Hypothetical: Creationism becomes standard in science classes

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KWCrazy

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Science contradicts the Bible because the Bible is wrong.
Science doesn't contradict the Bible because science is the study of the physical world. It can't confirm or disprove supernatural happenings.
It was written by men who had a very elementary understanding of the world and universe.
It's actually the inspired word of God.
Do you believe the Noah's Ark story is true
Yes, Christ confirmed it.
or that a man lived inside of a whale?
The Bible says a Great Fish, and who says he was alive before he was coughed up?
Scientifically, we know those things didn't happen.
We know these things defy natural law. Miracles are supposed to do that.
Science doesn't demoralize our lives, it improves our understanding of the world around us.
No, science is a field of study. What it does in relation to our lives depends on how it is applied.
Science isn't proactive in a war against Christianity,
No, ignorance is.
The Bible is as scientific as a nursery rhyme or fairy tale.
I could demonstrate scientific facts from them, actually.
Were you well educated, you would know that the Bible does hint at things science didn't know until hundreds of years later.

Only in recent years has science discovered that everything we see is composed of invisible atoms. Here, Scripture tells us that the "things which are seen were not made of things which do appear."

Medical science has only recently discovered that blood-clotting in a newborn reaches its peak on the eighth day, then drops. The Bible consistently says that a baby must be circumcised on the eighth day.

At a time when it was believed that the earth sat on a large animal or a giant (1500 B.C.), the Bible spoke of the earth’s free float in space: "He...hangs the earth upon nothing" (Job 26:7).

The prophet Isaiah also tells us that the earth is round: "It is he that sits upon the circle of the earth" (Isaiah 40:22). This is not a reference to a flat disk, as some skeptic maintain, but to a sphere. Secular man discovered this 2,400 years later. It was the Scriptures that inspired Christopher Columbus to sail around the world (Proverbs 3:6).

God told Job in 1500 B.C.: "Can you send lightnings, that they may go, and say to you, Here we are?" (Job 38:35). The Bible here is making what appears to be a scientifically ludicrous statement—that light can be sent, and then manifest itself in speech. But did you know that radio waves travel at the speed of light? This is why you can have instantaneous wireless communication with someone on the other side of the earth. Science didn’t discover this until 1864 when "British scientist James Clerk Maxwell suggested that electricity and light waves were two forms of the same thing".

Job 38:19 asks, "Where is the way where light dwells?" Modern man has only recently discovered that light (electromagnetic radiation) has a "way," traveling at 186,000 miles per second.

Science has discovered that stars emit radio waves, which are received on earth as a high pitch. God mentioned this in Job 38:7: "When the morning stars sang together..."

Solomon described a "cycle" of air currents two thousand years before scientists "discovered" them. "The wind goes toward the south, and turns about unto the north; it whirls about continually, and the wind returns again according to his circuits" (Ecclesiastes 1:6).

Science expresses the universe in five terms: time, space, matter, power, and motion. Genesis 1:1,2 revealed such truths to the Hebrews in 1450 B.C.: "In the beginning [time] God created [power] the heaven [space] and the earth [matter] . . . And the Spirit of God moved [motion] upon the face of the waters." The first thing God tells man is that He controls of all aspects of the universe.

The great biological truth concerning the importance of blood in our body’s mechanism has been fully comprehended only in recent years. Up until 120 years ago, sick people were "bled," and many died because of the practice. If you lose your blood, you lose your life. Yet Leviticus 17:11, written 3,000 years ago, declared that blood is the source of life: "For the life of the flesh is in the blood."

Encyclopedia Britannica documents that in 1845, a young doctor in Vienna named Dr. Ignaz Semmelweis was horrified at the terrible death rate of women who gave birth in hospitals. As many as 30 percent died after giving birth. Semmelweis noted that doctors would examine the bodies of patients who died, then, without washing their hands, go straight to the next ward and examine expectant mothers. This was their normal practice, because the presence of microscopic diseases was unknown. Semmelweis insisted that doctors wash their hands before examinations, and the death rate immediately dropped to 2 percent. Look at the specific instructions God gave His people for when they encounter disease: "And when he that has an issue is cleansed of his issue; then he shall number to himself even days for his cleansing, and wash his clothes, and bathe his flesh in running water, and shall be clean" (Leviticus 15:13). Until recent years, doctors washed their hands in a bowl of water, leaving invisible germs on their hands. However, the Bible says specifically to wash hands under "running water."

Luke 17:34–36 says the Second Coming of Jesus Christ will occur while some are asleep at night and others are working at daytime activities in the field. This is a clear indication of a revolving earth, with day and night at the same time.

