What is Christ's rest?

[JulieB67]

Phonetic Spelling: (sab-bat-is-mos')
Definition: Sabbath rest
Meaning: a keeping of the Sabbath, a Sabbath rest.

We've been down this road before many times but as I've said in the past keeping of the Sabbath which means rest period does not have to mean keeping of the weekly Sabbaton. It means a keeping of "rest" period. You are inserting it means keeping of "Sabbaton/the weekly Sabbath from a lexicon definition. When the Greek word means a rest. You won't find Sabbaton in the Hebrew verses. So that's not the rest that remains. They are two entirely different words. If the weekly Sabbath remained, the word would state it in those verses. But it's HIS rest that's the topic. And with your traditions of men you have turned it into which day of the week should one go to church.

Sabbatismos- a sabbatism, i.e. the repose of Christianity (as a type) of heaven)-rest That's the rest that's in Hebrews 4. That's the rest that remains.

And anyone walking in darkness is not on the light. Only when we are right with God are we in the light. We can hang all the law on loving God with all your heart, soul and mind (not one day of the week) and loving your neighbor as yourself. We will fall short of that in the flesh but that is what we are to always strive for.

Hebrew 4 is all about hearing the gospel and by belief and faith we enter into that rest. Christ did the work and by belief we enter into that rest. Just as God rested after he finished his work. That's the context.

As you often state we'll all see soon enough....

 

[SabbathBlessings]

We've been down this road before many times but as I've said in the past keeping of the Sabbath which means rest period does not have to mean keeping of the weekly Sabbaton. It means a keeping of "rest" period. You won't find Sabbaton in the Hebrew verses. So that's not the rest that remains. They are two entirely different words. If the weekly Sabbath remained, the word would state it in those verses. But it's HIS rest that's the topic. And you with your traditions of men have turned it into which day of the week should one go to church

The original Greek Word means this. I know it might be inconvenient to some



sabbatismos: Sabbath rest
Original Word: σαββατισμός
Part of Speech: Noun, Masculine
Transliteration: sabbatismos
Pronunciation: sab-bat-is-mos'
Phonetic Spelling: (sab-bat-is-mos')
Definition: Sabbath rest
Meaning: a keeping of the Sabbath, a Sabbath rest.


GREEK INTERLINEAR
HEBREWS 4:9 άρα (Then) απολείπεται (there is left) σαββατισμός (a Sabbath keeping) τω (to the) λαώ (people) του θεού (of God)

GREEK LEXICON OF THE NEW TESTAMENT, Abbott-Smith - G4520
*† σαββατισμός, - οῦ, ὁ(< σαββατίζω, to keep the sabbath, Exod 16:30, al.), a keeping sabbath, a sabbath rest: metaph., as in Mishna (Zorell, s.v.), Heb 4:9.†


STRONGS Greek 4520: A keeping of the Sabbath, a Sabbath rest. From a derivative of sabbaton; a 'sabbatism'

STRONGS CONCORDENCE
sabbatismos: a sabbath rest Definition: a sabbath rest Usage (DOING): a keeping of the Sabbath, a Sabbath rest.

GREEK-ENGLISH LEXICON OF THE NEW TESTAMENT. THAYER - G4520
G4520 — σαββατισμός σαββατισμου, ὁ (σαββατίζω to keep the sabbath);

And anyone walking in darkness is not on the light. Only when we are right with God are we in the light. We can hang all the law on loving God with all your heart, soul and mind (not one day of the week) and loving your neighbor as yourself. We will fall short of that in the flesh but that is what we are to always strive for.

Going away from God's law and testimony is not walking in light Isa 8:20

Read Deut 5 and than read Deut 6:1-5 to see what Moses was quoting when summarizing the greatest commandments that Jesus quoted from.

Hebrew 4 is all about hearing the gospel and by belief and faith we enter into that rest. Christ did the work and by belief we enter into that rest. Just as God rested after he finished his work. That's the context.

There are two rests in this passage not one. This was written probably 30 years after the Cross. Jesus never taught we didn't need to keep the Sabbath commandment. God said He would not alter the words of His covenant Psa 89:34 Exo 34:28 Deut 4:13 , not a jot or tittle Mat 5:18-19 so why would the author of Hebrews try to go against the God of the Universe said He wouldn't do and Jesus said the Sabbath would still be kept and why the apostles observed everything Jesus commanded, still observed every Sabbath decades after the Cross Acts 15:21 Acts 18:4 etc. because why you are teaching Hebrews 4 is the exact opposite and warning its trying to tell us, to come out of our rebellion to God, which is sin, which is breaking God's law 1 John 3:4 breaking one we break them all and have become a transgressor of God's law James 2:11-12

