BABerean2 said:
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Isa 65:17 For, behold
, I create new heavens and a new earth: and the former shall not be remembered, nor come into mind.
Isa 65:18 But be ye glad and rejoice for ever in that which I create: for,
behold, I create Jerusalem a rejoicing, and her people a joy.
Isa 65:19 And
I will rejoice in Jerusalem, and joy in my people: and the voice of weeping shall be no more heard in her, nor the voice of crying.
Where is your New Jerusalem which is to replace the old, and where is your time of no weeping or crying?
One Son's post actually answers that:
One Son said:
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17
At that time they shall call
Jerusalem the
throne of the LORD; and all the nations shall be gathered unto it, to the
name of the LORD, to
Jerusalem: neither shall they walk any more after the imagination of their evil heart.
Once the temple was destroyed....."New Jerusalem" (I believe) was heaven....that became the "hub"....the throne of God.
As I posted before...quoting Ray Vander Laan....to the Jewish mind, "kingdom" refers to a place and a situation where the king's will is done. Until the destruction of the temple/Jerusalem, the New Jerusalem (God's throne) was not completely reigning.....the Jewish age had not ended. This all goes back to the conversation Jesus had with His disciples that's recorded in Matthew 24. Time is divided by the Jews into two periods - the present age and the age to come.
Quoting William Barclay:
-------->Time was divided by the Jews into two great periods-- this present age, and the age to come. The present age is wholly bad and beyond all hope of human reformation. It can be mended only by the direct intervention of God. When God does intervene the golden age, the age to come, will arrive. But in between the two ages there will come the Day of the Lord, which will be a time of terrible and fearful upheaval, like the birth-pangs of a new age.
Interesting post and especially this concerning the Jewish view:
As I posted before...quoting Ray Vander Laan....to the Jewish mind, "kingdom" refers to a place and a situation where the king's will is done. Until the destruction of the temple/Jerusalem, the New Jerusalem (God's throne) was not completely reigning.....the Jewish age had not ended. This all goes back to the conversation Jesus had with His disciples that's recorded in Matthew 24. Time is divided by the Jews into two periods - the present age and the age to come.
The Jews of today do not read the NT of the Bible so they have no concept of what a "New Jerusalem" is symbolizing in Hebrews and Revelation, which is all a "COVENANTLE CHANGE" between the Old Way and New Way of worshiping Yahweh.
Isaiah 43:19 Behold, I will do
a new thing; now shall it spring forth; shall ye not know it?
I will even make
a Way in the wilderness, and rivers in the desert.
John 14:6 Jesus is saying to him: "
I AM the Way and the Truth, and the Life. No one is coming toward the Father except thru Me".
The believers and followers of Christ were also know as
"The Way"
Acts 9:2 Did ask from him letters into Damascus, toward the synagogues, if ever he may be finding of
the Way, being men besides and women, having been bound he may be leading into Jerusalem.
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Some interesting articles at this site....whether one is preterist/amill or not, there are many learned men that have expressed their view on the New Heaven/s and Earth.........
https://www.preteristarchive.com/StudyArchive/n/new-heavens-earth.html
1 Peter 4:7
Of all-things yet the End<5056> is nigh<1448> be sane then, and be sober into the prayers,
https://www.preteristarchive.com/StudyArchive/n/new-heavens-earth.html
*snip*
2 Peter 3:13
"Nevertheless we, according to his promise, look for new heavens, and a new earth." II
William Burkitt (1650-1703)
"As if the apostle had said, "The voice of God, at the promulging of the law on mount Sinai, shook the earth; but he promised after this to shake all nations, and that Christ, the expected Messias, the desire of all nations, should come, which is now fulfilled.
1. That there were some things which were intended by God to be shaken, namely, the Levitical priesthood, and all the Jewish sacrifices and services; these things were to be shaken, moved, yea, altogether removed out of the way.
2. That there were things that could not be shaken or removed, but remain; these were the gospel-state, the Christian religion, which shall continue until time shall be no more.
3. That the former things were removed, that the latter might be introduced and established; the law and the gospel were inconsistent; the legal and evangelical administration could not stand in force together, therefore there was a necessity for the nulling of the one, in order to the establishing of the other.
