Douggg
anytime rapture, non-dispensationalist, futurist
- May 28, 2009
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Doug, I am glad we agree that the 6th Seal and 7th vial are not the same event. But I do disagree with a few of your points:
The sixth seal takes place over a very short period of time. imo, between 8 and 12 hrs. When the universe is rolled up like a scroll the world will see heaven where God dwells. So the sun darkening/moon turning red/universe parting and the appearance of Jesus before the throne of God could be considered one event. That takes place 45 days before Jesus descends to this earth as described in Revelation 19.
The seventh vial takes place during that 45 days interval, near the end of it.
If you don't know where I am getting the 45 days, how do you know that it can't be accurate ? I will explain where I am getting the 45 days.45 days -- I don't know where you get this time frame from. If you agree that the seals, trumpets and vials happen in sequence then the 45 days cannot be accurate.
In Daniel 12, the 1335th day from the setting up of the AOD, if a person remains faithful and doesn't worship the AOD, then that person will be blessed on that 1335th day.
So the 1335th day is the day that Jesus returns as described in Revelation 19.
Since the 7 years is 2520 days long, it is simply a matter of subtracting from day 2520 the 1335 days to determined when the AOD is setup to be worshiped. It turns out to be on day 1185. btw, all of the days are measured from the time the AC confirms the covenant which is day 1.
Therefore on day 1185 the AOD is setup to be worshiped, and the Jews start fleeing to the mountains. During their escape, the two witnesses are fighting the AC for 75 days until they are overcome and killed on day 1260.
Getting back to the 45 days. The AOD is setup on day 1185 (2520-1335). In Daniel 12, it doesn't say what happens at the end of the 1290 days. It is my opinion, what will happen is that the world will see the sign of Jesus,
which triggers the world to gather its armies together at Armageddon.
So day 1185 (AOD setup day) + 1290 days = day 2475 or 45 days right before day 2520 (Jesus's return to this earth day). On day 2475, the sixth seal takes place, which I have already point out takes place over a 8-12 hour period. revealing Jesus in great power and glory before the throne of God.
From that point, the sixth vial the part about the AC, FP and Satan convincing the kings of the earth to band their armies together to fight Jesus.
NJ, the two witnesses testify from day 1 to day 1260. Those 1260 days correspond to Revelation 12:6 the 1260 days in that verse.The 2 witnesses are killed after preaching for 1,260 days (or 3 1/e Hebrew years). When they are resurrected and raptured 3 1/2 days later we are at the end of the 6th trumpet (aka the "second woe").
After the 1260 days, in Revelation 12, there is the war in heaven. Satan is kicked down with a time, times and half times left.
The first woe is Satan, having been cast down, opens the bottomeless pit (fifth trumpet)
The second woe is the 200,000,000 strong army that kills a third of mankind (sixth trumpet). imo, the kings of the east marching to the middleeast to battle the AC.
The third woe is the vials of wrath that God pours out.
The seals have all been opened as a matter of revealing to us the future. But not as a matter of fulfillment. None of them have been fulfilled or even started.This is the midpoint of the 70th week (which is 7 Hebrew years). The 6th Seal sets everything into motion because the Day of The Lord and the 70th week do not start until after it's opened. So the time between the 6th seal and the 6th trumpet is much more than 45 days.
The 70th week will begin when the AC confirms the covenant (Mt. Sinai covenant imo) with many.
It is by the reaction of those who are terrified. They will be able to see the throne of God, in blinding light, and the Lamb of God coming forth from that throne.Seeing Jesus and His armies -- You said that people of the Earth will see Jesus at the 6th Seal. Where is this ever said? There is no mention of Jesus returning at the 6th Seal, or His armies.
The sixth seal is about the sign of the Son of man's coming in heaven. His actual descent to earth as described in Revelation 19 takes place 45 days after the sign appears.16 And said to the mountains and rocks, Fall on us, and hide us from the face of him that sitteth on the throne, and from the wrath of the Lamb:
17 For the great day of his wrath is come; and who shall be able to stand?
Jesus's coming (descending to this earth) is after the Sign.
The Sign of the Son of Man in heaven, that precedes his coming in the clouds is found in the sequence of events in Matthew 24:29-30 and in Revelation 6, the sixth seal.
29 Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:
30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: .......
In progression....after events 1, 2, 3, 4, in Matthew 24:29.... then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven....after which, is Jesus coming in the clouds.
1. Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened
2. and the moon shall not give her light
3. and the stars shall fall from heaven
4. and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:
5. And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven:
Now look at the sixth seal in Revelation 6...same sequence, but here we are revealed what the Sign will be.
1. and the sun became black as sackcloth of hair
2. and the moon became as blood
3. And the stars of heaven fell unto the earth, even as a fig tree casteth her untimely figs, when she is shaken of a mighty wind.
4. And the heaven departed as a scroll when it is rolled together; and every mountain and island were moved out of their places.
5. And said to the mountains and rocks, Fall on us, and hide us from the face of him that sitteth on the throne, and from the wrath of the Lamb:
The Sign of the Son of Man in heaven... is that the world is going to see Jesus in heaven before the throne of God.
There is not going to be any stars, no cosmos... no nothing between earth and heaven where God's throne is. That is the sign. There is not going to be any question. It is going to be beyond comprehension. Oh, what a day, what a day that is going to be! Especially to them who have been persecuted by the Antichrist.
30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.
After the world sees the Sign,and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and from Revelation 16, the armies of the world will gather at Armageddon and prepare to stop Jesus from returning. Once they have gathered together, Jesus comes in the clouds of heaven in great glory back to earth accompanied with armies of His saints, as Lord of Lords and King of Kings, to defeat them and the AC and FP.
Doug L.
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