Nothing in the Bible, however, suggests that God is limited by natural laws.
One day, I'd like to visit the four corners of the Earth.
Four compass points on a map; east, west, south and north. Incidentally, Jesus knew that east and west never met but north and south did 1,500 years before anyone else did.
Personally, if science and Christianity disagree, we should follow science.
Then you are a prisoner of your own ignorance. God, not science, is lord of the universe.
Science is backed up by information, reason, and a process of confirmation. Religion is based on faith with no real backing.
Again, your ignorance of the Lord is showing here.
Suppose I hand you a rock. That rock is in a constant state of decay, so we know it's not eternal. It is comprised of minerals which cannot be created from nothing. Yet it exists. The origination of anything from nothing is impossible and yet if something is in a constant state of decay (or increasing entropy) it had to have a beginning. Science can't explain origination.

God, however, could create that rock by force of will. So you believe in something that has no answer and reject something which does. Logical? Not at all.

Need further proof? Okay. Energy and matter are convertible. God has endless energy. God's energy can convert into matter.

I put Jesus in quotes because we don't really have any information about Jesus from anyone who lived at the time of Jesus.
Millions who have a personal relationship with Jesus would laugh at your ignorance in this statement. You might as well say our neighbor doesn't exist. Just because you lack a complete understanding of reality, it doesn't mean we're all blind.
We have lots of information from many decades to centuries after and no eyewitness accounts of the resurrection.
You realize there were over 500 witnesses, right?
You DO realize that these 500 people could have shouted down any story anyone could make up were it not true, right.... and that the penalty for heresy was execution?
You know that the witnesses went to their grave without denying what they saw, right?
I doubt you could find 500 people who would testify that you exist, which means the resurrection has more evidence than you do.
 
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KWCrazy

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So God carefully positioned photons in space, so that they were close to Earth, even though the stars they were supposedly coming from were tens of thousands of light years away?
Let me put this in terms you can understand.
I write a story. In that story I say, "The light from a million stars illuminated the night."
That's how easy it is for God to do just that. Claiming that a God who just created billions of stars couldn't make them visible is among the dumbest things I've ever read.
 
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Speedwell

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You realize there were over 500 witnesses, right?
You DO realize that these 500 people could have shouted down any story anyone could make up were it not true, right.... and that the penalty for heresy was execution?
You know that the witnesses went to their grave without denying what they saw, right?
I doubt you could find 500 people who would testify that you exist, which means the resurrection has more evidence than you do.
That witness is called Sacred Tradition, which you have previously denounced as unreliable, asserting that our knowledge of the Resurrection comes solely from the Bible.
 
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KWCrazy

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That witness is called Sacred Tradition, which you have previously denounced as unreliable, asserting that our knowledge of the Resurrection comes solely from the Bible.
No, the testimony of the Gospels are part of the Bible. In addition, Christ revealed Himself to Paul, who then realized that the stories he had heard about the resurrected Jesus were true. We also have the revelations of the Holy Spirit.
 
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Subduction Zone

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No, the testimony of the Gospels are part of the Bible. In addition, Christ revealed Himself to Paul, who then realized that the stories he had heard about the resurrected Jesus were true. We also have the revelations of the Holy Spirit.
That does not make them reliable. The "500" witnesses claim is not taken seriously by biblical scholars.
 
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lesliedellow

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Let me put this in terms you can understand.
I write a story. In that story I say, "The light from a million stars illuminated the night."
That's how easy it is for God to do just that. Claiming that a God who just created billions of stars couldn't make them visible is among the dumbest things I've ever read.

And that is one of the dumbest posts I have read.
 
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VirOptimus

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Science doesn't contradict the Bible because science is the study of the physical world. It can't confirm or disprove supernatural happenings.

It's actually the inspired word of God.

Yes, Christ confirmed it.
The Bible says a Great Fish, and who says he was alive before he was coughed up?

We know these things defy natural law. Miracles are supposed to do that.

No, science is a field of study. What it does in relation to our lives depends on how it is applied.

No, ignorance is.

I could demonstrate scientific facts from them, actually.
Were you well educated, you would know that the Bible does hint at things science didn't know until hundreds of years later.

Only in recent years has science discovered that everything we see is composed of invisible atoms. Here, Scripture tells us that the "things which are seen were not made of things which do appear."

Medical science has only recently discovered that blood-clotting in a newborn reaches its peak on the eighth day, then drops. The Bible consistently says that a baby must be circumcised on the eighth day.

