How can we know if we are right?

JohnB445 said:

I understand some will say "if it's in the Bible".

But then how can we know we are not deceived by what we think the verse means?

You will get 100 confusing and contradictory answers for any topic from a professing Christian's answer.

This is what keeps me double-minded because they keep confusing me.

I'm getting to the point where I'm just go to trust in my own consciousness.

And if I am wrong, well God have mercy on me for being stupid.

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John, my takeaway from your post here is that you are perfectly willing to be saved, so to speak. And you want to further explore God's word in order to become more sanctified, more like Christ. But, as you delve further into the Word you are troubled by all the different interpretations of Scripture. So it spreads doubt in your mind.

The reason you are troubled is because you have heard so many who have said, "I let Scripture interpret Scripture," or some similar thing; yet their interpretation is 180-degrees opposite of the next guy's interpretation, but who says the same thing about how he interprets Scripture.

Here's the thing. God is not the author of confusion. Every word in Scripture is there for a reason and for our learning. God doesn't seed His Word with contradictions. If you come across two verses that appear to be in a contradiction with each other consider it a blessing. As you dig further into Scripture to solve the "contradiction" you'll be that much more knowledgeable about God's Word. Every single verse in Scripture has one -- and only one -- correct interpretation. Period.

So, how do you know?

That's where hermeneutics comes in. Hermeneutics is the theory of interpretation. Where you are on the hermeneutical scale will determine how you interpret God's word.

Think of hermeneutics as being a line. On one end, let's say the left side, you'll find those who rely mostly on the allegorical interpretations of God's Word. Slide over all the way to the right and you'll find those who rely on a literal interpretation of the Word.

On the left side are the amillenialists, those holding to a post-trib rapture, or even the no-raptures. These are represented by most of today's denominations, and the preterists and such.

On the right side are those who hold to a millennial belief that Jesus will reign bodily on the Throne of David for 1,000 years, and to a pre-trib rapture. These are represented by those in most non-denominational, or fundamental churches ... or, in a growing number, by non-churched believers.

I know what I have said so far doesn't help because it just proves that, yes, there are two different ways to interpret Scripture. But, remember, God means what he says, and says what he means, and there is only ONE correct interpretation of what he says.

So, one side or the other of the hermeneutics scale is the wrong side to be on. One end of the scale sows confusion and cascading mis-interpretations that lead to all sorts of fanciful conjectures that invite doctrinal errors. The other end of the scale is the "Aha" end where God's word from Genesis to Revelation is an integrated whole, and understanding just clicks into place ... as God intended.

Get on the end of the hermeneutic scale that God intended, and you'll no longer be troubled by what you read and hear ... because you can just ignore the mis-interpretations coming from what you know is the wrong hermeneutics.

Which is the "right" hermeneutic? I'm not going to say because I can guarantee it will cause heads everywhere to explode and set this thread on fire ... no matter which end I say is the right one. And, I don't want to go there.

However, if you wish to discuss this further with me I would be happy to continue via private messaging.

I know there are those here who are going to jump me and accuse me of not wanting to, or not being able to, defend my position. All I can say to that is: If you are on the same end of the hermeneutic scale as me, then we are already in agreement and don't need to debate. But, if you are on the opposite end of the scale from me, there can be no meeting of minds, your mind is already made up, and there is no point to debate.

I do want to emphatically state, however, that hermeneutics for the most part is not a salvation issue. You'll find very committed Christians on both ends of the scale. There are extremely competent, diligent Christian scholars throughout the ages, as well as just plain folks like us, who hold to opposite beliefs. And I fully expect to meet up with them in heaven and get a good laugh over all the angst and strife that we created debating our different interpretations.

Exactly right! "It's in the Bible" does't really mean anything unless you have access to accurate and authoritative interpretation. Protestantism demonstrates what happens when you try to follow the Bible without such an authoritative source - thousands of unauthorized conflicting manmade denominations, each claiming to follow the Bible, yet the beliefs/teachings of each denomination contradicting the beliefs/teachings of the others. Truth cannot contradict truth, so there is obviously a great deal of untruth being taught in such churches. Jesus anticipated this problem, which is why His clearly stated will concerning His followers was and still is "That they all may be ONE, even as I and My heavenly Father are ONE". Which is why He founded ONE Church, said it was to remain ONE, and promised that ONE Church "The Holy Spirit will guide you into all truth", and "Whatsoever you bind upon Earth is bound in Heaven", and "He who hears you hears Me". Which is why that ONE Church remains ONE in belief, ONE in teaching, ONE in worship, ONE in biblical understanding throughout the world after 2,000 years, with NO conflicting denominations. That ONE Church compiled the Bible from its own writings (and early Jewish writings), and is the only authoritative interpreter of its own book.

