Works Relation to Salvation

[HIM]

Yet there it says what?

You said in the quote below, "thus it was the ten commandments were to be in the hearts of the Israelites. They were not to be hidden from them nor be far away from them. They were to be in their mouths and hearts so they could obey. This is no different than the new covenant."

Deuteronomy 30: 11 ¶ For this commandment which I command thee this day, it is not hidden from thee, neither is it far off.
12 It is not in heaven, that thou shouldest say, Who shall go up for us to heaven, and bring it unto us, that we may hear it, and do it?
13 Neither is it beyond the sea, that thou shouldest say, Who shall go over the sea for us, and bring it unto us, that we may hear it, and do it?
14 But the word is very nigh unto thee, in thy mouth, and in thy heart, that thou mayest do it.

Thus the 10 commandments were to be in the hearts of the Israelites. They were not to be hidden from them nor be far away from them. They were to be in their mouths and hearts so they could obey. This is no different than the new covenant. And the Israelites were to have a personal relationship with God as they spent the next forty years being led by the pillar of cloud by day and pillar of fire by night as well as being fed by manna. It's no wonder God found fault with them as He performed daily miracles for them. They were without excuse for their rebellious attitudes.

So it was shared to you That it is Not just the ten but the commandments and statutes contained in the Book of the Law is what the text states. And the commandment that they are instructed to keep in verse 11 is the last one given. And that my friend is hearkening unto the voice of the Lord so they can keep the commandments and statutes contained in the Book of the Law. This is what is not hidden or far off.

The voice of the Lord is not in heaven or in the depth of the see that we need to send someone after it so we have it, For His Voice, His Word is in our hearts and our mouths that we do the commandments and statutes contained in the Book of the Law. So let's hearken unto the voice of the Lord our God. For His Word, is life. Choose Life and live. That is the faith in which we preach.

That is why Paul states in His Paraphrase of these text in Romans 10:6-8 Christ rather than voice of God. For Christ is the voice, the word of God.
To which you posted as a rebuttal the quote below, ignoring what was shared here. The fact they were, we are to hearken unto the voice of the Lord our God to keep the commandments and statutes contained in the Book of the Law. That they, we do not have to send someone to heaven or the depths of the sea to get this anointing. Because the word, through the voice of the Lord our God is in our hearts that we do the keeping of His commandments and statutes contained in the Book of the Law through Christ indwelling. That is the faith in which we preach.

The book of the law as referred to by Moses was not covered by the mercy seat. It was stored in a pocket outside the ark. The failure of the Israelites/Jews was to keep God's moral law, the 10 commandments. The law of blessings and cursings found in Deuteronomy is related to, but separate from the 10 commandments as Moses said it was to be a witness against them. No where in scripture are the 10 commandments referred to as a witness against anyone.

1Kings 22 is a direct reference to this law as Josiah feared curses pronounced in it against Israel for not keeping the law of God.

1Kings 22: 15 ¶ And she said unto them, Thus saith the Lord God of Israel, Tell the man that sent you to me,
16 Thus saith the Lord, Behold, I will bring evil upon this place, and upon the inhabitants thereof, even all the words of the book which the king of Judah hath read:
17 Because they have forsaken me, and have burned incense unto other gods, that they might provoke me to anger with all the works of their hands; therefore my wrath shall be kindled against this place, and shall not be quenched.
18 But to the king of Judah which sent you to inquire of the Lord, thus shall ye say to him, Thus saith the Lord God of Israel, As touching the words which thou hast heard;
19 Because thine heart was tender, and thou hast humbled thyself before the Lord, when thou heardest what I spake against this place, and against the inhabitants thereof, that they should become a desolation and a curse, and hast rent thy clothes, and wept before me; I also have heard thee, saith the Lord.
20 Behold therefore, I will gather thee unto thy fathers, and thou shalt be gathered into thy grave in peace; and thine eyes shall not see all the evil which I will bring upon this place. And they brought the king word again.

None of which you posted here in this quote above shows anything contrary to what was shared to you in respect to Deut 30:10-14.

However, did you notice in Deut 30:10 that the Judgements are not mentioned just the commandments and statutes in respect to us hearkening unto the voice of the Lord our God?

Or maybe the numerous moral commandments and statutes that are not in the Ten but are in the Book of the Law?

 

[Gary K]

You said in the quote below, "thus it was the ten commandments were to be in the hearts of the Israelites. They were not to be hidden from them nor be far away from them. They were to be in their mouths and hearts so they could obey. This is no different than the new covenant."


So it was shared to you That it is Not just the ten but the commandments and statutes contained in the Book of the Law is what the text states. And the commandment that they are instructed to keep in verse 11 is the last one given. And that my friend is hearkening unto the voice of the Lord so they can keep the commandments and statutes contained in the Book of the Law. This is what is not hidden or far off.

The voice of the Lord is not in heaven or in the depth of the see that we need to send someone after it so we have it, For His Voice, His Word is in our hearts and our mouths that we do the commandments and statutes contained in the Book of the Law. So let's hearken unto the voice of the Lord our God. For His Word, is life. Choose Life and live. That is the faith in which we preach.

That is why Paul states in His Paraphrase of these text in Romans 10:6-8 Christ rather than voice of God. For Christ is the voice, the word of God.
To which you posted as a rebuttal the quote below, ignoring what was shared here. The fact they were, we are to hearken unto the voice of the Lord our God to keep the commandments and statutes contained in the Book of the Law. That they, we do not have to send someone to heaven or the depths of the sea to get this anointing. Because the word, through the voice of the Lord our God is in our hearts that we do the keeping of His commandments and statutes contained in the Book of the Law through Christ indwelling. That is the faith in which we preach.

None of which you posted here in this quote above shows anything contrary to what was shared to you in respect to Deut 30:10-14.

However, did you notice in Deut 30:10 that the Judgements are not mentioned just the commandments and statutes in respect to us hearkening unto the voice of the Lord our God?

Or maybe the numerous moral commandments and statutes that are not in the Ten but are in the Book of the Law?

You act as if the rest of the book of Deuteronomy doesn't exist.

Deuteronomy 27: 9 ¶ And Moses and the priests the Levites spake unto all Israel, saying, Take heed, and hearken, O Israel; this day thou art become the people of the Lord thy God.
10 Thou shalt therefore obey the voice of the Lord thy God, and do his commandments and his statutes, which I command thee this day.
11 ¶ And Moses charged the people the same day, saying,
12 These shall stand upon mount Gerizim to bless the people, when ye are come over Jordan; Simeon, and Levi, and Judah, and Issachar, and Joseph, and Benjamin:
13 And these shall stand upon mount Ebal to curse; Reuben, Gad, and Asher, and Zebulun, Dan, and Naphtali.
14 ¶ And the Levites shall speak, and say unto all the men of Israel with a loud voice,
15 Cursed be the man that maketh any graven or molten image, an abomination unto the Lord, the work of the hands of the craftsman, and putteth it in a secret place. And all the people shall answer and say, Amen.
16 Cursed be he that setteth light by his father or his mother. And all the people shall say, Amen.
17 Cursed be he that removeth his neighbour’s landmark. And all the people shall say, Amen.
18 Cursed be he that maketh the blind to wander out of the way. And all the people shall say, Amen.
19 Cursed be he that perverteth the judgment of the stranger, fatherless, and widow. And all the people shall say, Amen.
20 Cursed be he that lieth with his father’s wife; because he uncovereth his father’s skirt. And all the people shall say, Amen.
21 Cursed be he that lieth with any manner of beast. And all the people shall say, Amen.
22 Cursed be he that lieth with his sister, the daughter of his father, or the daughter of his mother. And all the people shall say, Amen.
23 Cursed be he that lieth with his mother in law. And all the people shall say, Amen.
24 Cursed be he that smiteth his neighbour secretly. And all the people shall say, Amen.
25 Cursed be he that taketh reward to slay an innocent person. And all the people shall say, Amen.
26 Cursed be he that confirmeth not all the words of this law to do them. And all the people shall say, Amen.