Hebrews 4 say the Sabbath rest remains for the people of God Heb 4:9NIV and the rest in this verse literally means Sabbath-keeping. Those who enter into Christ rest also (which means in addition) rest from their works (so two rests not one) as God did, which is on the seventh day Heb 4:4 Exo 20:11 Gen 2:1-3. So those who enter Christ rest also physical rest from works on the seventh day as God did, so we can keep it holy Exo 20:8-11 i.e. keeping of the Sabbath,. I think its a great deception to think we can profane God by breaking the Sabbath in the OT but it doesn't profane Him in the New Covenant Eze 22:26 when He changes not and told us not to break Mat 5:19-30 Mat 15:3-14 Mark 7:7-13. Jesus gives us warnings in His Holy Word because He loves us and wants us to take another path, but if you are comfortable with the warning Jesus gave Mat 5:19 that it some how doesn't apply to the 4th commandment, which is not just the commandment for the Sabbath, it is for all days, I guess we will all find out soon enough. Once He comes all of our decisions will be sealed Rev 22:11 our time is short.

Happy Sabbath all!

 

[JulieB67]

and the SDA church wouldn't be spending millions trying to convince mankind of its importance to salvation.

My brother almost got sucked in. He thought he had found the truth by watching this propaganda video promoted by the SDA church. I told him right off the bat after watching a few minutes that Noah was not trying to get anyone to repent and enter the ark. God had already made his choice of who would enter. I pointed him to the Bible which should always come before man's word. There was never any intention of having someone other than Noah and his family onboard. His had the perfect generations/pedigree. And then all of that stuff about going to church on Sunday being part of the mark of the beast. The irony in that is that we should worship God every day. But yeah, all of that comes from Ellen White, not God's word.

I will stick to God's word, not man's. And certainly not man's traditions.

 

[JulieB67]

The original Greek Word means this. I know it might be inconvenient to some

I posted out of my own actual Strong's Exhaustive which is translated from the Greek manuscripts. Not inconvenient at all. Published years ago. And again, this is the Sabbath (rest, not the weekly) that remains. You conveniently left out that it's the repose of Christianity (as a type of heaven) rest. And that's the rest we find in Christ. In the end, Sabbath means rest period. But you are inserting the weekly when it's not there. And a different word altogether.

 

[SabbathBlessings]

I posted out of my own actual Strong's Exhaustive which takes is translated from the Greek. Not inconvenient at all. Published years ago.

Yes exhaustive means it contains possibilities, I provided the literal translation from Stong’s which keeps in harmony the promise and Testimony of God Psa 89:34 Mat 5:18-19 Deut 4:2

 

[JesusFollowerForever]

The original Greek Word means this. I know it might be inconvenient to some



sabbatismos: Sabbath rest
Original Word: σαββατισμός
Part of Speech: Noun, Masculine
Transliteration: sabbatismos
Pronunciation: sab-bat-is-mos'
Phonetic Spelling: (sab-bat-is-mos')
Definition: Sabbath rest
Meaning: a keeping of the Sabbath, a Sabbath rest.


GREEK INTERLINEAR
HEBREWS 4:9 άρα (Then) απολείπεται (there is left) σαββατισμός (a Sabbath keeping) τω (to the) λαώ (people) του θεού (of God)

GREEK LEXICON OF THE NEW TESTAMENT, Abbott-Smith - G4520
*† σαββατισμός, - οῦ, ὁ(< σαββατίζω, to keep the sabbath, Exod 16:30, al.), a keeping sabbath, a sabbath rest: metaph., as in Mishna (Zorell, s.v.), Heb 4:9.†


STRONGS Greek 4520: A keeping of the Sabbath, a Sabbath rest. From a derivative of sabbaton; a 'sabbatism'

STRONGS CONCORDENCE
sabbatismos: a sabbath rest Definition: a sabbath rest Usage (DOING): a keeping of the Sabbath, a Sabbath rest.

GREEK-ENGLISH LEXICON OF THE NEW TESTAMENT. THAYER - G4520
G4520 — σαββατισμός σαββατισμου, ὁ (σαββατίζω to keep the sabbath);


Going away from God's law and testimony is not walking in light Isa 8:20

Read Deut 5 and than read Deut 6:1-5 to see what Moses was quoting when summarizing the greatest commandments that Jesus quoted from.

There are two rests in this passage not one. This was written probably 30 years after the Cross. Jesus never taught we didn't need to keep the Sabbath commandment. God said He would not alter the words of His covenant Psa 89:34 Exo 34:28 Deut 4:13 , not a jot or tittle Mat 5:18-19 so why would the author of Hebrews try to go against the God of the Universe said He wouldn't do and Jesus said the Sabbath would still be kept and why the apostles observed everything Jesus commanded, still observed every Sabbath decades after the Cross Acts 15:21 Acts 18:4 etc. because why you are teaching Hebrews 4 is the exact opposite and warning its trying to tell us, to come out of our rebellion to God, which is sin, which is breaking God's law 1 John 3:4 breaking one we break them all and have become a transgressor of God's law James 2:11-12

