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Heating up down under

Bob Crowley

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Australia took ten of the 15 world hot spots on Monday.


On Monday, the remote Pilbara station Mardie reached 43.5 degrees Celsius, making it the hottest spot on the planet for the day, according to online world temperatures site El Dorado Weather, which collates temperature data from thousands of stations around the world.

It was followed by Fitzroy Crossing in the Kimberley, and the Pilbara towns of Onslow, Marble Bar and Telfer.

Australian towns took out 10 of the top 15 spots.

But it is not regarded as a heat wave - not yet anyway.

To meet the heatwave criteria, the BOM looks at the temperatures of both the day and the night.

When combined, they have to fall in the top 5 per cent of all temperatures across an average year to be considered enough for a heatwave.

These unusual temperatures have to hang around for more than three consecutive days
 

eclipsenow

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There's a reason why most everyone in Australia lives on the coast.
That is true. It's a desert surrounded by a skid-mark of green.
But the truth you just posted does not contradict the scientific evidence.
"People avoid living in deserts and like the beach" does NOT disprove "Australia's starting to cook in accordance with climate change."
Both statements can be true. Both ARE true!
Unless - of course - you are politically wedded to an anti-science proposition.
Then - being MAGA - you can just believe anything you want to. Apparently. Conservatives used to be about conserving nature, not practicing a radical experiment by altering the atmosphere of the entire planet!

Eunice Foote discovered CO2 trapped heat way back in 1956.
She put thermometers in equal glass jars out in the same sun, and filled them with different gases.
The CO2 jar warmed higher, methane even more.
This is backyard science - but MAGA denies it.
Why is that? Oh yeah - big funding from Koch brothers and Exxon.
Trump gives billionaires tax cuts and kicks the bottom 16 million Americans off healthcare and calls it a "Big Beautiful Bill." Go figure.

REALITY:

"Australia, on average, has warmed by 1.51 ± 0.23 °C since national records began in 1910, with most warming occurring since 1950. Every decade since 1950 has been warmer than preceding decades. The warming in Australia is consistent with global trends, with the degree of warming similar to the overall average across the world’s land areas."​

 
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Servus

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That is true. It's a desert surrounded by a skid-mark of green.
But the truth you just posted does not contradict the scientific evidence.
"People avoid living in deserts and like the beach" does NOT disprove "Australia's starting to cook in accordance with climate change."
Both statements can be true. Both ARE true!
Unless - of course - you are politically wedded to an anti-science proposition.
Then - being MAGA - you can just believe anything you want to. Apparently. Conservatives used to be about conserving nature, not practicing a radical experiment by altering the atmosphere of the entire planet!

Eunice Foote discovered CO2 trapped heat way back in 1956.
She put thermometers in equal glass jars out in the same sun, and filled them with different gases.
The CO2 jar warmed higher, methane even more.
This is backyard science - but MAGA denies it.
Why is that? Oh yeah - big funding from Koch brothers and Exxon.
Trump gives billionaires tax cuts and kicks the bottom 16 million Americans off healthcare and calls it a "Big Beautiful Bill." Go figure.

REALITY:​
"Australia, on average, has warmed by 1.51 ± 0.23 °C since national records began in 1910, with most warming occurring since 1950. Every decade since 1950 has been warmer than preceding decades. The warming in Australia is consistent with global trends, with the degree of warming similar to the overall average across the world’s land areas."​


"Big funding from Koch brothers and Exxon" as a conspiracy for why people aren't panicking over it being a couple of degrees hotter than it was 115 years ago, could easily matched to getting people to panic to fund the $8 trillion Green Industry, which received $2 trillion in funding in 2024, and has donated millions in political funding.

Let's not pretend that the $8,000,000,000,000 Green Industry, and the DNC, doesn't have a whole lot of Big Money to gain from Climate Change Panic.
 
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eclipsenow

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Going on about the hottest places on earth being hot during the hottest times of summer, as if that's something to be alarmed about, is kinda silly.
Not when those hottest places have measurements going back to 1910.

Climate change has always existed.

Yes - as if this is news to any actual scientist - let alone climate scientist. Or any humanities geek like myself who has read a bit. Do you know WHY the climate changes? What the top drivers are? What causes a glacial period and interglacial period over tens of thousands of years - or what about LONGER term climate trends over the 10's of millions of years?

Like I said - I'm not even a scientist. But even I know some of these things.

"Big funding from Koch brothers and Exxon" as a conspiracy for why people aren't panicking over it being a couple of degrees hotter than it was 115 years ago,
A couple of degrees hotter? Maybe you're thinking of weather.
A couple of degrees of CLIMATE change should scare you - should make you angry - should make you think of the inter-generational immorality of us living as if we allowed to squander our children and grandchildren's futures!

Didn't Calvin himself say the farmer should leave his fields in better condition than he found them? He had basic ideas of stewardship in mind.

Maybe you don't understand the difference between weather and climate?


Think of water in a bathtub. Weather is the toddler splashing and making waves. The amount of water stays the same, but the waves rock back and forth with the water level. Climate change is that someone left the tap on, and soon that toddler could drown!

Climate change is the energy imbalance of the planet - the extra energy 'trapped' by the sunlight bouncing off the earth's surface as heat, and being trapped by the thicker blanket of gases surrounding the earth.

It's going up about to 2 Hiroshima bombs per second, every second, of every minute, of every hour, of every day, of every day of the year. All year around. It shows up in glaciers melting, heat records toppling, seasons out of whack, grubs hatching and dying before the baby birds hatch so they can eat the grubs. It's the very food web is out of whack.