Deuteronomy 28: 1 AND it shall come to pass, if thou shalt hearken diligently unto the voice of the Lord thy God, to observe and to do all his commandments which I command thee this day, that the Lord thy God will set thee on high above all nations of the earth:
2 And all these blessings shall come on thee, and overtake thee, if thou shalt hearken unto the voice of the Lord thy God.
3 Blessed shalt thou be in the city, and blessed shalt thou be in the field.
4 Blessed shall be the fruit of thy body, and the fruit of thy ground, and the fruit of thy cattle, the increase of thy kine, and the flocks of thy sheep.
5 Blessed shall be thy basket and thy store.
6 Blessed shalt thou be when thou comest in, and blessed shalt thou be when thou goest out.
7 The Lord shall cause thine enemies that rise up against thee to be smitten before thy face: they shall come out against thee one way, and flee before thee seven ways.
8 The Lord shall command the blessing upon thee in thy storehouses, and in all that thou settest thine hand unto; and he shall bless thee in the land which the Lord thy God giveth thee.
9 The Lord shall establish thee an holy people unto himself, as he hath sworn unto thee, if thou shalt keep the commandments of the Lord thy God, and walk in his ways.
10 And all people of the earth shall see that thou art called by the name of the Lord; and they shall be afraid of thee.
11 And the Lord shall make thee plenteous in goods, in the fruit of thy body, and in the fruit of thy cattle, and in the fruit of thy ground, in the land which the Lord sware unto thy fathers to give thee.
12 The Lord shall open unto thee his good treasure, the heaven to give the rain unto thy land in his season, and to bless all the work of thine hand: and thou shalt lend unto many nations, and thou shalt not borrow.
13 And the Lord shall make thee the head, and not the tail; and thou shalt be above only, and thou shalt not be beneath; if that thou hearken unto the commandments of the Lord thy God, which I command thee this day, to observe and to do them:
14 And thou shalt not go aside from any of the words which I command thee this day, to the right hand, or to the left, to go after other gods to serve them.
15 ¶ But it shall come to pass, if thou wilt not hearken unto the voice of the Lord thy God, to observe to do all his commandments and his statutes which I command thee this day; that all these curses shall come upon thee, and overtake thee:
16 Cursed shalt thou be in the city, and cursed shalt thou be in the field.
17 Cursed shall be thy basket and thy store.
18 Cursed shall be the fruit of thy body, and the fruit of thy land, the increase of thy kine, and the flocks of thy sheep.
19 Cursed shalt thou be when thou comest in, and cursed shalt thou be when thou goest out.
20 The Lord shall send upon thee cursing, vexation, and rebuke, in all that thou settest thine hand unto for to do, until thou be destroyed, and until thou perish quickly; because of the wickedness of thy doings, whereby thou hast forsaken me.
21 The Lord shall make the pestilence cleave unto thee, until he have consumed thee from off the land, whither thou goest to possess it.
22 The Lord shall smite thee with a consumption, and with a fever, and with an inflammation, and with an extreme burning, and with the sword, and with blasting, and with mildew; and they shall pursue thee until thou perish.
23 And thy heaven that is over thy head shall be brass, and the earth that is under thee shall be iron.
24 The Lord shall make the rain of thy land powder and dust: from heaven shall it come down upon thee, until thou be destroyed.
25 The Lord shall cause thee to be smitten before thine enemies: thou shalt go out one way against them, and flee seven ways before them: and shalt be removed into all the kingdoms of the earth.
26 And thy carcase shall be meat unto all fowls of the air, and unto the beasts of the earth, and no man shall fray them away.
27 The Lord will smite thee with the botch of Egypt, and with the emerods, and with the scab, and with the itch, whereof thou canst not be healed.
28 The Lord shall smite thee with madness, and blindness, and astonishment of heart:
29 And thou shalt grope at noonday, as the blind gropeth in darkness, and thou shalt not prosper in thy ways: and thou shalt be only oppressed and spoiled evermore, and no man shall save thee.
30 Thou shalt betroth a wife, and another man shall lie with her: thou shalt build an house, and thou shalt not dwell therein: thou shalt plant a vineyard, and shalt not gather the grapes thereof.
31 Thine ox shall be slain before thine eyes, and thou shalt not eat thereof: thine ass shall be violently taken away from before thy face, and shall not be restored to thee: thy sheep shall be given unto thine enemies, and thou shalt have none to rescue them.
32 Thy sons and thy daughters shall be given unto another people, and thine eyes shall look, and fail with longing for them all the day long: and there shall be no might in thine hand.
33 The fruit of thy land, and all thy labours, shall a nation which thou knowest not eat up; and thou shalt be only oppressed and crushed alway:
34 So that thou shalt be mad for the sight of thine eyes which thou shalt see.
35 The Lord shall smite thee in the knees, and in the legs, with a sore botch that cannot be healed, from the sole of thy foot unto the top of thy head.
36 The Lord shall bring thee, and thy king which thou shalt set over thee, unto a nation which neither thou nor thy fathers have known; and there shalt thou serve other gods, wood and stone.
37 And thou shalt become an astonishment, a proverb, and a byword, among all nations whither the Lord shall lead thee.
38 Thou shalt carry much seed out into the field, and shalt gather but little in; for the locust shall consume it.
39 Thou shalt plant vineyards, and dress them, but shalt neither drink of the wine, nor gather the grapes; for the worms shall eat them.
40 Thou shalt have olive trees throughout all thy coasts, but thou shalt not anoint thyself with the oil; for thine olive shall cast his fruit.
41 Thou shalt beget sons and daughters, but thou shalt not enjoy them; for they shall go into captivity.
42 All thy trees and fruit of thy land shall the locust consume.
43 The stranger that is within thee shall get up above thee very high; and thou shalt come down very low.
44 He shall lend to thee, and thou shalt not lend to him: he shall be the head, and thou shalt be the tail.
45 Moreover all these curses shall come upon thee, and shall pursue thee, and overtake thee, till thou be destroyed; because thou hearkenedst not unto the voice of the Lord thy God, to keep his commandments and his statutes which he commanded thee:
46 And they shall be upon thee for a sign and for a wonder, and upon thy seed for ever.
47 Because thou servedst not the Lord thy God with joyfulness, and with gladness of heart, for the abundance of all things;
48 Therefore shalt thou serve thine enemies which the Lord shall send against thee, in hunger, and in thirst, and in nakedness, and in want of all things: and he shall put a yoke of iron upon thy neck, until he have destroyed thee.
49 The Lord shall bring a nation against thee from far, from the end of the earth, as swift as the eagle flieth; a nation whose tongue thou shalt not understand;
50 A nation of fierce countenance, which shall not regard the person of the old, nor shew favour to the young:
51 And he shall eat the fruit of thy cattle, and the fruit of thy land, until thou be destroyed: which also shall not leave thee either corn, wine, or oil, or the increase of thy kine, or flocks of thy sheep, until he have destroyed thee.
52 And he shall besiege thee in all thy gates, until thy high and fenced walls come down, wherein thou trustedst, throughout all thy land: and he shall besiege thee in all thy gates throughout all thy land, which the Lord thy God hath given thee.
53 And thou shalt eat the fruit of thine own body, the flesh of thy sons and of thy daughters, which the Lord thy God hath given thee, in the siege, and in the straitness, wherewith thine enemies shall distress thee:
54 So that the man that is tender among you, and very delicate, his eye shall be evil toward his brother, and toward the wife of his bosom, and toward the remnant of his children which he shall leave:
55 So that he will not give to any of them of the flesh of his children whom he shall eat: because he hath nothing left him in the siege, and in the straitness, wherewith thine enemies shall distress thee in all thy gates.
56 The tender and delicate woman among you, which would not adventure to set the sole of her foot upon the ground for delicateness and tenderness, her eye shall be evil toward the husband of her bosom, and toward her son, and toward her daughter,
57 And toward her young one that cometh out from between her feet, and toward her children which she shall bear: for she shall eat them for want of all things secretly in the siege and straitness, wherewith thine enemy shall distress thee in thy gates.
58 If thou wilt not observe to do all the words of this law that are written in this book, that thou mayest fear this glorious and fearful name, THE LORD THY GOD;
59 Then the Lord will make thy plagues wonderful, and the plagues of thy seed, even great plagues, and of long continuance, and sore sicknesses, and of long continuance.
60 Moreover he will bring upon thee all the diseases of Egypt, which thou wast afraid of; and they shall cleave unto thee.
61 Also every sickness, and every plague, which is not written in the book of this law, them will the Lord bring upon thee, until thou be destroyed.
62 And ye shall be left few in number, whereas ye were as the stars of heaven for multitude; because thou wouldest not obey the voice of the Lord thy God.
63 And it shall come to pass, that as the Lord rejoiced over you to do you good, and to multiply you; so the Lord will rejoice over you to destroy you, and to bring you to nought; and ye shall be plucked from off the land whither thou goest to possess it.
64 And the Lord shall scatter thee among all people, from the one end of the earth even unto the other; and there thou shalt serve other gods, which neither thou nor thy fathers have known, even wood and stone.
65 And among these nations shalt thou find no ease, neither shall the sole of thy foot have rest: but the Lord shall give thee there a trembling heart, and failing of eyes, and sorrow of mind:
66 And thy life shall hang in doubt before thee; and thou shalt fear day and night, and shalt have none assurance of thy life:
67 In the morning thou shalt say, Would God it were even! and at even thou shalt say, Would God it were morning! for the fear of thine heart wherewith thou shalt fear, and for the sight of thine eyes which thou shalt see.
68 And the Lord shall bring thee into Egypt again with ships, by the way whereof I spake unto thee, Thou shalt see it no more again: and there ye shall be sold unto your enemies for bondmen and bondwomen, and no man shall buy you.

