All Jews will be raised up at the 2nd coming.

Billy Evmur

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The church [Jew/Gentile] will be raptured but all other Jews will be raised from the dead.
Dan. 12:1.
At that time shall arise Michael the great prince who has charge of your people. And there shall be a time of trouble such as never has been since there was a nation till that time, but at that time your people shall be delivered, everyone whose name shall be found written in the book.

And many of those who sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake some to everlasting life and some to shame and everlasting contempt. And those who are wise shall shine like the brightness of the firmament and those who turn many to righteousness like the stars forever and ever.
*
We see that this happens at the time of the great tribulation and after God has delivered the Jews but it is not the general or last resurrection, it gives context to Paul's statement that "all Israel will be saved" but certainly we have here a nation of Israel after the church is gone who will go into the Millennial age, reigning on earth with Messiah Jesus.

It corresponds to Ezekiel's valley of dry bones.
 

eleos1954

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The church [Jew/Gentile] will be raptured but all other Jews will be raised from the dead.
Dan. 12:1.
At that time shall arise Michael the great prince who has charge of your people. And there shall be a time of trouble such as never has been since there was a nation till that time, but at that time your people shall be delivered, everyone whose name shall be found written in the book.

And many of those who sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake some to everlasting life and some to shame and everlasting contempt. And those who are wise shall shine like the brightness of the firmament and those who turn many to righteousness like the stars forever and ever.
*
We see that this happens at the time of the great tribulation and after God has delivered the Jews but it is not the general or last resurrection, it gives context to Paul's statement that "all Israel will be saved" but certainly we have here a nation of Israel after the church is gone who will go into the Millennial age, reigning on earth with Messiah Jesus.

It corresponds to Ezekiel's valley of dry bones.
Galatians (and the New Testament) we see “the Israel of God” in Galatians 6:16 as a reference to the unified people of God consisting of both Jews and Gentiles who have faith in Jesus Christ.

Jesus is the true Israel .... not the country. It's a spiritual condition not a physical one.
 
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Billy Evmur

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Galatians (and the New Testament) we see “the Israel of God” in Galatians 6:16 as a reference to the unified people of God consisting of both Jews and Gentiles who have faith in Jesus Christ.

Jesus is the true Israel .... not the country. It's a spiritual condition not a physical one.
They still have promises yet unfulfilled

We are made fellow citizens of their commonwealth and heirs of the promises. All of God's covenants have been made to the Jews including the New Covenant.

it is not wise or comely for the church to vaunt herself against the Jews.
 
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eleos1954

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They still have promises yet unfulfilled

We are made fellow citizens of their commonwealth and heirs of the promises. All of God's covenants have been made to the Jews including the New Covenant.

it is not wise or comely for the church to vaunt herself against the Jews.
The "new covenant" is not brand new .... it is the old covenant renewed. The promise was made to Abram (before the formation of Israel) and through Jesus we are heirs to the promises made to him.

All promises (covenants) are fulfilled through Jesus alone. The nation (people of Israel) failed to keep covenant with God. They trusted in the system rather than WHO the system was about (Jesus). The intent was for the nation of Israel was to be the light to the whole world. They failed due to their error of not including others into the faith. He did protect the early nation of Israel because it was through that lineage that the Messiah would come.

Galatians 3

Verses 28 to 29[28] There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither slave nor free, there is neither male nor female; for you are all one in Christ Jesus. [29] And if you are Christ's, then you are Abraham's offspring, heirs according to promise.

If there aren't any jews then there is not a jewish nation ... all are one in Christ ... it don't matter what nation one is from. All is in Jesus.

The ultimate fulfillment of the Abrahamic covenant comes in Jesus Christ, the true “offspring” of Abraham (Galatians 3:16). Those who are in Christ are now also considered “Abraham's offspring” and heirs of the covenant promises through the new covenant. It's not a new covenant it is a better covenant .... the old made better.

Hebrews 8:6-9 NKJVBut now He has obtained a more excellent ministry, inasmuch as He is also Mediator of a better covenant, which was established on better promises. For if that first covenant had been faultless, then no place would have been sought for a second.

Better covenant ... not new. The old covenant made better.

It wasn't that the old covenant had flaws .... the people had flaws .... the better was knowing one is saved through Jesus (better promises) and not a religious system the sacrifice of animals (in which there is no redemption) .... but the willing sacrifice of Himself.

Having this knowledge does not make one against the Jews or anyone else for that matter.

