How can we know if we are right?

JohnB445

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I understand some will say "if it's in the Bible".

But then how can we know we are not deceived by what we think the verse means?

You will get 100 confusing and contradictory answers for any topic from a professing Christian's answer.

This is what keeps me double-minded because they keep confusing me.

I'm getting to the point where I'm just go to trust in my own consciousness.

And if I am wrong, well God have mercy on me for being stupid.
 

.Mikha'el.

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Faith by definition is the belief in that which can neither be proven or disproven. There's no way of knowing absolutely about anything. All we can do is trust that for the most part our convictions will be justified in the end.
 
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Albion

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I understand some will say "if it's in the Bible".

But then how can we know we are not deceived by what we think the verse means?

You will get 100 confusing and contradictory answers for any topic from a professing Christian's answer.

This is what keeps me double-minded because they keep confusing me.

I'm getting to the point where I'm just go to trust in my own consciousness.

And if I am wrong, well God have mercy on me for being stupid.
On the other hand, what information or perspective that is generally accepted in life--not just about religious beliefs--does NOT have some naysayers who will promote an alternate view of things?

Yet we do not throw up our hands at that and say, "I guess I won't believe anyone because, you see, there is no agreement."

Why is that?
 
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JohnB445

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On the other hand, what information or perspective that is generally accepted in life--not just about religious beliefs--does NOT have some naysayers who will promote an alternate view of things?

Yet we do not throw up our hands at that and say, "I guess I won't believe anyone because, you see, there is no agreement."

Why is that?


Because we will get nowhere if we just throw our hands up.

But if I have false beliefs then what's the point, if I am just going to be thrown in hell for being deceived?

How do I know if Catholicism is true? How do I know if Calvinism is true? Etc.

I don't like playing Russian roulette.

Not a fun game.
 
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JohnB445

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On the other hand, what information or perspective that is generally accepted in life--not just about religious beliefs--does NOT have some naysayers who will promote an alternate view of things?

Yet we do not throw up our hands at that and say, "I guess I won't believe anyone because, you see, there is no agreement."

Why is that?


There are 4 possibilities for me. And I am not willing to take a 75% chance in spending a eternity in hell.

1. I am saved and just condemning my own self in vain.

2. I am predestined to hell.

3. I am currently deceived.

4. Don't know
 
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Tempura

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Sometimes we just know. Sometimes it's a process, the spirit revealing and enforcing something throughout the years for us. Sometimes we don't know something.

I comfort myself with this:

"If I speak in the tongues of men or of angels, but do not have love, I am only a resounding gong or a clanging cymbal. If I have the gift of prophecy and can fathom all mysteries and all knowledge, and if I have a faith that can move mountains, but do not have love, I am nothing. If I give all I possess to the poor and give over my body to hardship that I may boast, but do not have love, I gain nothing.

Love is patient, love is kind. It does not envy, it does not boast, it is not proud. It does not dishonor others, it is not self-seeking, it is not easily angered, it keeps no record of wrongs. Love does not delight in evil but rejoices with the truth. It always protects, always trusts, always hopes, always perseveres.

Love never fails. But where there are prophecies, they will cease; where there are tongues, they will be stilled; where there is knowledge, it will pass away. For we know in part and we prophesy in part, but when completeness comes, what is in part disappears. When I was a child, I talked like a child, I thought like a child, I reasoned like a child. When I became a man, I put the ways of childhood behind me. For now we see only a reflection as in a mirror; then we shall see face to face. Now I know in part; then I shall know fully, even as I am fully known.

And now these three remain: faith, hope and love. But the greatest of these is love."

Even Paul, the author of much in the New Testament, says that "we know in part and prophecy in part" and that "even if I have all the knowledge and faith that can move mountains, I am nothing without love". So I keep myself simple. If I don't understand something, I simply ask God to teach whatever I need to know in His perfect time and ways. Meanwhile, I can trust that He is God, He knows when I don't, and I can rest in Jesus Christ, draw strength from Him, even faith from Him, and I can love my neighbor with a happy heart. If there is something that's confusing me and I need to know it, in time I will know. I shouldn't trust too much on my own feelings or supposed knowledge, especially if I'm prone to running around, afraid of everything in confusion, not content in letting God to guide me. Many suicide cult leaders probably had great assurance, and some of them were probably very sure about what they "knew".