Moses even predicted in Deuteronomy that Israel would reject God as their king and ask for a king to rule over them as one of their steps to completely reject God. He also predicted what happened in Jerusalem in 70 AD when he speaks of the delicate woman whose eye would be evil towards her children because a woman ate her own baby during the Roman's siege of Jerusalem. There were also an estimated 1 million Jews enslaved after the fall of Jerusalem in AD 70 many of which couldn't even be sold because of the glut of slaves on the market.

The Israelites were fully informed as to their future if they refused to obey God, Now you know why Josiah tore his clothes and wept.

BTW, the Israelites were instructed by Moses to repeat the blessings and cursings every seventh year from mounts Ebal and Gerezim.

 

[Bob S]

You said in the quote below, "thus it was the ten commandments were to be in the hearts of the Israelites. They were not to be hidden from them nor be far away from them. They were to be in their mouths and hearts so they could obey. This is no different than the new covenant."

You can write that all day, every day, but it does not make it true. The New Covenant does not dictate the Ten Commandments as being the guide of mankind. Paul tells us that it is the Holy Spirit that is our guide. The Holy Spirit guides us to love one another as Jesus taught.

8 will not the ministry of the Spirit be even more glorious? 9 If the ministry that brought condemnation was glorious, how much more glorious is the ministry that brings righteousness! 2Cor3:

Verse 9 tells us all the Ten Commandments could do was bring condemnation. Who, in their right mind, would want to be under something that would cause them to be condemned?

 

[Gary K]

You can write that all day, every day, but it does not make it true. The New Covenant does not dictate the Ten Commandments as being the guide of mankind. Paul tells us that it is the Holy Spirit that is our guide. The Holy Spirit guides us to love one another as Jesus taught.

8 will not the ministry of the Spirit be even more glorious? 9 If the ministry that brought condemnation was glorious, how much more glorious is the ministry that brings righteousness! 2Cor3:

Verse 9 tells us all the Ten Commandments could do was bring condemnation. Who, in their right mind, would want to be under something that would cause them to be condemned?

HIM didn't say it. Scripture does. Rake it up with God is you have a problem with it,.

 

[BNR32FAN]

For a number of people there seems to be some confusion as to why they should observe the Sabbath. Aside from the fact that its part of the Ten Commandment covenant in which the command itself says we are to "Remember the Sabbath day"; Aside from the fact that the Sabbath provides all humans with a day of physical rest; Aside from the fact that each Sabbath is to be observed in honor of Jesus creating the heavens and the Earth; Aside from the fact that God says we're to call the Sabbath a delight; Aside from the fact that Jesus said that the Sabbath was "made for human beings"; Aside from the fact that Jesus, the apostles, Paul and Gentiles all observed the Sabbath; I guess there's really no reason at all ::shrugs::

But let's set all of that aside and consider what Jesus says about salvation:

Matthew 5:27-30​

“You have heard that it was said to those of old, ‘You shall not commit adultery.' But I say to you that whoever looks at a woman to lust for her has already committed adultery with her in his heart. If your right eye causes you to sin, pluck it out and cast it from you; for it is more profitable for you that one of your members perish, than for your whole body to be cast into hell. And if your right hand causes you to sin, cut it off and cast it from you; for it is more profitable for you that one of your members perish, than for your whole body to be cast into hell.​

• Jesus quotes from the Ten Commandment covenant: "You shall not commit adultery."
• Jesus magnifies the law and equates adultery with looking lustfully at a woman.
• Jesus says it is better to pluck out your eye rather than to be guilty of adultery.
• Jesus says it is better to lose one part of your body than for your whole body to be thrown into hell. (Translation: LOSS OF SALVATION)

The act of adultery (or murder, or theft, or +7) is not what denies salvation. It merely reveals your lack of love for the One you claim to love. God says, "Those that honor Me, I will honor." Do you know where that quote is found in the Bible? Go look it up sometime. It's very enlightening.

So, what do you think? According to Jesus, is there any correlation between what you do and your salvation?

For those of you who are inclined to reject, deny or abolish the words of Jesus I suggest you take the following text into account:

Mark 8:38​

If anyone is ashamed of me and my words in this adulterous and sinful generation, the Son of Man will be ashamed of them when he comes in his Father’s glory with the holy angels.”​

And also these verses:

Luke 6:46-49​

“Why do you call me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ and do not do what I say? As for everyone who comes to me and hears my words and puts them into practice, I will show you what they are like. They are like a man building a house, who dug down deep and laid the foundation on rock. When a flood came, the torrent struck that house but could not shake it, because it was well built. But the one who hears my words and does not put them into practice is like a man who built a house on the ground without a foundation. The moment the torrent struck that house, it collapsed and its destruction was complete.”​

And this passage:

John 12:47-50​

“If anyone hears my words but does not keep them, I do not judge that person. For I did not come to judge the world, but to save the world. There is a judge for the one who rejects me and does not accept my words; the very words I have spoken will condemn them at the last day. For I did not speak on my own, but the Father who sent me commanded me to say all that I have spoken. I know that his command leads to eternal life. So whatever I say is just what the Father has told me to say.”​

But maybe you think that Paul will go easier on your belief? Let's see:

1 Corinthians 6:9-11 ​

Don’t you realize that those who do wrong will not inherit the Kingdom of God? [Note that here Paul equates doing wrong with loss of salvation.]Don’t fool yourselves. Those who indulge in sexual sin, or who worship idols, or commit adultery, [Look at that! One of the Ten Commandments! And if Paul mentions one, of necessity he includes all ten.] or are male prostitutes, or practice homosexuality, or are thieves, or greedy people, or drunkards, or are abusive, or cheat people—none of these will inherit the Kingdom of God. Some of you were once like that. But you were cleansed; you were made holy; you were made right with God by calling on the name of the Lord Jesus Christ and by the Spirit of our God.​

Do you suppose Paul is a works-oriented legalist? Probably not, but could it be that if you've ever used that legalist term against someone I'm surmising you probably weren't applying it consistently. If you were I'd bet that Paul wouldn't pass your muster.

Again, works don't earn our salvation--works merely validate our claim that we love Jesus.

Paul says, "Examine yourselves to see whether you are in the faith; test yourselves. Do you not realize that Christ Jesus is in you—unless, of course, you fail the test?" Your works reveal whether your faith is real.

James very succinctly explains that faith without works is dead (James 2:14-26). If you claim you love Jesus, yet don't do what He says, then your faith is dead.

