Bible Sabbath vs week-day-1 observance in the Bible

Ronald Rose said:

G-D DOES NOT CHANGE

1 ) ""from week day one to week-day one shall all mankind come before Me to worship" as we have in Is 66:23 for the Bible 7th day Sabbath."

Does not say that, no change in Sabbath, it only say's "All humanity will come to worship me from week to week and from month to month," period.

2 ) ""Week-day one was made for mankind.. the Son of man is LORD of week day 1" as we have in Mark 2:27-28 for the Bible 7th day Sabbath"

No change in the Sabbath, it merely states that G-D made it, made it holy, set it apart, for man. Also you seem top like tossing in week day one into your discussion, why is that?

3 ) "Remember week-day-1 to keep it holy" as we have in Ex 20:8 for the Bible 7th day Sabbath"

There you go again with the week day 1 again, it merely states "Remember the sabbath day, sanctify it and to keep it holy"

4 ) "week day 1 is the Holy day of the Lord" as we have in Isaiah 58:13 for the Bible 7th day Sabbath"

Nothing about week day 1. It simply states "Keep the Sabbath day holy. Don't pursue your own interests on that day, but enjoy the Sabbath and speak of it with delight as the LORD's holy day. Honor the Sabbath in everything you do on that day, and don't follow your own desires or talk idly."

5 ) "the next week day 1 - nearly the entire town came together to hear Gospel preaching" as we have in Acts 13 for the Bible 7th day Sabbath."

Does not say "the next weekday 1," it states "On the next Sabbath almost the whole city gathered to hear the word of the Lord.

6)

This verse in context is prior to line item 5. again nothing on "the next weekday 1," it states "And when the Jews were gone out of the synagogue, the Gentiles besought that these words might be preached to them the next Sabbath."

OK I am done, create a factual argument instead of a straw man one, it will be better received.

Click to expand...

Your statement is true of course.

My point was that there are no week-day-1 texts like that... instead they are all "Sabbath" texts... so then - the Bible Sabbath and not week-day-1.

And of course "The SEVENTH day is the Sabbath of the LORD thy God" Exodus -- not week-day-1.

My whole point is that we DO have all those texts for the Bible Sabbath - and not one shred of it for "week day 1" -- Sunday.

And of course in Isaiah 66:23 the weekly "Sabbath" that Isaiah references is one that both he and his readers would know about. The entire principle of "exegesis" demands that we take that into consideration when interpreting the text as intended by the author.

in Christ,

Bob

graphite412 said:

I should also add that the Church is also one. There is one Body, one church, not many.

Ephesians 4:3-6
3 Endeavouring to keep the unity of the Spirit in the bond of peace.
4 There is one body, and one Spirit, even as ye are called in one hope of your calling;
5 One Lord, one faith, one baptism,
6 One God and Father of all, who is above all, and through all, and in you all.

Also
1 Corinthians 10:17King James Version (KJV)
17 For we being many are one bread, and one body: for we are all partakers of that one bread.

Click to expand...

In the NT the Christians were viewed as a "sect" of Judaism - Paul agreed. Do you also agree?

[Staff edit]

1. The Saturday Sabbath is part of the Old Covenant.

Click to expand...

Hint: So is "Do not take God's name in vain" -- all of them written in stone.

next.

It was given expressly to the Jews and to national Israel. Scripture says

Click to expand...

So is the NEW Covenant - Jeremiah 31:31-33

So is the command to not take God's name in vain as we see in Exodus 20:1-7 expressly given to Israel whom God freed from Egypt.

Isaiah 56:1-8 GENTILES specifically blessed for keeping the Sabbath.
Isaiah 66:23 "ALL MANKIND" to come before God "from Sabbath to Sabbath" to worship.

Bible details 'matter'

next.

2. The Sabbath did not even exist as a law of worship until given to Moses in the desert. Therefore, righteous Abraham did not observe it according to the scriptural record. Of course, you will probably want to argue from silence to keep your dogma intact.

Click to expand...

"Do not take the name of the Lord Thy God in vain" was not 'written' before that - but it was still true.

And Christ Himself says the Sabbath was "MADE for MANKIND" Mark 2:27 when both MANKIND and the SABBATH were made.

