Babylon of Revelation 17-18 was Jerusalem/unfaithful Israel

John Prewett · Dec 29, 2017

Among those who deny Vatican is the Great harlot, I see many who fit the following description:

disingenuous - not candid or sincere,
typically by pretending that one knows less about something than one really does.

claninja,
More clues for the woman
1.)The woman sits on 7 hills: revelation 17:9
Rome was the city of 7 hills; Jerusalem also sits on 7 hills .

NO CITY nearly as famously nicknamed "city of 7 hills" as Rome.
Neither Jerusalem nor any other city nearly as famously nicknamed "city of 7 hills" as Rome.
For centuries even Roman Catholic commentators agreed that Rome was the Revelation "city of 7 hills"
And of course you know it .

claninja,
2.)The woman was drunk on the blood of the saints and martyrs: Revelation 17:6
Jerusalem killed the prophets that were sent to her.

Here you act oblivious to Jesus's prophets and saints who were tortured and murdered
for centuries due to demand of the Roman Catholic Inquisitors.

You also act oblivious to the reality that Jerusalem was punished for it's sins (70AD) and was out of the picture for nearly 2000 years .... whereas the Vatican has been persecuting Jesus's people for some 1600 or so years.

claninja,
3.)The woman was dressed in purple and scarlet, with jewels and golden cup: Revelation 17:4
Jewish Priest garments were scarlet and purple and adorned with Jewels. They also use Golden cups.

Roman Catholicism clearly wins the purple and scarlet costume contest ....
For scarlet and purple outfits, nobody comes close to RC Cardinals and Bishops.

Truth7t7 · Dec 29, 2017

claninja said:
Who is the woman on the beast in Revelation 17-18?
_______________________________________________________________
The woman is the great city
Revelation 18
And the woman you saw is the great city that rules over the kings of the earth.”

A.)the great city is Jerusalem
Revelation 11:8
Their bodies will lie in the street of the great city—figuratively called Sodom and Egypt—where their Lord was also crucified.

B.) Peter states that the church in Jerusalem, is in Babylon.
1 Peter 5:13
She who is at Babylon, who is likewise chosen, sends you greetings, and so does Mark, my son.
________________________________________________________________
Punishment for the woman in Revelation 17-18

A.)God uses the beast and 10 horns to desolate the woman, who is unfaithful Jerusalem.
Revelation 17:16-17
And the ten horns and the beast that you saw will hate the prostitute. They will leave her desolate and naked, and will eat her flesh and burn her with fire. 17For God has put it into their hearts to carry out His purpose by uniting to give their kingdom to the beast, until the words of God are fulfilled.
________________________________________________________________________
Why was the woman punished?

A.) she killed the saint of Jesus
Revelation 17:6
could see that the woman was drunk with the blood of the saints and of the witnesses for Jesus. And I was greatly astonished at the sight of her.

B.) She killed the prophets and saints
Revelation 18:24
And there was found in her the blood of prophets and saints, and of all who had been slain on the earth.

C.) Her sins were piled to heaven
Revelation 18:5
For her sins are piled up to heaven, and God has remembered her iniquities.

D.) She had been immoral with other nations
Revelation 18:3
All the nations have drunkc the wine of the passion of her immorality.
The kings of the earth were immoral with her, and the merchants of the earth have grown wealthy through the extravagance of her luxury.”
_________________________________________________________________________

When did her punishment occur?

When Jesus said it would, on the generation of his audience:

matthew 23:35
And so upon you will come all the righteous blood shed on earth, from the blood of righteous Abel to the blood of Zechariah son of Berekiah, whom you murdered between the temple and the altar. 36Truly I tell you, all these things will come upon this generation.

Revelation 18:24
And there was found in her the blood of prophets and saints, and of all who had been slain on the earth.
_________________________________________________________________________

The woman was unfaithful Jerusalem (israel), who was made desolate by the roman armies because of all the righteous blood it had spilled.

I agree 100% Jerusalem is the harlot of Revelation 17-18

However you quote the book of Revelation and suggest/claim the prophecy was fulfilled in 70AD in the Roman Destruction of Jerusalem?

100% False

The book of Revelation was written in 96AD, John The Apostle was imprisoned on Patmos after 81AD under Roman Emperor Domitian.