It's global crop yields down a quarter as the population goes UP a quarter by 2050.

1760508684596.png



And Exxon knew about it all from their own scientists way back in 1977.


1760509063721.png


Exxon scientists said...


In 1982 they sent a document marked “not to be distributed externally.”

“Preventing global warming … would require major reductions in fossil fuel combustion. Unless that happened, there are some potentially catastrophic events that must be considered … Once the effects are measurable, they might not be reversible.”


It seems sir - that you have a lot more reading and thinking to do.

Unless of course, like most MAGA you just think "That's what you CHOOSE to believe - I choose to believe something else."

 
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Servus

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Not when those hottest places have measurements going back to 1910.



Yes - as if this is news to any actual scientist - let alone climate scientist. Or any humanities geek like myself who has read a bit. Do you know WHY the climate changes? What the top drivers are? What causes a glacial period and interglacial period over tens of thousands of years - or what about LONGER term climate trends over the 10's of millions of years?

Like I said - I'm not even a scientist. But even I know some of these things.


A couple of degrees hotter? Maybe you're thinking of weather.
A couple of degrees of CLIMATE change should scare you - should make you angry - should make you think of the inter-generational immorality of us living as if we allowed to squander our children and grandchildren's futures!

Didn't Calvin himself say the farmer should leave his fields in better condition than he found them? He had basic ideas of stewardship in mind.

Maybe you don't understand the difference between weather and climate?


Think of water in a bathtub. Weather is the toddler splashing and making waves. The amount of water stays the same, but the waves rock back and forth with the water level. Climate change is that someone left the tap on, and soon that toddler could drown!

Climate change is the energy imbalance of the planet - the extra energy 'trapped' by the sunlight bouncing off the earth's surface as heat, and being trapped by the thicker blanket of gases surrounding the earth.

It's going up about to 2 Hiroshima bombs per second, every second, of every minute, of every hour, of every day, of every day of the year. All year around. It shows up in glaciers melting, heat records toppling, seasons out of whack, grubs hatching and dying before the baby birds hatch so they can eat the grubs. It's the very food web is out of whack.

It's global crop yields down a quarter as the population goes UP a quarter by 2050.

View attachment 371600


And Exxon knew about it all from their own scientists way back in 1977.


View attachment 371601

Exxon scientists said...


In 1982 they sent a document marked “not to be distributed externally.”

“Preventing global warming … would require major reductions in fossil fuel combustion. Unless that happened, there are some potentially catastrophic events that must be considered … Once the effects are measurable, they might not be reversible.”


It seems sir - that you have a lot more reading and thinking to do.

Unless of course, like most MAGA you just think "That's what you CHOOSE to believe - I choose to believe something else."

I see you skipped talking about how much huge money the $8,000,000,000,000 Green Industry, and the DNC, has to gain from Climate Change Panic. That the Green Industry made an extra $2,000,000,000,000 in 2024 and has given millions in political donations.

I wonder how much money the 8 Trillion Dollar and growing Green Industry is putting into Climate Change Science? According to AI it's over a Trillion Dollars, and expected to increase substantially.
 
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eclipsenow

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I see you skipped talking about how much huge money the $8,000,000,000,000 Green Industry,
I see YOU forgot to debunk how gases in backyard glass bottles in 1856 demonstrated how CO2 traps heat, and how Exxon scientists confirmed climate projections done by their scientists back in 1977 through to the mid 1980s are playing out on our watch - as we speak and you deny the science!?

When EXXON confirms climate change - you know it's real. (Despite their and the Koch's brother's hundreds of millions funding online denial campaigns, the Heartland Institute, and general spreaders of FUD about climate science.) Just skipped past these inconvenient truths hey? ;)

Now, the global green funds are big - and now are starting to represent even bigger industries. But that's all to the good! I'll cover that below. But now - what is WITH your utterly fallacious and fantastical figures?


and the DNC, has to gain from Climate Change Panic. That the Green Industry made an extra $2,000,000,000,000 in 2024 and has given millions in political donations.
Uh, where was that sort of money going - from who to whom? That sounds like the Illuminati-stole-my-homework tinfoil hat.
Got some kind of credible evidence?

I wonder how much money the 8 Trillion Dollar and growing Green Industry is putting into Climate Change Science? According to AI it's over a Trillion Dollars, and expected to increase substantially.
Woah - one minute it's $2 TRILLION - the next it's $8! Is this like that week Donald Trump solved 7 wars - then it jumped to 10 - then it was back down to 8? Seriously dude - what on earth are you talking about!? It's even more tinfoil hat now - even more unbelievable.

Even the global OIL industry 'only' makes just under $8 Trillion.

There are 2 REAL figures we need to discuss: global health costs and global reserves.

Global health costs


4 Prestigious international universities studied fossil fuel pollution.​

The global stats are not good. It kills 8 million people a year - that’s 1 in 5 deaths in 2018.