JohnB445 said:

I understand some will say "if it's in the Bible".

But then how can we know we are not deceived by what we think the verse means?

You will get 100 confusing and contradictory answers for any topic from a professing Christian's answer.

This is what keeps me double-minded because they keep confusing me.

I'm getting to the point where I'm just go to trust in my own consciousness.

And if I am wrong, well God have mercy on me for being stupid.

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None of us have perfect knowledge or theology as individuals, much as we might prefer to think we do. And, yes, we have to trust our own conscience in any case-doing the best we can with what we know. We should never act against our consciences in fact; that would be to live a lie. So whether we're trying to discern the truth from the bible, or from the teachings of a pastor or teachings, creeds, or confessions, etc, of a church, we must ultimately decide for ourselves, relying on God to give us the grace to understand rightly.

Many of us have been where you are regarding Scripture, because in the end we become the interpreters. And if you've spent time dialoguing-or arguing -with others over the meaning of passages, you'll eventually find that there can easily be more than one plausible interpretation, even when they conflict dramatically with other plausible interpretations. For myself I had to take a step back and realize that Scripture could not serve as a reliable rule of faith-and that we need input from the church God established for that purpose, and which has possessed the knowledge of the faith since the beginning, wherever that entity or church exists. And while this makes much sense from a purely logical perspective as well, it still remains a matter of our own conscience and subjective determination; we still decide for ourselves as we come to agree with whatever source we're considering.

JohnB445 said:

That would match up with category 3 would it?

Because I think I am saved and believe.

But I don't know for 100% if I am deceived.

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Have you ever considered just trusting in God?

Have you ever asked Him for discernment and understanding of His Word?

What makes you think if you trust in Him that He would turn His back on you?

Scripture says:

"All those the Father gives me will come to me, and whoever comes to me I will never drive away."

All those who God wills will come and NO ONE will be driven away..

So go to Jesus and trust Him.. stop trusting in yourself.

Consider this the fire you have to stop and trust Jesus to get safely through.

JohnB445 said:

I understand some will say "if it's in the Bible".

But then how can we know we are not deceived by what we think the verse means?

You will get 100 confusing and contradictory answers for any topic from a professing Christian's answer.

This is what keeps me double-minded because they keep confusing me.

I'm getting to the point where I'm just go to trust in my own consciousness.

And if I am wrong, well God have mercy on me for being stupid.

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If you have the doctrine of Christ, everything will line up with scripture. Also, there will be no contradictions in what you say. All this comes down to how you understand scripture, in the first place.

.Mikha'el. said:

Faith by definition is the belief in that which can neither be proven or disproven. There's no way of knowing absolutely about anything. All we can do is trust that for the most part our convictions will be justified in the end.

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No offense my friend but I believe that would be considered “little faith”.

JohnB445 said:

I understand some will say "if it's in the Bible".

But then how can we know we are not deceived by what we think the verse means?

You will get 100 confusing and contradictory answers for any topic from a professing Christian's answer.

This is what keeps me double-minded because they keep confusing me.

I'm getting to the point where I'm just go to trust in my own consciousness.

And if I am wrong, well God have mercy on me for being stupid.

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how ?

1. Read the Bible.
2. Let the Holy Spirit guide you to the easy and obvious answers.
3. Don't imagine to yourself that there is such a thing as a position nobody will object to.

Notice the "details" in this example Mark 7:6-13. Christ takes an obvious point - but clearly it was not a well accepted one with the religious teachers of his day

JohnB445 said:

Here's the paradox I am in.

I've been told unless I find the Original Manuscripts I am not allowed to read the Bible. Some say I already did the unforgivable sin for reading the Bible instead of the original manuscripts.

That's one reason why I don't study it, because what's the point if I get deceived and what if they're were right that I needed to find the originals?

I have spent 4 hours a day trying to figure out which Bible to read from.

The Septuagint or Textus Receptus.

I don't know how many more months it will take to figure out all out.

I got saved in August 4th I hope I did, it is Feburary 11th now. So I haven't read in a while.

I even prayed and asked God if the ESV was okay to use and if I should get it. I bought it happy to finally read the Word, then someone told me it's not the originals and I'm not allowed to read from it or God won't bless me.

So I am stuck in this paradox.

There are mines all around my feet just waiting to explode.

So what can I do? Is there even a chance?

Note: I had to edit this because I spelt Septuagint wrong. Now that's another sin I am in.