We are called to get the gospel of Jesus out that one (anyone) might be saved (through Him) regardless of their ethnicity ..... Jesus don't play favorites with people groups (never has) .... He wants all to come to Him because everything is fulfilled through Him nothing else or no one else.

As far as the modern day nation of Israel is concerned .... any nation has the right to protect themselves .... and I stand with them in that regard. They were viciously attacked and the intent is genocide of Jewish people.

If looking for the modern day nation of Israel to fulfill prophecy one is looking in the wrong place ... all prophecy (past, present, future) is fulfilled through Jesus alone ... not through any ethnic people group.

Romans 2

11 For God does not show favoritism. 12 All who sin apart from the law will also perish apart from the law, and all who sin under the law will be judged by the law.
 
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Billy Evmur

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The "new covenant" is not brand new .... it is the old covenant renewed. The promise was made to Abram (before the formation of Israel) and through Jesus we are heirs to the promises made to him.

All promises (covenants) are fulfilled through Jesus alone. The nation (people of Israel) failed to keep covenant with God. They trusted in the system rather than WHO the system was about (Jesus). The intent was for the nation of Israel was to be the light to the whole world. They failed due to their error of not including others into the faith. He did protect the early nation of Israel because it was through that lineage that the Messiah would come.

Galatians 3

Verses 28 to 29[28] There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither slave nor free, there is neither male nor female; for you are all one in Christ Jesus. [29] And if you are Christ's, then you are Abraham's offspring, heirs according to promise.

If there aren't any jews then there is not a jewish nation ... all are one in Christ ... it don't matter what nation one is from. All is in Jesus.

The ultimate fulfillment of the Abrahamic covenant comes in Jesus Christ, the true “offspring” of Abraham (Galatians 3:16). Those who are in Christ are now also considered “Abraham's offspring” and heirs of the covenant promises through the new covenant. It's not a new covenant it is a better covenant .... the old made better.

Hebrews 8:6-9 NKJVBut now He has obtained a more excellent ministry, inasmuch as He is also Mediator of a better covenant, which was established on better promises. For if that first covenant had been faultless, then no place would have been sought for a second.

Better covenant ... not new. The old covenant made better.

It wasn't that the old covenant had flaws .... the people had flaws .... the better was knowing one is saved through Jesus (better promises) and not a religious system the sacrifice of animals (in which there is no redemption) .... but the willing sacrifice of Himself.

Having this knowledge does not make one against the Jews or anyone else for that matter.

We are called to get the gospel of Jesus out that one (anyone) might be saved (through Him) regardless of their ethnicity ..... Jesus don't play favorites with people groups (never has) .... He wants all to come to Him because everything is fulfilled through Him nothing else or no one else.

As far as the modern day nation of Israel is concerned .... any nation has the right to protect themselves .... and I stand with them in that regard. They were viciously attacked and the intent is genocide of Jewish people.

If looking for the modern day nation of Israel to fulfill prophecy one is looking in the wrong place ... all prophecy (past, present, future) is fulfilled through Jesus alone ... not through any ethnic people group.

Romans 2

11 For God does not show favoritism. 12 All who sin apart from the law will also perish apart from the law, and all who sin under the law will be judged by the law.
you sayin the Jews were never the chosen people?

They were and they still are. Chosen for the purpose God has for them, that they should reign with Christ here on earth for a 1, 000 years.

The church [Jew/Gentile] are not chosen to reign on earth a 1, 000 years. We are chosen for Heaven and we shall be raptured there not long hence.

God calls the Jews His beloved, what about that? it is not the remnant or the believing Jews He calls beloved but "they are enemies of the gospel for your sakes but as touching ELECTION they are beloved for the father's sake for the gifts and call of God are irrevocable ..."
 
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FutureAndAHope

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The church [Jew/Gentile] will be raptured but all other Jews will be raised from the dead.
Dan. 12:1.
At that time shall arise Michael the great prince who has charge of your people. And there shall be a time of trouble such as never has been since there was a nation till that time, but at that time your people shall be delivered, everyone whose name shall be found written in the book.

And many of those who sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake some to everlasting life and some to shame and everlasting contempt. And those who are wise shall shine like the brightness of the firmament and those who turn many to righteousness like the stars forever and ever.
*
We see that this happens at the time of the great tribulation and after God has delivered the Jews but it is not the general or last resurrection, it gives context to Paul's statement that "all Israel will be saved" but certainly we have here a nation of Israel after the church is gone who will go into the Millennial age, reigning on earth with Messiah Jesus.