Hebrews 4 say the Sabbath rest remains for the people of God Heb 4:9NIV and the rest in this verse literally means Sabbath-keeping. Those who enter into Christ rest also (which means in addition) rest from their works (so two rests not one) as God did, which is on the seventh day Heb 4:4 Exo 20:11 Gen 2:1-3. So those who enter Christ rest also physical rest from works on the seventh day as God did, so we can keep it holy Exo 20:8-11 i.e. keeping of the Sabbath,. I think its a great deception to think we can profane God by breaking the Sabbath in the OT but it doesn't profane Him in the New Covenant Eze 22:26 when He changes not and told us not to break Mat 5:19-30 Mat 15:3-14 Mark 7:7-13. Jesus gives us warnings in His Holy Word because He loves us and wants us to take another path, but if you are comfortable with the warning Jesus gave Mat 5:19 that it some how doesn't apply to the 4th commandment, which is not just the commandment for the Sabbath, it is for all days, I guess we will all find out soon enough. Once He comes all of our decisions will be sealed Rev 22:11 our time is short.

Happy Sabbath all!

happy Sabbath SB!

 

[JulieB67]

I provided the literal translation from Stong’s

I went to the link you posted. Again, you omitted some of it.

STRONGS Greek 4520: A keeping of the Sabbath, a Sabbath rest. From a derivative of sabbaton; a 'sabbatism'

rest.
From a derivative of sabbaton; a "sabbatism", i.e. (figuratively) the repose of Christianity (as a type of heaven) -- rest.

And it's only used this once in this fashion. It stands apart from the weekly repose and rightly so.

 

[SabbathBlessings]

I went to the link you posted. Again, you omitted some of it.


rest.
From a derivative of sabbaton; a "sabbatism", i.e. (figuratively) the repose of Christianity (as a type of heaven) -- rest.

And it's only used this once in this fashion. It stands apart from the weekly repose and rightly so.

It doesn’t change the literal translation as shown by Strongs and many others which means keeping of the Sabbath and keeps in harmony with the Testimony and teachings of God. Psa 89:34 Mat 5:18 Mat 5:19-30 Mat 15:3-14 Mark 7:7-13 etc.

But agree with the figurative meaning as well no one in Christ is breaking His rest by being in rebellion to His commandments. Isa 48:18 Rev 14:11-12

 

[SabbathBlessings]

happy Sabbath SB!

Happy Sabbath my friend!

 

[Leaf473]

Brother, not so! There is the special case of when you first believed, where you do not have to do any work for your forgiveness, because God attributes your having believed as having worked, without needing to go to the temple.

No problem, my brother I'll reword it

We who have believed for at least several years can't have rest in Christ when we are disobeying God's commandments. It follows, then, that if someone is having rest in Christ, they are obeying God's commandments

The fear of the LORD is pure, enduring forever
the judgments of the LORD are true, being altogether righteous Psalm 19

David is an example of this special case where, because he believed in God's correction of his faith through the prophet Nathan, he did not have to go to the temple to receive forgiveness for his sin with Bathsheba. To have "believed" alone is not "faith" until you "obey" as the proper response to having "believed", which God calls "righteous". An example of someone who is not "righteous" is Cain, who refused to do what is right, letting sin control him.

“Why are you so angry?” the LORD asked Cain. “Why do you look so dejected? You will be accepted if you do what is right. But if you refuse to do what is right, then watch out! Sin is crouching at the door, eager to control you. But you must subdue it and be its master.” (Genesis 4:6-7 NLT)​

Under the new covenant, Abraham's "faith" that makes us right with God, unlike that of Cain equals faith that begins with "believed" God's promise to help us overcome sin plus the "righteous" action of obedience to God's instructions to complete our "faith" as God helps us to overcome sin's eager control of us. "Faith" is composed of the two parts God mentions Abraham has: Abraham "believed" God's promise & the "righteous" action of obedience to God that he later showed he had to achieve the promise.

FAITH = BELIEVED + RIGHTEOUS​

God, Instead of saying of Abraham that he has the right "faith" in Genesis 15:6, God mentions the two equivalent parts that make up "faith": "believed" and "righteous". To be "righteous" emphasizes the second part of Abraham's proper "faith". It is written in the following passage that the demons "believed" God, trembling in terror, but like Cain above, do not obey God to have "faith", as Abraham was shown to be "righteous" in his obeying God to help him to father many nations. Abraham's "faith" would obey God's instructions as God helps him to overcome sin, as he helped him to father many nations. Jesus' many forgivenesses prevent our past disobedience from defeating our future obedience, which Jesus knows we can obey "all" instructions with practice to mastery. Practice like a child who learns to walk by getting up again and again until he no longer falls. Practice that is evidenced in the many animal sacrifices of the earthly stand-in copy of the true temple in heaven. Where Jesus dispenses His many forgivenesses as our High Priest for our past sins when we pray for forgiveness. Jesus lives forever to complete the mastery through practice of obedience to God's instructions. In the following passage, the translators added the word "faith", not found in the original. By adding the word faith, the translators highlighted God's deliberate act of not mentioning the word "faith", because the equivalent of "faith" is the two parts that God mentioned Abraham had from the beginning, but we humans cannot say that Abraham was "righteous", until his obeying "faith" was shown most clear when he offered his son Isaac on the alter.