4. That the removal of the law, to bring the more perfect administration of the gospel, doth prove the stability and immutability of the gospel, that it stands fast forever; there shall be no more shaking, no farther alteration in matters of religion to the end of the world. For thus it follows." (Many Thanks to Bill Kuegler ; Commentary on
Hebrews 12:26)
John Owen on the New Heavens and Earth
Josephus First, Book III, chap.6, section 4:
"Now the room within those pillars was the most holy place; but the rest of the room was the tabernacle, which was open for the priests. However, this proportion of the measures of the tabernacle proved to be an imitation of the
system of the world; for that third part thereof which was within the four pillars, to which the priests were not admitted, is, as it were, a heaven peculiar to God." .......................
Josephus War 5.1.4 19-20
.....................Oh most wretched city, what misery so great as this didst thou suffer from the Romans, when they came to purify thee from thy internal pollutions! For thou couldst be no longer a place fit for God, nor couldst thou longer survive, after thou hadst been a sepulchre for the bodies of thine own people, and hast made the Holy House itself a burying-place in this civil war of thine. Yet mayst thou again grow better, if perchance thou wilt hereafter appease the anger of that
God who is the author of thy destruction. But I must restrain myself from these passions by the rules of History, since this is not a proper time for domestic lamentation, but for historical narrations.
EUSEBIUS
Bishop of Caesarea
(c. 265 - 340)
Extract from the 'Theophania' :
"All authorities concur in the declaration that "when all these things should have been done" "The End" should come : that "the mystery of God should be finished as he had declared to His servants the prophets" : it should be completed : time should now be no more : the End of all things (so foretold) should be at hand, and be fully brought to pass : in these days should be fulfilled all that had been spoken of Christ (and of His church) by the prophets : or, in other words, when the gospel should have been preached in all the world for a testimony to all nations, and the power of the Holy People be scattered (abroad), then should the End come, then should all these things be finished. I need now only say, all these things have been done :
the old and elementary system passed away with a great noise; all these predicted empires have actually fallen, and the new kingdom, the new heaven and earth, the new Jerusalem--all of which were to descend from God, to be formed by His power, have been realised on earth ;.......................
John Brown (1853)
" 'Heaven and earth passing,' understood literally, is the dissolution of the present system of the universe, and the period when that is to take place, is called the 'end of the world.' But a person at all familiar with the phraseology of the Old Testament Scriptures, knows that the dissolution of the Mosaic economy, and the establishment of the Christian, is often spoken of as the removing of the old earth and heavens, and the creation of a new earth and new heavens" (vol. 1, p. 170)................
But though symbols are metaphorical expressions, they are not unmeaning. It is not necessary to allegorise them, and find a corresponding equivalent for every trope; it is sufficient to regard the imagery as employed to heighten the sublimity of the prediction and to clothe it with impressiveness and grandeur. There are, at the same time, a true propriety and an underlying reality in the symbols of prophecy. The moral and spiritual facts which they represent, the social and ecumenical changes which they typify, could not be adequately set forth by language less majestic and sublime. There is reason for believing that an inadequate apprehension of the real grandeur and significance of such events as the destruction of Jerusalem and the abrogation of the Jewish economy lies at the root of that system of interpretation which maintains that nothing answering to the symbols of the New Testament prophecy has ever taken place. Hence the uncritical and unscriptural figments of double senses, and double, triple, and multiple fulfillments of prophecy.(vol. i. p.200)................................
David Chilton (1987)
"Moreover, the phrase
heaven and earth in these contexts does not, as Owen pointed out, refer to the physical heaven and the physical world, but to the
world-order, the religious organizations of the world, the "House" or Temple God builds in which He is worshipped." (
Days of Vengeance., p. 544)
Gary DeMar (1996)
"Jesus does not change subjects when He assures the disciples that "heaven and earth will pass away." Rather, He merely affirms His prior predictions, which are recorded in
Matthew 24:2931. Verse 36 is a summary and confirmation statement of these verses.(6) Keep in mind that the central focus of the Olivet Discourse is the desolation of the "house" and "world" of apostate Israel (23:36). The old world of Judaism, represented by the earthly temple, is taken apart stone by stone (24:2). James Jordan writes, "each time God brought judgment on His people during the Old Covenant, there was a sense in which an old heavens and earth was replaced with a new one: New rulers were set up, a new symbolic world model was built (Tabernacle, Temple), and so forth."(7) The New Covenant replaces the Old Covenant with new leaders, a new priesthood, new sacraments, a new sacrifice, a new tabernacle (
John 1:14), and a new temple (
John 2:19;
1 Corinthians 3:16;
Ephesians 2:21). In essence, a new heaven and earth.