It corresponds to Ezekiel's valley of dry bones.
I disagree. Only those who put faith in Jesus will be saved. The statement "all Israel will be saved", to me means there will come a time when all those of Israel who can be saved will be. All not meaning every Jew, but rather every believing Jew.
 
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JohnD70X7

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I personally believe that the purpose for the Great Tribulation is to bring the surviving remnant of Israel to the brink of total annihilation... for only then will they cry out to Yeshua for salvation since nothing else will have worked.

Matthew 23:37–39 (KJV)
37 O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, thou that killest the prophets, and stonest them which are sent unto thee, how often would I have gathered thy children together, even as a hen gathereth her chickens under her wings, and ye would not!
38 Behold, your house is left unto you desolate.
39 For I say unto you, Ye shall not see me henceforth, till ye shall say, Blessed is he that cometh in the name of the Lord.

With the addition of the prior verse Jesus was quoting:

Psalm 118:25–26 (KJV)
25 Save now, I beseech thee, O LORD: O LORD, I beseech thee, send now prosperity.
26 Blessed be he that cometh in the name of the LORD: we have blessed you out of the house of the LORD.

Hosha Nah! Yehoshua HaMoshiakh!
Save now, Jesus the Christ!

Blessed is he who comes in the name of YHVH

For the Jews will have already fallen for the one who came in his own name...

John 5:43 (KJV)
43 I am come in my Father’s name, and ye receive me not: if another shall come in his own name, him ye will receive.

And the antichrist will renege on his covenant with the Jews (Daniel 9:27 / Daniel 12:11 / 2 Thessalonians 2:3-11 / Zechariah 5:5-11).

Then all Israel (all Jews who remain alive) will believe and be saved. For Jesus will return at their cry and land on the Mount of Olives with such force that the mountain splits in two... and the 200M man army bivouacked in the valley of Meggido will be wiped out by the Lord.
 
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Billy Evmur

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I disagree. Only those who put faith in Jesus will be saved. The statement "all Israel will be saved", to me means there will come a time when all those of Israel who can be saved will be. All not meaning every Jew, but rather every believing Jew.
We are told when Israel will be saved, God deals with us Gentiles each one individually but He has always dealt with Israel as a nation. They fell as a nation and they will rise as a nation. When they shall "look upon Him whom they have pierced and mourn for Him as for a first born son" God will pour out a spirit of compassion and supplication upon the nation and they will seek Him in prayer, the women separate from the men.

Israel will be saved at the Rapture.
 
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eleos1954

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you sayin the Jews were never the chosen people?

They were and they still are. Chosen for the purpose God has for them, that they should reign with Christ here on earth for a 1, 000 years.

The church [Jew/Gentile] are not chosen to reign on earth a 1, 000 years. We are chosen for Heaven and we shall be raptured there not long hence.

God calls the Jews His beloved, what about that? it is not the remnant or the believing Jews He calls beloved but "they are enemies of the gospel for your sakes but as touching ELECTION they are beloved for the father's sake for the gifts and call of God are irrevocable ..."
The terms God offered Abraham were identical to those He offered Israel at Sinai.

The covenant made with Israel was conditional

The blessings promised to Israel at Sinai on condition of their obedience to the covenant and the curses promised on condition of their disobedience all applied to the Abrahamic covenant just as surely as they did to the Mosaic covenant.

The promise of the land to Abraham applied to his literal descendants only on condition that they remained true to God. They did not remain faithful to God. They broke covenant with God. The loss of the land resulted from their disobedience.

Jesus His beloved ... so are followers of Christ.

Then a voice came from heaven, 'You are My beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased'” (Mark 1:10–11).

The good news for you and me today is that our Father in heaven has “made us accepted in the Beloved,” and “in Him we have redemption through His blood, the forgiveness of sins, according to the riches of His grace” (Ephesians 1:6–7).

Colossians

9Do not lie to one another, since you have taken off the old self with its practices, 10and have put on the new self, which is being renewed in knowledge in the image of its Creator. 11Here there is no Greek or Jew, circumcised or uncircumcised, barbarian, Scythian, slave, or free, but Christ is all and is in all. (again ... no Jews)

12Therefore, as the elect of God, holy and beloved, clothe yourselves with hearts of compassion, kindness, humility, gentleness, and patience. 13Bear with one another and forgive any complaint you may have against someone else. Forgive as the Lord forgave you. 14And over all these virtues put on love, which is the bond of perfect unity. 15Let the peace of Christ rule in your hearts, for to this you were called as members of one body. And be thankful.