John 14:15-21 records Jesus saying the following:

“If you love me, keep my commands. And I will ask the Father, and he will give you another advocate to help you and be with you forever—the Spirit of truth. The world cannot accept him, because it neither sees him nor knows him. But you know him, for he lives with you and will be in you. I will not leave you as orphans; I will come to you. Before long, the world will not see me anymore, but you will see me. Because I live, you also will live. On that day you will realize that I am in my Father, and you are in me, and I am in you. Whoever has my commands and keeps them is the one who loves me. The one who loves me will be loved by my Father, and I too will love them and show myself to them.”​

Conversely, what about those who do not love Jesus? In verse 24 Jesus says, "Anyone who doesn't love me will not obey me."

It's amazing how many of the critics of Adventism have attempted to redact all of the commands of Jesus down to two commands which apparently they believe are open to interpretation. Love for your neighbor is not nebulous and left undefined. Jesus provided explicit commands in His Ten Commandment covenant which define how we are to love our neighbor. The covenant/agreement was canceled, but it was canceled based on the failure of the people to keep their end of the agreement. What they agreed to (ie. the law) was obviously not the problem. "God found fault with the people," not with His perfect law.

• Since most critics believe there is no law then they have no need to "stop sinning," as Jesus, Peter, John and Paul all admonish Christians;
• Since formers have no law to identify sin, then they are sinless;
• Since they are "sinless," they have no need for grace;
• Since they have no need for grace, then they have no need for forgiveness;
• Since they have no need for forgiveness, then they have no need for a Savior;
• Since they have no need for a Savior, then they have no need for Jesus;
• If they have no need for Jesus, then we see who's truly in a cult. A religion without Jesus is empty and devoid of any eternal value.

Let's review what we've learned today:

• We've established that Jesus says to cut out your eye rather than to look at a woman lustfully and go to hell. / SALVATIONAL
• We've established that Jesus says to cut off your hand and throw it away rather than to go to hell. / SALVATIONAL
• We've established that Paul says if you worship idols you "WILL NOT inherit the Kingdom of God" / SALVATIONAL
• We've established that Paul says if you commit adultery you "WILL NOT inherit the Kingdom of God" / SALVATIONAL
• We've established that Paul says if you steal you "WILL NOT inherit the Kingdom of God" / SALVATIONAL

For which one of these established biblical beliefs do you wish to condemn me as being a legalist?

I pray this helps.

But for the grace of God go I,cyspark

God didn’t stop giving commandments in Exodus 20. He kept on giving commandments for the next few chapters and it was a lot more than just 10. Jesus never commanded anyone to keep the Sabbath and neither did any of the NT authors. Paul made it clear in Colossians 2:16 and Romans 14 that we are not to be judged for not observing a certain day. Yes Jesus said “whoever keeps MY commandments”. Show me where Jesus commanded anyone to observe the Sabbath. If you’re going to say that Jesus gave the 10 commandments at Sinai then you’re going to have to accept that He gave all of the commandments at Sinai, not only the 10 in Exodus 20 which means that you’d have to keep all of those commandments if that’s what you’re considering to be “Jesus’ Commandments”.

 

[Gary K]

God didn’t stop giving commandments in Exodus 20. He kept on giving commandments for the next few chapters and it was a lot more than just 10. Jesus never commanded anyone to keep the Sabbath and neither did any of the NT authors. Paul made it clear in Colossians 2:16 and Romans 14 that we are not to be judged for not observing a certain day. Yes Jesus said “whoever keeps MY commandments”. Show me where Jesus commanded anyone to observe the Sabbath. If you’re going to say that Jesus gave the 10 commandments at Sinai then you’re going to have to accept that He gave all of the commandments at Sinai, not only the 10 in Exodus 20 which means that you’d have to keep all of those commandments if that’s what you’re considering to be “Jesus’ Commandments”.

Show me where Jesus or the apostles changed the Sabbath.

Constantine and the Sabbath Change
Sunday actually made very little headway as a Christian day of rest until the time of
Constantine in the fourth century. Constantine was emperor of Rome from AD 306
to 337. He was a sun worshiper during the first years of his reign.
Later, he professed conversion to Christianity, but at heart remained a devotee of
the sun. Edward Gibbon says, “The Sun was universally celebrated as the invincible
guide and protector of Constantine.”vi
Constantine created the earliest Sunday law known to history in AD 321:
On the venerable Day of the sun let the magistrates and people residing in cities rest,
and let all workshops be closed. In the country, however, persons engaged in
agriculture may freely and lawfully continue their pursuits: because it often happens
that another Day is not so suitable for grain sowing or for vine planting: lest by
neglecting the proper moment for such operations the bounty of heaven should be
lost.vii
Chamber’s Encyclopedia says this:
Unquestionably the first law, either ecclesiastical or civil, by which the Sabbatical
observance of that Day is known to have been ordained, is the edict of Constantine, 321
A.D.viii
Following this initial legislation, both emperors and Popes in succeeding centuries
added other laws to strengthen Sunday observance. What began as a pagan
ordinance ended as a Christian regulation.
Close on the heels of the Edict of Constantine followed the Catholic Church Council of
Laodicea (circa 364 AD):
Christians shall not Judaize and be idle on Saturday (Sabbath), but shall work on that
Day: but the Lord’s Day, they shall especially honour, and as being Christians, shall, if
possible, do no work on that Day. If however, they are found Judaizing, they shall be
shut out from Christ.ix

Boasts of the Roman Church about Sunday
The Catholic Church claims responsibility for the change from seventh-‐day to first-‐
day Sabbath. Here is an explanation from The Catechism of the Catholic Church
Section 2 Article 3 (1994):
Sunday – fulfillment of the Sabbath. Sunday is expressly distinguished from the
Sabbath which it follows chronologically every week; for Christians its ceremonial
observance replaces that of the Sabbath... The Sabbath, which represented the
completion of the first creation, has been replaced by Sunday which recalls the new
creation, has been replaced by Sunday which recalls the new creation inaugurated by
the Resurrection of Christ... In respecting religious liberty and the common good of all,
Christians should seek recognition of Sundays and the Church’s holy days as legal
holidays.
And here are various Catholic sources claiming the change was the doing of the
Roman Catholic Church:
Cardinal James Gibbons, The Faith of Our Fathers (Ayers Publishing, 1978):
108:
But you may read the Bible from Genesis to Revelation, and you will not find a single
line authorizing the sanctification of Sunday. The Scriptures enforce the religious
observance of Saturday, a day which we never sanctify.
The Convert's Catechism of Catholic Doctrine (1957): 50:
Q. Which is the Sabbath day? A. Saturday is the Sabbath day. Q. Why Do we observe
Sunday instead of Saturday? A. We observe Sunday instead of Saturday because the
Catholic Church transferred the solemnity from Saturday to Sunday.
Chancellor Albert Smith for Cardinal of Baltimore Archdiocese, letter dated
February 10, 1920:
If Protestants would follow the Bible, they should worship God on the Sabbath day by
God is Saturday. In keeping the Sunday, they are following a law of the Catholic
Church

Stephen Keenan, Catholic—Doctrinal Catechism 3rd Edition: 174:
Question: Have you any other way of proving the Church has power to institute
festivals of precept?
Answer: Had she not such power, she could not have done that in which all modern
religionists agree with her, she could not have substituted the observance of Sunday
the 1st day of the week, for the observance of Saturday the 7th day, a change for which
there is no Scriptural authority.x

Our Sunday Visitor (February 5, 1950):
Practically everything Protestants regard as essential or important they have received
from the Catholic Church... The Protestant mind does not seem to realize that in
accepting the Bible and observing the Sunday, in keeping Christmas and Easter, they
are accepting the authority of the spokesman for the church, the Pope.
Louis Gaston Segur, Plain Talk about the Protestantism of To Day (London:
Thomas Richardson and Son, 1874): 213:
Thus the observance of Sunday by the Protestants is a homage they pay, in spite of
themselves, to the authority of the (Catholic) Church.

