of the law is death- the wages of sin is death Rom 6:23 , Jesus gives us another option through faith we can believe in Him and go to Him when we sin, but we too much die of sin 1 Corinthians 15:31 Ephesians 4:22 Romans 6 and put on Christ who is without sin. Our salvation is from sin, not in sin. Mat 1:21 Those with faith trust what Jesus teaches and does them. James 1:22 James 2:14-26

 

[Gary K]

I know the guys in your church follows the WHOLE law.

Gal 3:6
Even as Abraham believed God, and it was accounted to him for righteousness.

Gal 3:7
Know ye therefore that they which are of faith, the same are the children of Abraham.

Gal 3:8
And the scripture, foreseeing that God would justify the heathen through faith, preached before the gospel unto Abraham, saying, In thee shall all nations be blessed.

Gal 3:9
So then they which be of faith are blessed with faithful Abraham.

Gal 3:10
For as many as are of the works of the law are under the curse: for it is written, Cursed is every one that continueth not in all things which are written in the book of the law to do them.

Gal 3:11
But that no man is justified by the law in the sight of God, it is evident: for, The just shall live by faith.

Gal 3:12
And the law is not of faith: but, The man that doeth them shall live in them.

Gal 3:13
Christ hath redeemed us from the curse of the law, being made a curse for us: for it is written, Cursed is every one that hangeth on a tree:

So you too have Paul contradicting himself.

Galatians 5: 19 Now the works of the flesh are manifest, which are these; Adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lasciviousness,
20 Idolatry, witchcraft, hatred, variance, emulations, wrath, strife, seditions, heresies,
21 Envyings, murders, drunkenness, revellings, and such like: of the which I tell you before, as I have also told you in time past, that they which do such things shall not inherit the kingdom of God.
22 But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith,
23 Meekness, temperance: against such there is no law.

Did you catch that? We will not inherit the kingdom of God if we break the law. However Paul has really good news for us. The fruit of the Spirit in our live breaks no law. That no law includes the 10 commandments. That means the power of God enables us to keep the law of God.

Paul also tells us faith is another fruit of the Spirit is faith. That means Paul has just said that both definitions of sin are solved by the fruit of the Spirit as whatsoever is not of faith is sin.

Therefore we can keep the Sabbath day holy as well as Jesus' expansion of the meaning of the 10 commandments in the sermon on the mount.

 

[Laodicean60]

So you too have Paul contradicting himself.

Please stop your nonsense. That will come with age.

 

[Gary K]

Please stop your nonsense. That will come with age.

Nonsense? Scripture is nonsense? Not in my book. I pity you if you truly think that.

Btw, I'm 70. When do you think I'll be old enough to outgrow nonsense.

 

[Laodicean60]

Nonsense? Scripture is nonsense? Not in my book. I pity you if you truly think that.

Btw, I'm 70. When do you think I'll be old enough to outgrow nonsense.

Probably never.

 

[Gary K]

Probably never.

Well that's one man's opinion.

I'll stick with what I know to be true. God has worked too many miracles in my life for me to ever doubt my beliefs. Has your guardian angel ever spoken to you? My has to me, twice. He also picked me up and moved me out of the way before I was run over when I was in the 2nd grade. He also saved my live life another time too. About 2 or 3 in the morning after a day of drinking and smoking dope a buddy and I picked up a couple of women and went for a drive out in the country. I came to a 90 degree corner and decided I could swing wide into it and swing wide out of it. Little did I know an irrigation culvert was plugged and at least a half inch of water running across the road. Half way through the corner the car hydroplaned and back end of the cat started to pass the back end. The ditch was on the outside of the road. If I had left the road we would have hit the ditch and rolled. I would most likely have killed people in that rollover and completely ruined my life too.

I had made a very bad decision during my crazy years and when I was rebaptised the devil came to claim his own. God rescued me from that too. Now if you think all those miracles happened years ago I can tell you miracles have been happening in my life on a daily basis for the last year and a half. God has been building my faith during that time at an incredible rate.

 

[reddogs]

I totally disagree with the premise of the thread. Worshipping God is of upmost importance just as the opening thread indicated, but tying our worship to a one day ceremony is wrong. The Sabbath was not made for Israel to be a special day of worship It was made for Israel to rest and reflect on creation and how God led them out of slavery in Egypt. The point should be that we worship God equally today and every day.