And if the Septuagint was the original who knows what kind of sin I just committed?

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Realize that probably the majority of believers down thru the ages were illiterate! God doesn't expect us to be a bible scholar or theologian to understand the gospel. That's being way over-scrupulous.

I would first of all distance myself from the group you're listening to. Then relax with Scripture, the Revised standard version or NIV will suffice. And pray. And trust. God wants you to know the truth and isn't meaning for it to be a hard road.

JohnB445 said:

I've been told unless I find the Original Manuscripts I am not allowed to read the Bible.

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I have not seen anyone on this board posting that... as far as I know -- no denomination teaches that Christians should not read the Bible unless they find an autograph of Paul.

What is more all scholars agree that the original autographs are no longer in existence.

What is more the finding of the "Dead Sea Scrolls" removed the last shred of ground that idea had to stand on - by proving that over several centuries of time - there were no changes in the manuscripts.

Some say I already did the unforgivable sin for reading the Bible instead of the original manuscripts.

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Which is a problem for them -- since they don't have those manuscripts either.

Don't get bothered by extreme "don't read your Bible just trust me" arguments you see on the radical fringe.

That's one reason why I don't study it, because what's the point if I get deceived and what if they're were right that I needed to find the originals?

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That's a smoke screen they are using... there are no more originals. All the autographs are gone and we already had the experiment showing that -- it does not matter.

I have spent 4 hours a day trying to figure out which Bible to read from.
The Septuagint or Textus Receptus.

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Neither of which are based on autographs. Erasmus compiled the Textus Receptus from many many manuscripts - taking the best-of-the-best.

As for the Septuagint - it is a Greek translation of the Hebrew - so "by definition" it is not an autograph of what the actual Hebrew writers were writing.

Don't sweat all that small stuff. Reasonably well translated Bibles into English are "sufficient" for example KJV, NKJV, NASB (or ESV if you like) etc. And compare those three at times if you have questions. Pick one that you enjoy and start from there.

Even a long journey begins with one step. Don't get "analysis paralysis" and refuse the first step. This is much more obvious and easy than you are being led to believe.

I even prayed and asked God if the ESV was okay to use and if I should get it. I bought it happy to finally read the Word,

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Good for you ! Now go for it.

I for one do not select it -- but I have no question about those who do -- it is the Bible... read it! Enjoy it! learn from it.

Also there is "Bible Gateway" -- it has a ton of Translations and will let you "compare" if you get stuck on something.

then someone told me it's not the originals and I'm not allowed to read from it or God won't bless me.

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They were giving you nonsense. Don't go for that stuff.
Tell them to come to this area of the board and propose that fringe idea to see how it holds up to "close review".

If their only solution is to "ignore every detail presented" in response to their position - then the reader may know something is amiss in their view.

Note: I had to edit this because I spelt Septuagint wrong. Now that's another sin I am in.

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Those aren't sins.

The Bible that you are not reading solved your problem already - it defines sin as "transgression of the LAW" 1 John 3:4 not "misspelling" or "reading a translation that had one mistake in it".

Relax - God is not the oger some would draw him out to be... and they can only get by with doing that as long as you don't read His letter to you.

Lighten up friend. It is a much "nicer" Gospel than you have been led to believe.

JohnB445 said:

But how do I know if I understand anything at all? That is my fear, that I am in a illusion some how and don't know it. And God knows I'm too dumb to figure things out and won't help me.

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I think only solution for that is to check do you understand. Can you give one example of a matter that you are not sure you understand correctly?

JohnB445 said:

I understand some will say "if it's in the Bible".

But then how can we know we are not deceived by what we think the verse means?

You will get 100 confusing and contradictory answers for any topic from a professing Christian's answer.

This is what keeps me double-minded because they keep confusing me.

I'm getting to the point where I'm just go to trust in my own consciousness.

And if I am wrong, well God have mercy on me for being stupid.

Click to expand...

As I mentioned in my other post, stop listening to the doctrines of men and start listening to what
the Holy Spirit is saying to you. In order to get His help, you have to ask Him
Blessings

Hi and thank you for your post.

It’s a difficult question and I struggle with it all the time when I read Scripture.

At the end of the day, my trusty absolute is this: I trust Jesus. Jesus said (very black and white-ly) that His Apostles would be guided by the Holy Spirit who would guide them in all truth. If I trust the Apostles’ teachings, then I think that’s pretty good.

JohnB445 said:

I understand some will say "if it's in the Bible".

But then how can we know we are not deceived by what we think the verse means?

You will get 100 confusing and contradictory answers for any topic from a professing Christian's answer.