Those in Christ are the elect ... the chosen ones ... His beloved.

"The church [Jew/Gentile] are not chosen to reign on earth a 1, 000 years. We are chosen for Heaven and we shall be raptured there not long hence."

This is true ... however ... the "rapture" is the 1st resurrection and all of the saved are taken to heaven for the 1,000 years .... but that is not the full end. The 1,000 year reign is in heaven .... not on earth.

Again .... everything is fulfilled in Christ ... He is the only one that can keep covenant with God .... throughout mankinds entire history no one was able to keep covenant with God (all failed) ... only Jesus accomplished that.
 
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FutureAndAHope

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We are told when Israel will be saved, God deals with us Gentiles each one individually but He has always dealt with Israel as a nation. They fell as a nation and they will rise as a nation. When they shall "look upon Him whom they have pierced and mourn for Him as for a first born son" God will pour out a spirit of compassion and supplication upon the nation and they will seek Him in prayer, the women separate from the men.

Israel will be saved at the Rapture.
I do not believe there is a "rapture" the bible is clear the whole church will suffer persecution by the man of sin.

Paul, Jesus, and Daniel, and John all prophecy persecution of Christians and the arrival of the man of sin before his coming.

  1. Persecution of Christians (Mat 24:9-13, Rev 13:7-10, Dan 11:33-35)
  2. Man of Sin (Mat 24:15-21, Daniel 11:36-39, Rev 14:4-6, 2 Th 2:1-8)
2Th 2:1-8 Now, brethren, concerning the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ and our gathering together to Him, we ask you, not to be soon shaken in mind or troubled, either by spirit or by word or by letter, as if from us, as though the day of Christ had come. Let no one deceive you by any means; for that Day will not come unless the falling away comes first, and the man of sin is revealed, the son of perdition, who opposes and exalts himself above all that is called God or that is worshiped, so that he sits as God in the temple of God, showing himself that he is God. Do you not remember that when I was still with you I told you these things? And now you know what is restraining, that he may be revealed in his own time. For the mystery of lawlessness is already at work; only He who now restrains will do so until He is taken out of the way. And then the lawless one will be revealed, whom the Lord will consume with the breath of His mouth and destroy with the brightness of His coming.
 
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We are told when Israel will be saved, God deals with us Gentiles each one individually but He has always dealt with Israel as a nation. They fell as a nation and they will rise as a nation. When they shall "look upon Him whom they have pierced and mourn for Him as for a first born son" God will pour out a spirit of compassion and supplication upon the nation and they will seek Him in prayer, the women separate from the men.

Hey Billy, it's been a while, good to see you. The nation is born in a day because everyone hears the call in the same day, no matter what day of the year it may be, that is, if you put yourself into the text.

John 7:37-38 KJV
37 In the last day, that great day of the feast, Jesus stood and cried, saying, If any man thirst, let him come unto me, and drink.
38 He that believeth on me, as the scripture hath said, out of his belly shall flow rivers of living water.

Understand? The first time you ever read this you heard this call. What day was it? It was the last great day of Sukkot-Tabernacles. Therefore by putting yourself in the text you are on a timeline, a prophetic timeline, but there is a restrainer holding back the one who is to come, and when he comes the timeline will engage and the countdown will commence, (though no man knows the day or the hour).

Hebrews 10:35-39 KJV
35 Cast not away therefore your confidence, which hath great recompence of reward.
36 For ye have need of patience, that, after ye have done the will of God, ye might receive the promise.
37 For yet a little while, and he that shall come will come, and will not tarry. [Hab 2:3]
38 Now the just shall live by faith: but if any man draw back, my soul shall have no pleasure in him. [Hab 2:4]
39 But we are not of them who draw back unto perdition; but of them that believe to the saving of the soul.

And in this manner shall all Yisrael be delivered.

Israel will be saved at the Rapture.

This so-called rapture comes from the Torah, and although it is for the good, it is not good for the old man nature and natural man when it comes, (for that one is finally put to death).

Exodus 33:2-6
2 And I will send My Messenger before you, (and I will drive out the Kanaani, the Amori, and the Ḥitti, and the Perizzi, the Ḥivvi, and the Yebusi),
3 unto a land flowing with milk and honey: for I will not go up in the midst of you, for you are a stiff-necked people: lest I consume you in the way.
4 And when the people heard this bad word, they mourned, and no one put on his head-gear.
5 And יהוה said to Mosheh, Say to bnei Yisrael, You are a stiff-necked people: in one blink of an eye I will come up into your midst and consume you! And now, put off your head-gear, for I know what I will do with you.
6 And bnei Yisrael plucked off their head-gear from mount Ḥoreb.