No, not for Israel but for man, it was a memorial of Creation as you can see its repeated over and over in worship and praise to God..

Nehemiah 9:6
Thou, even thou, art Lord alone; thou hast made heaven, the heaven of heavens, with all their host, the earth, and all things that are therein, the seas, and all that is therein, and thou preservest them all; and the host of heaven worshippeth thee.

Acts 4:24
And when they heard that, they lifted up their voice to God with one accord, and said, Lord, thou art God, which hast made heaven, and earth, and the sea, and all that in them is:

Acts 14:15
And saying, Sirs, why do ye these things? We also are men of like passions with you, and preach unto you that ye should turn from these vanities unto the living God, which made heaven, and earth, and the sea, and all things that are therein:

Revelation 5:13
And every creature which is in heaven, and on the earth, and under the earth, and such as are in the sea, and all that are in them, heard I saying, Blessing, and honour, and glory, and power, be unto him that sitteth upon the throne, and unto the Lamb for ever andever.

Revelation 10:6
And sware by him that liveth for ever and ever, who created heaven, and the things that therein are, and the earth, and the things that therein are, and the sea, andthe things which are therein, that there should be time no longer:

Revelation 10:8
And the voice which I heard from heaven spake unto me again, and said, Go and take the little book which is open in the hand of the angel which standeth upon the sea and upon the earth.

Revelation 14:7
Saying with a loud voice, Fear God, and give glory to him; for the hour of his judgment is come: and worship him that made heaven, and earth, and the sea, and the fountains of waters.

 

[Leaf473]

Well that's one man's opinion.

I'll stick with what I know to be true. God has worked too many miracles in my life for me to ever doubt my beliefs. Has your guardian angel ever spoken to you? My has to me, twice. He also picked me up and moved me out of the way before I was run over when I was in the 2nd grade. He also saved my live life another time too. About 2 or 3 in the morning after a day of drinking and smoking dope a buddy and I picked up a couple of women and went for a drive out in the country. I came to a 90 degree corner and decided I could swing wide into it and swing wide out of it. Little did I know an irrigation culvert was plugged and at least a half inch of water running across the road. Half way through the corner the car hydroplaned and back end of the cat started to pass the back end. The ditch was on the outside of the road. If I had left the road we would have hit the ditch and rolled. I would most likely have killed people in that rollover and completely ruined my life too.

I had made a very bad decision during my crazy years and when I was rebaptised the devil came to claim his own. God rescued me from that too. Now if you think all those miracles happened years ago I can tell you miracles have been happening in my life on a daily basis for the last year and a half. God has been building my faith during that time at an incredible rate.

That's awesome, my man, and I mean that sincerely

I've had similar miracle experiences. I know a lady who was a Pentecostal minister who had numerous Angel visits. The Catholic Church claims Eucharistic miracles.

I'm happy to talk more about miracles and beliefs, if you wish. If so, we may wish to move to a different place

 

[Laodicean60]

That's awesome, my man, and I mean that sincerely

I've had similar miracle experiences. I know a lady who was a Pentecostal minister who had numerous Angel visits. The Catholic Church claims Eucharistic miracles.

I'm happy to talk more about miracles and beliefs, if you wish. If so, we may wish to move to a different place

I have had miracles in my life through in the areas of healing and an thunderous audible voice.

 

[reddogs]

Are you saying that if God wrote something, then we should be sure to follow it. But if he spoke something, then we don't have to follow it?

Bible Gateway passage: Leviticus 1:1-2 - New American Standard Bible

The Law of Burnt Offerings - Now the LORD called to Moses and spoke to him from the tent of meeting, saying, “Speak to the sons of Israel and say to them, ‘When anyone of you brings an offering to the LORD, you shall bring your offering of livestock from the herd or the flock.

www.biblegateway.com

When you have it in writing direct from the source, there is no changing or mistaking what was said, and as you can see thats a issue..

 

[Bob S]

No, not for Israel but for man, it was a memorial of Creation as you can see its repeated over and over in worship and praise to God..