Deaths from fossil fuel emissions higher than previously thought

The EXTRA health care costs and flow on damage to our economies is $5 TRILLION a year. With flow on costs, it is MORE than the world actually puts into healthcare. So what do we do? SUBSIDIZE it by giving fossil fuels $400 BILLION in subsidies etc each year.
Stop funding pollution

Here’s the irony! The IEA estimates we only need to spend $4 Trillion a year on the Energy Transition. In other words, the sooner we get this done, the sooner it starts to pay for itself - just on public health grounds alone! Globally we’ll save $5 TRILLION in extra health costs as we give our kids clear skies to enjoy. https://www.iea.org/reports/net-zero-by-2050

IT’S THE PATRIOTIC THING TO DO!
We’ll save 8 million lives a year, prepare for when oil, gas, and even coal mining all start to peak and decline ANYWAY, have sustainable cheap energy moving into the future, have more money to adapt to the climate change we have already caused, and bankrupt Petro-Dictators like Vladimir Putin as the world no longer needs the dirty, dangerous product he pushes! It’s just the patriotic thing to do!

Global fossil fuel reserves


Coal will peak and run out​

Coal is finite and would RUN OUT in a century if we kept burning it at current rates. Stanford says 2081
http://mahb.stanford.edu/wp-content/uploads/2019/05/Gioietta_1_23.png
http://www.researchgate.net/publica...ical_potential_for_renewable_energy_resources
When Fossil Fuels Run Out, What Then? - MAHB
When will fossil fuels run out?
But before then - about half way through - the easy coal runs out. We hit peak coal which means declining output of ever more expensive coal. This could bankrupt any nation not ready for it!
When will fossil fuels run out?
Peak coal - Wikipedia
Fossil fuels fund people who do not like us very much. Think of Russian gas funding their Ukrainian war, and all those countries in the Middle East that do not approve of western freedom! If we encourage the world to "Electrify everything" and run off wind and solar - boom! They're bankrupt!

Google peak oil and gas. I can't be bothered when the literature is out there and obvious. Discovery rates have been so low we're now eating into oil our grandparents discovered. Discovery hasn't equalled consumption since the 1980's! We are close - give or take a decade - to the global maximum oil and gas output that humanity will ever produce - and from then on geological constraints will force a reduction in supply.

That thought? 20 years above it used to dominate my every waking moment. It was the stuff of nightmares - of Mad Max and the collapse of society. But now China have ramped up the production of super-efficient wind and solar and EV's so fast, and the costs have come down so much, they are now the cheapest energy the human race has ever enjoyed, period! Even WITH Overbuild and Backup and Super-grid infrastructure to build out the continental super-grids required for 'the law of large numbers' to smooth supply from intermittent wind and solar.

So - fortunately - despite Trump's wild and whacky ideas - the world is saved. America might not be - but hey? You voted for the guy. You get what you deserve if you're going to vote for someone with an incurable personality disorder!

Customers will leave oil before peak oil could happen! Big oil are terrified of EV’s​


Big oil are scared as global demand for oil is about to peak and decline. The IEA tracks EV sales over the last few years:
2020: 5%
2021: 9%
2022: 14%
Why - that looks like a doubling curve!
https://www.iea.org/reports/global-ev-outlook-2023/executive-summary

The IEA predict an oil GLUT by 2028!!! The IEA!
These are the guys the OECD set up to help prevent another 1970's oil crisis!
https://www.iea.org/news/growth-in-global-oil-demand-is-set-to-slow-significantly-by-2028
Which leads us to ask - as Trump ignorantly chants "Drill baby drill!" - by the time the industry scales up if he actually delivers on this silly election promise - who are they going to sell to?

But what is the oil industry themselves saying about all this?
New refineries are coming because they're aware the petroleum and diesel sectors are going to crash! They're worried they are going to struggle to rejig their refinery capacity to new products as diesel and petroleum shrink faster than the refineries can be rejigged. An awful lot of superannuation is tied up in oil reserves and companies and projects that are soon to not even be needed!
https://www.mckinsey.com/industries...s-how-refineries-can-adapt-to-shifting-demand

The IEA, EIA and oil producers are all talking about it.
US is at peak gasoline demand: Phillips 66 | Latest Market News

The RMI has a report on how refineries can adapt to lower fuel demands but still make petro-chemicals and maybe jet fuel. (probably the hardest and last thing to decarbonise.)
Five Ways US Oil Refineries Can Reduce Emissions Today - RMI

But over to you.​

Do you accept science? Climate science? Vaccines? Or has Trump stolen your heart and become a bit of an idol for you - distorting your view of reality?

Do you want Americans to die from dirty fossil fuels, or have cleaner air? Because the air can look fine - but be full of dangerous particulates that give you lung cancer and kill people and cause that ridiculous health bill.

Do you want a global market for oil to fund everyone who hates America?
Middle Eastern Muslim monarchies?
Venezuela?
Russia?


Or do you want America to do the patriotic thing, get ahead of the renewables and Electrify Everything revolution, and be a world leader?

Well TOO BAD!

Because Trump and Musk already had their inevitable spat.

Trump's stopped subsidies that might have helped Tesla accelerate their lead.
Musk has also shot himself in the foot by being a crazy-alt-right MAGA, and having the WONDERFUL PR stunt of being the world's richest man while cutting Federal services to the poor.

(Doing certain nasty salutes in public also didn't help).

China's BYD and other EV manufacturers have already won the EV race!

The European and American manufacturers took a shot to the heart a few years ago - they just haven't figured out they are dead and toppled over yet.
 
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Servus

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I see YOU forgot to debunk how gases in backyard glass bottles in 1856 demonstrated how CO2 traps heat, and how Exxon scientists confirmed climate projections done by their scientists back in 1977 through to the mid 1980s are playing out on our watch - as we speak and you deny the science!?