Another one of my favorites, perhaps my favorite part of the Bible:

"At that time Jesus said, “I praise you, Father, Lord of heaven and earth, because you have hidden these things from the wise and learned, and revealed them to little children. Yes, Father, for this is what you were pleased to do.
“All things have been committed to me by my Father. No one knows the Son except the Father, and no one knows the Father except the Son and those to whom the Son chooses to reveal him.
“Come to me, all you who are weary and burdened, and I will give you rest. Take my yoke upon you and learn from me, for I am gentle and humble in heart, and you will find rest for your souls. For my yoke is easy and my burden is light.”

You will grow in faith, you will grow in knowledge. Leave it to God, ask for Him to guide you in faith and wisdom. Don't try to outrun God, don't run around scared all the time, you will learn patience. He can be very thorough when He's growing us in spirit. He's not slow, He's thorough, and He knows that if we got everything right away, we'd lose most of it the next day, without understanding what we had in the first place. So if something takes time, let it take time. Read your Bible, ask for guidance, pray as you are, believe that Christ came for you too, and He's more than willing, more than able to help you with these things. Said a prayer for you. No fear.
 
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Albion

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Because we will get nowhere if we just throw our hands up.

How does that square with the following (from the original post)? To me, it looks like a contradiction?

You will get 100 confusing and contradictory answers for any topic from a professing Christian's answer.

This is what keeps me double-minded because they keep confusing me.

I'm getting to the point where I'm just go to trust in my own consciousness.
 
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Albion

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There are 4 possibilities for me. And I am not willing to take a 75% chance in spending a eternity in hell.

1. I am saved and just condemning my own self in vain.

2. I am predestined to hell.

3. I am currently deceived.

4. Don't know
………….…………………………………………………………………………………………………………………….
Don't forget #5.

5. I am not a believer, because I don't know whom to believe, therefore I am almost certain to go to hell.

Comment?

By the way, your 4 point system leaves you with a 75% chance of going to hell, not a 75% chance of escaping it.
 
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JohnB445

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………….…………………………………………………………………………………………………………………….
Don't forget #5.

5. I am not a believer, because I don't know whom to believe, therefore I am almost certain to go to hell.

Comment?

That would match up with category 3 would it?

Because I think I am saved and believe.

But I don't know for 100% if I am deceived.
 
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childeye 2

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I understand some will say "if it's in the Bible".

But then how can we know we are not deceived by what we think the verse means?

You will get 100 confusing and contradictory answers for any topic from a professing Christian's answer.

This is what keeps me double-minded because they keep confusing me.

I'm getting to the point where I'm just go to trust in my own consciousness.

And if I am wrong, well God have mercy on me for being stupid.
The Holy Spirit uses the moral conviction of Love others as you would want to be loved. Since any reasoning based upon falsehood must end in a contradiction according to this commandment, He uses this to convict us of sin and keep us from being deceived. I hope this helps.
 
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Albion

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That would match up with category 3 would it?
Yes, on second thought, you are probably right about that.

But I don't know for 100% if I am deceived.
Well, 2, 3, and 4 seem like formulas for going to hell, either because you are bound for hell no matter what or because you do not avail yourself of the way out. You do have the possibility of 1 being correct, though, and that is the promise of universalism.

But all of that is a side issue and probably my fault for bringing it up. On the main issue, I still wonder why you cannot take a stand on the Bible merely because there are some people who have alternative views of it.

Is it not the case that we believe all sorts of things in life even though there are people who say the majority view is wrong? Why then do we draw back when it comes to believing the Bible in particular?
 
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JohnB445

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Yes, on second thought, you are probably right about that.