The Catholic Mirror (September 23, 1893):
The Catholic Church, for over 1000 years before the existence of a protestant, by virtue
of her divine mission, changed the day from Saturday to Sunday... Reason and
common sense demand the acceptance of one or the other of these alternatives: either
Protestantism and the keeping holy of Saturday, or Catholicity and the keeping holy of
Sunday. Compromise is impossible.
Sunday is therefore to this day the acknowledged offspring of the Catholic Church as
spouse of the Holy Ghost, without a word of remonstrance from the Protestant world.
But the Protestant says: How can I receive the teachings of an apostate Church? How,
we ask, have you managed to receive her teachings all your life, in direct opposition to
your recognized teacher, the Bible, on the Sabbath question. ...those who follow the
Bible as their guide, the Israelites and the Seventh day Adventists have the exclusive
weight of evidence on their side, whilst the Biblical Protestant has not a word in self
defence for the substitution of Sunday for Saturday.
The Adventists are the only body of Christians with the Bible as their teacher, who can
find no warrant in its pages for the change of day from the seventh to the first. Hence
their appellation, “Seventh day Adventists.

http://pdf.amazingdiscoveries.org/Section%20PDFs/Changing%20the%20Sabbath.pdf

 

[Icyspark]

Since this thread came back to the front page I was rereading some of the initial comments. I thought this comment in particular was entertaining in light of what you said on another thread:

1. There were absolutely no absolution for breaking a law dealing with morality. Throughout the Old Testament people were excused when breaking the Sabbath which was a ritual law. Man is born with a sense of right and wrong. Man has never been born with the desire to keep a day Holy. Keeping days has to be taught.

Hi spark, It seems like there is an exception to any rule and of course, you would find one.

Hi Bob S,

Have you ever seen the movie, "The Princess Bride"? If you have then maybe you're familiar with the part where Inigo Montoya responds to Vizzini's use of the word, "Inconceivable!" by saying, "You keep using that word. I do not think it means what you think it means."

You use this word, "ABSOLUTELY," but I do not think it means what you think it means. How can you attempt to correct the beliefs of others when you cannot even maintain consistency or coherence with your own words?

I just illustrated—using your own, self-imposed, extra biblical "logic"—that your attempt to reframe the Sabbath as "ritual law" fails even your manufactured test. You said, "There were ABSOLUTELY no absolution for breaking a law dealing with morality." Now that this false teaching has been exposed, wouldn't a true Christian own up to it as a mistake and seek forgiveness from the those who had the misfortune of having read it? But that isn't what happened here. Instead of repenting, you just attempted to sweep your now exposed false teaching aside and quickly replace it with some new nonsense (I'll try to address that nonsense later. But realisitically, you've been on these discussion forums long enough to know that the Bible doesn't say what you're attempting to force it to say).

In Romans 8:38 Paul says, "I am absolutely sure that not even death or life can separate us from God’s love. Not even angels or demons, the present or the future, or any powers can separate us."

You present things in absolutes, yet when exposed to biblical facts which contradict your absolutist mindset you are not humble in acknowledging the correction received.

Proverbs 12:15​

The way of fools seems right to them, but the wise listen to advice.​

Do you consider yourself wise? Are you willing to listen to advice. Don't reject what I say because I correct what you say.

I pray this helps.

But for the grace of God go I,cyspark

 

[Gary K]

I'd like to point out Nebuchadnezzar's image of gold on the plains of Dura and the actions of Shadrach, Meshach, and Abendego. Everyone was supposed to bow down and worship the image at the sound of music which is clearly breaking the 2nd commandment. The three Hebrew's response?

Daniel 3: 12 There are certain Jews whom thou hast set over the affairs of the province of Babylon, Shadrach, Meshach, and Abed-nego; these men, O king, have not regarded thee: they serve not thy gods, nor worship the golden image which thou hast set up.
13 ¶ Then Nebuchadnezzar in his rage and fury commanded to bring Shadrach, Meshach, and Abed-nego. Then they brought these men before the king.
14 Nebuchadnezzar spake and said unto them, Is it true, O Shadrach, Meshach, and Abed-nego, do not ye serve my gods, nor worship the golden image which I have set up?
15 Now if ye be ready that at what time ye hear the sound of the cornet, flute, harp, sackbut, psaltery, and dulcimer, and all kinds of musick, ye fall down and worship the image which I have made; well: but if ye worship not, ye shall be cast the same hour into the midst of a burning fiery furnace; and who is that God that shall deliver you out of my hands?
16 Shadrach, Meshach, and Abed-nego, answered and said to the king, O Nebuchadnezzar, we are not careful to answer thee in this matter.
17 If it be so, our God whom we serve is able to deliver us from the burning fiery furnace, and he will deliver us out of thine hand, O king.
18 But if not, be it known unto thee, O king, that we will not serve thy gods, nor worship the golden image which thou hast set up.
19 ¶ Then was Nebuchadnezzar full of fury, and the form of his visage was changed against Shadrach, Meshach, and Abed-nego: therefore he spake, and commanded that they should heat the furnace one seven times more than it was wont to be heated.
20 And he commanded the most mighty men that were in his army to bind Shadrach, Meshach, and Abed-nego, and to cast them into the burning fiery furnace.
21 Then these men were bound in their coats, their hosen, and their hats, and their other garments, and were cast into the midst of the burning fiery furnace.
22 Therefore because the king’s commandment was urgent, and the furnace exceeding hot, the flame of the fire slew those men that took up Shadrach, Meshach, and Abed-nego.
23 And these three men, Shadrach, Meshach, and Abed-nego, fell down bound into the midst of the burning fiery furnace.
24 Then Nebuchadnezzar the king was astonied, and rose up in haste, and spake, and said unto his counsellers, Did not we cast three men bound into the midst of the fire? They answered and said unto the king, True, O king.
25 He answered and said, Lo, I see four men loose, walking in the midst of the fire, and they have no hurt; and the form of the fourth is like the Son of God.

So, does God honor faithfulness in His servants? Yes. When we trust Him He honors our obedience. He did the same thing with Daniel in the lion's den.

 

[Icyspark]

God didn’t stop giving commandments in Exodus 20. He kept on giving commandments for the next few chapters and it was a lot more than just 10. Jesus never commanded anyone to keep the Sabbath and neither did any of the NT authors. Paul made it clear in Colossians 2:16 and Romans 14 that we are not to be judged for not observing a certain day. Yes Jesus said “whoever keeps MY commandments”. Show me where Jesus commanded anyone to observe the Sabbath. If you’re going to say that Jesus gave the 10 commandments at Sinai then you’re going to have to accept that He gave all of the commandments at Sinai, not only the 10 in Exodus 20 which means that you’d have to keep all of those commandments if that’s what you’re considering to be “Jesus’ Commandments”.

Hi BNR32FAN,

Deuteronomy 4:13​

He declared to you his covenant, the Ten Commandments, which he commanded you to follow and then wrote them on two stone tablets.​

Let's start with a question. How many commandments are in the Ten Commandment covenant?

Deuteronomy 5:22​

These are the commandments the Lord proclaimed in a loud voice to your whole assembly there on the mountain from out of the fire, the cloud and the deep darkness; and he added nothing more. Then he wrote them on two stone tablets and gave them to me.​

The above account of the giving of the Ten Commandments in Deuteronomy is the same instance as recorded in Exodus 20. The Ten Commandment covenant was concluded and God "added nothing more" to it. Could that be why there's a numeral attached to it?

But then, after this line of demarcation (of adding nothing more), you're correct. A lot more requirements, decrees and laws were added. These are separate from the numbered list of commandments written by God's own finger on tablets of stone. These requirements, decrees and laws were written by Moses on paper and God directed this "book of the law" to be kept separate from the Ten Commandments. The rocks were in the box. The book was in a nook.

Jesus certainly gave all the commandments at Sinai. That's absolutely true (and that's not "absolutely" in the ambiguous, indefinite sense which Bob S uses the word ).

I pray this helps.

But for the grace of God go I,cyspark

 

[Icyspark]

If you remember God told the Israelites to remain in their dwellings on the Sabbath. [This is commonly known as taking a text out of context and making it into a pretext.] Are you able to locate where God released them from that rule? There isn't any indication any other person was even stoned for breaking those rules. That also indicates that just picking up sticks was not the true reason he was stoned. [Are you "absolutely" sure about this? ] It had to have been his defiant heart which would have been his scorn of God.

Hi Bob S,

You should know this by now.