This is further expounded in the vow of the Nazir, in BaMidbar-Numbers 6, (including the blessing). The nation is indeed born in a day, (Isa 66:5-12), and yet it is to each in his or her own appointed times, the time appointed of the Father when a child becomes a tried, tested, and true son, (Gal 4:1-2), because each one who guards the command in Exo 25:8-9 becomes a little mikdash-sanctuary-temple house of Elohim, (Isa 66:1-2, Eze 11:16, Acts 7:48-50, etc., etc.).

For this same reason some say that certain things foretold in the Olivet Discourse and even some things Paul said have never come to pass: they surely did happen, just not according to the way dispensationalist futurism teaches that those things will happen, and dispensationalist futurists will change their minds if and when those things happen to them: each in his or her own appointed times, just as the Torah, Prophets, Meshiah, and Paul all teach.

Here is the order from the Master himself and I will just quote the KJV.

Luke 19:11-20 KJV
11 And as they heard these things, he added and spake a parable, because he was nigh to Jerusalem, and because they thought that the kingdom of God should immediately appear.
12 He said therefore, A certain nobleman went into a far country to receive for himself a kingdom, and to return.
13 And he called his ten servants, and delivered them ten pounds, and said unto them, Occupy till I come.
14 But his citizens hated him, and sent a message after him, saying, We will not have this man to reign over us.
15 And it came to pass, that when he was returned, having received the kingdom, [Acts 2:1-3, Isa 53:12a] then he commanded these servants to be called unto him, to whom he had given the money, that he might know how much every man had gained by trading.
16 Then came the first, saying, Lord, thy pound hath gained ten pounds.
17 And he said unto him, Well, thou good servant: because thou hast been faithful in a very little, have thou authority over ten cities.
18 And the second came, saying, Lord, thy pound hath gained five pounds.
19 And he said likewise to him, Be thou also over five cities.
20 And another came, saying, Lord, behold, here is thy pound, which I have kept laid up in a napkin:

See the order commencing from Acts 2? The ten servants are summoned or called (up) one at a time, (ten being a number of completion or totality). The Bema is singular, individual, personal, and private, just as is the Good Message or Gospel.

Then came the first ...
Then came the second ...
Then another came ...
And so on, and so on, until it is your own appointed time ...
 
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Then all Israel (all Jews who remain alive) will believe and be saved. For Jesus will return at their cry and land on the Mount of Olives with such force that the mountain splits in two... and the 200M man army bivouacked in the valley of Meggido will be wiped out by the Lord.
Who is the 200M man army?

Rev. 9:16 And the number of the army of the horsemen were two hundred thousand thousand: and I heard the number of them.
Rev. 16:12 And the sixth angel poured out his vial upon the great river Euphrates; and the water thereof was dried up, that the way of the kings of the east might be prepared.

Who is the "East"? including many East Asian?
 
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Billy Evmur

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I do not believe there is a "rapture" the bible is clear the whole church will suffer persecution by the man of sin.

Paul, Jesus, and Daniel, and John all prophecy persecution of Christians and the arrival of the man of sin before his coming.

  1. Persecution of Christians (Mat 24:9-13, Rev 13:7-10, Dan 11:33-35)
  2. Man of Sin (Mat 24:15-21, Daniel 11:36-39, Rev 14:4-6, 2 Th 2:1-8)
2Th 2:1-8 Now, brethren, concerning the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ and our gathering together to Him, we ask you, not to be soon shaken in mind or troubled, either by spirit or by word or by letter, as if from us, as though the day of Christ had come. Let no one deceive you by any means; for that Day will not come unless the falling away comes first, and the man of sin is revealed, the son of perdition, who opposes and exalts himself above all that is called God or that is worshiped, so that he sits as God in the temple of God, showing himself that he is God. Do you not remember that when I was still with you I told you these things? And now you know what is restraining, that he may be revealed in his own time. For the mystery of lawlessness is already at work; only He who now restrains will do so until He is taken out of the way. And then the lawless one will be revealed, whom the Lord will consume with the breath of His mouth and destroy with the brightness of His coming.
Hi ya
You must not think that Darby invented the Rap. He invented the pre-tribulation Rap.
I'm with you
The church WILL go through the Great Tribulation, we will see Antichrist [he is in the wings]
but Paul says that day of our gathering will not come unless these things happen first, but that day will come, we will gather to meet Him in the air.

the church oughta be preparing for martyrdom rather than rapture.
 