When EXXON confirms climate change - you know it's real. (Despite their and the Koch's brother's hundreds of millions funding online denial campaigns, the Heartland Institute, and general spreaders of FUD about climate science.) Just skipped past these inconvenient truths hey? ;)

Now, the global green funds are big - and now are starting to represent even bigger industries. But that's all to the good! I'll cover that below. But now - what is WITH your utterly fallacious and fantastical figures?



Uh, where was that sort of money going - from who to whom? That sounds like the Illuminati-stole-my-homework tinfoil hat.
Got some kind of credible evidence?


Woah - one minute it's $2 TRILLION - the next it's $8! Is this like that week Donald Trump solved 7 wars - then it jumped to 10 - then it was back down to 8? Seriously dude - what on earth are you talking about!? It's even more tinfoil hat now - even more unbelievable.

Even the global OIL industry 'only' makes just under $8 Trillion.

There are 2 REAL figures we need to discuss: global health costs and global reserves.

Global health costs


4 Prestigious international universities studied fossil fuel pollution.​

The global stats are not good. It kills 8 million people a year - that’s 1 in 5 deaths in 2018.

Deaths from fossil fuel emissions higher than previously thought

The EXTRA health care costs and flow on damage to our economies is $5 TRILLION a year. With flow on costs, it is MORE than the world actually puts into healthcare. So what do we do? SUBSIDIZE it by giving fossil fuels $400 BILLION in subsidies etc each year.
Stop funding pollution

Here’s the irony! The IEA estimates we only need to spend $4 Trillion a year on the Energy Transition. In other words, the sooner we get this done, the sooner it starts to pay for itself - just on public health grounds alone! Globally we’ll save $5 TRILLION in extra health costs as we give our kids clear skies to enjoy. https://www.iea.org/reports/net-zero-by-2050

IT’S THE PATRIOTIC THING TO DO!
We’ll save 8 million lives a year, prepare for when oil, gas, and even coal mining all start to peak and decline ANYWAY, have sustainable cheap energy moving into the future, have more money to adapt to the climate change we have already caused, and bankrupt Petro-Dictators like Vladimir Putin as the world no longer needs the dirty, dangerous product he pushes! It’s just the patriotic thing to do!

Global fossil fuel reserves


Coal will peak and run out​

Coal is finite and would RUN OUT in a century if we kept burning it at current rates. Stanford says 2081
http://mahb.stanford.edu/wp-content/uploads/2019/05/Gioietta_1_23.png
http://www.researchgate.net/publica...ical_potential_for_renewable_energy_resources
When Fossil Fuels Run Out, What Then? - MAHB
When will fossil fuels run out?
But before then - about half way through - the easy coal runs out. We hit peak coal which means declining output of ever more expensive coal. This could bankrupt any nation not ready for it!
When will fossil fuels run out?
Peak coal - Wikipedia
Fossil fuels fund people who do not like us very much. Think of Russian gas funding their Ukrainian war, and all those countries in the Middle East that do not approve of western freedom! If we encourage the world to "Electrify everything" and run off wind and solar - boom! They're bankrupt!

Google peak oil and gas. I can't be bothered when the literature is out there and obvious. Discovery rates have been so low we're now eating into oil our grandparents discovered. Discovery hasn't equalled consumption since the 1980's! We are close - give or take a decade - to the global maximum oil and gas output that humanity will ever produce - and from then on geological constraints will force a reduction in supply.

That thought? 20 years above it used to dominate my every waking moment. It was the stuff of nightmares - of Mad Max and the collapse of society. But now China have ramped up the production of super-efficient wind and solar and EV's so fast, and the costs have come down so much, they are now the cheapest energy the human race has ever enjoyed, period! Even WITH Overbuild and Backup and Super-grid infrastructure to build out the continental super-grids required for 'the law of large numbers' to smooth supply from intermittent wind and solar.

So - fortunately - despite Trump's wild and whacky ideas - the world is saved. America might not be - but hey? You voted for the guy. You get what you deserve if you're going to vote for someone with an incurable personality disorder!

Customers will leave oil before peak oil could happen! Big oil are terrified of EV’s​


Big oil are scared as global demand for oil is about to peak and decline. The IEA tracks EV sales over the last few years:
2020: 5%
2021: 9%
2022: 14%
Why - that looks like a doubling curve!
https://www.iea.org/reports/global-ev-outlook-2023/executive-summary

The IEA predict an oil GLUT by 2028!!! The IEA!
These are the guys the OECD set up to help prevent another 1970's oil crisis!
https://www.iea.org/news/growth-in-global-oil-demand-is-set-to-slow-significantly-by-2028
Which leads us to ask - as Trump ignorantly chants "Drill baby drill!" - by the time the industry scales up if he actually delivers on this silly election promise - who are they going to sell to?

But what is the oil industry themselves saying about all this?
New refineries are coming because they're aware the petroleum and diesel sectors are going to crash! They're worried they are going to struggle to rejig their refinery capacity to new products as diesel and petroleum shrink faster than the refineries can be rejigged. An awful lot of superannuation is tied up in oil reserves and companies and projects that are soon to not even be needed!
https://www.mckinsey.com/industries...s-how-refineries-can-adapt-to-shifting-demand

The IEA, EIA and oil producers are all talking about it.
US is at peak gasoline demand: Phillips 66 | Latest Market News

The RMI has a report on how refineries can adapt to lower fuel demands but still make petro-chemicals and maybe jet fuel. (probably the hardest and last thing to decarbonise.)
Five Ways US Oil Refineries Can Reduce Emissions Today - RMI

But over to you.​

Do you accept science? Climate science? Vaccines? Or has Trump stolen your heart and become a bit of an idol for you - distorting your view of reality?

