Rapture Top Dogs Admit no Proof Exists

LastSeven · Jul 31, 2018

Jason, I'm sure you mean well but you have to understand that the Bible is full of symbolism, and parables are just another form of symbolism. That doesn't mean God is not telling the truth. It means he's telling it in such a way that only those with discernment will hear.

Matthew 13
10 And the disciples came, and said unto him, Why speakest thou unto them in parables?

11 He answered and said unto them, Because it is given unto you to know the mysteries of the kingdom of heaven, but to them it is not given.

12 For whosoever hath, to him shall be given, and he shall have more abundance: but whosoever hath not, from him shall be taken away even that he hath.

13 Therefore speak I to them in parables: because they seeing see not; and hearing they hear not, neither do they understand.

14 And in them is fulfilled the prophecy of Esaias, which saith, By hearing ye shall hear, and shall not understand; and seeing ye shall see, and shall not perceive:

15 For this people's heart is waxed gross, and their ears are dull of hearing, and their eyes they have closed; lest at any time they should see with their eyes and hear with their ears, and should understand with their heart, and should be converted, and I should heal them.

16 But blessed are your eyes, for they see: and your ears, for they hear.

LittleLambofJesus · Jul 31, 2018

Jason0047 said:
What? All of Jesus's parables were true stories. If not then He told us untruth or lies.

Jason0047 said:
........
"Sanctify them through thy truth: thy word is truth." (John 17:17).
The Bible warns against those who turn God's Word into fables or myths.
"And they shall turn away their ears from the truth,
and shall be turned unto fables." (2 Timothy 4:4).

This was also said concerning the Jews.

Titus 1:14
No heeding to Jewish fables/myths and commandments of men, ones turning from the Truth

2 Thessalonians 2:
11 and because of this shall God send to them a working of delusion, for their believing the lie,
12 that they may be judged — all who did not believe the truth,
but were well pleased in the unrighteousness.

Bible Highlighter · Jul 31, 2018

LittleLambofJesus said:
This was also said concerning the Jews.

Titus 1:14
No heeding to Jewish fables/myths and commandments of men, ones turning from the Truth

2 Thessalonians 2:
11 and because of this shall God send to them a working of delusion, for their believing the lie,
12 that they may be judged — all who did not believe the truth,
but were well pleased in the unrighteousness.

The delusion is satan and his deceptions. God's Word never lies to us. His parables speak truth and not untruth. They cannot be lies and yet also truth.

DavidPT · Jul 31, 2018

LastSeven said:
And here the Bible literally says what you just said it does not.

Acts 24:15
and I have the same hope in God as these men themselves have, that there will be a resurrection of both the righteous and the wicked.

I highlighted the key words in red for you. Notice that it speaks of "a" resurrection. When the letter "a" is used like that it's synonymous with "one". That's basic English.

And look, it says that this resurrection is for "both" the righteous and the wicked. So how then can you say that "It does not say it is one resurrection with it being of both"?

In your mind you apparently think you have a valid point here that can't be understood any other way but the way you are understanding it. As long as there is a resurrection for both the righteous and the wicked, where the former is meaning the first resurrection, and the latter is meaning when the rest of the dead live again after the thousand years, how does that not agree with the text?

Acts 24:15 And have hope toward God, which they themselves also allow, that there shall be a resurrection of the dead, both of the just and unjust.

And have hope toward God, which they themselves also allow, that there shall be a resurrection of the dead, both of the just(Revelation 20:4 & Revelation 20:6) and unjust(Revelation 20:5 & Revelation 20:11-15).

LastSeven · Jul 31, 2018

DavidPT said:
In your mind you apparently think you have a valid point here that can't be understood any other way but the way you are understanding it. As long as there is a resurrection for both the righteous and the wicked, where the former is meaning the first resurrection, and the latter is meaning when the rest of the dead live again after the thousand years, how does that not agree with the text?

Acts 24:15 And have hope toward God, which they themselves also allow, that there shall be a resurrection of the dead, both of the just and unjust.

And have hope toward God, which they themselves also allow, that there shall be a resurrection of the dead, both of the just(Revelation 20:4 & Revelation 20:6) and unjust(Revelation 20:5 & Revelation 20:11-15).

I will never understand how anyone can miss the clear point of Acts 24:15, but surely you can't deny that we are raised on the last day. That being the case, how is it possible, without changing the meaning of the word "last", for our resurrection to not be the second resurrection?

Bible Highlighter · Jul 31, 2018

LastSeven said:
Jason, I'm sure you mean well but you have to understand that the Bible is full of symbolism, and parables are just another form of symbolism. That doesn't mean God is not telling the truth. It means he's telling it in such a way that only those with discernment will hear.

Matthew 13
10 And the disciples came, and said unto him, Why speakest thou unto them in parables?

11 He answered and said unto them, Because it is given unto you to know the mysteries of the kingdom of heaven, but to them it is not given.

12 For whosoever hath, to him shall be given, and he shall have more abundance: but whosoever hath not, from him shall be taken away even that he hath.