At a time when it was believed that the earth sat on a large animal or a giant (1500 B.C.), the Bible spoke of the earth’s free float in space: "He...hangs the earth upon nothing" (Job 26:7).

The prophet Isaiah also tells us that the earth is round: "It is he that sits upon the circle of the earth" (Isaiah 40:22). This is not a reference to a flat disk, as some skeptic maintain, but to a sphere. Secular man discovered this 2,400 years later. It was the Scriptures that inspired Christopher Columbus to sail around the world (Proverbs 3:6).

God told Job in 1500 B.C.: "Can you send lightnings, that they may go, and say to you, Here we are?" (Job 38:35). The Bible here is making what appears to be a scientifically ludicrous statement—that light can be sent, and then manifest itself in speech. But did you know that radio waves travel at the speed of light? This is why you can have instantaneous wireless communication with someone on the other side of the earth. Science didn’t discover this until 1864 when "British scientist James Clerk Maxwell suggested that electricity and light waves were two forms of the same thing".

Job 38:19 asks, "Where is the way where light dwells?" Modern man has only recently discovered that light (electromagnetic radiation) has a "way," traveling at 186,000 miles per second.

Science has discovered that stars emit radio waves, which are received on earth as a high pitch. God mentioned this in Job 38:7: "When the morning stars sang together..."

Solomon described a "cycle" of air currents two thousand years before scientists "discovered" them. "The wind goes toward the south, and turns about unto the north; it whirls about continually, and the wind returns again according to his circuits" (Ecclesiastes 1:6).

Science expresses the universe in five terms: time, space, matter, power, and motion. Genesis 1:1,2 revealed such truths to the Hebrews in 1450 B.C.: "In the beginning [time] God created [power] the heaven [space] and the earth [matter] . . . And the Spirit of God moved [motion] upon the face of the waters." The first thing God tells man is that He controls of all aspects of the universe.

The great biological truth concerning the importance of blood in our body’s mechanism has been fully comprehended only in recent years. Up until 120 years ago, sick people were "bled," and many died because of the practice. If you lose your blood, you lose your life. Yet Leviticus 17:11, written 3,000 years ago, declared that blood is the source of life: "For the life of the flesh is in the blood."

Encyclopedia Britannica documents that in 1845, a young doctor in Vienna named Dr. Ignaz Semmelweis was horrified at the terrible death rate of women who gave birth in hospitals. As many as 30 percent died after giving birth. Semmelweis noted that doctors would examine the bodies of patients who died, then, without washing their hands, go straight to the next ward and examine expectant mothers. This was their normal practice, because the presence of microscopic diseases was unknown. Semmelweis insisted that doctors wash their hands before examinations, and the death rate immediately dropped to 2 percent. Look at the specific instructions God gave His people for when they encounter disease: "And when he that has an issue is cleansed of his issue; then he shall number to himself even days for his cleansing, and wash his clothes, and bathe his flesh in running water, and shall be clean" (Leviticus 15:13). Until recent years, doctors washed their hands in a bowl of water, leaving invisible germs on their hands. However, the Bible says specifically to wash hands under "running water."

Luke 17:34–36 says the Second Coming of Jesus Christ will occur while some are asleep at night and others are working at daytime activities in the field. This is a clear indication of a revolving earth, with day and night at the same time.

Nothing in the Bible, however, suggests that God is limited by natural laws.

Four compass points on a map; east, west, south and north. Incidentally, Jesus knew that east and west never met but north and south did 1,500 years before anyone else did.


Then you are a prisoner of your own ignorance. God, not science, is lord of the universe.

Again, your ignorance of the Lord is showing here.
Suppose I hand you a rock. That rock is in a constant state of decay, so we know it's not eternal. It is comprised of minerals which cannot be created from nothing. Yet it exists. The origination of anything from nothing is impossible and yet if something is in a constant state of decay (or increasing entropy) it had to have a beginning. Science can't explain origination.

God, however, could create that rock by force of will. So you believe in something that has no answer and reject something which does. Logical? Not at all.

Need further proof? Okay. Energy and matter are convertible. God has endless energy. God's energy can convert into matter.


Millions who have a personal relationship with Jesus would laugh at your ignorance in this statement. You might as well say our neighbor doesn't exist. Just because you lack a complete understanding of reality, it doesn't mean we're all blind.

You realize there were over 500 witnesses, right?
You DO realize that these 500 people could have shouted down any story anyone could make up were it not true, right.... and that the penalty for heresy was execution?
You know that the witnesses went to their grave without denying what they saw, right?
I doubt you could find 500 people who would testify that you exist, which means the resurrection has more evidence than you do.