You say you have faith, for you believe that there is one God. Good for you! Even the demons believe this, and they tremble in terror. How foolish! Can’t you see that faith without good deeds is useless? Don’t you remember that our ancestor Abraham was shown to be right with God by his actions when he offered his son Isaac on the altar? You see, his faith and his actions worked together. His actions made his faith complete. And so it happened just as the Scriptures say: “Abraham believed God, and God counted him as righteous because of his faith.” He was even called the friend of God. So you see, we are shown to be right with God by what we do, not by faith alone. (James 2:19-24 NLT fixed)​

The "righteous" part of Abraham's "faith" after he "believed" God, was tested in the following passage and showed Abraham's complete "faith" in God, which God knew was there before we humans could say, through the offering of his son Isaac on the altar, that Abraham is "righteous" in him obeying God as his response to having "believed" God's promise. It is only said of Abraham that he had "faith" when he obeyed and not before he obeyed when he first "believed". "Believed" alone is not "faith" until you "obey" God and we are saved by "faith" that acts "righteous", obeying God's instructions that remove sin when obeyed and not by our having believed alone as demons also believed and are lost because they do not "obey" God's instructions that overcome sin when obeyed!

It was by faith that Abraham offered Isaac as a sacrifice when God was testing him. Abraham, who had received God’s promises, was ready to sacrifice his only son, Isaac, even though God had told him, “Isaac is the son through whom your descendants will be counted.” Abraham reasoned that if Isaac died, God was able to bring him back to life again. And in a sense, Abraham did receive his son back from the dead. (Hebrews 11:17-19 NLT)​

United in our hope for the soon return of Jesus, Jorge

 

[Leaf473]

We cannot SB, The problem is and has been since we came on this board is what are the commands we are to keep? You completely deny that P{Paul tells us the ten commandments were temporary, which also means you don't believe we are living in the new covenant era. Covenants do not work the way you teach. I we nullify one covenant to accept another one, then we are in no way responsible for observing the rules of the nullified one.

We can tell for sure what the new covenant has written on our hearts, and it surely is not the ritual weekly Sabbath. If it were written on our hearts, we wouldn't be having this debate and the SDA church wouldn't be spending millions trying to convince mankind of its importance to salvation.

I spent 40 y

I guess one can make believe just about anything. Sabbath observance, if a person observes it as required in the Old Covenant, is not a blessing at all. Isaiah 58 told the Israelites how they were to observe the Sabbath. No idle words like how is your garden growing would be permitted. What would you do with the rule not to do your own pleasure?

According to Ellen, one would be allowed to wade in the creek so long as one didn't go too deep. That requirement surely would have taken the pleasure out of wading.

Very interesting

 

[Leaf473]

Happy Sabbath to those so inclined
And happy first day of the week to those east of the sunset that's currently in about the middle of Africa

This is the day that the Lord has made, we will rejoice and be glad in it

 

[guevaraj]

The problem is and has been since we came on this board is what are the commands we are to keep? You completely deny that Paul tells us the ten commandments were temporary, which also means you don't believe we are living in the new covenant era. Covenants do not work the way you teach. I we nullify one covenant to accept another one, then we are in no way responsible for observing the rules of the nullified one.

Brother, Paul elevates the Ten Commandments, not eliminates them, when he tells us that there is a greater glory in Jesus' exemplary obedience than that obtainable through the "letters etched in stone."

We who have believed for at least several years can't have rest in Christ when we are disobeying God's commandments. It follows, then, that if someone is having rest in Christ, they are obeying God's commandments

There is a false rest in thinking you can continue sinning by disobeying the Sabbath in Hebrews chapter 4, but the sinner's end is near. I hope you have made progress in understanding the original languages. You must strive to understand God's word while there is still time, because there are many false prophets in the world, and you have been listening to them to gain the rest you feel from continuing in sin by disobeying the Sabbath. Paul separates the Ten Commandments "etched in stone" from the rest of the law when he tells us that Jesus is the model of obedience superior to the traditions of Judaism regarding the "letters etched in stone." Paul is not referring to all the laws, as the translators have forced, but only to the "letters etched in stone."