Pretty hard to have 70AD prophecy fulfillment in a book (Revelation) that wasn't written until 96AD

Douggg · Dec 29, 2017

John Prewett said:
Among those who deny Vatican is the Great harlot, I see many who fit the following description:

disingenuous - not candid or sincere,
typically by pretending that one knows less about something than one really does.

NO CITY nearly as famously nicknamed "city of 7 hills" as Rome.
Neither Jerusalem nor any other city nearly as famously nicknamed "city of 7 hills" as Rome.
For centuries even Roman Catholic commentators agreed that Rome was the Revelation "city of 7 hills"
And of course you know it .

Here you act oblivious to Jesus's prophets and saints who were tortured and murdered
for centuries due to demand of the Roman Catholic Inquisitors.

Yes, John, the great harlot is the entity of the Vatican, connected to Rome. And which will be destroyed by the ten kings, when the time comes.

But the Vatican is not Mystery, Babylon the Great. Not that you are saying that the Vatican is.

The confusion in these discussions is essentially because many people are reading the inscription on the great harlot's head and assume that inscription identifies the great harlot as Mystery, Babylon the Great.

It is an error to do so, just like it would be an error to think that because of the 666 that will be inscribed on peoples heads who worship the beast and his image, that the 666ers are themselves the beast.

Mystery, Babylon the Great is the principality of Satan, a mystical city. Not a city like Rome, Jerusalem, or New York. The mystical city called Babylon the Great has influence over the affairs of men - spreading wickedness.

Davy · Dec 30, 2017

claninja said:
Never said you condemned unbelieving Jews.

However, you did say those jews ( who Jesus was talking to) would not see Christ until the second coming:

And I stated that some of those Jews may have believed in Jesus before they died/2nd coming.

And that idea would negate what He said specifically to those, now wouldn't it? It would be like He never said that. He didn't say "'some of you' may turn to Me, but you will not see Me until you say...". You reveal you don't really understand who His enemies are that He was directing that to.

very clearly

Luke 23:28
Daughters of Jerusalem, do not weep for me; weep for yourselves and for your children. 29For the time will come when you will say, ‘Blessed are the childless women, the wombs that never bore and the breasts that never nursed!’

Luke 21:23
23How dreadful it will be in those days for pregnant women and nursing mothers!

Luke 23 is what I quoted, and that's what you need to address instead going off on a tangent to something else.

Truth7t7 · Dec 30, 2017

John Prewett said:
Among those who deny Vatican is the Great harlot, I see many who fit the following description:

disingenuous - not candid or sincere,
typically by pretending that one knows less about something than one really does.

NO CITY nearly as famously nicknamed "city of 7 hills" as Rome.
Neither Jerusalem nor any other city nearly as famously nicknamed "city of 7 hills" as Rome.
For centuries even Roman Catholic commentators agreed that Rome was the Revelation "city of 7 hills"
And of course you know it .

Here you act oblivious to Jesus's prophets and saints who were tortured and murdered
for centuries due to demand of the Roman Catholic Inquisitors.

You also act oblivious to the reality that Jerusalem was punished for it's sins (70AD) and was out of the picture for nearly 2000 years .... whereas the Vatican has been persecuting Jesus's people for some 1600 or so years.

Roman Catholicism clearly wins the purple and scarlet costume contest ....
For scarlet and purple outfits, nobody comes close to RC Cardinals and Bishops.

Jerusalem is the harlot, Mystery Babylon the Great.

The Hebrew priest Moses/Aaron wore purple/scarlet Exodus 39, as seen in Revelation 17:4

The harlot is guilty of the "Prophets Blood" Revelation 18:24

Rome didnt exist to be guilty of the Prophets Blood, Jerusalem did. Matthew 23:37

Jerusalem is built on "Seven Hills" just as Rome is.

Mystery Babylon The harlot is identified as "The Great City" in Revelation chapters 17 & 18

"The Great City" is identified as Jerusalem, where the Lord Jesus was crucified Revelation 11:8

The Jews Bow before the Babylonian Talmud & Kabbalah as their Holy books for spiritual guidance.

Jerusalem is Mystery Babylon The Great, The Mother Of Harlots.

Douggg · Dec 30, 2017

Truth7t7 said:
Jerusalem is the harlot, Mystery Babylon the Great.