Arguing against physical reality is a loosimg proposition and quite frankly, stupid.
 
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AV1611VET

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Why do you believe the Bible is the word of God? I would like to hear your story.
Here we go again.

Do I really have to repeat myself and say this a third time?

This is why ...

1 Thessalonians 2:13 For this cause also thank we God without ceasing, because, when ye received the word of God which ye heard of us, ye received it not as the word of men, but as it is in truth, the word of God, which effectually worketh also in you that believe.

That's my story, and I'm sticking to it.
Science contradicts the Bible because the Bible is wrong.
You're entitled to your opinion.
It was written by men who had a very elementary understanding of the world and universe.
You betch'um! :oldthumbsup:

Acts 4:13 Now when they saw the boldness of Peter and John, and perceived that they were unlearned and ignorant men, they marvelled; and they took knowledge of them, that they had been with Jesus.
Do you believe there is a firmament that separates the waters above from the waters below?
Yes ... it is called the atmosphere.

And for the record, those 'waters above' came to earth during the Flood, then were siphoned off elsewhere into the solar system.
Do you believe the Noah's Ark story is true or that a man lived inside of a whale?
I believe the Noah's Ark story is true, and I believe Jonah died inside the whale.
Scientifically, we know those things didn't happen.
Slow down, chief, and let me answer before you venerate your godawful science.

I said I believe Jonah died inside the whale, and have said so here before.
Science doesn't demoralize our lives, it improves our understanding of the world around us.
You're not looking at both sides of the coin.

I too believe what you just said; but there's a dark side to science as well.
Science isn't proactive in a war against Christianity, people are.
And those "people" are scientists, aren't they?
The Bible is as scientific as a nursery rhyme or fairy tale.
Expecting the Bible to be a science book is like expecting Bill Gate's diary to be a computer manual.
One day, I'd like to visit the four corners of the Earth.
What's keeping you back?
If you take a belief based on faith, does that mean it is a true belief?
If it passes my Boolean standards, I'd say YES.

If it fails to pass my Boolean standards, I'd say NO.
Or could you believe anything based on faith?
You can believe anything based on faith: as Shoko Asahara, Herb Applewhite, Vernon Howell, Jim Jones, Martin Luther, John Calvin, Charles Darwin, Adolf Hitler, et.al. demonstrated.
Personally, if science and Christianity disagree, we should follow science.
That violates my second standard.

1. Bible says X, science says X = go with X
2. Bible says X, science says Y = go with X
3. Bible says Ø, science says Y = go with Y
4. Bible says Ø, science says Ø = speculate
Science is backed up by information, reason, and a process of confirmation.
Ya, and my bowels back up every once in awhile too, and I get constipated.
Religion is based on faith with no real backing.
I totally disagree.

Ever heard of the Christo Redentor? the statue of Buddha? the Taj Mahal? the Crusades? the Inquisition? martyrs? God Rest Ye Merry, Gentlemen? GOD IS MY PILOT? IN GOD WE TRUST? ONE NATION UNDER GOD? crosses on foreign flags?
I put Jesus in quotes because we don't really have any information about Jesus from anyone who lived at the time of Jesus. We have lots of information from many decades to centuries after and no eyewitness accounts of the resurrection.
Smart answer. I thought you were gonna say something else.

And before I end this post: MERRY CHRISTMAS! :oldthumbsup:
 
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Ajflyguy7

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Here we go again.

Do I really have to repeat myself and say this a third time?

This is why ...

1 Thessalonians 2:13 For this cause also thank we God without ceasing, because, when ye received the word of God which ye heard of us, ye received it not as the word of men, but as it is in truth, the word of God, which effectually worketh also in you that believe.

That's my story, and I'm sticking to it.

You're entitled to your opinion.

You betch'um! :oldthumbsup:

Acts 4:13 Now when they saw the boldness of Peter and John, and perceived that they were unlearned and ignorant men, they marvelled; and they took knowledge of them, that they had been with Jesus.

Yes ... it is called the atmosphere.

And for the record, those 'waters above' came to earth during the Flood, then were siphoned off elsewhere into the solar system.

I believe the Noah's Ark story is true, and I believe Jonah died inside the whale.

Slow down, chief, and let me answer before you venerate your godawful science.

I said I believe Jonah died inside the whale, and have said so here before.

You're not looking at both sides of the coin.

I too believe what you just said; but there's a dark side to science as well.

And those "people" are scientists, aren't they?

Expecting the Bible to be a science book is like expecting Bill Gate's diary to be a computer manual.