We are confident of all this because of our great trust in God through Christ. It is not that we think we are qualified to do anything on our own (circumcision is no longer done by humans). Our qualification comes from God (Jesus does the circumcision for us by removing Judaism's human traditions that cancel the Ten Commandments' removal of sin). He has enabled us to be ministers of his new covenant (Jesus as superior model of obedience to the Ten Commandments). This is a covenant not of the letter (Ten Commandments), but of the Spirit (Jesus as the model "Spirit" to image as in a mirror and not the Holy Spirit used as an excuse to disobey the Ten Commandments when Jesus obeyed them). The letter ends in death (sabotaged by Judaism to not remove sin); but the Spirit gives life (Jesus' circumcision of Judaism's disobedience for us to obey completely the Ten Commandments). The old way, with letters etched in stone (Ten Commandments), led to death (sabotaged by Judaism to not remove sin), though it began with such glory (leading to righteousness) that the people of Israel could not bear to look at Moses’ face. For his face shone with the glory of God (which is His righteousness expressed in the Ten Commandments), even though the brightness was already fading away (Judaism's disobedience to the Ten Commandments). Shouldn’t we expect far greater glory under the new way (Jesus as the model "Spirit" to image as in a mirror who obeyed completely the Ten Commandments for us to do likewise), now that the Holy (added by the translators) Spirit (not the Holy Spirit but Jesus as the model "Spirit" to image as in a mirror) gives life? If the old way, which brings condemnation (Judaism teaching disobedience to the Ten Commandments by canceling them with human traditions), was glorious (leading to righteousness), how much more glorious is the new way, which makes us right with God (removes sin)! In fact, that first glory was not glorious at all compared with the overwhelming glory of the new way. So if the old way, which has been replaced, was glorious (led to righteousness), how much more glorious is the new, which remains forever! Since this new way (of imaging as in a mirror the model "Spirit" of Jesus, rather than Judaism's teachings of disobedience) gives us such confidence, we can be very bold (learning to use God's name properly, which Judaism does not). We are not like Moses, who put a veil over his face so the people of Israel would not see the glory (of God's righteousness), even though it was destined to fade away (by Judaism's growing disobedience to the Ten Commandments). But the people’s minds were hardened (to disobey the Ten Commandments), and to this day whenever the old covenant is being read, the same veil covers their minds so they cannot understand the truth (of their disobedience by canceling God's Commandments with their own human traditions). And this veil can be removed only by believing in Christ (as the circumciser of Judaism's human traditions that cancel the Ten Commandments purpose to remove sin). Yes, even today when they read Moses’ writings, their hearts are covered with that veil, and they do not understand (they disobey the Ten Commandments by canceling them with human traditions). But whenever someone turns to the Lord, the veil is taken away. For the Lord is the Spirit (Jesus is the model "Spirit" to image as in a mirror who obeyed the Ten Commandments as our example and Paul is not referring to the Holy Spirit as an excuse to disobey the Ten Commandments), and wherever the Spirit of the Lord is, there is freedom (from sin and not from God's Ten Commandments). So all of us who have had that veil removed can see and reflect the glory of the Lord (in obeying completely the Ten Commandments by removing Judaism's disobedience). And the Lord—who is the Spirit (Jesus is the model "Spirit" Paul is telling us to image as in a mirror and not the Holy Spirit, whose job is to tell us things through prophets and remind us of Jesus as the model "Spirit" to image as in a mirror)—makes us more and more like him as we are changed into his glorious image. (2 Corinthians 3:4-18 NLT fixed and overlaid with commentary)​

United in our hope for the soon return of Jesus, Jorge

 

[Leaf473]

If it's helpful to anyone, this web page has both Strong's and Thayer's Greek Lexicon. Thayer's has the advantage of citing ancient sources where the word is used, in this case Plutarch

Strong's Greek: 4520. σαββατισμός (sabbatismos) -- Sabbath rest

the blessed rest from toils and troubles looked for in the age to come by the true worshippers of God and true Christians (R. V. sabbath rest): Hebrews 4:9. (Plutarch, de superstit. c. 3; ecclesiastical writings.)

 

[Leaf473]

Brother, Paul elevates the Ten Commandments, not eliminates them, when he tells us that there is a greater glory in Jesus' exemplary obedience than that obtainable through the "letters etched in stone."

There is a false rest in thinking you can continue sinning by disobeying the Sabbath in Hebrews chapter 4, but the sinner's end is near.

That's right! That's why I'm glad I have the Spirit in me bearing witness with my spirit that I am a child of God

Crying out Abba/Daddy


This is my Father’s world,
And to my list’ning ears
All nature sings, and round me rings
The music of the spheres - Maltbie D. Babcock

I hope you have made progress in understanding the original languages. You must strive to understand God's word while there is still time, because there are many false prophets in the world, and you have been listening to them to gain the rest you feel from continuing in sin by disobeying the Sabbath. Paul separates the Ten Commandments "etched in stone" from the rest of the law when he tells us that Jesus is the model of obedience superior to the traditions of Judaism regarding the "letters etched in stone." Paul is not referring to all the laws, as the translators have forced, but only to the "letters etched in stone."