The Hebrew priest Moses/Aaron wore purple/scarlet Exodus 39, as seen in Revelation 17:4

The harlot is guilty of the "Prophets Blood" Revelation 18:24

Rome didnt exist to be guilty of the Prophets Blood, Jerusalem did. Matthew 23:37

Jerusalem is built on "Seven Hills" just as Rome is.

Mystery Babylon The harlot is identified as "The Great City" in Revelation chapters 17 & 18

"The Great City" is identified as Jerusalem, where the Lord Jesus was crucified Revelation 11:8

The Jews Bow before the Babylonian Talmud & Kabbalah as their Holy books for spiritual guidance.

Jerusalem is Mystery Babylon The Great, The Mother Of Harlots.

Truth7t7, if Jerusalem is Babylon the great, how can Zechariah 14 be fulfilled considering in this verse ....

21 And a mighty angel took up a stone like a great millstone, and cast it into the sea, saying, Thus with violence shall that great city Babylon be thrown down, and shall be found no more at all.

Truth7t7 · Dec 30, 2017

Douggg said:
Truth7t7, if Jerusalem is Babylon the great, how can Zechariah 14 be fulfilled considering in this verse ....

21 And a mighty angel took up a stone like a great millstone, and cast it into the sea, saying, Thus with violence shall that great city Babylon be thrown down, and shall be found no more at all.

Because this earthly place in the middle east called Jerusalem isnt Jerusalem in Gods eyes.

It's Sodom & Egypt Revelation 11:8

Zechariah 14 is the battle of armaggedon and second coming, also seen in Revelation 20:7-9

Zechariah 14:6-8 is the eternal kingdom, after the battle, eternal light & eternal river of life.

Zechariah 14:12 is the last day judgment by the Lords fire, 2 Peter 3:10-13, Malachi 3:2

Douggg · Dec 30, 2017

Truth7t7 said:
Because this earthly place in the middle east called Jerusalem isnt Jerusalem in Gods eyes.

It's Sodom & Egypt Revelation 11:8

Zechariah 14 is the battle of armaggedon and second coming, also seen in Revelation 20:7-9

Zechariah 14:6-8 is the eternal kingdom, after the battle, eternal light & eternal river of life.

Zechariah 14:12 is the last day judgment by the Lords fire, 2 Peter 3:10-13, Malachi 3:2

Jerusalem in the middle east is not Jerusalem in God's eyes? Really ? It seems to me like it is - because in Zechariah 14 God is defending that city and it's inhabitants..

Where is the Mt. of Olives in Zechariah 14:4 located?

4 And his feet shall stand in that day upon the mount of Olives, which is before Jerusalem on the east, and the mount of Olives shall cleave in the midst thereof toward the east and toward the west, and there shall be a very great valley; and half of the mountain shall remove toward the north, and half of it toward the south.

And who are the people who's ancestors lived in the days of Uzziah king of Judah?

5 And ye shall flee to the valley of the mountains; for the valley of the mountains shall reach unto Azal: yea, ye shall flee, like as ye fled from before the earthquake in the days of Uzziah king of Judah: and the LORD my God shall come, and all the saints with thee.

_____________________________________________________________

Babylon the great is not Jerusalem, but it is not Rome either, nor New York, nor the United States.

The great harlot is not Babylon the great. Babylon the great is a mystical city - not a bricks and mortar city.

The great harlot is the Vatican located in Rome.

But the Vatican is not Babylon the Great. Babylon the great is a mystical city and is the mother of all wickedness, and has influenced the Vatican, as well as, all wickedness in the world.... whether it be the Aztecs sacrificing humans, or genocide in some third world country, or the pharisees plot to kill Jesus.

Truth7t7 · Dec 30, 2017

Douggg said:
Jerusalem in the middle east is not Jerusalem in God's eyes? Really ?

Where is the Mt. of Olives in Zechariah 14:4 located?

4 And his feet shall stand in that day upon the mount of Olives, which is before Jerusalem on the east, and the mount of Olives shall cleave in the midst thereof toward the east and toward the west, and there shall be a very great valley; and half of the mountain shall remove toward the north, and half of it toward the south.

And who are the people who's ancestors lived in the days of Uzziah king of Judah?