This is why making random comments without looking at the passage you're referring to isn't helpful to you or to anyone who reads your posts. So, let's take a look at the passage to which you are alluding and see if it has anything remotely to do with what you are imposing on it.

Exodus 16:11-30​

11 Then the Lord said to Moses, 12 “I have heard the Israelites’ complaints. Now tell them, ‘In the evening you will have meat to eat, and in the morning you will have all the bread you want. Then you will know that I am the Lord your God.’”​

​

13 That evening vast numbers of quail flew in and covered the camp. And the next morning the area around the camp was wet with dew. 14 When the dew evaporated, a flaky substance as fine as frost blanketed the ground. 15 The Israelites were puzzled when they saw it. “What is it?” they asked each other. They had no idea what it was.​

​

And Moses told them, “It is the food the Lord has given you to eat. 16 These are the Lord’s instructions: Each household should gather as much as it needs. Pick up two quarts for each person in your tent.”​

​

17 So the people of Israel did as they were told. Some gathered a lot, some only a little. 18 But when they measured it out, everyone had just enough. Those who gathered a lot had nothing left over, and those who gathered only a little had enough. Each family had just what it needed.​

​

19 Then Moses told them, “Do not keep any of it until morning.” 20 But some of them didn’t listen and kept some of it until morning. But by then it was full of maggots and had a terrible smell. Moses was very angry with them.​

​

21 After this the people gathered the food morning by morning, each family according to its need. And as the sun became hot, the flakes they had not picked up melted and disappeared. 22 On the sixth day, they gathered twice as much as usual—four quarts for each person instead of two. Then all the leaders of the community came and asked Moses for an explanation. 23 He told them, “This is what the Lord commanded: Tomorrow will be a day of complete rest, a holy Sabbath day set apart for the Lord. So bake or boil as much as you want today, and set aside what is left for tomorrow.”​

​

24 So they put some aside until morning, just as Moses had commanded. And in the morning the leftover food was wholesome and good, without maggots or odor. 25 Moses said, “Eat this food today, for today is a Sabbath day dedicated to the Lord. There will be no food on the ground today. 26 You may gather the food for six days, but the seventh day is the Sabbath. There will be no food on the ground that day.”​

​

27 Some of the people went out anyway on the seventh day, but they found no food. 28 The Lord asked Moses, “How long will these people refuse to obey my commands and instructions? 29 They must realize that the Sabbath is the Lord’s gift to you. That is why he gives you a two-day supply on the sixth day, so there will be enough for two days. On the Sabbath day you must each stay in your place. Do not go out to pick up food on the seventh day.” 30 So the people did not gather any food on the seventh day.​

This is a thing known as context. The context of "stay in your place" has to do with the premise of going out to collect manna on the seventh day. The people were not to "go out to pick up food." Context. Context. Context. They were not to "gather any food." Context.

So your question about them being "released from this rule" is non sequitur as it has nothing to do with how you are misusing it.

For the sake of argument, let's see what happens if we assume your premise is valid. Do you suppose that none of the vast population in the Israelite camp were allowed to leave their tents to go to the restroom? What about all the people who found the man who was out collecting wood? How did these people know the man was out gathering wood? How did all these people bring the stick collector to Moses?

Numbers 15:32-36​

32 While the Israelites were in the wilderness, a man was found gathering wood on the Sabbath day. 33 Those who found him gathering wood brought him to Moses and Aaron and the whole assembly, 34 and they kept him in custody, because it was not clear what should be done to him. 35 Then the Lord said to Moses, “The man must die. The whole assembly must stone him outside the camp.” 36 So the assembly took him outside the camp and stoned him to death,as the Lord commanded Moses.​

I pray this helps.

But for the grace of God go I,cyspark

 

[Leaf473]

Hi BNR32FAN,

Deuteronomy 4:13​

He declared to you his covenant, the Ten Commandments, which he commanded you to follow and then wrote them on two stone tablets.​

Let's start with a question. How many commandments are in the Ten Commandment covenant?

Deuteronomy 5:22​

These are the commandments the Lord proclaimed in a loud voice to your whole assembly there on the mountain from out of the fire, the cloud and the deep darkness; and he added nothing more. Then he wrote them on two stone tablets and gave them to me.​

The above account of the giving of the Ten Commandments in Deuteronomy is the same instance as recorded in Exodus 20. The Ten Commandment covenant was concluded and God "added nothing more" to it. Could that be why there's a numeral attached to it?

But then, after this line of demarcation (of adding nothing more), you're correct. A lot more requirements, decrees and laws were added.

Hi, Cy!

Are you taking that to mean that God added no more commandments?

Or just that God added no more to the 10? Possibly he added more commandments, which could even be more important than the 10, but he did not add them to the 10?

This passage is talked about a lot, is it referring to just the 10?

Bible Gateway passage: Revelation 12:17 - New American Standard Bible

So the dragon was enraged with the woman, and went off to make war with the rest of her children, who keep the commandments of God and hold to the testimony of Jesus.

www.biblegateway.com

These are separate from the numbered list of commandments written by God's own finger on tablets of stone. These requirements, decrees and laws were written by Moses on paper and God directed this "book of the law" to be kept separate from the Ten Commandments. The rocks were in the box. The book was in a nook.

Jesus certainly gave all the commandments at Sinai. That's absolutely true (and that's not "absolutely" in the ambiguous, indefinite sense which Bob S uses the word ).

I pray this helps.

But for the grace of God go I,cyspark

 

[Bob S]

Hi Bob S,

You should know this by now.

This is why making random comments without looking at the passage you're referring to isn't helpful to you or to anyone who reads your posts. So, let's take a look at the passage to which you are alluding and see if it has anything remotely to do with what you are imposing on it.

Kinda reminds me of your answer to 2Cor3:6-11 where Paul in verse 7 (Now if the ministry that brought death, which was engraved in letters on stone, came with glory, so that the Israelites could not look steadily at the face of Moses because of its glory, transitory though it was,) was referring to Joshua 8:30 Then Joshua built on Mount Ebal an altar to the Lord, the God of Israel, 31 as Moses the servant of the Lord had commanded the Israelites. He built it according to what is written in the Book of the Law of Moses—an altar of uncut stones, on which no iron tool had been used. On it they offered to the Lord burnt offerings and sacrificed fellowship offerings. 32 There, in the presence of the Israelites, Joshua wrote on stones a copy of the law of Moses. Of course, that was an untrue answer that you never offered an apology.

Exodus 16:11-30​

11 Then the Lord said to Moses, 12 “I have heard the Israelites’ complaints. Now tell them, ‘In the evening you will have meat to eat, and in the morning you will have all the bread you want. Then you will know that I am the Lord your God.’”​

​

13 That evening vast numbers of quail flew in and covered the camp. And the next morning the area around the camp was wet with dew. 14 When the dew evaporated, a flaky substance as fine as frost blanketed the ground. 15 The Israelites were puzzled when they saw it. “What is it?” they asked each other. They had no idea what it was.​

​

And Moses told them, “It is the food the Lord has given you to eat. 16 These are the Lord’s instructions: Each household should gather as much as it needs. Pick up two quarts for each person in your tent.”​

​

17 So the people of Israel did as they were told. Some gathered a lot, some only a little. 18 But when they measured it out, everyone had just enough. Those who gathered a lot had nothing left over, and those who gathered only a little had enough. Each family had just what it needed.​

​

19 Then Moses told them, “Do not keep any of it until morning.” 20 But some of them didn’t listen and kept some of it until morning. But by then it was full of maggots and had a terrible smell. Moses was very angry with them.​

​

21 After this the people gathered the food morning by morning, each family according to its need. And as the sun became hot, the flakes they had not picked up melted and disappeared. 22 On the sixth day, they gathered twice as much as usual—four quarts for each person instead of two. Then all the leaders of the community came and asked Moses for an explanation. 23 He told them, “This is what the Lord commanded: Tomorrow will be a day of complete rest, a holy Sabbath day set apart for the Lord. So bake or boil as much as you want today, and set aside what is left for tomorrow.”​

​

24 So they put some aside until morning, just as Moses had commanded. And in the morning the leftover food was wholesome and good, without maggots or odor. 25 Moses said, “Eat this food today, for today is a Sabbath day dedicated to the Lord. There will be no food on the ground today. 26 You may gather the food for six days, but the seventh day is the Sabbath. There will be no food on the ground that day.”​

​

27 Some of the people went out anyway on the seventh day, but they found no food. 28 The Lord asked Moses, “How long will these people refuse to obey my commands and instructions? 29 They must realize that the Sabbath is the Lord’s gift to you. That is why he gives you a two-day supply on the sixth day, so there will be enough for two days. On the Sabbath day you must each stay in your place. Do not go out to pick up food on the seventh day.” 30 So the people did not gather any food on the seventh day.​

This is a thing known as context. The context of "stay in your place" has to do with the premise of going out to collect manna on the seventh day. The people were not to "go out to pick up food." Context. Context. Context. They were not to "gather any food." Context.