Do you want Americans to die from dirty fossil fuels, or have cleaner air? Because the air can look fine - but be full of dangerous particulates that give you lung cancer and kill people and cause that ridiculous health bill.

Do you want a global market for oil to fund everyone who hates America?
Middle Eastern Muslim monarchies?
Venezuela?
Russia?


Or do you want America to do the patriotic thing, get ahead of the renewables and Electrify Everything revolution, and be a world leader?

Well TOO BAD!

Because Trump and Musk already had their inevitable spat.

Trump's stopped subsidies that might have helped Tesla accelerate their lead.
Musk has also shot himself in the foot by being a crazy-alt-right MAGA, and having the WONDERFUL PR stunt of being the world's richest man while cutting Federal services to the poor.

(Doing certain nasty salutes in public also didn't help).

China's BYD and other EV manufacturers have already won the EV race!

The European and American manufacturers took a shot to the heart a few years ago - they just haven't figured out they are dead and toppled over yet.
The Green Industry made $2 Trillion in 2024 for a total of $8 Trillion so far. Which anyone can look up to see for themselves. But of course by 2026 it will be even more. It's hard to get an exact current figure, considering how much money it's sucking in. Meaning that the Green Industry has just as much financial power to manipulate politicians and research as Koch and Exxon et al. Which is something worth taking into consideration.

Eventually as a matter of progress, the Green Industry will replace a lot of stuff anyways. But of course those making the most money from the Green Industry want as much money as possible ASAP.

The Green Industry has a negative impact on the environment as well. Namely when it comes to EV batteries. Explore the negative impacts of the Green Industry for better insights.
 
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Ophiolite

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The Green Industry made $2 Trillion in 2024 for a total of $8 Trillion so far. Which anyone can look up to see for themselves. But of course by 2026 it will be even more. It's hard to get an exact current figure, considering how much money it's sucking in. Meaning that the Green Industry has just as much financial power to manipulate politicians and research as Koch and Exxon et al. Which is something worth taking into consideration.

Eventually as a matter of progress, the Green Industry will replace a lot of stuff anyways. But of course those making the most money from the Green Industry want as much money as possible ASAP.

The Green Industry has a negative impact on the environment as well. Namely when it comes to EV batteries. Explore the negative impacts of the Green Industry for better insights.
Two points:

You seem to have sidestepped acknowledgement of the extent and impact of global warming, other than a limp "The Green Industry has a negative impact on the environment as well."

What evidence do you have that the potential for Green Industry to influence politicians equally with the oil lobbies is being put into practice. And what evidence do you have that they are doing so with distorted arguments, as has been demonstrated for those on the other side?
 
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Two points:

You seem to have sidestepped acknowledgement of the extent and impact of global warming, other than a limp "The Green Industry has a negative impact on the environment as well."
Well I'm not going to argue a deluge of articles and claims. My point regarding Green Energy is that it's not perfect and those gung ho for it to immediately take over completely, should look into the negative ramifications.
What evidence do you have that the potential for Green Industry to influence politicians equally with the oil lobbies is being put into practice. And what evidence do you have that they are doing so with distorted arguments, as has been demonstrated for those on the other side?
I said it's worth taking into consideration.
 
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eclipsenow

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The Green Industry made $2 Trillion in 2024 for a total of $8 Trillion so far.
Where were these guys to "corrupt the science" of climate change 200 years ago when Joseph Fourier discovered the greenhouse effect of the earth's atmosphere compared to the much colder surface of the moon?

Where were they in 1856 when Eunice Foote described the power of the different gases?

Where were they when Svante Arrhenius calculated how doubling CO₂ could raise Earth’s temperature - and he did this way back in1896.
It's probably the world's first climate model.
The Green Industry has a negative impact on the environment as well. Namely when it comes to EV batteries. Explore the negative impacts of the Green Industry for better insights.
All energy systems take energy to make. An energy group calculated that the CO2 budget for the ENTIRE build out of ALL renewables and EVs to replace the current system across the next 25 years would be 6 months of today's CO2 emissions. Then we would have a renewable powered world running everything - including building the next renewables. And the difference between oil and batteries? You can't recycle oil once it has been burned, but you can recycle EV batteries! We are heading into an era of renewable energy made from renewable materials.

1. Why do you not accept climate change is real?

2. Why do you not accept that the global oil market props up some really nasty Petro- dictators?

3. Why do you not accept the health studies that show we're killing 8 million a year through sorry energy, which costs global health an EXTRA $5 Trillion - and that the faster we do this - the sooner it pays for itself?

4. Why do you not accept Mining 101?

That is: oil and gas and coal are finite and will run out.
We always mine the cheapest easiest stuff first - and then the industry scales up around the largest deposits and the amount of cheap product increases.

But then at some point the rate at which we can pull it out of the ground reaches a maximum, or peak.

That after this, we are moving into an era of deeper, harder to extract coal or gas or oil.

Mining slows. That it can no longer be extracted fast enough to meet global demand.

Depending on how we measure it (whether gigatonnes per year - or actual BTU's in energy value extracted each year) - coal might geologically peak soon. (See the wiki.) However, not to panic! Solar deployment is on a doubling curve such that by 2032 it will supply more energy than ALL other sources combined - including wind, geothermal, oil, gas, coal and nuclear combined! The same wiki reports that coal DEMAND should peak soon.