Well, 2, 3, and 4 seem like formulas for going to hell, either because you are bound for hell no matter what or because you do not avail yourself of the way out. You do have the possibility of 1 being correct, though, and that is the promise of universalism.

But all of that is a side issue and probably my fault for bringing it up. On the main issue, I still wonder why you cannot take a stand on the Bible merely because there are some people who have alternative views of it.

Is it not the case that we believe all sorts of things in life even though there are people who say the majority view is wrong? Why then do we draw back when it comes to believing the Bible in particular?


Well the majority view is a man needs to earn heaven through self righteousness.

Instead of Grace through Faith, and the Grace transforms them. Which I agree with the Grace through Faith one.

But hey what if I am deceived and just dumb and don't know it.
 
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Albion

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Well the majority view is a man needs to earn heaven through self righteousness.

I know a handful of denominations which come close to saying that. Would this be considered a majority view?

Instead of Grace through Faith, and the Grace transforms them. Which I agree with the Grace through Faith one.

But hey what if I am deceived and just dumb and don't know it.
OK, I have been interested in a certain part of what you said initially, but the end game here I think is that most of the differences do not determine whether you are saved or lost.

You mentioned Catholicism and Calvinism a few posts ago, and the truth is that both of them would advise you that your salvation is not dependent upon being in agreement with all the many beliefs, teachings, and etc. of any denomination so long as the essentials are believed--and they are few. It certainly matters that the different churches strive to teach the truth about non-essentials, too, but your salvation doesn't hang on your picking correctly through that list. :)
 
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I understand some will say "if it's in the Bible".

But then how can we know we are not deceived by what we think the verse means?

You will get 100 confusing and contradictory answers for any topic from a professing Christian's answer.

This is what keeps me double-minded because they keep confusing me.

I'm getting to the point where I'm just go to trust in my own consciousness.

And if I am wrong, well God have mercy on me for being stupid.

Jesus said once:
"If you were blind, you would have no sin; but now you say, 'We see.' Therefore your sin remains...”
John 9:41

I think best thing is that you remain in truth always. If you don’t understand something, don’t claim you understand. Things that are now difficult to understand, let them be for a while. You don’t have to understand all right now. Be patient, God gives the explanation eventually. And you can always ask more understanding from God:


But if any of you lacks wisdom, let him ask of God, who gives to all liberally and without reproach; and it will be given to him.

James 1:5


"If you remain in my word, then you are truly my disciples. You will know the truth, and the truth will make you free."

John 8:31-32

I think it is good to be careful and not hasty. I think many make mistake in that they want some answer and then they twist scriptures for that and ignore parts that don’t fit to their own will. By my experience, Bible explains all what it says. That is why it is important to know the whole Bible. Bible usually confirms its teachings in many parts. If the meaning of something is unclear, remain on those parts that are clear and let the unclear be unclear.
 
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JohnB445

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Jesus said once:
"If you were blind, you would have no sin; but now you say, 'We see.' Therefore your sin remains...”
John 9:41

I think best thing is that you remain in truth always. If you don’t understand something, don’t claim you understand. Things that are now difficult to understand, let them be for a while. You don’t have to understand all right now. Be patient, God gives the explanation eventually. And you can always ask more understanding from God:


But if any of you lacks wisdom, let him ask of God, who gives to all liberally and without reproach; and it will be given to him.

James 1:5


"If you remain in my word, then you are truly my disciples. You will know the truth, and the truth will make you free."

John 8:31-32

I think it is good to be careful and not hasty. I think many make mistake in that they want some answer and then they twist scriptures for that and ignore parts that don’t fit to their own will. By my experience, Bible explains all what it says. That is why it is important to know the whole Bible. Bible usually confirms its teachings in many parts. If the meaning of something is unclear, remain on those parts that are clear and let the unclear be unclear.

But how do I know if I understand anything at all? That is my fear, that I am in a illusion some how and don't know it. And God knows I'm too dumb to figure things out and won't help me.

Miracles went away, so because that happened God must have abadoned me?