What's keeping you back?

If it passes my Boolean standards, I'd say YES.

If it fails to pass my Boolean standards, I'd say NO.

You can believe anything based on faith: as Shoko Asahara, Herb Applewhite, Vernon Howell, Jim Jones, Martin Luther, John Calvin, Charles Darwin, Adolf Hitler, et.al. demonstrated.

That violates my second standard.

1. Bible says X, science says X = go with X
2. Bible says X, science says Y = go with X
3. Bible says Ø, science says Y = go with Y
4. Bible says Ø, science says Ø = speculate

Ya, and my bowels back up every once in awhile too, and I get constipated.

I totally disagree.

Ever heard of the Christo Redentor? the statue of Buddha? the Taj Mahal? the Crusades? the Inquisition? martyrs? God Rest Ye Merry, Gentlemen? GOD IS MY PILOT? IN GOD WE TRUST? ONE NATION UNDER GOD? crosses on foreign flags?

Smart answer. I thought you were gonna say something else.

And before I end this post: MERRY CHRISTMAS! :oldthumbsup:

So, you believe the Bible is true because it says it is true? If I told you that I were really Jesus, would you believe that this is the second coming?

Lol, you think that water surrounded the Earth and came down to cause a worldwide flood? Then was siphoned off afterward? Did the aliens get a big straw and suck the water out? You don't see any other issues with the Noah's Ark story (Noah's age, getting the animals on the Ark, feeding the animals, separating the animals, cleaning up after the animals, Noah building the largest wooden ship ever without modern technology, the Ark not breaking into pieces, animals getting back to their proper climates, fish living in a drastically changed environment whether it be saltiness or temperature, etc.).

Since the Bible isn't a science book, why would you believe it over science when they disagree? That doesn't make any sense.

You still didn't provide any backing for your belief in the Bible, only the Bible says its true, so it must be.

Don't worry, Merry Christmas doesn't offend me. It's just a repackaged pagan holiday that has been commercialized by large corporations. It isn't really a celebration of Jesus.
 
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KWCrazy

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Arguing against physical reality is a loosimg proposition and quite frankly, stupid.
Not quite as stupid as rejecting God's word, but we each have the right to decide where we put our faith; in the word of God or in the theories of man.
 
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Subduction Zone

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Not quite as stupid as rejecting God's word, but we each have the right to decide where we put out faith; in the word of God or in the theories of man.

The Bible does not even claim to be the "word of God". The references to the "word of God" in the Bible are never about the Bible. They are just fuzzy references to the supposed idea that one will know the "word of God" when one comes across it. The countless different sects of Christianity are testimony to the fact that the Bible is not the "word of God" but merely man written texts about God at best. Putting the Bible on a false pedestal is making an idol of it, something banned in the Second Commandment.
 
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KWCrazy

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Arguing against physical reality is a loosimg proposition and quite frankly, stupid.
Heres a physical reality for you.
Science tells us that energy/matter cannot be created or destroyed, only changed in form. So the universe could not have a beginning.
Science tells us that the entire universe is in a state of decay and will one day be a soup of more or less evenly dispersed energy. So the universe is not eternal. It's finite. It has an end.... but it couldn't have a beginning. So what happens before the beginning?
Before anything there is nothing. In nothingness there is no heat energy and so nothing happens. Ever. Beginning with nothing you have nothing for eternity. Since it could have no beginning and it is not eternal, the universe therefore does not exist.
 
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lesliedellow

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You should really read your own posts. I find them quite hilarious.

Oh come now, I couldn't hope to compete with the real comedian around here - your good self.
 
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Subduction Zone

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Heres a physical reality for you.
Science tells us that energy/matter cannot be created or destroyed, only changed in form. So the universe could not have a beginning.


Actually it tells us that the total amount of energy cannot change. Do you have any idea what the total energy of the universe is?

Science tells us that the entire universe is in a state of decay and will one day be a soup of more or less evenly dispersed energy. So the universe is not eternal. It's finite. It has an end.... but it couldn't have a beginning. So what happens before the beginning?

The universe as we know it had a beginning. There may not have been a "before the beginning". Unanswered questions are never an excuse to invoke a god.

Before anything there is nothing. In nothingness there is no heat energy and so nothing happens. Ever. Beginning with nothing you have nothing for eternity. Since it could have no beginning and it is not eternal, the universe therefore does not exist.

There may not have been an "eternity". Time may have begun with the universe. Again, you are relying on the unknown to support your beliefs and the unknown supports everything and nothing. It is a worthless base for your arguments.
 
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