The darkening of the sun and moon and the falling of the stars, coupled with the shaking of the heavens (24:29), are more descriptive ways of saying that "heaven and earth will pass away" (24:35). In other contexts, when stars fall, they fall to the earth, a sure sign of temporal judgment (
Isaiah 14:12;
Daniel 8:10;
Revelation 6:13;
9:1;
12:4). So then, the "passing away of heaven and earth" is the passing away of the old covenant world of Judaism led and upheld by those who "crucified the Lord of glory" (
1 Corinthians 2:8). "
"John Owen, the Puritan scholar, knows his Bible better than most of the rest of us, and he tells us exactly where the Old Testament foretells a 'new heaven and earth."
"Owen is right on target, asking the question that so many expositors fail to ask: Where had God promised to bring "new heavens and a new earth" The answer, as Owen correctly states, is only in Isaiah 65 and 66 - passages which clearly prophesy the period of the Gospel, brought in by the work of Christ." (
ibid., p. 495)
"Because of what may be called the 'collapsing universe' terminology used in this passage, many have assumed that St. Peter is speaking of the final end of the physical heaven and earth, rather than the dissolution of the Old Covenant world order." (
Last Days Madness, p. 540)
J. Marcellus Kik (1971)
"But what about the new heaven and the new earth? Will there not be a renovated material heaven and earth? When the Scriptures speak of a new heaven and new earth it is not a material concept, but a spiritual concept."
"Just a little reflection will show that to take Revelation 21 and 22 in a literal way is to make utter foolishness of that which John revealed. In that figurative passage you cannot say that the "new heaven and new earth" is a material concept while the rest is to be taken in a figurative way. The "new heaven and new earth" is but the same as "the holy city" and "the Lamb's bride." (
An Eschatology Of Victory, p. 254-256)
John Lightfoot (1859)
"That the destruction of Jerusalem is very frequently expressed in Scripture as if it were the destruction of the whole world,
Deut. 32:22; "A fire is kindled in mine anger, and shall burn unto the lowest hell, and shall consume the earth with her increase, and set on fire the foundations of the mountains.'
Jer. 4:23; 'I beheld the earth, and lo, it was without form, and void; and the heavens, and they had no light,' &c. The discourse there also is concerning the destruction of that nation,
Isa. 65:17; 'Behold, I create new heavens and a new earth: and the former shall not be remembered,' &c. And more passages of this sort among the prophets. According to this sense, Christ speaks in this place; and Peter speaks in his Second Epistle, third chapter; and John, in the sixth of the Revelation; and Paul,
2 Cor. 5:17, &c. (vol. 2, pp. 18-19)
"With the same reference it is, that the times and state of things immediately following the destruction of Jerusalem are called 'a new creation,' new heavens,' and 'a new earth.' When should that be? Read the whole chapter; and you will find the Jews rejected and cut off; and from that time is that new creation of the evangelical world among the Gentiles.
"That the destruction of Jerusalem and the whole Jewish state is described as if the whole frame of the world were to be dissolved. Nor is it strange, when God destroyed his habitation and city, places once so dear to him, with so direful and sad an overthrow; his own people, whom he accounted of as much or more than the whole world beside, by so dreadful and amazing plagues.
Matt. 24:29,
30, 'The sun shall be darkened &c. Then shall appear the 'sign of the Son of man,' &c; which yet are said to fall out within that generation, ver. 34.
2 Pet. 3:10, 'The heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat,' &c. Compare with this
Deut. 32:22,
Heb. 12:26: and observe that by
elements are understood the Mosaic elements,
Gal 4:9, Coloss. 2:20: and you will not doubt that St. Peter speaks only of the conflagration of Jerusalem, the destruction of the nation, and the abolishing the dispensation of Moses" (vol. 3, p. 452).