This is what keeps me double-minded because they keep confusing me.

I'm getting to the point where I'm just go to trust in my own consciousness.

And if I am wrong, well God have mercy on me for being stupid.

Click to expand...

How does one know if their interpretation of a Bible passage is correct?

First off, I think it's valuable to realize that passages may have more than one correct interpretation. Some of that depends on the question being asked.

Secondly, getting the right answer for the question you're asking isn't difficult; but it does take diligence and labor. The Bible is its own dictionary, commentary and interpreter. What ever question you have on one part of the Bible, the answer will be someplace else. Now, where, may not be obvious and it may take quite a bit of digging to find; but it's in there. And when you find it; this is one way you know you have the correct answer for your specific question.

In theological terms; we know the entire book is about the death, burial and resurrection of Christ. So any answer we are looking for will somehow be related to this major subject. And if we string passages together to make up a congruent idea to the main theme that makes theological sense; this is another way we know we are on the right track.

The other thing that's handy to have are Greek and Hebrew concordances / interlinear Bibles. Most translations are decent enough to be able to pick up the major theme of redemption, even if the translation is a bit lacking in accuracy on an individual word or two.

Translations are not perfect and we have a grand plethora of information and resources at our fingertips. Because of the Internet; no generation in history has the opportunity of access to the acquisition of information as we have today. That is a gift.

Also keep in mind that Scripture is written as "intentionally tricky". (It's the glory of God to conceal a matter and honor of kings to search it out. Proverbs 25:2) Knowing that small details are in the Scripture and paying attention to them can open doors of understanding we often pass right over and don't notice.

For example: in the account of Jesus raising Lazarus; we find a detail that tells us the bodily resurrection of the dead occurs on "the last day". That may not be important in the context of the story; but if you're trying to put together a Biblical eschatology; that detail is very important.

Also, knowing how to string texts together is helpful; because you start to see patterns.

Another example. "3 days and 3 nights in the heart of the earth". "6 days before Passover" Lazarus's sister Mary anoints Jesus's feet. (John 12:1) This is the Thursday into Friday after sundown on the Friday before the triumphant entry into Jerusalem. Jesus preaches in the temple Sunday, Monday, Tuesday. Tuesday night an anonymous woman pours oil on His head while He's eating. (Matthew 26:2) He says "She's done this for my burial".

Now is it any coincidence that exactly 3 days and 3 nights later, Jesus is dead? He started being "buried" Tuesday night. Now who would have thought to look there for that? The Scripture is full of all sorts of little gems like this.

So let's keep going. Passover is on the 6th day after Jesus's feet being anointed. Now let's jump over to Daniel that talks about "for one week" "confirm a covenant with many". This is seen as the "great tribulation". Go from there to Matthew 24 that says this "great tribulation" would be "cut short" or "no flesh would be saved". So, when was "flesh saved"? (When did the atonement take place? That happened at the cross.) From the Friday Mary anoints Jesus's feet until the day He died would have been 7 days. Yet this 7 days is "cut short". What does that mean?

What happened the night of Passover? Jesus was visited by an angel. Jump over to Exodus.

What angel comes on Passover? Answer: the angel of death.

What happened when the angel of death passed through the land? Answer: the first born died.

How did the angel of death kill the first born. Answer: remove the breath of life. This condemns their souls to hades, thus killing the body. Jesus "preached to the spirits in prison" (1 Peter 3:19).

How come Jesus didn't die when confronted by the angel of death? Answer: He had a Divine nature, so thus could survive with soul severed from Body.

Why did that happen? Answer: because the wrath of God causes men to go insane. (Jeremiah 51) Jesus was made to drink the cup of God's wrath. Revelation 14:10 speaks of "cup of His indignation" being the wrath of God. Matthew 26:39 Jesus prays that this cup would pass from him. His soul was severed from the rest of his personhood so he could complete the atonement without losing his mind. (Gives us some understanding of the frailty of the flesh.)

Friday afternoon just before Jesus dies, it says: Jesus knowing that all things were now accomplished that the Scripture might be fulfilled said "I thirst". John 19:18. Prior to this He tells one of the thieves: "Today you will be with me in paradise." Luke 23:43. Then finally he says "It is finished." John 19:30.

Jesus dies. Now jump over to Revelation. We have an account of the lamb that was slain standing before the throne of God. With Him are "those who came out of great tribulation".

Jesus began the millennial reign as the King reigning. Ephesians 1:18-22 tells us that commenced with the resurrection.

So yes, here you have it. How do you know your interpretation of a passage is correct? Because it's in the Bible. LOL - you actually answered your own question!