13 Therefore speak I to them in parables: because they seeing see not; and hearing they hear not, neither do they understand.

14 And in them is fulfilled the prophecy of Esaias, which saith, By hearing ye shall hear, and shall not understand; and seeing ye shall see, and shall not perceive:

15 For this people's heart is waxed gross, and their ears are dull of hearing, and their eyes they have closed; lest at any time they should see with their eyes and hear with their ears, and should understand with their heart, and should be converted, and I should heal them.

16 But blessed are your eyes, for they see: and your ears, for they hear.

This passage does not say that Christ's parables are not true or fiction (unless you can point to me the exact words in this passage that say that). A parable is simply a real world example. That's all it is. He uses real world examples to illustrate a spiritual truth. Just look at Christ's parables. Does it talk about green men on Mars or sheep with ten heads or upside down buildings floating in the sky? We know that God can use symbolism, like in Revelation 5:6 (like the Lamb with seven horns and seven eyes). But these pictures or symbols are clearly metaphor because of the oddness of their description.

In other words, if you look at artwork and you see a painting of a realistic place that you have visited, you would realize that this is a realistic and or truthful piece of artwork. But if you were to see something from Salvador Dali, you would be venturing more into the realm of something that is make believe or fiction. Why? Because his artwork is something like from another world. See, that's what you are not getting.

LastSeven · Jul 31, 2018

Jason0047 said:
A parable is simply a real world example.

If it was a real world example it would not be a parable. It would be an example.

Bible Highlighter · Jul 31, 2018

LastSeven said:
If it was a real world example it would not be a parable. It would be an example.

The Bible does not always use language that we are familiar with. This is why many today falsely think that Jesus made alcoholic wine, and that Jesus supports His followers in taking up arms to fight.

BABerean2 · Jul 31, 2018

LastSeven said:
So then you must believe that the people in heaven can see and speak with the people in hell. How restful would it be to have a front row seat to seeing your loved ones in agony?

Sure there is. Can you imagine people literally stuffed under an altar? That doesn't sound very "heavenly" to me. If that's not a metaphor then why would I look forward to heaven?

Rev 20:4 And I saw thrones, and they sat on them, and judgment was committed to them. Then I saw the souls of those who had been beheaded for their witness to Jesus and for the word of God, who had not worshiped the beast or his image, and had not received his mark on their foreheads or on their hands. And they lived and reigned with Christ for a thousand years.

If God is in heaven, and Christ is in heaven, I would be blessed to go there, and be in their presence.

Rev_6:9 When He opened the fifth seal, I saw under the altar the souls of those who had been slain for the word of God and for the testimony which they held.

Rev_18:13 and cinnamon and incense, fragrant oil and frankincense, wine and oil, fine flour and wheat, cattle and sheep, horses and chariots, and bodies and souls of men.

.............................................

Luk 3:16 John answered, saying to all, "I indeed baptize you with water; but One mightier than I is coming, whose sandal strap I am not worthy to loose. He will baptize you with the Holy Spirit and fire.

The verse above proves that men can be made up of more than a body.
.

Bible Highlighter · Jul 31, 2018

LastSeven said:
If it was a real world example it would not be a parable. It would be an example.

My point is that you have to prove with the Bible that a parable is fictional besides just using the word "parable." Let the Bible tell you the meaning behind what the word "parable" is (and don't let men's earthly definitions sooth your soul instead). Does it sound like parables are talking about things that are in some strange dimension that cannot happen here? I would say not.

LittleLambofJesus · Jul 31, 2018

Rapture Top Dogs Admit no Proof Exists

Jason0047 said:
The delusion is satan and his deceptions. God's Word never lies to us. His parables speak truth and not untruth. They cannot be lies and yet also truth.

This thread isn't about parables, but the rapture.......

You may want to check out this thread concerning the "rapture" of the 2 witnesses and the similarity between that and the resurrection of Lazarus

https://www.christianforums.com/threads/lazarus-and-2-witnesses-of-reve-11-similarity.7461118/
Apr 24, 2010

John 11
39 Jesus is saying "take away ye!" the stone.
Martha is saying to Him, the sister of the one having deceased, "Lord, already he stinking, for it is fourth-day
43 And these saying, to a great Voice He cries-out "Lazarus, hither out!"

Revelation 11:
9 And are observing out of the peoples and tribes and tongues and nations the bodies of them three and half days and the bodies of them not they suffer to be placed into tomb.
11 And after the three and half days, a breath of life out of the God entered in them and they stand upon their feet and fear great fall upon the ones observing them.
12 And they hear a great Voice out of the Heaven saying to them "ascend ye here!"
And they ascended into the heaven in the cloud....

Bible Highlighter · Jul 31, 2018

LastSeven said:
If it was a real world example it would not be a parable. It would be an example.

Does Revelation 5:6 sound like a metaphor? Absolutely! This is something that is totally out there beyond our reality. But none of Jesus's parables have this kind of odd imagery in it. All of Jesus's parables are based on things that have happened (by statistical probability).