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Billy Evmur

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Hey Billy, it's been a while, good to see you. The nation is born in a day because everyone hears the call in the same day, no matter what day of the year it may be, that is, if you put yourself into the text.

John 7:37-38 KJV
37 In the last day, that great day of the feast, Jesus stood and cried, saying, If any man thirst, let him come unto me, and drink.
38 He that believeth on me, as the scripture hath said, out of his belly shall flow rivers of living water.

Understand? The first time you ever read this you heard this call. What day was it? It was the last great day of Sukkot-Tabernacles. Therefore by putting yourself in the text you are on a timeline, a prophetic timeline, but there is a restrainer holding back the one who is to come, and when he comes the timeline will engage and the countdown will commence, (though no man knows the day or the hour).

Hebrews 10:35-39 KJV
35 Cast not away therefore your confidence, which hath great recompence of reward.
36 For ye have need of patience, that, after ye have done the will of God, ye might receive the promise.
37 For yet a little while, and he that shall come will come, and will not tarry. [Hab 2:3]
38 Now the just shall live by faith: but if any man draw back, my soul shall have no pleasure in him. [Hab 2:4]
39 But we are not of them who draw back unto perdition; but of them that believe to the saving of the soul.

And in this manner shall all Yisrael be delivered.



This so-called rapture comes from the Torah, and although it is for the good, it is not good for the old man nature and natural man when it comes, (for that one is finally put to death).

Exodus 33:2-6
2 And I will send My Messenger before you, (and I will drive out the Kanaani, the Amori, and the Ḥitti, and the Perizzi, the Ḥivvi, and the Yebusi),
3 unto a land flowing with milk and honey: for I will not go up in the midst of you, for you are a stiff-necked people: lest I consume you in the way.
4 And when the people heard this bad word, they mourned, and no one put on his head-gear.
5 And יהוה said to Mosheh, Say to bnei Yisrael, You are a stiff-necked people: in one blink of an eye I will come up into your midst and consume you! And now, put off your head-gear, for I know what I will do with you.
6 And bnei Yisrael plucked off their head-gear from mount Ḥoreb.

This is further expounded in the vow of the Nazir, in BaMidbar-Numbers 6, (including the blessing). The nation is indeed born in a day, (Isa 66:5-12), and yet it is to each in his or her own appointed times, the time appointed of the Father when a child becomes a tried, tested, and true son, (Gal 4:1-2), because each one who guards the command in Exo 25:8-9 becomes a little mikdash-sanctuary-temple house of Elohim, (Isa 66:1-2, Eze 11:16, Acts 7:48-50, etc., etc.).

For this same reason some say that certain things foretold in the Olivet Discourse and even some things Paul said have never come to pass: they surely did happen, just not according to the way dispensationalist futurism teaches that those things will happen, and dispensationalist futurists will change their minds if and when those things happen to them: each in his or her own appointed times, just as the Torah, Prophets, Meshiah, and Paul all teach.

Here is the order from the Master himself and I will just quote the KJV.

Luke 19:11-20 KJV
11 And as they heard these things, he added and spake a parable, because he was nigh to Jerusalem, and because they thought that the kingdom of God should immediately appear.
12 He said therefore, A certain nobleman went into a far country to receive for himself a kingdom, and to return.
13 And he called his ten servants, and delivered them ten pounds, and said unto them, Occupy till I come.
14 But his citizens hated him, and sent a message after him, saying, We will not have this man to reign over us.
15 And it came to pass, that when he was returned, having received the kingdom, [Acts 2:1-3, Isa 53:12a] then he commanded these servants to be called unto him, to whom he had given the money, that he might know how much every man had gained by trading.
16 Then came the first, saying, Lord, thy pound hath gained ten pounds.
17 And he said unto him, Well, thou good servant: because thou hast been faithful in a very little, have thou authority over ten cities.
18 And the second came, saying, Lord, thy pound hath gained five pounds.
19 And he said likewise to him, Be thou also over five cities.
20 And another came, saying, Lord, behold, here is thy pound, which I have kept laid up in a napkin:

See the order commencing from Acts 2? The ten servants are summoned or called (up) one at a time, (ten being a number of completion or totality). The Bema is singular, individual, personal, and private, just as is the Good Message or Gospel.