If as you indicate the Sabbath was made for man, how do you explain that the remainder of the populated World never either heard of it or were never prompted by God to observe it? How do you explain all of the verses in the New Testament that tell all mankind we are not under the Law? I am sure you have read the verses I and others have presented that tell us we are not under the 10 commandments which contained the Sabbath requirement.

Nehemiah 9:6
Thou, even thou, art Lord alone; thou hast made heaven, the heaven of heavens, with all their host, the earth, and all things that are therein, the seas, and all that is therein, and thou preservest them all; and the host of heaven worshippeth thee.

Interesting verse reddogs, but it doesn't prove anything. now does it. If you are trying to use that verse to tell us the Sabbath is perpetual then what about all the other commands that God created and gave to Israel? Are they too perpetual? If not why not?

Acts 4:24
And when they heard that, they lifted up their voice to God with one accord, and said, Lord, thou art God, which hast made heaven, and earth, and the sea, and all that in them is:

Another great verse and I ask the same questions as above.

Acts 14:15
And saying, Sirs, why do ye these things? We also are men of like passions with you, and preach unto you that ye should turn from these vanities unto the living God, which made heaven, and earth, and the sea, and all things that are therein:

Same

Revelation 5:13
And every creature which is in heaven, and on the earth, and under the earth, and such as are in the sea, and all that are in them, heard I saying, Blessing, and honour, and glory, and power, be unto him that sitteth upon the throne, and unto the Lamb for ever andever.

Are you just picking verses out of random? They certainly do not add to your premise that we are to keep a special day.

Revelation 10:6
And sware by him that liveth for ever and ever, who created heaven, and the things that therein are, and the earth, and the things that therein are, and the sea, andthe things which are therein, that there should be time no longer:

Revelation 10:8
And the voice which I heard from heaven spake unto me again, and said, Go and take the little book which is open in the hand of the angel which standeth upon the sea and upon the earth.

Revelation 14:7
Saying with a loud voice, Fear God, and give glory to him; for the hour of his judgment is come: and worship him that made heaven, and earth, and the sea, and the fountains of waters.

Do we absolutely need a a special day to worship the Creator and creation? I don't see any parallels in your post.

Did God create the 7th day? My belief is that He created everything in 6 days. The day after all creation He rested from His creation. He alone rested according to scripture. How does the SDA church come up with the idea that Adam and Eve also rested and kept the Seventh-day Holy thereafter. Scripture indicates that only the day after creation was made Holy not succeeding 7th days. Adventists get their cue from Ellen White on he subject. Ellen wrote so many false statements that t I have no faith in anything she wrote.

 

[Leaf473]

When you have it in writing direct from the source, there is no changing or mistaking what was said, and as you can see thats a issue..

Do you believe Moses changed or was mistaken about what God said to him at the doorway of the tent of meeting?

 

[reddogs]

If as you indicate the Sabbath was made for man, how do you explain that the remainder of the populated World never either heard of it or were never prompted by God to observe it? How do you explain all of the verses in the New Testament that tell all mankind we are not under the Law? I am sure you have read the verses I and others have presented that tell us we are not under the 10 commandments which contained the Sabbath requirement.

Interesting verse reddogs, but it doesn't prove anything. now does it. If you are trying to use that verse to tell us the Sabbath is perpetual then what about all the other commands that God created and gave to Israel? Are they too perpetual? If not why not?

Another great verse and I ask the same questions as above.


Same

Are you just picking verses out of random? They certainly do not add to your premise that we are to keep a special day.

Do we absolutely need a a special day to worship the Creator and creation? I don't see any parallels in your post.

Did God create the 7th day? My belief is that He created everything in 6 days. The day after all creation He rested from His creation. He alone rested according to scripture. How does the SDA church come up with the idea that Adam and Eve also rested and kept the Seventh-day Holy thereafter. Scripture indicates that only the day after creation was made Holy not succeeding 7th days. Adventists get their cue from Ellen White on he subject. Ellen wrote so many false statements that t I have no faith in anything she wrote.

I think the world did know...

The Sabbath Across the Centuries (Chapter 11)

Selected quotes about the Sabbath from the 1st through the 19th centuries show that the seventh-day Sabbath has been kept by various groups for thousands of years.

www.projectrestore.com