So your question about them being "released from this rule" is non sequitur as it has nothing to do with how you are misusing it.

That is nothing but a bunch of bologna spark. They were to remain in their dwellings on the Sabbath period. They were not to go out looking for something that was not there in the first place.

For the sake of argument, let's see what happens if we assume your premise is valid. Do you suppose that none of the vast population in the Israelite camp were allowed to leave their tents to go to the restroom? What about all the people who found the man who was out collecting wood? How did these people know the man was out gathering wood? How did all these people bring the stick collector to Moses?

That is relatively easy to answer spark. At some point God allowed them to leave their dwellings as we all know. Some things are left untold. I assume they had chamber pots or maybe they were allowed to go out to the privy. Maybe they just had a corner dedicated as a potty. My point is valid, yours is just an argument to try to belittle.

Numbers 15:32-36​

32 While the Israelites were in the wilderness, a man was found gathering wood on the Sabbath day. 33 Those who found him gathering wood brought him to Moses and Aaron and the whole assembly, 34 and they kept him in custody, because it was not clear what should be done to him. 35 Then the Lord said to Moses, “The man must die. The whole assembly must stone him outside the camp.” 36 So the assembly took him outside the camp and stoned him to death,as the Lord commanded Moses.​

The prior verses explain sins of ignorance and sins of presumption. You cast doubt on my reason the man was stoned for picking up sticks. Had it been out of ignorance he would not have been stoned. I suggest studying before your fingers hit the keyboard criticizing what others write.

 

[Gary K]

Hi, Cy!

Are you taking that to mean that God added no more commandments?

Or just that God added no more to the 10? Possibly he added more commandments, which could even be more important than the 10, but he did not add them to the 10?

This passage is talked about a lot, is it referring to just the 10?

Bible Gateway passage: Revelation 12:17 - New American Standard Bible

So the dragon was enraged with the woman, and went off to make war with the rest of her children, who keep the commandments of God and hold to the testimony of Jesus.

www.biblegateway.com

1Corinthians 1: 1 PAUL, called to be an apostle of Jesus Christ through the will of God, and Sosthenes our brother,
2 Unto the church of God which is at Corinth, to them that are sanctified in Christ Jesus, called to be saints, with all that in every place call upon the name of Jesus Christ our Lord, both theirs and ours:
3 Grace be unto you, and peace, from God our Father, and from the Lord Jesus Christ.
4 I thank my God always on your behalf, for the grace of God which is given you by Jesus Christ;
5 That in every thing ye are enriched by him, in all utterance, and in all knowledge;
6 Even as the testimony of Christ was confirmed in you:

As Jesus gave the law from Sinai Moses can tell us about His testimony.

Exodus 25: 21 And thou shalt put the mercy seat above upon the ark; and in the ark thou shalt put the testimony that I shall give thee.
22 And there I will meet with thee, and I will commune with thee from above the mercy seat, from between the two cherubims which are upon the ark of the testimony, of all things which I will give thee in commandment unto the children of Israel.

 

[Leaf473]

1Corinthians 1: 1 PAUL, called to be an apostle of Jesus Christ through the will of God, and Sosthenes our brother,
2 Unto the church of God which is at Corinth, to them that are sanctified in Christ Jesus, called to be saints, with all that in every place call upon the name of Jesus Christ our Lord, both theirs and ours:
3 Grace be unto you, and peace, from God our Father, and from the Lord Jesus Christ.
4 I thank my God always on your behalf, for the grace of God which is given you by Jesus Christ;
5 That in every thing ye are enriched by him, in all utterance, and in all knowledge;
6 Even as the testimony of Christ was confirmed in you:

As Jesus gave the law from Sinai Moses can tell us about His testimony.

Exodus 25: 21 And thou shalt put the mercy seat above upon the ark; and in the ark thou shalt put the testimony that I shall give thee.
22 And there I will meet with thee, and I will commune with thee from above the mercy seat, from between the two cherubims which are upon the ark of the testimony, of all things which I will give thee in commandment unto the children of Israel.

The part from later on in 1 Corinthians 1 came to my mind

Bible Gateway passage: 1 Corinthians 1:10-11 - New International Reader's Version

Taking Sides in the Church - Brothers and sisters, I make my appeal to you. I do this in the name of our Lord Jesus Christ. I ask that all of you agree with one another in what you say. I ask that you don’t take sides. I ask that you are in complete agreement in all that you think. My brothers...

www.biblegateway.com

 

[HIM]

Paul also told the Jews that the ministry of death, the ten commandments, have been done away. Read it for yourself. 2Cor 3:6-11

You and @Danthemailman errors have been shown already in respect to these verses. What is it you don't get still?
Just posting verses without an explanation doesn't prove your case btw.

8 will not the ministry of the Spirit be even more glorious? 9 If the ministry that brought condemnation was glorious, how much more glorious is the ministry that brings righteousness! 2Cor3:

Verse 9 tells us all the Ten Commandments could do was bring condemnation. Who, in their right mind, would want to be under something that would cause them to be condemned?

Who said anything about just ten? Please reread that post. Scripture reveals more than that.

Condemnation is because of the venue to which the ten commandments and the written word were delivered on. Which are the revealed word of God Paul said he doesn't corrupt. Paul said through the Spirit his words are not that which corrupt the Word of God. Therefore The Venue has changed not the words. To change the words would corrupt the word of God as it is revealed.

2Cor 2:17 For we are not as many, which corrupt the word of God: but as of sincerity, but as of God, in the sight of God speak we in Christ.

2 Corinthians Verse 3:3 tells us we are the epistles of Christ ministered by the Spirit. Written, not with ink or even engraved in stone. But epistles made by the Spirit of the living God writing in the fleshly tables of our hearts.
We the Epistles of Christ were ministered by the Spirit which made us abled ministers of the New Covenant, whose sufficiency is of God and not of ourselves.

So what was written in the fleshly tables of our hearts? Or what is of the Spirit that has made us the epistles of Christ? Abled bodied ministers whose sufficiency is not of ourselves, but of God's Spirit? Why has God given us His Spirit?

As to why Ezekiel through God is pretty clear. He says that we will have God's Spirit to walk in God's statutes and keep, guard His ordinances and judgments. So where we walking? If not in the statutes for which the Spirit was given, then what spirit do we have?

Ezek 11:19 And I will give them one heart, and I will put a new spirit within you; and I will take the stony heart out of their flesh, and will give them an heart of flesh:
Ezek 11:20 That they may walk in my statutes, and keep mine ordinances, and do them: and they shall be my people, and I will be their God.

Ezek 36:27 And I will put my spirit within you, and cause you to walk in my statutes, and ye shall keep my judgments, and do them.


We know that there are two spirits in this world that govern the hearts of men. David through God said the Spirit of our Lord and God will make His words known unto us. So what if what we think we know in respect to His word doesn't align but contradicts with what has already been revealed? Like was seen in Ezekiel. We are given God's Spirit to walk in His Statutes and guard, keep His judgements and ordinances. What if we think differently? Who spirit is causing that?

Prov 1:23 Turn you at my reproof: behold, I will pour out my spirit unto you, I will make known my words unto you.

Isaiah through God speaks of a covenant to which God's Spirit is upon us, and He has put His Word in our mouths and it shall not depart. But because of most departing from which has already been revealed His Word is no longer there, their own words are.