We are confident of all this because of our great trust in God through Christ. It is not that we think we are qualified to do anything on our own (circumcision is no longer done by humans). Our qualification comes from God (Jesus does the circumcision for us by removing Judaism's human traditions that cancel the Ten Commandments' removal of sin). He has enabled us to be ministers of his new covenant (Jesus as superior model of obedience to the Ten Commandments). This is a covenant not of the letter (Ten Commandments), but of the Spirit (Jesus as the model "Spirit" to image as in a mirror and not the Holy Spirit used as an excuse to disobey the Ten Commandments when Jesus obeyed them). The letter ends in death (sabotaged by Judaism to not remove sin); but the Spirit gives life (Jesus' circumcision of Judaism's disobedience for us to obey completely the Ten Commandments). The old way, with letters etched in stone (Ten Commandments), led to death (sabotaged by Judaism to not remove sin), though it began with such glory (leading to righteousness) that the people of Israel could not bear to look at Moses’ face. For his face shone with the glory of God (which is His righteousness expressed in the Ten Commandments), even though the brightness was already fading away (Judaism's disobedience to the Ten Commandments). Shouldn’t we expect far greater glory under the new way (Jesus as the model "Spirit" to image as in a mirror who obeyed completely the Ten Commandments for us to do likewise), now that the Holy (added by the translators) Spirit (not the Holy Spirit but Jesus as the model "Spirit" to image as in a mirror) gives life? If the old way, which brings condemnation (Judaism teaching disobedience to the Ten Commandments by canceling them with human traditions), was glorious (leading to righteousness), how much more glorious is the new way, which makes us right with God (removes sin)! In fact, that first glory was not glorious at all compared with the overwhelming glory of the new way. So if the old way, which has been replaced, was glorious (led to righteousness), how much more glorious is the new, which remains forever! Since this new way (of imaging as in a mirror the model "Spirit" of Jesus, rather than Judaism's teachings of disobedience) gives us such confidence, we can be very bold (learning to use God's name properly, which Judaism does not). We are not like Moses, who put a veil over his face so the people of Israel would not see the glory (of God's righteousness), even though it was destined to fade away (by Judaism's growing disobedience to the Ten Commandments). But the people’s minds were hardened (to disobey the Ten Commandments), and to this day whenever the old covenant is being read, the same veil covers their minds so they cannot understand the truth (of their disobedience by canceling God's Commandments with their own human traditions). And this veil can be removed only by believing in Christ (as the circumciser of Judaism's human traditions that cancel the Ten Commandments purpose to remove sin). Yes, even today when they read Moses’ writings, their hearts are covered with that veil, and they do not understand (they disobey the Ten Commandments by canceling them with human traditions). But whenever someone turns to the Lord, the veil is taken away. For the Lord is the Spirit (Jesus is the model "Spirit" to image as in a mirror who obeyed the Ten Commandments as our example and Paul is not referring to the Holy Spirit as an excuse to disobey the Ten Commandments), and wherever the Spirit of the Lord is, there is freedom (from sin and not from God's Ten Commandments). So all of us who have had that veil removed can see and reflect the glory of the Lord (in obeying completely the Ten Commandments by removing Judaism's disobedience). And the Lord—who is the Spirit (Jesus is the model "Spirit" Paul is telling us to image as in a mirror and not the Holy Spirit, whose job is to tell us things through prophets and remind us of Jesus as the model "Spirit" to image as in a mirror)—makes us more and more like him as we are changed into his glorious image. (2 Corinthians 3:4-18 NLT fixed and overlaid with commentary)​

United in our hope for the soon return of Jesus, Jorge

 

[guevaraj]

That's right! That's why I'm glad I have the Spirit in me bearing witness with my spirit that I am a child of God

Brother, you have a misunderstanding about the Spirit bearing witness with your spirit that you are a child of God. Again, the translators added the word "Holy" before "Spirit," forcing a message not found in the original, where the Spirit mentioned refers to Jesus as our model of obedience to compare ourselves with, as if we were looking in a mirror, and not to the Holy Spirit as an excuse to continue sinning because a sinner finds pleasure in disobeying God's will. Being a child of God is not based on how you feel, but on how you compare to Jesus' model of obedience. The message before your quote makes it clear that Jesus fulfilled His part in granting us forgiveness for our past sins as our High Priest, and now it is up to you to respond to the way He has opened for us in the heavenly temple to grow in obedience through practice. Only a few hear God's message in Hebrews chapter 4 to do what pleases Jesus as our model Spirit to compare ourselves with.