Leaving the USA stranded doing their own thing, and shunning many in climate and renewables (and medical) science, so that they leave for greener pastures overseas. Which will kick America in its industrial guts - and stymie your economy for decades after Trump dies of old age!
 
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Where were these guys to "corrupt the science" of climate change 200 years ago when Joseph Fourier discovered the greenhouse effect of the earth's atmosphere compared to the much colder surface of the moon?

Where were they in 1856 when Eunice Foote described the power of the different gases?

Where were they when Svante Arrhenius calculated how doubling CO₂ could raise Earth’s temperature - and he did this way back in1896.
It's probably the world's first climate model.

All energy systems take energy to make. An energy group calculated that the CO2 budget for the ENTIRE build out of ALL renewables and EVs to replace the current system across the next 25 years would be 6 months of today's CO2 emissions. Then we would have a renewable powered world running everything - including building the next renewables. And the difference between oil and batteries? You can't recycle oil once it has been burned, but you can recycle EV batteries! We are heading into an era of renewable energy made from renewable materials.

1. Why do you not accept climate change is real?
It's real. But the level of fearmongering over it is unwarranted.
2. Why do you not accept that the global oil market props up some really nasty Petro- dictators?
I'm sure it does and eventually they'll be replaced by the Green Industry dictators.
3. Why do you not accept the health studies that show we're killing 8 million a year through sorry energy, which costs global health an EXTRA $5 Trillion - and that the faster we do this - the sooner it pays for itself?
Most of those people are probably on death's doorstep out of the 67 million who die per year.
4. Why do you not accept Mining 101?
Why do you jump to conclusions? Like why do hate vanilla ice cream? Why do you love pond scum? See what I mean?
That is: oil and gas and coal are finite and will run out.
We always mine the cheapest easiest stuff first - and then the industry scales up around the largest deposits and the amount of cheap product increases.

But then at some point the rate at which we can pull it out of the ground reaches a maximum, or peak.

That after this, we are moving into an era of deeper, harder to extract coal or gas or oil.

Mining slows. That it can no longer be extracted fast enough to meet global demand.

Depending on how we measure it (whether gigatonnes per year - or actual BTU's in energy value extracted each year) - coal might geologically peak soon. (See the wiki.) However, not to panic! Solar deployment is on a doubling curve such that by 2032 it will supply more energy than ALL other sources combined - including wind, geothermal, oil, gas, coal and nuclear combined! The same wiki reports that coal DEMAND should peak soon.

Leaving the USA stranded doing their own thing, and shunning many in climate and renewables (and medical) science, so that they leave for greener pastures overseas. Which will kick America in its industrial guts - and stymie your economy for decades after Trump dies of old age!
Like I already said, as a matter of progress the Green Industry will eventually replace a lot of things. The issue is all of the unwarranted fearmongering in the meantime. It makes people frantic to the point where they become totally immersed in Climate Panic. That's not healthy.
 
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AV1611VET

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In the May 2000 issue of Reason Magazine, award-winning science correspondent Ronald Bailey wrote an excellent article titled “Earth Day, Then and Now” to provide some historical perspective on the 30th anniversary of Earth Day. In that article, Bailey noted that around the time of the first Earth Day, and in the years following, there was a “torrent of apocalyptic predictions” and many of those predictions were featured in his Reason article. Well, it’s now the 45th anniversary of Earth Day, and a good time to ask the question again that Bailey asked 15 years ago: How accurate were the predictions made around the time of the first Earth Day in 1970? The answer: “The prophets of doom were not simply wrong, but spectacularly wrong,” according to Bailey. Here are 18 examples of the spectacularly wrong predictions made around 1970 when the “green holy day” (aka Earth Day) started:

1. Harvard biologist George Wald estimated that “civilization will end within 15 or 30 years unless immediate action is taken against problems facing mankind.”

2. “We are in an environmental crisis which threatens the survival of this nation, and of the world as a suitable place of human habitation,” wrote Washington University biologist Barry Commoner in the Earth Day issue of the scholarly journal Environment.

3. The day after the first Earth Day, the New York Times editorial page warned, “Man must stop pollution and conserve his resources, not merely to enhance existence but to save the race from intolerable deterioration and possible extinction.”

4. “Population will inevitably and completely outstrip whatever small increases in food supplies we make,” Paul Ehrlich confidently declared in the April 1970 Mademoiselle. “The death rate will increase until at least 100-200 million people per year will be starving to death during the next ten years.”

5. “Most of the people who are going to die in the greatest cataclysm in the history of man have already been born,” wrote Paul Ehrlich in a 1969 essay titled “Eco-Catastrophe! “By…[1975] some experts feel that food shortages will have escalated the present level of world hunger and starvation into famines of unbelievable proportions. Other experts, more optimistic, think the ultimate food-population collision will not occur until the decade of the 1980s.”

6. Ehrlich sketched out his most alarmist scenario for the 1970 Earth Day issue of The Progressive, assuring readers that between 1980 and 1989, some 4 billion people, including 65 million Americans, would perish in the “Great Die-Off.”

7. “It is already too late to avoid mass starvation,” declared Denis Hayes, the chief organizer for Earth Day, in the Spring 1970 issue of The Living Wilderness.