4. Scripture says that the first Christians met on the first day of the week to break bread (Eucharist).
Act 20:7 And upon the first day of the week, when the disciples came together to break bread, Paul preached unto them, ready to depart on the morrow; and continued his speech until midnight.

Click to expand...

Scripture is clear that Acts 20:7 is not the first time they met - in fact Acts 2 they meet every day to break bread - but not every day was Sabbath.

Acts 13:49 Jews and Gentiles meeting Sabbath after Sabbath for Gospel preaching
Acts 17:4 - Jews and Gentiles meeting Sabbath after Sabbath after Sabbath for Gospel preaching
Acts 18:4 - Jews and Gentiles meet "EVERY SABBATH" for gospel preaching.

Long before the ONE incident in Acts 20:7 to bid Paul farewell as he plans all-day-travel on week-day-1.

Light of the East said:

5. Look at this verse: Matt. 28:1: ὀψὲ δὲ σαββάτων (sabbath) τῇ ἐπιφωσκούσῃ εἰς μίαν σαββάτων (sabbath) ἦλθενΜαριὰμ ἡ Μαγδαληνὴ καὶ ἡ ἄλλη Μαρία θεωρῆσαι τὸν τάφον

I just noted something fascinating there, something you wouldn't see in the atrocious KJV translation.
It is translated this way in the KJV:

Mat 28:1 In the end of the sabbath, as it began to dawn toward the first day of the week, came Mary Magdalene and the other Mary to see the sepulchre.

This is how it reads in the Greek: In the end of the sabbath, as it began to dawn toward the sabbath, came Mary Magdalene and the other Mary to see the sepulchre.

Click to expand...

Harold Camping already tried that one out - it is atrocious translating because both Greek and Hebrew are 'high context' languages - unlike English. It is a novice mistake.

It would turn Luke 18:12s into "I fast twice a Sabbath" fast twice a week.

This is what it means: (proper interpretation) In the end of the sabbath of the Jews, the sabbath of the Old Covenant , as it began to dawn toward the new sabbath, the sabbath of the New Covenant, came Mary Magdalene and the other Mary to see the sepulchre.

Go. Look it up yourself. Don't take my word for it. I'm just a Papist.

Click to expand...

Your own church argues for the continuation of the TEN commandments - all TEN - as the moral law of God ... and it is your church that claims they "transferred" the legal authority of the Sabbath from God's seventh-day to man's first day.

But as far as I know they never resort to the Harold Camping solution you just tried in Matthew 28.

Episaw said:

If you have studied New Testament History (which I have over 40 books) you will soon work out that the New Testament Church (NTC) met on Saturday for the following reasons.

One. The NTC were not christians. They were Jewish members of "The Way", a branch of Judaism.

Click to expand...

Not sure what you mean "were not Christians" -- they were "first called Christians in Antioch"

Acts 11: 25 And he (Barnabas) left for Tarsus to look for Saul; 26 and when he had found him, he brought him to Antioch. And for an entire year they met with the church and taught considerable numbers; and the disciples were first called Christians in Antioch.

Do you mean that "Bible Christians are not the same as what is popularly called Christian today"??

Or do you mean that it is the Jewish Christian church in Jerusalem that is the head of the NTC and so Paul is right to call it a sect of Judaism. Same Bible, same God, same Messiah as predicted in the OT etc, same desire to worship in the Synagogues and Temple.

Acts 13 Paul walks into a non-Christian synagogue and what do they say to the Pharisee - Paul? "brethren if you have any word for us please come and speak".

Two. The NTC in Acts was made up entirely of Jews.

Click to expand...

This is not strictly true because we find gentiles being converted in Acts 13, Acts 17:1-6, Acts 18:3-8 and we see a big problem in Acts 15:1-3 with so many gentiles coming into the church that they need to be very clear on the fact that gentile Christians do not have to become Jews.

Three. Jews met on the Saturday Sabbath as they were instructed according to Jewish Law (10 Commandments).

Click to expand...

True - also true of "Jewish Christians" which may be your point.

Four. The NTC "The Way" made up of Jews would have no concept of meeting on Sunday.

Click to expand...

True - the NTC would have no motivation to worship on Sunday as if there was some sort of 7 day cycle to the resurrection of Christ.