So maybe I am some how stuck in a illusion and need to figure a way to fix all this.
 
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Tempura

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God will help you, trust in that. Patience. You're running around like a headless chicken, you're in a hurry. No hurry. God will teach you in whatever ways He sees fit. If you take the attitude "God won't help me, He won't hear me, I have to do something" you're shutting him out in your impatience, thinking He is not a real God or who didn't willingly, as an act of divine love instead of begrundgingly, give you His Son. Don't obey your fears, don't surrender to them. Most christians go through something like this, where they just don't know because they're just beginning their journey. Many have tribulations of faith, many have confusion. Patience, friend. Pray as you are, ask for Him to guide you in ways you can understand. He knows all about this. Then let God be God and answer your prayers in time, calm yourself, and focus on loving your neighbor and reading the Bible. God will pull through eventually, through all of our fears and walls and confusion. Christ won't abandon you. Breathe. Don't think for a second you have to understand everything, or even much, right now. God is more powerful than your fears or confusion, and He loves you more than you think. You will learn patience.
 
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AvgJoe

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There are 4 possibilities for me. And I am not willing to take a 75% chance in spending a eternity in hell.

1. I am saved and just condemning my own self in vain.

2. I am predestined to hell.

3. I am currently deceived.

4. Don't know

In Mark 1:15, Jesus said, "Repent and believe the Gospel" and in John 3:16, He said, "For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have everlasting life." To repent is to have a change of mind. The Gospel is found in 1 Corinthians 15:3-4, "Christ died for our sins, just as the Scriptures said.4 He was buried, and he was raised from the dead on the third day, just as the Scriptures said."

What is the path to salvation?

1) Realize that you’re are a sinner. (Romans 3:23, 5:12; 1 John 1:10)

2) Change your mind about Jesus (repent).
  • Jesus said: “…unless you repent (have a change of mind that results in a change of action), you will all perish and be lost eternally. (Luke 13:5)
  • …now God charges all people everywhere to repent. (Acts 17:30)

3) Believe the Gospel, that Jesus Christ died for you, was buried and rose from the dead.
  • We are made right in God’s sight when we trust in Jesus Christ to take away our sins. And we all can be saved in the same way, no matter who we are or what we have done. For God sent Jesus to take the punishment for our sins and to satisfy God’s anger against us. We are made right with God when we believe that Jesus shed His blood, sacrificing His Life for us. (Romans 3:22, 25)
  • For if you confess with your mouth that Jesus is Lord and believe in your heart that God raised Him from the dead, you will be saved. (Romans 10:9)

4) Go to God in prayer, confessing Jesus as Lord and your need for forgiveness of your sins. Give your life to Jesus, making Him the Lord of your life.
  • For it is believing in your heart that you are made right with God, and it is by confessing with your mouth that you are saved. (Romans 10:10)
  • For anyone who calls on the name of the Lord will be saved.(Romans 10:13)

Then you've got to trust Jesus to do His part, to save you, just like He said He will. <~~~Without this part, I spent years doubting my salvation, praying (over & over/again & again) for God to save me, never knowing, for sure, if I was. Ever since I started trusting Jesus to do what He said He will do, I know I'm saved and have never had any doubts about it since then.

If you've made it to this point, then you are saved/you are a Christian, regardless if any of the other beliefs you hold are incorrect. You can, absolutely, be saved without having every aspect of Christianity figured out correctly.

John 3:16 does not say "that whoever believes in Him and holds 100% correct beliefs about all of Christianity should not perish but have everlasting life." No! Those who are saved/gain everlasting life, are those who believe in Jesus ==and nothing else==.
 
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Pioneer3mm

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I assume that you are not new believer/Christian.
---
We argue about Bible verse to prove that "my position/interpretation is right!".
-- As you said, it can be "100 different" answers.
Read some thread/topic titles & discussion! - on C.F.
---
Maybe you need more time of devotion and spiritual renewal.
- Seek more discernment and wisdom.
 
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