Bible Highlighter · Jul 31, 2018

LittleLambofJesus said:
Rapture Top Dogs Admit no Proof Exists
This thread isn't about parables, but the rapture.......

You may want to check out this thread concerning the "rapture" of the 2 witnesses and the similarity between that and the resururrection of Lazarus

https://www.christianforums.com/threads/lazarus-and-2-witnesses-of-reve-11-similarity.7461118/

John 11:39
Jesus is saying "take away ye!" the stone.
Martha is saying to Him, the sister of the one having deceased, "Lord, already he stinking, for it is fourth-day
43 And these saying, to a great Voice He cries-out "Lazarus, hither out!"

Revelation 11:
9 And are observing out of the peoples and tribes and tongues and nations the bodies of them three and half days and the bodies of them not they suffer to be placed into tomb.
11 And after the three and half days, a breath of life out of the God entered in them and they stand upon their feet and fear great fall upon the ones observing them.
12 And they hear a great Voice out of the Heaven saying to them "ascend ye here!"
And they ascended into the heaven in the cloud....

To properly understand that Christ's parables are true and not fictional is helpful in understanding the Rapture because one of Christ's parables deals with the Rapture (i.e. the Foolish Five Virgins).

LittleLambofJesus · Jul 31, 2018

Jason0047 said:
To properly understand that Christ's parables are true and not fictional is helpful in understanding the Rapture because one of Christ's parables deals with the Rapture (i.e. the Foolish Five Virgins).

Then make a thread on parables............

DavidPT · Jul 31, 2018

LastSeven said:
I will never understand how anyone can miss the clear point of Acts 24:15, but surely you can't deny that we are raised on the last day. That being the case, how is it possible, without changing the meaning of the word "last", for our resurrection to not be the second resurrection?

In context, who does it say is raised on the last day? Show me in the context that it also includes the lost.

John 6:39 And this is the Father's will which hath sent me, that of all which he hath given me I should lose nothing, but should raise it up again at the last day

John 6:40 And this is the will of him that sent me, that every one which seeth the Son, and believeth on him, may have everlasting life: and I will raise him up at the last day.

John 6:44 No man can come to me, except the Father which hath sent me draw him: and I will raise him up at the last day.

John 6:54 Whoso eateth my flesh, and drinketh my blood, hath eternal life; and I will raise him up at the last day.

John 11:24 Martha saith unto him, I know that he shall rise again in the resurrection at the last day.

For example. Did Jesus say this?----Whoso eateth my flesh, and drinketh my blood, hath eternal life; and I will raise him up at the last day.---or did He instead say this?---Whoso eateth my flesh, and drinketh my blood, hath eternal life, and whosoever doesn't, has not eternal life; and I will raise him up at the last day.

and whosoever doesn't, has not eternal life---this part would be literally true, yet in context these are not even whom are meant here.

redleghunter · Jul 31, 2018

LastSeven said:
And? Does the NT nullify the OT?

Absolutely not. However, you leave out progressive revelation.

redleghunter · Jul 31, 2018

LastSeven said:
You mean other than the obvious absurdity of the situation he describes?

What's absurd? Are you implying Jesus is teaching heresy or error?

DavidPT · Jul 31, 2018

Jason0047 said:
To properly understand that Christ's parables are true and not fictional is helpful in understanding the Rapture because one of Christ's parables deals with the Rapture (i.e. the Foolish Five Virgins).

Interesting point.

Bible Highlighter · Jul 31, 2018

DavidPT said:
Interesting point.

Thank you. For me, if the story is fictitious of the Ten Virgins, then the spiritual parallel is fictitious. Reality lines up with reality. Granted, the Bible does use metaphor and figures of speech. But even these metaphors are rooted in some kind of truth, too.

Bible Highlighter · Jul 31, 2018

In the 1st rapture (i.e. the Pre-Trib Rapture), the LORD calls His church up to a wedding/marriage:

• Matthew 25:10

"And while they went to buy, the bridegroom came; and they that were ready went in with him to the marriage: and the door was shut."

But shortly before Christ's second coming to earth (in the second rapture), Christ is returning from a wedding:

• Luke 12:36

"And ye yourselves like unto men that wait for their lord, when he will return from the wedding; that when he cometh and knocketh, they may open unto him immediately."

Rapture Top Dogs Admit no Proof Exists

Amil

Hebrews 2:14.... Pesky Devil, git!

Law of the Lord is perfect, converting the soul.

Well-Known Member

Amil

Law of the Lord is perfect, converting the soul.

Amil

Law of the Lord is perfect, converting the soul.

Newbie

Law of the Lord is perfect, converting the soul.

Hebrews 2:14.... Pesky Devil, git!

Law of the Lord is perfect, converting the soul.

Law of the Lord is perfect, converting the soul.

Hebrews 2:14.... Pesky Devil, git!

Well-Known Member

Thank You Jesus!

Thank You Jesus!

Well-Known Member

Law of the Lord is perfect, converting the soul.

Law of the Lord is perfect, converting the soul.

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