Five. A Jew worked on Sunday. In Judaism, Sunday was a working day (no two day weekend break).

Click to expand...

True. Pagan Roman empire had Sunday and when Constantine converted there was an effort to join the two - so that both Saturday and Sunday were being considered days off of work among Christians.

Six. As all of Judaism has Saturday off work (in actual fact Friday sunset to Saturday Sunset) and there is no indication in scripture that the Messianic Jews of "The Way" did otherwise, so logic tells you that they continued the Jewish practice of worshipping on Saturday.

Click to expand...

Also true.

Seven. A clear indication that they continued Jewish practice is that we are told they still met in the Jewish temple. If they considered themselves no longer Jewish but "christian" they would not have done this.

Click to expand...

True. Irrefutable.

And in Acts 15 part of the "solution" to the gentile problem is stated to be that "Moses is heard every Sabbath in the synagogues" notice it does not say "in the Temple" - because the issue is gentile lands, gentile converts to Christianity.

Until it is, then we need to adhere to the obvious and meet on Saturday. After all, t is not going to destroy our faith if we do. All it will do is bruise a few egos that have built their doctrine on error.

Click to expand...

Well said.

Unit 11 said:

I've always heard that Christendom in general changed the Sabbath day "in honor of Christ's resurrection," and kind of, sort of based this on Acts 20:7. (Now on the first day of the week, when the disciples came together to break bread...)

Reading this, I think, okay, they broke bread and everything, but who decided to change the worship day based on this?

Click to expand...

Acts 20 is a one time meeting and the text says it was because Paul was leaving the next day.

Acts 2 says this -- 46 And they, continuing daily with one accord in the temple, and breaking bread from house to house, did eat their meat with gladness and singleness of heart,

In the Temple - AND breaking bread from house to house -- daily.

They were not deleting the Ten Commandments.
They were breaking bread together daily.

And then there is that one time meeting in Acts 20:7-8.

So for years I've counted Saturday as the Sabbath.

Click to expand...

So then the entire NT church was keeping the Bible Sabbath - Saturday - the Sabbath Commandment just as God gave. Nice for them (of course and would be nice for us if we did it too)

But given that fact -- what then of Mark 7:6-13 -- what does it mean in our day?

Mark 7

7 Howbeit in vain do they worship me, teaching for doctrines the commandments of men.
8 For laying aside the Commandment of God, ye hold the tradition of men, as the washing of pots and cups: and many other such like things ye do.
9 And he said unto them, Full well ye reject the commandment of God, that ye may keep your own tradition.
10 For Moses said, Honour thy father and thy mother; and, Whoso curseth father or mother, let him die the death:
11 But ye say, If a man shall say to his father or mother, It is Corban, that is to say, a gift, by whatsoever thou mightest be profited by me; he shall be free.
12 And ye suffer him no more to do ought for his father or his mother;
13 Making the Word of God of none effect through your tradition, which ye have delivered: and many such like things do ye.

James 2
8 If you really fulfill the royal law according to the Scripture, “You shall love your neighbor as yourself,” you do well;
9 but if you show partiality, you commit sin, and are convicted by THE Law as transgressors.
10 For whoever shall keep the whole Law, and yet stumble in one point, he is guilty of all.
11 For He who said, “Do not commit adultery,” also said, “Do not murder.” Now if you do not commit adultery, but you do murder, you have become a transgressor of THE Law. 12 So speak and so do as those who will be judged by the law of liberty.

It based on "He who said"

Here are some examples of how they used the term "sect"

Acts 24:14
But this I admit to you, that according to the Way which they call a sect I do serve the God of our fathers, believing everything that is in accordance with the Law and that is written in the Prophets;

Acts 26:5
since they have known about me for a long time, if they are willing to testify, that I lived as a Pharisee according to the strictest sect of our religion.

Acts 28:22
But we desire to hear from you what your views are; for concerning this sect, it is known to us that it is spoken against everywhere.”

graphite412 said:

I would say that using the Bible to argue with a Catholic of the proper day to observe the Sabbath doesn't quite matter in the long run. From a protestant perspective you have to find prof in the Bible to warrant a change, but for a Catholic all they need is a proper council to change the day.

Click to expand...

True.