8. Peter Gunter, a North Texas State University professor, wrote in 1970, “Demographers agree almost unanimously on the following grim timetable: by 1975 widespread famines will begin in India; these will spread by 1990 to include all of India, Pakistan, China and the Near East, Africa. By the year 2000, or conceivably sooner, South and Central America will exist under famine conditions….By the year 2000, thirty years from now, the entire world, with the exception of Western Europe, North America, and Australia, will be in famine.”

9. In January 1970, Life reported, “Scientists have solid experimental and theoretical evidence to support…the following predictions: In a decade, urban dwellers will have to wear gas masks to survive air pollution…by 1985 air pollution will have reduced the amount of sunlight reaching earth by one half….”

10. Ecologist Kenneth Watt told Time that, “At the present rate of nitrogen buildup, it’s only a matter of time before light will be filtered out of the atmosphere and none of our land will be usable.”

11. Barry Commoner predicted that decaying organic pollutants would use up all of the oxygen in America’s rivers, causing freshwater fish to suffocate.

12. Paul Ehrlich chimed in, predicting in his 1970 that “air pollution…is certainly going to take hundreds of thousands of lives in the next few years alone.” Ehrlich sketched a scenario in which 200,000 Americans would die in 1973 during “smog disasters” in New York and Los Angeles.

13. Paul Ehrlich warned in the May 1970 issue of Audubon that DDT and other chlorinated hydrocarbons “may have substantially reduced the life expectancy of people born since 1945.” Ehrlich warned that Americans born since 1946…now had a life expectancy of only 49 years, and he predicted that if current patterns continued this expectancy would reach 42 years by 1980, when it might level out.

14. Ecologist Kenneth Watt declared, “By the year 2000, if present trends continue, we will be using up crude oil at such a rate…that there won’t be any more crude oil. You’ll drive up to the pump and say, `Fill ‘er up, buddy,’ and he’ll say, `I am very sorry, there isn’t any.'”

15. Harrison Brown, a scientist at the National Academy of Sciences, published a chart in Scientific American that looked at metal reserves and estimated the humanity would totally run out of copper shortly after 2000. Lead, zinc, tin, gold, and silver would be gone before 1990.

16. Sen. Gaylord Nelson wrote in Look that, “Dr. S. Dillon Ripley, secretary of the Smithsonian Institute, believes that in 25 years, somewhere between 75 and 80 percent of all the species of living animals will be extinct.”

17. In 1975, Paul Ehrlich predicted that “since more than nine-tenths of the original tropical rainforests will be removed in most areas within the next 30 years or so, it is expected that half of the organisms in these areas will vanish with it.”

18. Kenneth Watt warned about a pending Ice Age in a speech. “The world has been chilling sharply for about twenty years,” he declared. “If present trends continue, the world will be about four degrees colder for the global mean temperature in 1990, but eleven degrees colder in the year 2000. This is about twice what it would take to put us into an ice age.”

SOURCE
 
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eclipsenow

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It's real. But the level of fearmongering over it is unwarranted.
That's an assertion - based on what evidence?

The first head of the IPCC was a Christian. There are Christian climatologists.

EG: Dr Katherine Hayhoe is an amazing example of a Christian excelling in science and environmental care. Many “Greenie crusaders” think she is awesome. The UN gave her one of their highest awards - “United Nations Champion of the Earth!” Server Busy

She says there are solid biblical reasons for Christians to get stuck into climate activism even as a Christian longs for the new world. (One day. We don’t know when.) As a result, we have a responsibility to hand over the world to our kids better than the way we inherited it. Indeed - this is standard Reformation thinking - and goes back to John Calvin.

This is a great episode of what is one of the best Christian podcasts on the planet.
The host is Australian Dr John Dickson - who now lives in Wheaton College USA.
I wish more American Christians would listen to this podcast - and especially this episode.
Good Earth


I'm sure it does and eventually they'll be replaced by the Green Industry dictators.
If Russia is still a dictatorship after their oil and gas are gone - maybe. But that's no reflection on wind and solar energy itself.

However, the 'black gold' has propped up many what I would consider to be illegitimate forms of government, start many wars, and oppress many people.

Most of those people are probably on death's doorstep out of the 67 million who die per year.
Absolutely incorrect. Yes - it's tricky.
But the epidemiological studies try to eliminate for the noise.
It's what medicine and science are all about.

Why do you jump to conclusions? Like why do hate vanilla ice cream? Why do you love pond scum? See what I mean?
No - I do not. You are avoiding valid questions about the POLLUTING, CORRUPTING, and VANISHING nature of fossil fuels. Let's run those 3 by renewables:-

POLLUTING? Where renewables do have some environmental footprint as they are mined, at least the air will be vastly cleaner.

CORRUPTING? Wind and solar operate best by Overbuilding them and connecting them up across vast continent-wide super-grids, which will encourage co-operation between nations.

VANISHING: They're renewable. They're not vanishing.

Like I already said, as a matter of progress the Green Industry will eventually replace a lot of things.
Excellent - I totally agree!

The issue is all of the unwarranted fearmongering in the meantime.
You assert and assert. But what data have you contributed?

Every time I discuss this with someone from MAGA who vaguely hedges their bets by asserting "Oh it's real - except it's not - they're exaggerating" - they make vague assertions, get tired, and run away.

Are you humble enough to ask yourself, what if you're wrong? What if peer-reviewed science in this case shows a real and present danger RIGHT NOW to the world, one that is gradually snowballing into something even more potentially harmful for our children, and disastrous for our grandchildren?