Then came the first ...
Then came the second ...
Then another came ...
And so on, and so on, until it is your own appointed time ...
Yo daqee boy. Nice to see you, bin a long time

...er you're going to be nice to me right? :D
 
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eleos1954

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I do not believe there is a "rapture" the bible is clear the whole church will suffer persecution by the man of sin.

Paul, Jesus, and Daniel, and John all prophecy persecution of Christians and the arrival of the man of sin before his coming.

  1. Persecution of Christians (Mat 24:9-13, Rev 13:7-10, Dan 11:33-35)
  2. Man of Sin (Mat 24:15-21, Daniel 11:36-39, Rev 14:4-6, 2 Th 2:1-8)
2Th 2:1-8 Now, brethren, concerning the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ and our gathering together to Him, we ask you, not to be soon shaken in mind or troubled, either by spirit or by word or by letter, as if from us, as though the day of Christ had come. Let no one deceive you by any means; for that Day will not come unless the falling away comes first, and the man of sin is revealed, the son of perdition, who opposes and exalts himself above all that is called God or that is worshiped, so that he sits as God in the temple of God, showing himself that he is God. Do you not remember that when I was still with you I told you these things? And now you know what is restraining, that he may be revealed in his own time. For the mystery of lawlessness is already at work; only He who now restrains will do so until He is taken out of the way. And then the lawless one will be revealed, whom the Lord will consume with the breath of His mouth and destroy with the brightness of His coming.
"I do not believe there is a "rapture" the bible is clear the whole church will suffer persecution by the man of sin."

This is true .... the 1st resurrection is not just of the Jews .... it is of all the saved.

Do not marvel at this; for the hour is coming in which all who are in the graves will hear His voice and come forth—those who have done good, to the resurrection of life, and those who have done evil, to the resurrection of condemnation. John 5:28-29 NKJV
 
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Billy Evmur

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I personally believe that the purpose for the Great Tribulation is to bring the surviving remnant of Israel to the brink of total annihilation... for only then will they cry out to Yeshua for salvation since nothing else will have worked.

Matthew 23:37–39 (KJV)
37 O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, thou that killest the prophets, and stonest them which are sent unto thee, how often would I have gathered thy children together, even as a hen gathereth her chickens under her wings, and ye would not!
38 Behold, your house is left unto you desolate.
39 For I say unto you, Ye shall not see me henceforth, till ye shall say, Blessed is he that cometh in the name of the Lord.

With the addition of the prior verse Jesus was quoting:

Psalm 118:25–26 (KJV)
25 Save now, I beseech thee, O LORD: O LORD, I beseech thee, send now prosperity.
26 Blessed be he that cometh in the name of the LORD: we have blessed you out of the house of the LORD.

Hosha Nah! Yehoshua HaMoshiakh!
Save now, Jesus the Christ!

Blessed is he who comes in the name of YHVH

For the Jews will have already fallen for the one who came in his own name...

John 5:43 (KJV)
43 I am come in my Father’s name, and ye receive me not: if another shall come in his own name, him ye will receive.

And the antichrist will renege on his covenant with the Jews (Daniel 9:27 / Daniel 12:11 / 2 Thessalonians 2:3-11 / Zechariah 5:5-11).

Then all Israel (all Jews who remain alive) will believe and be saved. For Jesus will return at their cry and land on the Mount of Olives with such force that the mountain splits in two... and the 200M man army bivouacked in the valley of Meggido will be wiped out by the Lord.
Hi ya, I certainly agree they will have a pact with Nastypants, whether or not it amounts to them accepting him as Messiah I question. He will have broken his agreement went he marches into the temple to seize the throne.

It is by means of this pact that the Jews will escape the Great Trib ... oh yes, you will see in Jeremiah 30 that they are to be saved during their time of trouble. When Antichrist invades the temple God will come and fight against him ... it will be a short battle.
 
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daq

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Yo daqee boy. Nice to see you, bin a long time

...er you're going to be nice to me right? :D

Lol, yes of course, I really just wanted to say hi, but also did not want to ignore the thread topic: and since I think you are pretty familiar with my position anyway, I wasn't planning on posting too much herein.
 
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Laureate

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The church [Jew/Gentile] will be raptured but all other Jews will be raised from the dead.
Dan. 12:1.
At that time shall arise Michael the great prince who has charge of your people. And there shall be a time of trouble such as never has been since there was a nation till that time, but at that time your people shall be delivered, everyone whose name shall be found written in the book.