Isa 59:21 As for me, this is my covenant with them, saith the LORD; My spirit that is upon thee, and my words which I have put in thy mouth, shall not depart out of thy mouth, nor out of the mouth of thy seed, nor out of the mouth of thy seed's seed, saith the LORD, from henceforth and for ever.

Moses through God in Deut29:1 speaks of this Covenant that Isaiah was moved to share. But in Speaking, God through him gives us more information. He says He will circumcise our hearts to Love the Lord our God that we may Live. With this circumcision, cutting away of our hearts He will put His Word in our mouths and hearts that we do it by His Voice, His Word. To which we are commanded to hearken unto. And this voice is saying that we are to keep His commandments and statutes contained in the Book of the Law. And turn unto Him in which have our do with our heart, and with all our soul. And His Voice, His Word is not in heaven or in the depths of the sea that we need send someone like Moses to get it. But as was said and confirmed by Paul in his paraphrase of these text in Romans 10:6-8. His Word, His voice is in our hearts and mouths that we do it.

However Take note in Deuteronomy 30:10. THE JUDGEMENTS are not mentioned as being that we keep in the hearkening unto His voice, His word that is in our hearts and mouths that we do them and Love Him with all our being.

Deut 29:1 These are the words of the covenant, which the LORD commanded Moses to make with the children of Israel in the land of Moab, beside the covenant which he made with them in Horeb.
Deut 30:10 If thou shalt hearken unto the voice of the LORD thy God, to keep his commandments and his statutes which are written in this book of the law, and if thou turn unto the LORD thy God with all thine heart, and with all thy soul.
Deut 30:11 For this commandment which I command thee this day, it is not hidden from thee, neither is it far off.
Deut 30:12 It is not in heaven, that thou shouldest say, Who shall go up for us to heaven, and bring it unto us, that we may hear it, and do it?
Deut 30:13 Neither is it beyond the sea, that thou shouldest say, Who shall go over the sea for us, and bring it unto us, that we may hear it, and do it?
Deut 30:14 But the word is very nigh unto thee, in thy mouth, and in thy heart, that thou mayest do it.


Deut 30:6 And the LORD thy God will circumcise thine heart, and the heart of thy seed, to love the LORD thy God with all thine heart, and with all thy soul, that thou mayest live.


So when we get to Jeremiah and His giving of the New Covenant, we should take note that in Deut 29-30 it was already given. Just in different words. And in these words we see what Law God has put in our hearts and our inward parts, minds that we need not teach our neighbor and brother to know the Lord. And that law is the Book of the Law with the statutes and commandments of our Lord and God.



The issue was and is today. Most do not accept it or keep in it. Therefore when Jeremiah speaks it through God, He states it as something in the future. In reality it was manifested in the future more so in Moses' ministry in Christ and then in His disciples through His death and resurrection. But as was said most don't believe and stay within His guidance so here we are teaching our brother.



Jer 31:31 Behold, the days come, saith the LORD, that I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel, and with the house of Judah:
Jer 31:32 Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day that I took them by the hand to bring them out of the land of Egypt; which my covenant they brake, although I was an husband unto them, saith the LORD:
Jer 31:33 But this shall be the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel; After those days, saith the LORD, I will put my law in their inward parts, and write it in their hearts; and will be their God, and they shall be my people.
Jer 31:34 And they shall teach no more every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the LORD: for they shall all know me, from the least of them unto the greatest of them, saith the LORD: for I will forgive their iniquity, and I will remember their sin no more.

You said in the quote below, "thus it was the ten commandments were to be in the hearts of the Israelites. They were not to be hidden from them nor be far away from them. They were to be in their mouths and hearts so they could obey. This is no different than the new covenant."


So it was shared to you That it is Not just the ten but the commandments and statutes contained in the Book of the Law is what the text states. And the commandment that they are instructed to keep in verse 11 is the last one given. And that my friend is hearkening unto the voice of the Lord so they can keep the commandments and statutes contained in the Book of the Law. This is what is not hidden or far off.

The voice of the Lord is not in heaven or in the depth of the see that we need to send someone after it so we have it, For His Voice, His Word is in our hearts and our mouths that we do the commandments and statutes contained in the Book of the Law. So let's hearken unto the voice of the Lord our God. For His Word, is life. Choose Life and live. That is the faith in which we preach.

That is why Paul states in His Paraphrase of these text in Romans 10:6-8 Christ rather than voice of God. For Christ is the voice, the word of God.
To which you posted as a rebuttal the quote below, ignoring what was shared here. The fact they were, we are to hearken unto the voice of the Lord our God to keep the commandments and statutes contained in the Book of the Law. That they, we do not have to send someone to heaven or the depths of the sea to get this anointing. Because the word, through the voice of the Lord our God is in our hearts that we do the keeping of His commandments and statutes contained in the Book of the Law through Christ indwelling. That is the faith in which we preach.

None of which you posted here in this quote above shows anything contrary to what was shared to you in respect to Deut 30:10-14.

However, did you notice in Deut 30:10 that the Judgements are not mentioned just the commandments and statutes in respect to us hearkening unto the voice of the Lord our God?

Or maybe the numerous moral commandments and statutes that are not in the Ten but are in the Book of the Law?

You can write that all day, every day, but it does not make it true. The New Covenant does not dictate the Ten Commandments as being the guide of mankind. Paul tells us that it is the Holy Spirit that is our guide. The Holy Spirit guides us to love one another as Jesus taught.

Please reread that post nowhere does it state that the Ten guide mankind.

 

[Gary K]

The part from later on in 1 Corinthians 1 came to my mind

Bible Gateway passage: 1 Corinthians 1:10-11 - New International Reader's Version

Taking Sides in the Church - Brothers and sisters, I make my appeal to you. I do this in the name of our Lord Jesus Christ. I ask that all of you agree with one another in what you say. I ask that you don’t take sides. I ask that you are in complete agreement in all that you think. My brothers...

www.biblegateway.com

Just exactly what does that have to do with what I demonstrated from scripture? Paul is addressing a church racked with internal dissension and tolerating sins that would make a pagan blush.

 

[Leaf473]

Just exactly what does that have to do with what I demonstrated from scripture? Paul is addressing a church racked with internal dissension and tolerating sins that would make a pagan blush.

It's from the same passage that you quoted. We want to thank God for all Christians, all people in the body of Christ, as Paul did.

We want to do what we can to reduce dissension and division.

Bible Gateway passage: 1 Corinthians 1:9 - New International Reader's Version

God is faithful. He has chosen you to share life with his Son, Jesus Christ our Lord.

www.biblegateway.com

 

[Gary K]

It's from the same passage that you quoted. We want to thank God for all Christians, all people in the body of Christ, as Paul did.

We want to do what we can to reduce dissension and division.

Bible Gateway passage: 1 Corinthians 1:9 - New International Reader's Version

God is faithful. He has chosen you to share life with his Son, Jesus Christ our Lord.

www.biblegateway.com

Dissension and division based in open sin and unbelief is a good reason for dissension. That's why the Corinthian church was being torn apart internally. Were all the good people not supposed to object to all the unbelief and open sin? Were they just supposed to go along with it?

 

[Bob S]

Bob S said:
If you remember God told the Israelites to remain in their dwellings on the Sabbath. [ This is commonly known as taking a text out of context and making it into a pretext.] Are you able to locate where God released them from that rule? There isn't any indication any other person was even stoned for breaking those rules. That also indicates that just picking up sticks was not the true reason he was stoned. [Are you "absolutely" sure about this? ] It had to have been his defiant heart which would have been his scorn of God.
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Hi spark, I would like to know who gave you the right to add to my statement?

 

[Leaf473]

Dissension and division based in open sin and unbelief is a good reason for dissension. That's why the Corinthian church was being torn apart internally. Were all the good people not supposed to object to all the unbelief and open sin? Were they just supposed to go along with it?

It looks to me like the division was caused by people dividing into camps.

Bible Gateway passage: 1 Corinthians 1:12 - New International Reader's Version

Here is what I mean. One of you says, “I follow Paul.” Another says, “I follow Apollos.” Another says, “I follow Peter.” And still another says, “I follow Christ.”

www.biblegateway.com