So now there is no condemnation for those who belong to Christ Jesus. And because you belong to him, the power of the life-giving Spirit has freed you from the power of sin that leads to death. The law was unable to save us because of the weakness of our sinful nature. So God did what the law could not do. He sent his own Son in a body like the bodies we sinners have. And in that body God declared an end to sin’s control over us by giving his Son as a sacrifice for our sins. He did this so that the just requirement of the law would be fully satisfied for us, who no longer follow our sinful nature but instead follow the Spirit. Those who are dominated by the sinful nature think about sinful things, but those who are controlled by the Holy (not found in the original) Spirit (Jesus as our model to compare ourselves with and not the Holy Spirit as the excuse to continue in sin because to sin feels good to a sinner) think about things that please the Spirit. So letting your sinful nature control your mind leads to death. But letting the Spirit control your mind leads to life and peace. For the sinful nature is always hostile to God. It never did obey God’s laws, and it never will. That’s why those who are still under the control of their sinful nature can never please God. (Romans 8:1-8 NLT fixed and overlaid with commentary)​

United in our hope for the soon return of Jesus, Jorge

 

[Leaf473]

Brother, you have a misunderstanding about the Spirit bearing witness with your spirit that you are a child of God. Again, the translators added the word "Holy" before "Spirit,"

But you are not in the flesh but in the Spirit, if it is so that the Spirit of God dwells in you

Spirit of God, whatever name one wishes to use

...forcing a message not found in the original, where the Spirit mentioned refers to Jesus as our model of obedience to compare ourselves with, as if we were looking in a mirror, and not to the Holy Spirit as an excuse to continue sinning because a sinner finds pleasure in disobeying God's will.

Being a child of God is not based on how you feel,

Amen to that, it's not a feeling ✝

...but on how you compare to Jesus' model of obedience. The message before your quote makes it clear that Jesus fulfilled His part in granting us forgiveness for our past sins as our High Priest, and now it is up to you to respond to the way He has opened for us in the heavenly temple to grow in obedience through practice. Only a few hear God's message in Hebrews chapter 4 to do what pleases Jesus as our model Spirit to compare ourselves with.

So now there is no condemnation for those who belong to Christ Jesus. And because you belong to him, the power of the life-giving Spirit has freed you from the power of sin that leads to death. The law was unable to save us because of the weakness of our sinful nature. So God did what the law could not do. He sent his own Son in a body like the bodies we sinners have. And in that body God declared an end to sin’s control over us by giving his Son as a sacrifice for our sins. He did this so that the just requirement of the law would be fully satisfied for us, who no longer follow our sinful nature but instead follow the Spirit. Those who are dominated by the sinful nature think about sinful things, but those who are controlled by the Holy (not found in the original) Spirit (Jesus as our model to compare ourselves with and not the Holy Spirit as the excuse to continue in sin because to sin feels good to a sinner) think about things that please the Spirit. So letting your sinful nature control your mind leads to death. But letting the Spirit control your mind leads to life and peace. For the sinful nature is always hostile to God. It never did obey God’s laws, and it never will. That’s why those who are still under the control of their sinful nature can never please God. (Romans 8:1-8 NLT fixed and overlaid with commentary)​

United in our hope for the soon return of Jesus, Jorge

Amen to obeying. And since one can't have rest In Christ if one isn't obeying, one must be obeying if one has rest In Christ

Good to hear from you again, my brother!

The sceptre shall not depart from Judah, nor a lawgiver from between his feet, until Shiloh come; and unto him shall the gathering of the people be ✝

 

[Leaf473]

@guevaraj my brother, you frequently refer to feeling. Do you experience the Spirit of God bearing witness with your spirit?

Yo cantaré de la bondad de Dios
(I will sing if the goodness of God)

 

[Aseyesee]

Christ said:

Mat 11:28 Come to Me, all you who labor and are heavy laden, and I will give you rest. 29 Take My yoke upon you and learn from Me, for I am [a]gentle and lowly in heart, and you will find rest for your souls. 30 For My yoke is easy and My burden is light.”

Many believe and teach Christ's rest some how relieves our moral obligation to obey the Sabbath commandment, but is this what Jesus is teaching?

Jesus said this and still kept the Sabbath going to church reading God's word Luke 4:16 as the apostles did following in His footsteps keeping every Sabbath in the same manner decades after the Cross Acts 15:21 Acts 13:42 Acts 13:44 Acts 18:4 as the Sabbath is a holy convocation Lev 23:3 and we see that continuing on in the New Heaven and New Earth Isa 66:22-23

So what rest is Christ referring to?

Psa 38:3 There is no soundness in my flesh because of thine anger; neither is there any rest in my bones because of my sin.4 For mine iniquities are gone over mine head: as an heavy burden they are too heavy for me.