5 And ye shall flee to the valley of the mountains; for the valley of the mountains shall reach unto Azal: yea, ye shall flee, like as ye fled from before the earthquake in the days of Uzziah king of Judah: and the LORD my God shall come, and all the saints with thee.

Babylon the great is not Jerusalem, but it is not Rome either, nor New York, nor the United States.

The great harlot is not Babylon the great. Babylon the great is a mystical city - not a bricks and mortar city.

Zechariah 14:4 is the last second of this earths history, as 2 Peter 3:10-13 takes place.

Jerusalem Is Mystery Babylon The Great, The Mother Of Harlots.

Douggg · Dec 30, 2017

Truth7t7 said:
Zechariah 14:4 is the last second of this earths history, as 2 Peter 3:10-13 takes place.

Jerusalem Is Mystery Babylon The Great, The Mother Of Harlots.

It is impossible for Jerusalem to be Mystery Babylon the Great....the mother of harlots and abominations on the earth.

Do you think Jerusalem was responsible for the Aztecs sacrificing humans to their god(s) ?

Truth7t7 · Dec 30, 2017

Post deleted, quote problem again

Truth7t7 · Dec 30, 2017

Jerusalem is the harlot, Mystery Babylon the Great.

The Hebrew priest Moses/Aaron wore purple/scarlet Exodus 39, as seen in Revelation 17:4

The harlot is guilty of the "Prophets Blood" Revelation 18:24

Rome didnt exist to be guilty of the Prophets Blood, Jerusalem did. Matthew 23:37

Jerusalem is built on "Seven Hills" just as Rome is.

Mystery Babylon The harlot is identified as "The Great City" in Revelation chapters 17 & 18

"The Great City" is identified as Jerusalem, where the Lord Jesus was crucified Revelation 11:8

The Jews Bow before the Babylonian Talmud & Kabbalah as their Holy books for spiritual guidance.

Jerusalem is Mystery Babylon The Great, The Mother Of Harlots.

Douggg said:
It is impossible for Jerusalem to be Mystery Babylon the Great....the mother of harlots and abominations on the earth.

Do you think Jerusalem was responsible for the Aztecs sacrificing humans to their god(s) ?

Douggg · Dec 30, 2017

Truth7t7 said:
Post deleted, quote problem again

What kind of quote problem are you having?.

Are you aware that you can selectively click and drag your mouse across the specific part of the person's post you want to reply to, highlighting the text, and a little dialog box comes up that says Quote or Reply - choose Reply.

Truth7t7 · Dec 30, 2017

Douggg said:
What kind of quote problem are you having?.

Are you aware that you can selectively click and drag your mouse across the specific part of the person's post you want to reply to, highlighting the text, and a little dialog box comes up that says Quote or Reply - choose Reply.

Im on a cheap mobile phone

Douggg · Dec 30, 2017

Truth7t7 said:
The harlot is guilty of the "Prophets Blood" Revelation 18:24

It doesn't say the harlot is guilty of the Prophets, of the saints, and of all that were slain upon the earth, blood in Revelation 18:24". It is referring to Babylon the great - the mystical city - that is guilty.

The great harlot is nowhere in Revelation 18. The great harlot and Babylon the great are two different things. Although the great harlot has been influenced by Babylon the great.

Truth7t7 · Dec 30, 2017

Douggg said:
It doesn't say the harlot is guilty of the Prophets, of the saints, and of all that were slain upon the earth, blood in Revelation 18:24". It is referring to Babylon the great - the mystical city - that is guilty.

The great harlot is nowhere in Revelation 18. The great harlot and Babylon the great are two different things. Although the great harlot has been influenced by Babylon the great.

We will disagree

Modern Present Jerusalem is Mystery Babylon The Great, The Mother Of Harlots And Abominations.

claninja · Dec 30, 2017

Revealing Times said:
I disagree, the Woman is the Harlot, Babylon the Great is only one of FOUR DESCRIPTORS of which the other three are Mystery, The Mother Of Harlots And Abominations Of The Earth. So a "CLUE" to who the Harlot is is she was co-mingled with Babylon the Great. (Its just one of four clues).

Both the woman and babylon whored with the earth. Both the woman and babylon are referred to as the great city. Both the woman and babylon are punished for the blood of the saints. This is because they are one in the same. The the woman even has the name babylon the great written on her head.