And many of those who sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake some to everlasting life and some to shame and everlasting contempt. And those who are wise shall shine like the brightness of the firmament and those who turn many to righteousness like the stars forever and ever.
*
We see that this happens at the time of the great tribulation and after God has delivered the Jews but it is not the general or last resurrection, it gives context to Paul's statement that "all Israel will be saved" but certainly we have here a nation of Israel after the church is gone who will go into the Millennial age, reigning on earth with Messiah Jesus.

It corresponds to Ezekiel's valley of dry bones.
First off, Deliverance is Promised unto those whose Names are Found Written in the Book, emphasis here is placed on being Found in the Book, not Recorded in the Book, for everyone’s Name (which is Not Blotted Out) is Recorded in the Book, but Not everyone Believes the Report of Aliyahu Ripps who came in the Way of Righteousness with a publishing of the Gospel that reveals Everyone’s Name is Recorded in the Torah, and yet if one does not Believe his Report of the Gospel, then by what other motive will one have to Search and Find their Name written in the Book?

Emphasis is placed on ‘Your People’ and not the word ‘Jew’ for a good reason, for not everyone who is called a Jew, is a Jew.

Secondly, ‘the Many which shall awake from the dust to receive everlasting life or condemnation’ is a direct reference to John 5 where Yeshuah expresses the very same thing, however he also declares that, The Hour (which No Man Knows but the Father) shall Come As it is Now, when the Dead shall Hear the Voice of the Son, and shall come forth of their graves….

In essence that was supposed to be the expected Resurrection, however too many were not ready, and the great and dreadful day was postponed and reserved for the second advent/visitation, nevertheless Ezekiel 37 (which you make reference to) was partially fulfilled, for immediately after Ezekiel’s report of the resurrection the Two Kingdoms are United, and to this purpose Yeshuah (the Son of Adam) came, subsequently Aphrîyem [the Lost Sheep of the House of Ishrael] was brought back to his Judaic roots, which we refer to today as Christianity.

Yeshayahu 11 reveals that it is not until the second advent/visitation that the Jews will cease to vex Aphrîyem and Aphrîyem will cease to be envious of the Jews.

It is also revealed in Yeshayahu 11 that as the first advent pertained to the bringing back into the fold of Aphrîyem, to which many (so called) Jews to this day are still reluctant, the second advent pertains to bringing into the fold many from the Muslim and Afro Asiatic countries, something which many Christian’s and Jews will be twice reluctant.

Michael whose name means, Who is like Alohym, is the Father of the Son of Adam, for he alone was created by Alohym for that very purpose, to be Like Alohym.

For the Father was the Voice of the Son, as was the Son which spoke from the Bosom of John who identified the Son of Alohym, a feat which No Man but the Father could perform, let alone Usher in the great and dreadful day, as the greatest person Risen and Born of a Woman came to do.

When John withheld his true identity, he also made it virtually impossible to turn the hearts of the children towards their risen patriarchs, this is how the Father received the Curse (scheduled to fall on mankind) upon himself and the Son, for he is Adam (mankind) and the Son of Adam is also a definitive way of expressing Mankind.

Mind you John 5 does not say, those who hear the Son will rise from their grave, it says those which hear the Voice of the Son shall rise from their grave, the Father is the Voice of the Son.

The rapture indeed occurs, but not like many suppose, it shall occur precisely as it occurred when the children of Ishrael were carried upon the great wings of an eagle and brought to Alohym’s heavenly Abode, the Mountain of Alohym.

But Peleh Pray your flight be not in the winter…. is a statement that reveals what Mountain his Disciples were to flee unto.

They fled to Mt. Peleh, and so shall it be in the rapture preceding the global devastation expected to come.
 
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FutureAndAHope

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"I do not believe there is a "rapture" the bible is clear the whole church will suffer persecution by the man of sin."

This is true .... the 1st resurrection is not just of the Jews .... it is of all the saved.

Do not marvel at this; for the hour is coming in which all who are in the graves will hear His voice and come forth—those who have done good, to the resurrection of life, and those who have done evil, to the resurrection of condemnation. John 5:28-29 NKJV
Also, the first resurrection when does it occur? According to scripture.

Rev 20:4-6 And I saw thrones, and they sat on them, and judgment was committed to them. Then I saw the souls of those who had been beheaded for their witness to Jesus and for the word of God, who had not worshiped the beast or his image, and had not received his mark on their foreheads or on their hands. And they lived and reigned with Christ for a thousand years. But the rest of the dead did not live again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection. Blessed and holy is he who has part in the first resurrection. Over such the second death has no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with Him a thousand years.
 
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