The rest Jesus is giving us when we come to Him is rest from our sins. Jesus came to save us from our sins Mat 1:21 we are not saved in our sins Heb 10:26-30

Sin is:
1 John 3:4 Whoever commits sin also commits lawlessness, and sin is lawlessness.
James 2:11-12 For He who said, “Do not commit adultery,” also said, “Do not murder.” Now if you do not commit adultery, but you do murder, you have become a transgressor of the law. quoting and contrasting directly from the Ten Commandments breaking one we break them all
Rom 7:7 What shall we say then? Is the law sin? Certainly not! On the contrary, I would not have known sin except through the law. For I would not have known covetousness unless the law had said, “You shall not covet.”
Rom 14:23 But he who doubts is condemned if he eats, because he does not eat from faith; for whatever is not from faith is sin.


We also see this play out in the last days

Rev 14:11 And the smoke of their torment ascends forever and ever; and they have no rest day or night, who worship the beast and his image, and whoever receives the mark of his name.”

Compared to the antidote found in the next verse

Rev 14:12 Here is the patience of the saints; here are those who keep the commandments of God and the faith of Jesus.

If we understand Christ rest, it will help us understand Hebrews 4 much better as it is speaking of two rests, not one.

We are invited to enter into Christ rest, just like the Israelites, Heb 4:1 but many didn't enter due to disobedience (sin) even through the same gospel was preached Heb 4:6

Why the Holy Spirit is calling us "TODAY" to come our of our rebellion (sin) and enter His rest quoting directly from Psa 95

Heb 3:7 Therefore, as the Holy Spirit says:

“Today, if you will hear His voice,
8 Do not harden your hearts as in the rebellion,
In the day of trial in the wilderness,
9 Where your fathers tested Me, tried Me,
And saw My works forty years.
10 Therefore I was angry with that generation,
And said, ‘They always go astray in their heart,
And they have not known My ways.’
11 So I swore in My wrath,
‘They shall not enter My rest.’ ”

Why there is another day spoken of, which is TODAY God is calling us from our sins and come unto Him and He will give us rest from the burdens of sin but we need to enter through faith Heb 4:2

What did the Israelites disobey during their trial of the wilderness that led them to not enter into Christ rest

Eze 22:13 Yet the house of Israel rebelled against Me in the wilderness; they did not walk in My statutes; they despised My judgments, ‘which, if a man does, he shall live by them’; and they greatly defiled My Sabbaths. Then I said I would pour out My fury on them in the wilderness, to consume them.

Why the next verse says there remains a Sabbath-rest for the people of God Heb 4:9 and the Sabbath rest is according to the commandment Luke 23:56 because breaking God's law is sin 1 John 3:4 James 2:11-12

The next verse clearly shows these two rests

Heb 4:10 For he who has entered His rest has himself also (in addition) ceased from his works as God did from His.

God ceased from His works on the seventh day, Heb 4:4 Gen 2:1-3 just like God commanded us to Exo 20:8-11 as we were made in His image and likeness so to enter His rest one also ceases from work on the seventh day Sabbath. Exo 20:10

Heb 4:11 Let us therefore be diligent to enter that rest, lest anyone fall according to the same example of disobedience

We don't want to follow the same mistakes of the Israelites who sinned and never entered their rest in Canaan, which is a type of heaven. The same applies to us to enter in Heaven Rev 22:14

12 For the word of God is living and powerful, and sharper than any two-edged sword, piercing even to the division of soul and spirit, and of joints and marrow, and is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart. 13 And there is no creature hidden from His sight, but all things are naked and open to the eyes of Him to whom we must give account.

In Christ rest no one is in rebellion or breaking God's law, why there is just peace
Isa 48:18
Oh, that you had heeded My commandments!
Then your peace would have been like a river,
And your righteousness like the waves of the sea.

Jesus is coming soon and we need to come out of our rebellion to Him and obey Him and His commandments, His version, God’s own personal Testimony Exo 31:18 written personally by God, His law and will Psa 40:8, It’s why we see the ark of the covenant, which holds God’s personal Testimony, the Ten Commandments written and spoken by the God of the Universe revealed at the last Trumpet before Jesus comes in all His Glory Rev 11:19 as it is the standard of what God will judge all man 2 Cor 5:10 James 2:10-12 Ecc 12:13-14 Mat 5:19-30 Rev 11:18-19 Rev 22:14-15 and removing anything God covers under His mercy seat which below sits God’s Testimony His Ten Commandments, laying it aside as to say its not for me, I do not believe that's going to work out so well as Jesus taught plainly Mat 15:3-14 Mark 7:7-13

So lets be willing to forsake our sins Pro 28:13 and come to Jesus, He will give us rest.

Sonship (no natural gender implied) is this rest. ...

 

[SabbathBlessings]

Sonship (no natural gender implied) is this rest. ...

Not sure what this means, because we were created we are entitled to God’s rest, is this what you are implying but don’t have to obey God’s voice in how to keep the Sabbath. God in His own words said the Sabbath is some man does.

Isa 56:2 Blessed is the man who does this,
And the son of man who lays hold on it;
Who keeps from defiling the Sabbath,
And keeps his hand from doing any evil.”

Exo 20:8 Remember the Sabbath day, to keep it holy