Jesus even tells us who will be punished for the blood of the saints, it is Jerusalem/unfaithful Israel:

that on you may come all the righteous blood being poured out on the earth from the blood of Abel the righteous, unto the blood of Zacharias son of Barachias, whom ye slew between the sanctuary and the altar: 36verily I say to you, all these things shall come upon this generation.
37‘Jerusalem, Jerusalem, that art killing the prophets, and stoning those sent unto thee,

The woman
1.) whored with those of the earth:
Revelation 17:1-2
Come, I will shew to thee the judgment of the great harlot, who is sitting upon the many waters, 2with whom the kings of the earth did commit whoredom; and made drunk from the wine of her whoredom were those inhabiting the earth;
2.) great city
Revelation 17:18
and the woman that thou didst see is the great city that is having reign over the kings of the land.’
3.) punished for blood of saints
Revelation 19:2
because true and righteous [are] His judgments, because He did judge the great harlot who did corrupt the earth in her whoredom, and He did avenge the blood of His servants at her hand

Babylon the Great
1.) whored with those of the earth
Revelation 18:2
Fall, fall did Babylon the great, and she became a habitation of demons, and a hold of every unclean spirit, and a hold of every unclean and hateful bird, 3because of the wine of the wrath of her whoredom have all the nations drunk, and the kings of the earth with her did commit whoredom, and merchants of the earth from the power of her revel were made rich
2.) great city
Revelation 18:10, 21
Wo, wo, the great city! Babylon, the strong city
Thus with violence shall Babylon be cast, the great city,
3.) Punished for the blood of the saints
Revelation 18:24
and in her blood of prophets and of saints was found, and of all those who have been slain on the earth.’

claninja · Dec 30, 2017

Revealing Times said:
John saw the Harlot that represents ALL FALSE RELIGION.

You'll have to provide scripture where the angel clarifies that the Harlot represents ALL FALSE RELIGION then. So far you have not.

claninja · Dec 30, 2017

Revealing Times said:
Yes, which means she is WORLDWIDE. are peoples, multitudes, nations and languages.

No, it means the Jews were surrounded by gentile nations.

Revealing Times said:
YES.........Babylon the Great. Babylon is the CODE WORD for Kingdoms under Satan's rule.

Where does the angel explain to John that Babylon represents satan's rule?

claninja · Dec 30, 2017

Douggg said:
because not only is "Jerusalem/unfaithful Israel" amiss, but it is not a question of "was", but "is", in the context that the ten kings of the end times will destroy the woman.

Unfaithful Israel was destroyed in 70AD, along with the old covenant. There is no longer an old covenant people who exist. There is no old covenant now, even with the present state of Israel. So it definitely is not an "is", it is a "was".

Do you believe the old covenant is still in full effect between the Father and those who are ethnically Jewish?

Douggg said:
Mystery, Babylon the Great is the principality of Satan that influences the woman.

Please provide scripture where the angel explains that babylon is the principality of satan.

Douggg said:
Jerusalem does not sit on many waters. Revelation 17:1 is talking about the woman sitting on many waters.

Were there other Jewish Nations around the world? No, Israel was the Jewish nation that was meant to bring the light to the gentile nations who were all around them.

Douggg said:
Just like the 666 on peoples foreheads, forthcoming, is not indicating that those people themselves are the beast, but that the beast has influenced them.

So it would be where the allegiance lies. I agree with that.

Douggg said:
The woman in Revelation 12 is Israel. And is protected by God.

Agree, this is the OT Israel who was to bring about the messiah.
Revelation 12:1,5
a woman clothed with the sun, with the moon under her feet, and on her head a crown of twelve stars. She gave birth to a male child, one who is to rulea all the nations with a rod of iron, but her child was caught up to God and to his throne,

Genesis 37:9-11
hen he dreamed another dream and told it to his brothers and said, “Behold, I have dreamed another dream. Behold, the sun, the moon, and eleven stars were bowing down to me.” 10But when he told it to his father and to his brothers, his father rebuked him and said to him, “What is this dream that you have dreamed? Shall I and your mother and your brothers indeed come to bow ourselves to the ground before you?” 11And his brothers were jealous of him, but his father kept the saying in mind.

Babylon of Revelation 17-18 was Jerusalem/unfaithful Israel

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