The Jews had the same system. Their traditions were said to be infallible.

But in their case they also had this - e they were in fact the one true nation-church started by God at Sinai with a God-ordained method of selecting successors to the priesthood. Pretty impressive.

AND YET - Mark 7:6-13 shows that even they were in error when exalting their traditions to a level that messed around with one of the Commandments of God.


Mark 7

7 Howbeit in vain do they worship me, teaching for doctrines the commandments of men.
8 For laying aside the Commandment of God, ye hold the tradition of men, as the washing of pots and cups: and many other such like things ye do.
9 And he said unto them, Full well ye reject the commandment of God, that ye may keep your own tradition.
10 For Moses said, Honour thy father and thy mother; and, Whoso curseth father or mother, let him die the death:
11 But ye say, If a man shall say to his father or mother, It is Corban, that is to say, a gift, by whatsoever thou mightest be profited by me; he shall be free.
12 And ye suffer him no more to do ought for his father or his mother;
13 Making the Word of God of none effect through your tradition, which ye have delivered: and many such like things do ye.

James 2
8 If you really fulfill the royal law according to the Scripture, “You shall love your neighbor as yourself,” you do well;
9 but if you show partiality, you commit sin, and are convicted by THE Law as transgressors.
10 For whoever shall keep the whole Law, and yet stumble in one point, he is guilty of all.
11 For He who said, “Do not commit adultery,” also said, “Do not murder.” Now if you do not commit adultery, but you do murder, you have become a transgressor of THE Law. 12 So speak and so do as those who will be judged by the law of liberty.

It based on "He who said"


Eph 6:2
2 “Honor your father and mother,” which is the first commandment with promise:

graphite412 said:

Well for a large part of Christendom, this is even more so the case in the new testament. There is a God ordained method of ordination and lists of qualifications with also the laying on of hands in the new testament for ordination and the bestowal of grace upon those who are ordained.

Click to expand...

But what is "not even more so" today is that you have all denominations today and all Jews agreeing that God started the Hebrew nation-church at Sinai with God-ordained methods for selecting the successor to Moses, and to the High Priest.... but we do NOT have agreement among all denominations that any one denomination today is in fact the true denomination started by God on Pentecost. Various groups claim that distinction but here is no one group for whom it is true that all the present denominations agree to that one group being "the one". It simply is not true. And this is irrefutable.

Which makes Mark 7 all the more important -- because it is being applied against the only church magisterium that we DO all agree was infallibly started by the voice of God Himself.

BobRyan said:

So then the entire NT church was keeping the Bible Sabbath - Saturday - the Sabbath Commandment just as God gave. Nice for them (of course and would be nice for us if we did it too)

But given that fact -- what then of Mark 7:6-13 -- what does it mean in our day?

Mark 7

7 Howbeit in vain do they worship me, teaching for doctrines the commandments of men.
8 For laying aside the Commandment of God, ye hold the tradition of men, as the washing of pots and cups: and many other such like things ye do.
9 And he said unto them, Full well ye reject the commandment of God, that ye may keep your own tradition.
10 For Moses said, Honour thy father and thy mother; and, Whoso curseth father or mother, let him die the death:
11 But ye say, If a man shall say to his father or mother, It is Corban, that is to say, a gift, by whatsoever thou mightest be profited by me; he shall be free.
12 And ye suffer him no more to do ought for his father or his mother;
13 Making the Word of God of none effect through your tradition, which ye have delivered: and many such like things do ye.

James 2
8 If you really fulfill the royal law according to the Scripture, “You shall love your neighbor as yourself,” you do well;
9 but if you show partiality, you commit sin, and are convicted by THE Law as transgressors.
10 For whoever shall keep the whole Law, and yet stumble in one point, he is guilty of all.
11 For He who said, “Do not commit adultery,” also said, “Do not murder.” Now if you do not commit adultery, but you do murder, you have become a transgressor of THE Law. 12 So speak and so do as those who will be judged by the law of liberty.

It based on "He who said"

Click to expand...

Unit 11 said:

I won't get into a debate about how important this particular change is, but still--why on Earth is it needed? What was ever wrong with Saturday?

Click to expand...

ok fine .. no debate -- but those texts point to a basic element in Christian existence.