It makes people frantic to the point where they become totally immersed in Climate Panic. That's not healthy.
Neither is suffocating to death with pollution particulate late stage emphysema, or being a Ukrainian killed by Russian drones and missiles and tanks and armies all funded by gas and oil, or being an African farmer starving to death because the rains failed, because the measurable extra energy in the atmosphere moved the rainfall away from his country.

Climate change IS tricky. The raw principles are quite basic - we KNOW CO2 and methane and other gases trap heat, and by how much. But where that heat goes and what it is going to do? That's tricky, and deals with the vastly complex interactions between 2 major chaotic systems - the oceans and atmosphere!

But huge, broad, general patterns are emerging - and they are NOT good!

But there are still surprises. Sometimes it seems, in little corners of the world, there are areas where human models are wrong! The oceans off the East coast of Australia surprised the climatologists recently. There's something tricky going on with the water circulation and behaviour down in Antarctica at the moment.

In other words - the climate experts ARE telling us when they don't know certain things or were caught off guard by new trends! If you're listening. If you are open to paying attention to what they say.

Generally, though? Climate change IS a nightmare. We are changing the chemical composition of the atmosphere by doubling one of its key heat trapping gases - a gas that lasts hundreds to thousands of years.

How is that in any way a "conservative" action?
 
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Servus

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That's an assertion - based on what evidence?

The first head of the IPCC was a Christian. There are Christian climatologists.

EG: Dr Katherine Hayhoe is an amazing example of a Christian excelling in science and environmental care. Many “Greenie crusaders” think she is awesome. The UN gave her one of their highest awards - “United Nations Champion of the Earth!” Server Busy

She says there are solid biblical reasons for Christians to get stuck into climate activism even as a Christian longs for the new world. (One day. We don’t know when.) As a result, we have a responsibility to hand over the world to our kids better than the way we inherited it. Indeed - this is standard Reformation thinking - and goes back to John Calvin.

This is a great episode of what is one of the best Christian podcasts on the planet.
The host is Australian Dr John Dickson - who now lives in Wheaton College USA.
I wish more American Christians would listen to this podcast - and especially this episode.
Good Earth
There are Christians (some right here on CF) who believe the earth is flat and they produce a ton of evidence to support that belief. Other Christians cause upheavals by predicting when Jesus is going to return. Like the tread of CF about a Christian who said Jesus would return September 23rd 2025. Lots of Christians have given faulty and misleading information and started panics. Even if that wasn't their intention.
If Russia is still a dictatorship after their oil and gas are gone - maybe. But that's no reflection on wind and solar energy itself.

However, the 'black gold' has propped up many what I would consider to be illegitimate forms of government, start many wars, and oppress many people.
People are going to capitalize and exploit the Green Industry as much as they have with everything else. 150 years ago they were most likely doing so with the horse and buggy industry.
Absolutely incorrect. Yes - it's tricky.
But the epidemiological studies try to eliminate for the noise.
It's what medicine and science are all about.


No - I do not. You are avoiding valid questions about the POLLUTING, CORRUPTING, and VANISHING nature of fossil fuels. Let's run those 3 by renewables:-

POLLUTING? Where renewables do have some environmental footprint as they are mined, at least the air will be vastly cleaner.

CORRUPTING? Wind and solar operate best by Overbuilding them and connecting them up across vast continent-wide super-grids, which will encourage co-operation between nations.

VANISHING: They're renewable. They're not vanishing.
All that goes into making windmills needs to be taken into consideration. That's megatons of metal. What energy source is used to power windmill plants? Check out windmill junk yards.
Excellent - I totally agree!


You assert and assert. But what data have you contributed?
I'm not a Climate Change enthusiast or a wanabe scientist.
Every time I discuss this with someone from MAGA who vaguely hedges their bets by asserting "Oh it's real - except it's not - they're exaggerating" - they make vague assertions, get tired, and run away.

Are you humble enough to ask yourself, what if you're wrong? What if peer-reviewed science in this case shows a real and present danger RIGHT NOW to the world, one that is gradually snowballing into something even more potentially harmful for our children, and disastrous for our grandchildren?
My being right or wrong isn't going to matter any. The situation is going to proceed the same with or without me being in Climate Change Panic.
Neither is suffocating to death with pollution particulate late stage emphysema, or being a Ukrainian killed by Russian drones and missiles and tanks and armies all funded by gas and oil, or being an African farmer starving to death because the rains failed, because the measurable extra energy in the atmosphere moved the rainfall away from his country.

Climate change IS tricky. The raw principles are quite basic - we KNOW CO2 and methane and other gases trap heat, and by how much. But where that heat goes and what it is going to do? That's tricky, and deals with the vastly complex interactions between 2 major chaotic systems - the oceans and atmosphere!

But huge, broad, general patterns are emerging - and they are NOT good!

But there are still surprises. Sometimes it seems, in little corners of the world, there are areas where human models are wrong! The oceans off the East coast of Australia surprised the climatologists recently. There's something tricky going on with the water circulation and behaviour down in Antarctica at the moment.

In other words - the climate experts ARE telling us when they don't know certain things or were caught off guard by new trends! If you're listening. If you are open to paying attention to what they say.

Generally, though? Climate change IS a nightmare. We are changing the chemical composition of the atmosphere by doubling one of its key heat trapping gases - a gas that lasts hundreds to thousands of years.

How is that in any way a "conservative" action?
Okay, well I'll leave you to worry over it.
 
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