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Whether or not we have free will, we cannot have a relationship with God God unless and until we have Jesus Christ as our Saviour. Without Him as our Saviour, our wills are in bondage to Satan and sin.
Of course God is the one to open eyes and ears, I believe He is the source and initiator of all good toward us, but we also have the opportunity to respond or agree and yield to His good toward us or reject it. I don't believe God is selective in His goodness, He makes the rain shine on the just and the unjust. But who do we thank for that rain. God, the Creator of heaven and earth or an idol (Baal, god of storm, thor god of thunder or Zeus god of lightning or an unknown God).
Noted
The word (andros) can be translated as either "man" or "husband", depending on the context. Most translations render it as "man" to emphasize humanity in general.
I understand God's revelation as both general and special, general in the sense that God has revealed Himself through his creation, conscience and human experience. He is the source. (Psalm 19:1-4), (Romans 1:19-20) and the testimony in Acts 17 which was a starting point for Paul sharing the truth.
God initiates, draws, and compels us to recognize our sinful state and need for His provision, but we must acknowledge and accept that grace.
Amen
And I also want to impart to you the vision, etc.
I'm struggling with the question as to what practical use it might have to or for the rest of you in your day to day lives right now, etc?
And I'm not just talking about predestination and free will, but the whole truth in general right now?
Was Noah’s will in bondage to sin? What about Job or Abraham? They didn’t know anything about Christ.
I am rejecting it because it's a false doctrine. Here are two major examples of the Bible showing that we DO have freedom of choice.
I think the exact opposite is true. Logic and reason will bear out that we are given free will and we choose what we desire, we are not programmed one way and other people another way. Without free will, we cannot choose to follow God's plan. This was the understanding of Christ and his disciples.
If we want to talk about pre-conceived, isn't that what your whole theology is based on? The fact that God preconceived all our thoughts and actions? Are God's thoughts and actions pre-destined or out of his control? I think you will agree that they are not. Being created in God's image means we are created with free will. Anything other than that is a false teaching. Perhaps you are not a member of the Calvinist Church but you follow his teaching to the letter. I choose to follow the teachings of Jesus, his disciples, and the prophets who never taught that we are predestind or in other words preprogrammed to be either a sinner or a saint. You're way off on this one.
It isn't that Augustine didn't have much faith in his writings. Rather Augustine understood the grave (yes, that the right word) error he had made in not fully understanding and acknowledging the divine sovereigty of God. His writings include great insight but, like everyone, one has to measure those insights against the scriptures. That being said, I wouldn't throw out the baby with the bathwater. Otherwise, you would have to disregard a number of great writings like Origen who was considered a heretic. And Augustine at 72 seems like a spring chicken to me. :O)
Woa Woa, wait a minute. “What we want to be true”? According to what you’re teaching here we can’t want anything. We can’t have wants or desires, that is a product of free will. According to what you’re teaching here we can only want what God makes us want. We can only accept what God makes us accept, we can only believe what God makes us believe. So it seems like you’re getting not applying your own theology to your statement here because according to your theology we are completely unaccountable for anything we say or do. So if you disagree with anything we say or do you’ll have to take that up with God because He’s the One writing this, we’re just the puppets.
Wanting to Biblically understand is a good thing. . .and what we usually find out is that God is sovereign (Da 4:35).
No, you haven't.
Where do you get the idea that God does only what fallen man finds suitable, fair?
"Of course God is the one to open eyes and ears, I believe He is the source and initiator of all good toward us"Of course God is the one to open eyes and ears, I believe He is the source and initiator of all good toward us, but we also have the opportunity to respond or agree and yield to His good toward us or reject it. I don't believe God is selective in His goodness, He makes the rain shine on the just and the unjust. But who do we thank for that rain. God, the Creator of heaven and earth or an idol (Baal, god of storm, thor god of thunder or Zeus god of lightning or an unknown God).
Paul in Acts 17 proclaimed to them the God that they ignorantly didn't know. And to this, some mocked, some were curious and wanted to know more and a few believed. But each were given an opportunity to respond. Maybe for some it was a seed awaiting future growth, for others it was water for nourishment, for others the soil is hard, as the hearts. But at the end of the day God brings growth. We have the responsibility to continue to trust that He will bring about that growth.
Noted
The word (andros) can be translated as either "man" or "husband", depending on the context. Most translations render it as "man" to emphasize humanity in general.
Some translations (NIV) says "husband's will" which is most likely based on a patriarchal culture, it would of been the husband's prerogative to ensure his line continues. But either way the point is, the new birth is God's divine work, which we receive when we accept/acknowledge Him.
I understand God's revelation as both general and special, general in the sense that God has revealed Himself through his creation, conscience and human experience. He is the source. (Psalm 19:1-4), (Romans 1:19-20) and the testimony in Acts 17 which was a starting point for Paul sharing the truth.
Special revelation is what we know from God's Word, the Person of Jesus Christ and the Holy Spirit revealing these deeper truths abouts God's character, nature and His plans of redemption for his creation. He is still the source.
Humanity is accountable to God regardless. He can reveal Himself in unique ways (even in our dreams). God is sovereign in how he desires to do this. But we still have to respond.
Yet in His grace, by intimately knowing Him, we are empowered to live our lives holy for Him, our lives a testimony to His goodness, so others may glimpse His love toward His creation. Which too becomes both a compulsion and a testimony.
God initiates, draws, and compels us to recognize our sinful state and need for His provision, but we must acknowledge and accept that grace.
As Jesus said, No one can come to me unless the Father who sent me draws them (John 6:44). Ephesians 2:8-9, For by grace you have been saved through faith. And this is not your own doing; it is the gift of God, not a result of works, so that no one may boast.
Our acknowledgement and acceptance of God's grace are not mere human decisions, but rather responses to God's sovereign work of compelling and drawing us to Himself. But we have to acknowledge we need His provision to remedy our sinful condition. As He impresses on us, we yield. His grace is enough and it's by that grace that we can trust Him and surrender to His love.
"
Amen
God is perfect, God is merciful and God is just and on the side of justice.
I never said you did.
No; no one does.
I believe God. I don't believe your position, since you cannot even defend it.
You have one writer that supported this idea. I writer who wrote two books of retractions of his earlier beliefs. And the Orthodox Church did not teach Pelagianism that’s an exaggeration. They actually refuted Pelagianism. What they teach is that our cooperation is required with God’s calling which is a semi-Pelagian theology. Pelagian’s theology was much too radical, teaching things like man is capable of obeying all of God’s commandments and attaining salvation without the need for Christ’s atonement. You’re quoting one late 4th century writer who retracted a massive amount of his previous writings and a local synod that is NOT an ecumenical council. I’m quoting a 2nd century writer who was taught by Polycarp who was a disciple of John. So your evidence doesn’t appear in church history for the first 400 years of the church, mine appears in the first 170 years by a writing that is unanimously accepted in the church and always has been. So I don’t think you’re evaluating the evidence very objectively.
I didn't say that . . .
He gave Adam the ability to choose righteousness or unrighteousness.
My answer goes to the premise of your question--i.e., that man is the measure of goodness and justice--rather than to the question itself. God addresses that premise in:
I have presented the Bible's view of God. . .which you see as illogical.
And what did God do in Jesus?
Do you believe his word which has been presented to you above?
